Boot / cold weather advice

JustBC

JustBC

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Feb 14, 2017
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#1
Let me start this by saying I've looked through a bunch of threads before posting this. My questions have not been directly answered. I appreciate your time and response.

I am a urban dwelling civilian and need some guidance on cold weather gear, especially boots.
For boots, I have been looking at Danner, Belville and Gaumont. All of them have good reviews All have a few haters. I am not really looking for brand/model recommendations, as much as general info however, if you know of *the* perfect solution for me please pipe up.
I will be deploying to Ukraine as a medic in late fall, through the winter. I need a good pair of winter boots. I expect to be cold wet and muddy. It is possible I will be spending time in trenches or other situations with cold standing water. I also expect the environment to get cold as shit.

I am inclined to get waterproof boots with Thinsulate. Waterproof offers me a tiny bit of biological substance isolation/protection.
Some boots have 400 grams of Thinsulate, some have 600. Are the extra 200 grams going to make a difference when it gets really cold or should I focus on multiple pairs of socks?

The Belvilles I am looking at are these https://www.bellevilleboot.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=182 They are insulated with 400G thinsulate and have some protection against bodily fluid contamination. They seem like they would be comfortable for walking.

There is another model that have 600 grams of Thinsulate https://www.bellevilleboot.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=176 There is a similar model, 600G with steel toes.

I need to be able to walk long distances in reasonable comfort. I am worried about the comfort of steel toed boots. Other than crush protection why would I want steel toes? is there be enough additional protection from things like toe-poppers to make the weight/discomfort worth it?

As active duty or veteran, would you feel safe deploying with soft toed boots?

For socks, is there any reason NOT to go Marino wool?

Are silk under socks worth it when it gets really cold?

I plan to get Marino wool base layers unless someone has a better suggestion

I could also use some advice on gloves. I haven't started to research that subject.

Any other cold weather gear hints would be appreciated.


Thanks for your time.
 
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#2
JustBC said:
I will be deploying to Ukraine as a medic in late fall
Click to expand...
JustBC said:
It is possible I will be spending time in trenches or other situations with cold standing water.
Click to expand...
Are we really sending Americans to this trash fire? Good luck, and Godspeed dude.

For footwear, check out Lowas. They're my primary hunting/hiking boot, I spend a ton of time in adverse conditions and have warm/dry feet.
 
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#4
Shouldn’t you be helping put out the fires currently destroying your countryside first? Northern Cali is burning pretty good. I bet the fire teams could use more medical help
 
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#5
First this is some sort of "trolling"/weirdo thread......BurtG you fucking with me? Bender?

You haven't researched cold weather gear yet have signed up for the Ukraine........I'm guessing your basic research so far has been at CNN.

Did you get a hamburger or donut when you got your Covid shots?
 
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#10
If I knew I was gonna die in a trench by choice, you bet your ass its going to be in some Gucci German or Italian boots. Prolly leave a note in Ukrainian or Russian saying whoever takes these boots off my dead body f you and you will never be half the man your mother was....but I digress

I wear lowa ticams early late season but I would do the tibet if I was doing winter. However I think tbh i would probably run some schnees Beartooth/ timberlines if I was going to the Russian front to play Doctor browski. Keep those tourniquets handy and train train train
 
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#15
There are plenty of guys keeping it real in this thread, so I’m going to stick to the question that was asked…

My experience has been that anything can be warm enough when you are moving. But, anything that will keep you warm while stationary for long periods will be ungainly on the move. The opposite is true as well. If they are nimble on the move, they will be cold when still.

How big a boy are you? Are you a sweater? How’s your circulation? Are you a “hot sleeper?” What’s your typical cold weather setup? Are you a under layer + mid layer + outer layer + shell guy, or more of a “this tee shirt is fine” guy?

Boots built for snow are great for sitting around outside in the cold, but they’re generally not actually waterproof. Insulated Muck boots are also great for sitting around, and are waterproof, but are not as warm as good “winter boots.” Neither are great for moving long distances by foot.

Regardless of what you choose, dry dead air space is what keeps you warm. Loosening your footwear when you are not active will improve the circulation to your feet, while also allowing the insulation in the footwear to trap more air. Tight footwear ==> cold feet.

Wet feet ==> cold feet. But, wet comes from both the outside as well as the inside. Waterproof is great until the pool of sweat that it caused is freezing under your foot.

I wear insulated much boots when deer hunting. It’s not super cold here- mornings will typically be in the 30s in Dec, but it is always wet and muddy. I only need to walk about 1/4 mile to my stand, then it’s sitting still for several hours. While I am not recommending Muck boots for the OP’s situation, this does illustrate an edge case.

But, if someone told me that I was going to be standing in partially-frozen ankle-deep mud for weeks at a time, I’d be looking for some heavily insulated rubber/neoprene boots.

No one can really tell you what will work for you. They can only tell you what works for them.
 
#17
hlee said:
There are plenty of guys keeping it real in this thread, so I’m going to stick to the question that was asked…

My experience has been that anything can be warm enough when you are moving. But, anything that will keep you warm while stationary for long periods will be ungainly on the move. The opposite is true as well. If they are nimble on the move, they will be cold when still.

How big a boy are you? Are you a sweater? How’s your circulation? Are you a “hot sleeper?” What’s your typical cold weather setup? Are you a under layer + mid layer + outer layer + shell guy, or more of a “this tee shirt is fine” guy?

Boots built for snow are great for sitting around outside in the cold, but they’re generally not actually waterproof. Insulated Muck boots are also great for sitting around, and are waterproof, but are not as warm as good “winter boots.” Neither are great for moving long distances by foot.

Regardless of what you choose, dry dead air space is what keeps you warm. Loosening your footwear when you are not active will improve the circulation to your feet, while also allowing the insulation in the footwear to trap more air. Tight footwear ==> cold feet.

Wet feet ==> cold feet. But, wet comes from both the outside as well as the inside. Waterproof is great until the pool of sweat that it caused is freezing under your foot.

I wear insulated much boots when deer hunting. It’s not super cold here- mornings will typically be in the 30s in Dec, but it is always wet and muddy. I only need to walk about 1/4 mile to my stand, then it’s sitting still for several hours. While I am not recommending Muck boots for the OP’s situation, this does illustrate an edge case.

But, if someone told me that I was going to be standing in partially-frozen ankle-deep mud for weeks at a time, I’d be looking for some heavily insulated rubber/neoprene boots.

No one can really tell you what will work for you. They can only tell you what works for them.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your response.

"Regardless of what you choose, dry dead air space is what keeps you warm. Loosening your footwear when you are not active will improve the circulation to your feet, while also allowing the insulation in the footwear to trap more air. Tight footwear ==> cold feet."

^This gives me information I can work with. ^ Thanks!
.
I do underlayer+mid+outer. I'm not a big boy but I am a "sweater" and do sleep hot
 
#18
"But, if someone told me that I was going to be standing in partially-frozen ankle-deep mud for weeks at a time, I’d be looking for some heavily insulated rubber/neoprene boots."
Those ARE issued by the Ukes.
 
#19
pmclaine said:
First this is some sort of "trolling"/weirdo thread......BurtG you fucking with me? Bender?

You haven't researched cold weather gear yet have signed up for the Ukraine........I'm guessing your basic research so far has been at CNN.

Did you get a hamburger or donut when you got your Covid shots?
Click to expand...
I got a nice juicy sirloin steak with my vax. Medium rare. If you only got a burger, you got screwed.
 
#26
Taylorbok said:
honestly the first I've ever heard of it. You got a recommendation on which ones are good?
Click to expand...
I like injinji merino wool liners when doing long rucks. The individual toes prevent blisters.

www.injinji.com

Liner Crew Wool

The Liner Crew Wool features all the benefits of Merino wool in a thin, lightweight baselayer sock, ideal for hikers looking for comfort and blister protection.
www.injinji.com www.injinji.com
 
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#27
Taylorbok said:
honestly the first I've ever heard of it. You got a recommendation on which ones are good?
Click to expand...
BEFORE you put on the liner socks, get yourself a can of the cheapest spray on antiperspirant you can find. It doesn't matter if it is Rose Garden scented, Gwyneth Paltrow scented or unscented, just be sure it is antiperspirant and not merely deodorant. Hose your feet down good, get the soles and between the toes. I use the liner socks to wipe that shit all over my feet real good. Put on the liner socks. I like thin polypropylene socks because they 1) don't hold sweat against your foot and 2) allow for some air space between your foot and the insulating sock.
Then do as previously posted...loosen the laces when you stop moving. I go so far as to take the boots off if I can and swap out the insulating socks. A pair of those old Air Force mukluks or down booties to wear when you are more sedentary also works wonders and do not add much weight to the kit, allowing your "mover" boots to release some moisture. If you really do need to be warm AND sedentary, explore the various boots with removable liners made of felt or foam. Baffin makes some. There are others.
Baffin makes some really warm boots. My favorite are called the Ice Bear. No liners, just polyurethane rated to -70F or something. My feet have never been cold in them (15 North Dakota oilpatch winters). The tops are loose and if you tuck your pants inside, they allow the sweat vapor to escape out the top, reducing the felt sweat.

EDIT to say...not just my feet sweat lots. This time of year if I'm outside working and bend over like when I am framing a wall, it's not a drip running off my head, it's a stream. I often drink 3-4 gallons of water in a day if I am working hard just to be sure I am peeing on schedule.
 
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#28
So this was a poorly phrased question. Serves me right for writing it on little sleep. I appreciate the useful responses.
I will try the Fox river liners, also the liner crew wool (not at the same time obviously) and see what works.
@Huskydriver those are words to live by. @hlee thanks for the information. @Aftermath thank you. I too sweat buckets. It would not have occurred to me to try antiperspirant on my feet. Going to stay away from the Gwyneth stuff though ;)
 
#29
Safety toe is different from steel toe.
A composite toe won't be AS cold as a real steel toe.

I like Danner Vicious for my work boots. Mostly due to comfort.
Mink wax or "Nikwax" for extra waterproofing.

If your not trolling.
Ukr was a good cause for the first 2 years. (dispite what Maga cult members regurgitate non stop)
It's a lost cause now though.
 
#30
saddlerocker said:
Safety toe is different from steel toe.
A composite toe won't be AS cold as a real steel toe.

I like Danner Vicious for my work boots. Mostly due to comfort.
Mink wax or "Nikwax" for extra waterproofing.

If your not trolling.
Ukr was a good cause for the first 2 years. (dispite what Maga cult members regurgitate non stop)
It's a lost cause now though.
Click to expand...
Not trolling . I wasn't in a position to do anything for the first two years but give some $$. I agree things are heading downhill in a hurry but I still hope I can help some. Thanks for the info on Danner/Nikwax
 
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#31
hlee said:
There are plenty of guys keeping it real in this thread, so I’m going to stick to the question that was asked…

My experience has been that anything can be warm enough when you are moving. But, anything that will keep you warm while stationary for long periods will be ungainly on the move. The opposite is true as well. If they are nimble on the move, they will be cold when still.

How big a boy are you? Are you a sweater? How’s your circulation? Are you a “hot sleeper?” What’s your typical cold weather setup? Are you a under layer + mid layer + outer layer + shell guy, or more of a “this tee shirt is fine” guy?

Boots built for snow are great for sitting around outside in the cold, but they’re generally not actually waterproof. Insulated Muck boots are also great for sitting around, and are waterproof, but are not as warm as good “winter boots.” Neither are great for moving long distances by foot.

Regardless of what you choose, dry dead air space is what keeps you warm. Loosening your footwear when you are not active will improve the circulation to your feet, while also allowing the insulation in the footwear to trap more air. Tight footwear ==> cold feet.

Wet feet ==> cold feet. But, wet comes from both the outside as well as the inside. Waterproof is great until the pool of sweat that it caused is freezing under your foot.

I wear insulated much boots when deer hunting. It’s not super cold here- mornings will typically be in the 30s in Dec, but it is always wet and muddy. I only need to walk about 1/4 mile to my stand, then it’s sitting still for several hours. While I am not recommending Muck boots for the OP’s situation, this does illustrate an edge case.

But, if someone told me that I was going to be standing in partially-frozen ankle-deep mud for weeks at a time, I’d be looking for some heavily insulated rubber/neoprene boots.

No one can really tell you what will work for you. They can only tell you what works for them.
Click to expand...
You should go to Ukraine and be the Al Bundy of the trenches.

Bring your brannock device.
 
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#36
How cold are the temps? How much snow is expected? How far do you think you’ll be walking, or are you getting driven to most places?

These are crucial questions.
 
#38
JustBC said:
"But, if someone told me that I was going to be standing in partially-frozen ankle-deep mud for weeks at a time, I’d be looking for some heavily insulated rubber/neoprene boots."
Those ARE issued by the Ukes.
Click to expand...
Fuck Ukrainian issue shit...take a good pair of Muck Boots. Talk to waterfowl hunters.

Men's Tall Boots | Muck Boot Company

Muckboot
www.muckbootcompany.com www.muckbootcompany.com
 
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#39
JustBC said:
I wasn't in a position to do anything for the first two years but give some $$
Click to expand...
Yeah, early 1990's right out of medic school I seriously considered joining the Sarajevo medics. Prissy Doctors Without Borders only wanted RN's, not medics, and weren't really doing much for the civies there anyways. Instead I ended up in East Los Angeles (different war zone I guess).

Good luck and God bless if you do go.
 
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#41
I wear pac boots in mn/nd, but they’re not the best hiking footwear. I own the Impact and Apex models. Impact is lighter and more comfy. Wouldn’t really want to run for my life in them, but I could. Good for trudging through deep snow and sitting.


I did a cursory check and Ukraine seems not to be near as cold as mn/nd can get. Saw a site that listed their record cold to be about -24°F, which isn’t the end of the world. But it’s in sight of it. Watch out for the wind. Kill you quick if you’re not prepared.

Triple check my info, of course.

Record for MN is -60°F air temp in 1996 in Tower MN.

If you buy boots with a removable liner, buy some extra liners as you can dry the wet pair out while you use the dry pair. Sweat is the enemy, and I think muck boots might be the worst in this regard.

No one I know uses muck boots up here in the winter, but maybe they make models that are insulated more like pac boots now. Baffin seems to make some, but I have no experience with them.

If they’re just neoprene like my mucks your damn wet-from-sweat feet are going to fall off, especially if you stop moving. In boots, the cold comes up from the ground (unlike a parka)…you need thick insulation under your soles.

Not talking about socks for insulation. That doesn’t work very well. A thick sole with a thick liner is what works.

And do NOT wear such thick socks that they squeeze your feet in the boots. They’ll squeeze your blood right outta your feet and bam! frostbite. I find looser boots to be warmer in the winter. Not sloppy loose, just not like summer hiking boot tight.

The mud looks to be a formidable issue. You should probably bring a variety of footwear…hopefully you can store the stuff you’re not using somewhere.
 
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#42
Btw if you go Baffin I’d go Eiger instead of Impact if your walking a ways. The Impact’s buckles can rub. Order two sizes larger. Trust me.

And their warmest pac boots like mine are huge. WAY bigger than Sorels (which are made in Asia now, not Canada).

Their Litesport looks interesting for a lower weight option.

Anyway, they have a bunch of well-made boots. If pac boots are too big/warm, you have choices.

Check out their industrial collection too:
www.baffin.com

Men's Industrial Footwear

Industrial footwear trusted for the toughest, most demanding jobs. Designed for comfort, quality, and performance.
www.baffin.com www.baffin.com
 
#43
carbonbased said:
No one I know uses muck boots up here in the winter, but maybe they make models that are insulated more like pac boots now.
Click to expand...
I have a pair of their Arctic Pro but they are shit for walking in. IMO, they are for standing in goose pits and duck blinds and that's why I got them. I think the OP said that the Ukes would issue neoprene boots to him and that part of his environment would be standing in cold and mud for long periods....and again, IMO...fuck Uke issue, take Mucks for that purpose but not for everyday walking around. But I don't live in MN/ND and people who do really know about cold weather gear.

Men's Mossy Oak® Country DNA™ Arctic Pro Boot

Men's Mossy Oak® Country DNA™ Arctic Pro Boot ACPMOCT , Muck Boot Company
www.muckbootcompany.com www.muckbootcompany.com

And, again in my limited opinion, sock liners, wool socks and plenty of room is well recommended. Cheers
 
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#44
Baron23 said:
I have a pair of their Arctic Pro but they are shit for walking in. IMO, they are for standing in goose pits and duck blinds and that's why I got them. I think the OP said that the Ukes would issue neoprene boots to him and that part of his environment would be standing in cold and mud for long periods....and again, IMO...fuck Uke issue, take Mucks for that purpose but not for everyday walking around. But I don't live in MN/ND and people who do really know about cold weather gear.

Men's Mossy Oak® Country DNA™ Arctic Pro Boot

Men's Mossy Oak® Country DNA™ Arctic Pro Boot ACPMOCT , Muck Boot Company
www.muckbootcompany.com www.muckbootcompany.com

And, again in my limited opinion, sock liners, wool socks and plenty of room is well recommended. Cheers
Click to expand...
Small correction… OP said that the Ukes issue mucks, to Ukes. OP needs to bring all of his own gear. Doesn’t sound like any “deployment” I’d be a part of.
 
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#46
Oh! I just remembered that Ukraine sniper guy that was on here a while back. Seemed legit as I gave him tons of crap and he reacted in a way that wasn’t…Buddly. But I could be wrong.

I think he posted in the Fieldcraft forum. Yeah:
www.snipershide.com

Fieldcraft - Sniper war in Ukraine

Enione will bee interesting speek about new expirience in sniping.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

Anyway, it’s sorta a funny read. IIRC the dude is kinda English illiterate and finally started using a translator app to communicate. Then he started making some sense.

You could ask him about boots. Just keep in mind it could all be bs.
 
#47
carbonbased said:
Oh! I just remembered that Ukraine sniper guy that was on here a while back. Seemed legit as I gave him tons of crap and he reacted in a way that wasn’t…Buddly. But I could be wrong.

I think he posted in the Fieldcraft forum. Yeah:
www.snipershide.com

Fieldcraft - Sniper war in Ukraine

Enione will bee interesting speek about new expirience in sniping.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

Anyway, it’s sorta a funny read. IIRC the dude is kinda English illiterate and finally started using a translator app to communicate. Then he started making some sense.

You could ask him about boots. Just keep in mind it could all be bs.
Click to expand...

That info is easily checksum'ed.
1) Ask "Do you have a Baby Yoda patch"

Screenshot 2024-07-27 at 10.23.57.png


2) Ask if they bang men.

3) Ask if they're Sarah Ashton Cirillo

At any time, if the answers are no, you know it's BS.
At any time, if the answers are yes, you know it's BS, but they're also gay.
 
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#48
carbonbased said:
How cold are the temps? How much snow is expected? How far do you think you’ll be walking, or are you getting driven to most places?

These are crucial questions.
Click to expand...
Good questions. From what I understand, last winter wasn't that bad. It can get killer cold there. I am planning for the worst.

Going in, may well be walking. Getting out of an area, if there are multiple casualties, I may get driven. Going out with a single casualty. I may be jogging with a sled behind me.
hlee said:
Small correction… OP said that the Ukes issue mucks, to Ukes. OP needs to bring all of his own gear. Doesn’t sound like any “deployment” I’d be a part of.
Click to expand...

carbonbased said:
Oh! I just remembered that Ukraine sniper guy that was on here a while back. Seemed legit as I gave him tons of crap and he reacted in a way that wasn’t…Buddly. But I could be wrong.

I think he posted in the Fieldcraft forum. Yeah:
www.snipershide.com

Fieldcraft - Sniper war in Ukraine

Enione will bee interesting speek about new expirience in sniping.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

Anyway, it’s sorta a funny read. IIRC the dude is kinda English illiterate and finally started using a translator app to communicate. Then he started making some sense.

You could ask him about boots. Just keep in mind it could all be bs.
Click to expand...

hlee said:
Small correction… OP said that the Ukes issue mucks, to Ukes. OP needs to bring all of his own gear. Doesn’t sound like any “deployment” I’d be a part of.
Click to expand...
You can "deploy" with orgs like the "Foreign Legion in Defense of Ukraine" They will issue you gear. They pay you a salary. It is a 6 month minimum commit and you are part of the Ukrainian military. That option has it's advantages like issued gear. It also has clear disadvantages that I will leave to your imagination.

You can volunteer with NGOs. You BYO gear and pay your own way. They give you room and board.
I prefer the freedom and flexibility of an NGO even if it means I need to pay for my gear.
 
#49
carbonbased said:
Oh! I just remembered that Ukraine sniper guy that was on here a while back. Seemed legit as I gave him tons of crap and he reacted in a way that wasn’t…Buddly. But I could be wrong.

I think he posted in the Fieldcraft forum. Yeah:
www.snipershide.com

Fieldcraft - Sniper war in Ukraine

Enione will bee interesting speek about new expirience in sniping.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

Anyway, it’s sorta a funny read. IIRC the dude is kinda English illiterate and finally started using a translator app to communicate. Then he started making some sense.

You could ask him about boots. Just keep in mind it could all be bs.
Click to expand...
Jesus! that was a rough thread.
 
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