GAP Non Typical

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

Use case: Mammoth primary focus and PRS as a secondary training goal.

I’m looking at some custom 700s. There are some AIs floating around in 6.5 as well. Also the traditional Impact + Chassis + other stuff for the pretty standard 2500$~ DIY rifle.

Regarding the Non Typical, I know it’s primarily a hunting setup, but I’m also not wanting to hump a 20 pound Mk22 around for three days if I can help it. Is the typical heavy sporter/Sendero ish contour going to last at all under a 6.5 PRC load? I’ve really only shot 308 and 556 traditionally so this is (besides a 6.5 Creed) my first experience in to barrel burner rounds. I love the BC and everything of the round, just need someone to tell me an M24 contour isn’t necessary to go miss a bunch with a nice rifle.

TLDR Gap has some nice ready to ships. How heavy and are the lighter barrels ok?

kthomas · Aug 3, 2024

You have two different competing objectives here, and any direction you go will force a big compromise for one or the other.

A rifle that would be optimal for Mammoth would not be very suitable for PRS, and vice versa.

I will suggest something. Build a rifle, and get two different barrels spun up for it. A short lightweight one for Mammoth (think 18-22" medium palma or something), and a heavy barrel for PRS (26# Heavy Varmint or similar). Stick it in your chassis of choice. You can picker a lighter chassis, and add removable weights to it for PRS, if you wanted.

If $2500 is your budget for the rifle, you will likely have to increase it.

Here is a build option:
- ARC CDG Action - $900
- Barrel #1 - $800
- Barrel #2 - $800
- KRG Whiskey 3 Comp chassis - $1000
- Trigger - $250

Total, that would be just under $4k (~$3750ish). You can save some money on the chassis (a KRG Bravo would be about ~$400) and/or on the barrels by going with proof prefits or PVA (you can maybe save $400 total here), which would get you around $3k-ish.

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

My budget is around 4k - I know I’m kind of in competing objectives which is just unfortunate. I am *far* less concerned about PRS performance and even having a chassis at all. I shoot how I shoot in that context. I prefer stocks like Manners/McM etc - just what I grew up shooting. PRS is simply practice.

Ideas I’m referencing are like:

GA PRECISION NON-TYPICAL - 6.5PRC - MCS-EH6A DESERT SAND

GA PRECISION NON-TYPICAL - 6.5PRC - MCS-EH6A DESERT SAND GA Non-Typical Short Action (Integral Recoil Lug, Non-Typical 20MOA Base) Trigger Tech Special @ 2 lbs Bartlein Carbon Fiber Wrapped 5R Stainless Barrel, CFW#4 Contour, 26", 1-7.75" Twist

www.gaprecision.net

Or this fella

CURTIS AXIOM HYBRID -- 6.5PRC -- MCS-EH1 ELITE HIGH PLAINS

CURTIS AXIOM HYBRID -- 6.5PRC -- MCS-EH1 ELITE HIGH PLAINS Curtis Axiom Hybrid Trigger Tech Special @ 2 lbs. Bartlein Carbon Fiber Wrapped Barrel CFW #13, 24in Finished Length, 1:7.75" Twist Rate Threaded 5/8-24 w/ Thread Protector Manners Composite

www.gaprecision.net

Or something in that general price range. Also open to your idea about a BA in a more traditional stock too

kthomas · Aug 3, 2024

giveemshell2 said:
My budget is around 4k - I know I’m kind of in competing objectives which is just unfortunate. I am *far* less concerned about PRS performance and even having a chassis at all. I shoot how I shoot in that context. I prefer stocks like Manners/McM etc - just what I grew up shooting. PRS is simply practice.

Ideas I’m referencing are like:

GA PRECISION NON-TYPICAL - 6.5PRC - MCS-EH6A DESERT SAND

GA PRECISION NON-TYPICAL - 6.5PRC - MCS-EH6A DESERT SAND GA Non-Typical Short Action (Integral Recoil Lug, Non-Typical 20MOA Base) Trigger Tech Special @ 2 lbs Bartlein Carbon Fiber Wrapped 5R Stainless Barrel, CFW#4 Contour, 26", 1-7.75" Twist

www.gaprecision.net

Or this fella

CURTIS AXIOM HYBRID -- 6.5PRC -- MCS-EH1 ELITE HIGH PLAINS

CURTIS AXIOM HYBRID -- 6.5PRC -- MCS-EH1 ELITE HIGH PLAINS Curtis Axiom Hybrid Trigger Tech Special @ 2 lbs. Bartlein Carbon Fiber Wrapped Barrel CFW #13, 24in Finished Length, 1:7.75" Twist Rate Threaded 5/8-24 w/ Thread Protector Manners Composite

www.gaprecision.net

Or something in that general price range. Also open to your idea about a BA in a more traditional stock too

Stocks versus chassis is personal preference. If you prefer a stock, get a stock. IMO, I would get a stock with more of a vertical grip than the stock that the non-typical has. The second option looks better, speaking purely about the grip ergos.

The Manners pro hunter stock may be worth a look. Its also really lightweight at 26 ozs, about 3 lbs lighter than the chassis I recommended. Its also the same price. You could easily build a rifle in the 10-12lb range with that stock, scope included.

If it was me, I would do a custom build over the two options you posted here. You could build a rifle that is more optimal for what you are seeking to achieve, IMO.

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

kthomas said:
Stocks versus chassis is personal preference. If you prefer a stock, get a stock. IMO, I would get a stock with more of a vertical grip than the stock that the non-typical has. The second option looks better, speaking purely about the grip ergos.

The Manners pro hunter stock may be worth a look. Its also really lightweight at 26 ozs, about 3 lbs lighter than the chassis I recommended. Its also the same price. You could easily build a rifle in the 10-12lb range with that stock, scope included.

If it was me, I would do a custom build over the two options you posted here. You could build a rifle that is more optimal for what you are seeking to achieve, IMO.

I don’t have any tooling - what are all the cool kids using for BAs now?

kthomas · Aug 3, 2024

giveemshell2 said:
I don’t have any tooling - what are all the cool kids using for BAs now?

You don't need any.

You can order a prefit right to your door. Install is simple, you just need an action wrench, barrel vice, anti-seize and 5 minutes.

Or, if you only want/need one barrel, you can have your gunsmith install the barrel on the action, and they can ship you the BA. Or he can install all the rifle components and ship you a complete build.

Another option is to get an action that has a QC ('quick change') feature - like the Terminus Zeus. You only need a hex key/allen wrench for a barrel install on something like that. Keep in mind, a Terminus Zeus will add an additional $700 to the build over something like an ARC CDG.

Secant · Aug 3, 2024

To add on, if you buy an action and prefit from the same outfit, most will torque it on for you (if that’s a sticking point). Having the tools on hand is cheap, and well worth it to swap barrels down the road though.

I recently stacked codes at Brownells to get a Kelbly Prometheus for $920 shipped. I’ve seen Impacts for ~$1250. Defiance Ruckus’s can be found for $1100 - $1200 range. Nothing against GAP, but I’d source parts and torque them together yourself. Unless you’re doing weird stuff, you can save a bunch of money with a very minor amount of DYI.

NateVA · Aug 3, 2024

I'll echo that and also say go custom using the advice already given here. And put real thought into the scope and scope mount too.

kthomas · Aug 3, 2024

NateVA said:
I'll echo that and also say go custom using the advice already given here. And put real thought into the scope and scope mount too.

Speaking of scopes, the Leupold MK5HDs seem to be a pretty good balance of performance, value and weight.

A 3.6-18 MK5 is about 26 ozs.

NF Ultralight rings for weight savings. They are around 4 ozs I think.

If you don't mind a big more weight, the OP could go ARC M-Brace (10-11 ozs) or Gray Ops mount (8 ozs).

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

NateVA said:
I'll echo that and also say go custom using the advice already given here. And put real thought into the scope and scope mount too.

Scope is a Razor 6-36 G3 with a one piece Mount for my lrf because unknown distance shooting is a big factor. Heavy as hell but the nicest piece of optics I’ll have ever owned.

I’ve always bought an ok rifle and then eh glass whatever I could afford, this time I’m trying to build it from the glass backward basically. I looked at HD5s hard but the general hide consensus was the 636 Vortex was a tier above. I also looked at the S3 and ATACR 735.. the Vortex 636 (with the “what the pros use” reticle selected) was ultimately the winner. I also got it in black so quite a bit cheaper than normal.

Also the lifetime warranty, but that’s neither here nor there.

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

kthomas said:
You don't need any.

You can order a prefit right to your door. Install is simple, you just need an action wrench, barrel vice, anti-seize and 5 minutes.

Or, if you only want/need one barrel, you can have your gunsmith install the barrel on the action, and they can ship you the BA. Or he can install all the rifle components and ship you a complete build.

Another option is to get an action that has a QC ('quick change') feature - like the Terminus Zeus. You only need a hex key/allen wrench for a barrel install on something like that. Keep in mind, a Terminus Zeus will add an additional $700 to the build over something like an ARC CDG.

Holy cow I did some research and you really can barrel swap with an Allen key that is insane!

You’re the man I’m getting one that’s so cool..6.5 creed and 308 together same bolt even correct?

NateVA · Aug 3, 2024

giveemshell2 said:
You’re the man I’m getting one that’s so cool..6.5 creed and 308 together same bolt even correct?

Correct.

kthomas · Aug 3, 2024

giveemshell2 said:
Holy cow I did some research and you really can barrel swap with an Allen key that is insane!

You’re the man I’m getting one that’s so cool..6.5 creed and 308 together same bolt even correct?

One thing that I should point out, if you want to utilize the Zeus's QC feature, the barrel has to specifically be cut for that.

Gunsmiths can spin up barrels for the Zeus in one of two ways: 1. To be torqued on, or 2. To use the QC feature. They will be cut differently to accommodate one of those two.

Here's an example, taken from TS Customs site:

The one circled in green is what you want. Red is if you are planning on torquing it up, which would require the equipment I called out in an earlier post:

giveemshell2 · Aug 3, 2024

kthomas said:
One thing that I should point out, if you want to utilize the Zeus's QC feature, the barrel has to specifically be cut for that.

Gunsmiths can spin up barrels for the Zeus in one of two ways: 1. To be torqued on, or 2. To use the QC feature. They will be cut differently to accommodate one of those two.

Here's an example, taken from TS Customs site:

The one circled in green is what you want. Red is if you are planning on torquing it up, which would require the equipment I called out in an earlier post:

View attachment 8472170

I did see that and am looking at all the short action v long action v .470+/- bolt face cartridge swaps etc…I think the Zeus in short action is the way. Get two barrels cut for 308 and 6.5 creed in QC and swap them. Doing some research on 6.5 PRC to make sure anything I want to shoot is accounted for .. or rather the biggest group of options I can get is, anyway..

You dudes have been wicked helpful thank you…

So PRC is a magnum bolt face but 6.5-284 has similar performance and is a .473 face I think and isn’t that much different from 6.5 Creed…This rabbit hole goes on and I shouldn’t overthink it…yeah…short action and get 6.5 and 308…and find a stock with a Zeus inlet.

noremorse92 · Aug 3, 2024

Whatever you do make sure you can change the bolt face. Then it's just a case of switching barrels and bolt faces and you retain the same stock and scope for a variety of chamberings. That means you can get exactly the scope you want and exactly the stock you want since you're only buying 1 of each.

If you can get a stock with the vertical grip like a mcmillan a5 or mcs t4 or similar I'd recommend that. Once you're used to that design it's impossible to go back to a traditional hunting stock. Stockys has a very affordable carbon a5 style stock.

Also you WILL end up wanting a 223 setup for your switch barrel rig. Trust me it's the best practice you'll ever get you'll permanently shun the 22lr lol

jbuck88 · Aug 4, 2024

noremorse92 said:
Whatever you do make sure you can change the bolt face. Then it's just a case of switching barrels and bolt faces and you retain the same stock and scope for a variety of chamberings. That means you can get exactly the scope you want and exactly the stock you want since you're only buying 1 of each.

If you can get a stock with the vertical grip like a mcmillan a5 or mcs t4 or similar I'd recommend that. Once you're used to that design it's impossible to go back to a traditional hunting stock. Stockys has a very affordable carbon a5 style stock.

Also you WILL end up wanting a 223 setup for your switch barrel rig. Trust me it's the best practice you'll ever get you'll permanently shun the 22lr lol

I disagree with this. I run a more traditional styled stock for hunting, McMillan HTG. I tried a vertical stock and didn't gain anything from it.

It comes down to personal preference. What do you like since you're going to be the one stuck with your choice.

Similarly I tried the 223 bolt gun and gave up on it for practice. Don't gain much $$$ wise and with suppressors or brakes I didn't gain enough to justify another round.

Again nobody can decide what's right for you. We can help point out benefits and drawbacks that we see.

noremorse92 · Aug 4, 2024

jbuck88 said:
I disagree with this. I run a more traditional styled stock for hunting, McMillan HTG. I tried a vertical stock and didn't gain anything from it.

It comes down to personal preference. What do you like since you're going to be the one stuck with your choice.

Similarly I tried the 223 bolt gun and gave up on it for practice. Don't gain much $$$ wise and with suppressors or brakes I didn't gain enough to justify another round.

Again nobody can decide what's right for you. We can help point out benefits and drawbacks that we see.

That's fair. It took me a few months and a few hundred rounds to get used to that vertical grip style stock but now I can't not have it. Especially shooting prone, it's just so comfortable to me now.

Saying that thought I can't do a chassis. I just don't like them.

I've always loved the 223 cartridge. Cheap to shoot and load for, accurate at reasonable distances, kills well for small and medium sized game, factory ammo always available, great barrel life, little recoil, benefits greatly from hand loading in terms of performance. The ackley version takes all of it up a notch and that's what I shoot now.

In an ideal world 6br factory ammo would be available widely and cheaply and that's probably all I'd ever shoot in that case.

NateVA · Aug 4, 2024

jbuck88 said:
I disagree with this. I run a more traditional styled stock for hunting, McMillan HTG. I tried a vertical stock and didn't gain anything from it.

It comes down to personal preference. What do you like since you're going to be the one stuck with your choice.

I think we can acknowledge there are exceptions to the rule without throwing the rule out. The vast majority of people will (for the kind of shooting done here) prefer a more vertical grip.

giveemshell2 · Aug 4, 2024

If anyone comes from the future…Also of note from all my research: Curtis Valor actions also have the set screw and also the AI C(?) systems.

jbuck88 · Aug 4, 2024

NateVA said:
I think we can acknowledge there are exceptions to the rule without throwing the rule out. The vast majority of people will (for the kind of shooting done here) prefer a more vertical grip.

I agree most here will prefer a vertical gripped stock.

giveemshell2 · Aug 9, 2024

Not going to lie to you boys, trying to build my own custom has been an incredibly shit awful experience. I’ll never do this again. Sourcing all the parts, half of which might have a year wait unless you call and get extremely lucky, bought a scope that arrived as the wrong thing and then UPS mistakenly swapped the return label so it got sent to wheretheshitville. My experience so far is most of the people will give you the shirt off their back to help you out if you’ve got the coin, but the actual activity sucks. I could’ve been at the range by now and I don’t even have a single part yet.

Luckily I have plenty of time, but pretty good gear you have to train with is exceptionally better than gear you don’t have. Again, luckily I can afford to wait and be patient through a few hiccups and it’s not a big deal. But for someone really new to this that’s not me, may not be the best option

Secant · Aug 9, 2024

giveemshell2 said:
Not going to lie to you boys, trying to build my own custom has been an incredibly shit awful experience. I’ll never do this again. Sourcing all the parts, half of which might have a year wait unless you call and get extremely lucky, bought a scope that arrived as the wrong thing and then UPS mistakenly swapped the return label so it got sent to wheretheshitville. My experience so far is most of the people will give you the shirt off their back to help you out if you’ve got the coin, but the actual activity sucks. I could’ve been at the range by now and I don’t even have a single part yet.

Luckily I have plenty of time, but pretty good gear you have to train with is exceptionally better than gear you don’t have. Again, luckily I can afford to wait and be patient through a few hiccups and it’s not a big deal. But for someone really new to this that’s not me, may not be the best option

That sucks man. The Terminus has historically had awful wait times, unless you stumble across a retailer that just happened to get resupplied.

You could hop over to Red Hawk rifles and get an Impact 737R with a free TT Special trigger for $1365 + transfer fee. My last prefit order from TS Customs was in July and I had the barrel in hand within about 2-weeks (figure about $825 with shipping). Manners has stocks in stock, as does McMillan, various dealers have MDT, MPA, XLR, and other chassis ready to ship.

Maybe I missed it, but post up what parts you are trying to get and I bet folks here can tell you where to shop or at least let you know which components historically have retarded wait times.

giveemshell2 · Aug 9, 2024

Secant said:
That sucks man. The Terminus has historically had awful wait times, unless you stumble across a retailer that just happened to get resupplied.

You could hop over to Red Hawk rifles and get an Impact 737R with a free TT Special trigger for $1365 + transfer fee. My last prefit order from TS Customs was in July and I had the barrel in hand within about 2-weeks (figure about $825 with shipping). Manners has stocks in stock, as does McMillan, various dealers have MDT, MPA, XLR, and other chassis ready to ship.

Maybe I missed it, but post up what parts you are trying to get and I bet folks here can tell you where to shop or at least let you know which components historically have retarded wait times.

I’ve got all the stuff ordered kind of. It’s all coming in eventually and it’ll be a sweet setup. I have to grab a vortex 4k and a bipod and a scope still, but it’s all coming together eventually. If I could return everything and just buy a package at this point I definitely would have considered it though. It has created an interest in gunsmithing though like how the lathes and everything with actions work etc. I basically managed to find the last one of everything I needed if I made a call or two. Lucky, assuming I do get the stuff. I did look at impacts, they definitely seem like the most available premium action

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