I need some LMT MWS help…..

hafejd30

hafejd30

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    • Feb 27, 2019
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    #1
    I first and foremost want to say I’m not an AR guy. I’m a bolt guy and let’s just figure going into this I’m a complete idiot which may be the case

    So while waiting for my barrel to arrive for a MWS I picked up here recently I decided to paint this one. Today I got some mags and decided since the barrel will be here in next few days to get it cleaned up, oiled and ready to rock

    And this is where it goes in the crapper

    I clean and oil everything. Function test the trigger/safety etc. I put the upper on the lower. Figure it’s a good time to test the mags. See if they drop free etc.

    So I pull the bolt back and insert a mag. I let the bolt forward and the BCG stops as it should. I hit the mag release and the BCG rides home. And I mean hard!! Unknown to me at the time the bolt can’t travel far enough back and the bolt head was stopped on the plastic follower of the mag

    Bad enough it cost me my charging handle as it damaged the one in the gun. I hope that’s all it did. I could not get the bolt to move back with the handle as the angle on the damage charging handle now binds the gun.

    I called LMT to tell them my initial concern but more to ask what to do now that I damaged the gun. He was very helpful and very kind despite me being a complete idiot on the other end. As he stated I should have a barrel in the gun when testing anything and I rightfully agreed. I take full blame on this

    Now realizing what damage I caused I’m still curious about my mags. I pull out an AR15 and the bolt comes back and the bolt face is what locks against the “wall” bolt stop that is pushed up by the mag. Mine doesn’t go that far back.

    I pulled the buffer/spring and it appears there’s something in the bottom of my buffer tube. Like a washer of some kind or maybe a weight from a JP silent capture system?? I messaged the guy I bought it from. Maybe it’s part of a buffer assembly left in there from him I have no idea. But it’s driving me a bit crazy now

    I put only the H3 buffer pictured below that came with the rifle in it. No spring. This way it bottomed out on the buffer tube. Or whatever is in it.

    The picture below shows the buffer against the rear of the tube, the BCG against the buffer and the bolt all the way rearward in the BCG.

    The bolt even in that state is still in front of the catch. Unless this system is different from my AR 15. I really don’t know for sure. I even pushed the BCG all the way in with the spring/buffer in the tube with my finger and again it stops where shown in the pic. Which causes the bolt head to hit the plastic follower of all 4 magazines (pmags). One 20 that came with the gun and three 10 rounders I just bought

    I really don’t want to fire a round without making sure the gun is correct the way it is. It already cost me $150 for a new charging handle as when I released the magazine the bolt used that as a stop because my dumb ass didn’t have a barrel on it

    Any help is appreciated here fellas. In a bit green in gas guns compared to bolts but I think something isn’t right here

    Here is the damage to the charging handle (left mark in red) and possibly damage to receiver. But looks like just normal wear from the pin (whatever you call in that the firing pin goes through by the bolt) which would spin into that hole when bolt is pushed back against barrel
    IMG_6747.jpeg

    IMG_6746.jpeg
    IMG_6745.jpeg
    IMG_6744.jpeg
    IMG_6743.jpeg
    IMG_6742.jpeg
     
    Last edited:
    #2
    Alright so I stuck my bore scope down to see what was in there and it came back with this,

    It’s a plastic piece

    Is this supposed to be in the end of this mws buffer tube?
    IMG_6748.jpeg
     
    #3
    With plastic piece removed here is the bolt all the way pulled back with charging handle

    Does this look correct?
    IMG_6751.jpeg

    And here it is against the bolt stop

    Does this look correct?
    IMG_6752.jpeg


    I’m basing this off what my AR15 looks like
     
    #5
    Lots to unpack here. Did you buy the LMT MWS used? That white polymer piece looks like the spacer that you use when running a JP SCS in an intermediate (A5) length receiver extension, which is the RE that you have. Your bolt catch to lug distance looks good, but make sure the body of the carrier isn't striking the inside of the lower RE hub at full rearward stroke (overtravel).
    I don't know if you want to get into what happened with the cam pin cut-out damage of the upper, and how the barrel extension lugs, bolt, carrier and cam pin all work together to cycle properly.
     
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    #6
    msgriff said:
    Lots to unpack here. Did you buy the LMT MWS used? That white polymer piece looks like the spacer that you use when running a JP SCS in an intermediate (A5) length receiver extension, which is the RE that you have. Your bolt catch to lug distance looks good, but make sure the body of the carrier isn't striking the inside of the lower RE hub at full rearward stroke (overtravel).
    I don't know if you want to get into what happened with the cam pin cut-out damage of the upper, and how the barrel extension lugs, bolt, carrier and cam pin all work together to cycle properly.
    Click to expand...
    Yes I bought it used here a couple weeks or month ago

    What is RE?

    With the cam pin does this look normal? Just wondering if this was caused when the damage occurred to the charging handle. I don’t think so. If it’s normal wear and tear I’m fine with it
     
    #7
    hafejd30 said:
    Yes I bought it used here a couple weeks or month ago

    What is RE?
    Click to expand...
    RE=lower receiver extension or buffer tube.
    ETA: "Used" would increase the chances that the previous owner had a JP SCS and changed it out to a standard buffer and spring, but forgot to remove the spacer.
    ETA2: I'd double check that you have the correct spring. Buffer length is good, but check the weight, you want an H2 or H3.
     
    Last edited:
    #8
    msgriff said:
    RE=lower receiver extension or buffer tube.
    Click to expand...
    When you say striking you mean the bottom of the tube or rear of the tube. I believe with the handle all the way back the rubber end of the buffer is bottomed out on the buffer tube

    It’s the dmr stock if that helps
     
    #9
    hafejd30 said:
    With the cam pin does this look normal? Just wondering if this was caused when the damage occurred to the charging handle. I don’t think so. If it’s normal wear and tear I’m fine with it
    Click to expand...
    That’s normal wear from the cam pin on the receiver there. You will see it on small frame ARs within the first magazine. Looks like a bit of wear from the BCG bearing surfaces too, also normal.
     
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    #10
    TheOE800 said:
    That’s normal wear from the cam pin on the receiver there. You will see it on small frame ARs within the first magazine. Looks like a bit of wear from the BCG bearing surfaces too, also normal.
    Click to expand...
    Thanks!

    It’s hard to tell how smooth the bolt travel is. Seems normal. But the charging handle want to ride up the edge of the BCG so I can’t tell anything until my new handle arrives

    It’s been par for the course lately….I have an AI coming. I’m just going to park that in the safe until 2025 😁
     
    #11
    I believe the only damage was the charging handle. Maybe sending it in for a checkup is a good idea.

    Waiting to hear back from the guy I bought it from. At least for him to say yeah I swapped it back before I sold it or that he had issues with magazines or something. Just to confirm I’m not loosing it. Or I’ll call LMT back again and see what they say. Super nice people. I felt like a dumb dumb but it is what it is I suppose

    I planned to have it shooting deer next week. But we’ll see I guess
     
    #12
    That’s the correct full size (AR-15/M4) length buffer.
    msgriff said:
    Lots to unpack here. Did you buy the LMT MWS used? That white polymer piece looks like the spacer that you use when running a JP SCS in an intermediate (A5) length receiver extension, which is the RE that you have. Your bolt catch to lug distance looks good, but make sure the body of the carrier isn't striking the inside of the lower RE hub at full rearward stroke (overtravel).
    I don't know if you want to get into what happened with the cam pin cut-out damage of the upper, and how the barrel extension lugs, bolt, carrier and cam pin all work together to cycle properly.
    Click to expand...
    Shouldn’t need the spacer running the recoil components I see here which appear standard.
     
    #13
    TheOE800 said:
    That’s the correct full size (AR-15/M4) length buffer.

    Shouldn’t need the spacer running the recoil components I see here which appear standard.
    Click to expand...
    Right as long as the bolt catch for the empty mag is supposed to lock against the bolt face like my AR 15 does then the plastic piece definitely isn’t supposed to be there. Because even without the spring and bolt back in the BCG which it wouldn’t be like that in the gun it still won’t function
     
    #14
    hafejd30 said:
    When you say striking you mean the bottom of the tube or rear of the tube. I believe with the handle all the way back the rubber end of the buffer is bottomed out on the buffer tube

    It’s the dmr stock if that helps
    Click to expand...
    Here's an image of overtravel damage, usually caused by parts compatibility issues, but can happen with damage, like a collapsed buffer bumper. I doubt you have a problem, though. Also, I added a couple "ETA" above.

    1680976504397-png.8115703
     
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    #15
    msgriff said:
    Here's an image of overtravel damage, usually caused by parts compatibility issues, but can happen with damage, like a collapsed buffer bumper. I doubt you have a problem, though. Also, I added a couple "ETA" above.

    1680976504397-png.8115703
    Click to expand...
    It’s an H3

    There’s no damage like that. But if he shot it with a different system I’d have to watch for it when I shoot it
     
    #16
    msgriff said:
    Here's an image of overtravel damage, usually caused by parts compatibility issues, but can happen with damage, like a collapsed buffer bumper. I doubt you have a problem, though. Also, I added a couple "ETA" above.
    Click to expand...
    This pic is as far back as the bolt will go. Without the plastic. Bottomed out buffer on the tube. My AR 15 is identical and bottomed out as well

    This to me looks correct?
    IMG_6751.jpeg

    This is where it stopped before with the bolt pushed in the BCG
    IMG_6744.jpeg
     
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    #17
    hafejd30 said:
    Right as long as the bolt catch for the empty mag is supposed to lock against the bolt face like my AR 15 does then the plastic piece definitely isn’t supposed to be there. Because even without the spring and bolt back in the BCG which it wouldn’t be like that in the gun it still won’t function
    Click to expand...
    It will be exactly like your AR15. The only difference is the RE (buffer tube) is a bit longer to allow room for the longer large frame bolt. The spacer that shouldn’t have been in there basically showed you what would happen if you had a standerd AR15 length RE installed. No bueno. You look good to go now that the spacer is removed.
     
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    #18
    wade2big said:
    It will be exactly like your AR15. The only difference is the RE (buffer tube) is a bit longer to allow room for the longer large frame bolt. The spacer that shouldn’t have been in there basically showed you what would happen if you had a standerd AR15 length RE installed. No bueno. You look good to go now that the spacer is removed.
    Click to expand...
    Thank you

    I’ll definitely have a barrel on next time. That was a $150 lesson learned haha
     
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    #19
    Seems good to go now but end of day as long as the bolt locks up with the barrel you’ll be fine. LMTs shoot great without tinkering but once people tinker, it usually leads to problems.

    Not saying you should have bought mine…but I might be 😂 I kid, I kid. Sorry you’re dealing with this man.

    🍻
     
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    #20
    M8541Reaper said:
    Seems good to go now but end of day as long as the bolt locks up with the barrel you’ll be fine. LMTs shoot great without tinkering but once people tinker, it usually leads to problems.

    Not saying you should have bought mine…but I might be 😂 I kid, I kid. Sorry you’re dealing with this man.

    🍻
    Click to expand...
    Haha it’s all good. I just don’t play with AR’s enough to know the secrets to making them work. I have what I’d call basic AR knowledge and AR10’s are another animal. Which is why I went factory

    To avoid any issues haha 🤣
     
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    #21
    hafejd30 said:
    Haha it’s all good. I just don’t play with AR’s enough to know the secrets to making them work. I have what I’d call basic AR knowledge and AR10’s are another animal. Which is why I went factory

    To avoid any issues haha 🤣
    Click to expand...
    Takes a lot to drive a heavy gasser really well for most, but once you get the run of it, it’s the same as running a small frame.

    Trust me, any factory LMT barrel you get will shoot really well. I haven’t grabbed anything from D Wilson but LMT directs customers to them if they need barrels faster than the LMT release schedule. So I’m sure they’re good.
     
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    #22
    Oh and I highly recommend a hood trigger, like an SSA-E trigger. Solid reliable AR trigger and lightyears ahead of the LMT euro/axle trigger.
     
    #23
    M8541Reaper said:
    Takes a lot to drive a heavy gasser really well for most, but once you get the run of it, it’s the same as running a small frame.

    Trust me, any factory LMT barrel you get will shoot really well. I haven’t grabbed anything from D Wilson but LMT directs customers to them if they need barrels faster than the LMT release schedule. So I’m sure they’re good.
    Click to expand...
    Picked up a 16” CL to burn up some hunting ammo.

    My next one will be a precision setup. 18” or 20” most likely
     
    #25
    Ok Brother if your in SW Florida just come by and I will get it running for you. If not
    Well This is a parts gun built by someone else of mixed parts. Not bad to do if it’s the right parts

    On AR10 type there are multiple length buffer tubes that require different buffers. Some use standard AR15 carbine buffers and some require the shorter AR10 version. The AR10’s using AR15 carbine buffer tubes need shorter buffers because the BCg is longer

    That white piece of plastic needs to go. Not sure how it got there but it would cause the problem

    Now if it was me I would just order measure the buffer tube and see what length it is. Then order new buffer and spring for that set up. Most likely that fixes the problem

    If you need further help DM me for my phone number
     
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    #26
    MikeMiller said:
    Ok Brother if your in SW Florida just come by and I will get it running for you. If not
    Well This is a parts gun built by someone else of mixed parts. Not bad to do if it’s the right parts

    On AR10 type there are multiple length buffer tubes that require different buffers. Some use standard AR15 carbine buffers and some require the shorter AR10 version. The AR10’s using AR15 carbine buffer tubes need shorter buffers because the BCg is longer

    That white piece of plastic needs to go. Not sure how it got there but it would cause the problem

    Now if it was me I would just order measure the buffer tube and see what length it is. Then order new buffer and spring for that set up. Most likely that fixes the problem

    If you need further help DM me for my phone number
    Click to expand...
    This is the lmt mws dmr rifle. I’m just assuming the other guy put the JP or something in it. Then put original parts back in when he sold it. Waiting to hear back from him. But this is a factory rifle to my knowledge

    If someone has the dmr setup and could measure measure the tube that be appreciated. I believe this is the factory setup in the gun currently with the H3 buffer
     
    Last edited:
    #28
    MikeMiller said:
    Then just removing that plastic piece should fix it
    Click to expand...
    I’m confirming with the prior owner. It seems this is the original parts but I’ll see what he switched. At this point I’m thinking just the buffer was swapped to JP. He had a really nice 16” Bartlein setup on it before. So it make sense to put the extra money into the JP system as well. We’ll see what he says
     
    #30
    BCP said:
    Yeah that spacer was your problem. Maybe he was using a stubby carbine buffer instead of the AR15 one. I think they use an armalite setup so it's a longer carbine tube vs AR15 size with a regular ar15 buffer.
    Click to expand...
    I’m not home currently. The stock is the DMR. The buffer is shown above at 3 1/4” or about that.

    What’s the tube length supposed to be on this? That tell me if it’s all good I think
     
    #35
    Thanks for the guys who helped my journey along with the lmt

    Fired the 16” with some hunting ammo (150 SST Fiocchi) today

    About 1.5 moa with that at 100 which is acceptable for the 16 CL with just a Burris E1 on it currently and the Fiocchi

    The best part is it functioned without a hiccup

    Piled the brass between 3 and 4 o’clock and about 3 feet to my right

    Running the Slash XH buffer and Rifle spring
    IMG_6908.jpeg

    IMG_6910.jpeg
    IMG_6909.jpeg
     
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