More Police Radio Communications Will Be Encrypted

Longshot231 · Aug 10, 2024

I am sort of a fence-sitter on this subject. For security, safety and privacy reasons there is a need for encryption. However, I fear that there will be a loss of transparency with some departments and some bad actors will say and do some bad things with encrypted communications to hide their misdeeds.

Like I said, I'm on the fence about this but one needs to be careful for what they wish for. Does anyone remember the Patriot Act and FISA?

When you are watching the videos and reading the articles, keep in mind that it is illegal to encrypt HAM, GMRS and FRS radio communications.

Although some proposals have called for media access to audio files after the fact, that could take a very long time and with communications heavily redacted to the point that there is absolutely no transparency. And if media access were permitted some proposals call for legal agreements that media would have to sign that exposes them to all sort of legal minefields.

Police Are Increasingly Encrypting Their Radios to Block Scrutiny by Journalists

Press advocates say that the surge in encryption is a reaction to the demand for police accountability after 2020.

truthout.org

Law enforcement encrypting radio transmissions to protect privacy

Sensitive details such as names, social security numbers, addresses and criminal and medical histories will no longer be heard over scanners.

www.kwch.com

As More Police Radio Communications Become Encrypted, Senate Deputy Leader Gianaris Announces “Keep Police Radio Public Act” To Preserve Media, Public Access To Law Enforcement Radio Chatter

NEW YORK, N.Y. – Senate Deputy Leader Michael Gianaris announced new legislation, the “Keep Police Radio Public Act”, which would require law enforcement agencies, including the NYPD, to preserve access to their radio communications for the press, volunteer first responders, and members of the...

www.nysenate.gov

https://reason.com/2023/11/22/nypd-will-spend-nearly-400-million-to-hide-its-radio-communications/

https://www.amny.com/news/city-council-nypd-radio-encryption-hearing-planned/

This is NPR so take it for what it's worth but some interesting points are raised in the radio broadcast embedded in the article.

Police are encrypting scanners across the country. Here's why

After decades of news outlets and the public listening to police scanners, law enforcement officials across the country are cutting off access.

www.interlochenpublicradio.org

TexPatriot · Aug 10, 2024

The timing is right.

It's for officer safety and mission security.

Sean the Nailer · Aug 10, 2024

What's good for the goose.....

Franko · Aug 11, 2024

Radio transmissions are going to be encrypted and it will be sold as an officer safety issue. Transmissions should be recorded and available for oversight purposes but will only be available when they benefit law enforcement, anything particularly embarrassing is just going to get "lost".

clcustom1911 · Aug 11, 2024

I'm on the fence, but lean towards encryption. Police put a lot of people's personal info over the radio waves: driver license info, addressesz etc. There was a few times over my 10 years doing cop shit and some random person would arrive on scene way too quick and they were like "I was listening to the scanner and wanted to see this for myself."

It was very unnerving every time. My job was one thing, but other people going through extremely difficult life events shouldn't be unnecessarily exposed to Karen's or Mrs. Kravitz.

Sean the Nailer · Aug 11, 2024

clcustom1911 said:
I'm on the fence, but lean towards encryption. Police put a lot of people's personal info over the radio waves: driver license info, addressesz etc. There was a few times over my 10 years doing cop shit and some random person would arrive on scene way too quick and they were like "I was listening to the scanner and wanted to see this for myself."

It was very unnerving every time. My job was one thing, but other people going through extremely difficult life events shouldn't be unnecessarily exposed to Karen's or Mrs. Kravitz.

I like the vast majority of what you're saying. For the most part, it makes perfect sense.

At the same time, we too, as "private citizens" should be able to enjoy the same freedoms, no? Same abilities? I'm not in any way saying that I/we/the public have a "Right" to know all of everyone's business. Not At All.

What I AM saying is, we too deserve the Right to privacy and should have the ability to encrypt, too.

clcustom1911 · Aug 11, 2024

Sean the Nailer said:
I like the vast majority of what you're saying. For the most part, it makes perfect sense.

At the same time, we too, as "private citizens" should be able to enjoy the same freedoms, no? Same abilities? I'm not in any way saying that I/we/the public have a "Right" to know all of everyone's business. Not At All.

What I AM saying is, we too deserve the Right to privacy and should have the ability to encrypt, too.

I think private citizen should be able to encrypt their shit too. 100%.

It's only illegal if you get caught

AES 256 bit encryption on my $95 Motorola XTS5000 would tough one to crack as long as you have a good radio guy

WaltHer · Aug 11, 2024

Private citizens can encrypt radio traffic on properly licensed frequencies. Consider applying for a business band license similar to what public safety agencies do. It's a total pain in the ass but doable. The FCC's primitive website is the hardest part.

atomic41 · Aug 11, 2024

clcustom1911 said:
I'm on the fence, but lean towards encryption. Police put a lot of people's personal info over the radio waves: driver license info, addressesz etc. There was a few times over my 10 years doing cop shit and some random person would arrive on scene way too quick and they were like "I was listening to the scanner and wanted to see this for myself."

It was very unnerving every time. My job was one thing, but other people going through extremely difficult life events shouldn't be unnecessarily exposed to Karen's or Mrs. Kravitz.

I'm with you on that and can see two sides of the debate. There are some good reasons to have access, it allows people to get the truth about incidents that the news will not tell or that police coverup. I'm referring to major incidents that go down and what can be learned by going online and finding live feeds of the local channels and sometimes you can even find a feed to the tactical channel. A couple examples that I've personally heard:

During the standoff with the cop killer Dorner in the San Bernardino mountains, I was listening to the sheriff dept. tactical channel and watching a live tv feed from a news helicopter at the same time. I heard an officer say, "send in the burner". Just a few moments later, the news helicopter showed smoke coming from the cabin that Dorner was holed up in. Then the official news story was, "we sent in teargas and it must have accidentally burned down the cabin, oopsie!".

During St Louis riots, you could hear the fire dept. distress calls as they were being shot at by thugs. There were also thugs rolling around in the bed of pickups shooting at everyone in sight, all this happening while the news thugs stood around saying, "mostly peaceful protests". Many more examples, this is just a couple.

Related: you can also get a lot of info watching the streaming feeds from people with cameras on the ground. Unicorn riot used to be good for that, they are a communist media group that walks around documenting stuff that the news tells you is not happening. Seeing stuff happen from the brown shirt's POV as they destroy communities is the only way to really see what they are doing. Although they have become smarter and they now try to hide what their comrades are doing but many of the big riots a few years ago were well documented by them and I learned alot about their commie tactics.

I've heard many more things like this as I like to tune in to those situations. Sometimes it's the only way to get the truth.

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2024

I worked for Motorola in the early 2000's as a PM building out public safety radio systems and we were routinely selling encryption in our handsets.

Longshot231 · Aug 11, 2024

clcustom1911 said:
I think private citizen should be able to encrypt their shit too. 100%.

It's only illegal if you get caught AES 256 bit encryption on my $95 Motorola XTS5000 would tough one to crack as long as you have a good radio guy

Baron23 said:
I worked for Motorola in the early 2000's as a PM building out public safety radio systems and we were routinely selling encryption in our handsets.

I was reading some information on other radio forums about the Motorola and was even more confused than before.

Does the private use of the encryption features on the XTS5000 require a license or not? If not, then how does Motorola and the ordinary citizen get around the law on encrypted communications?

brianf · Aug 11, 2024

clcustom1911 said:
I'm on the fence, but lean towards encryption. Police put a lot of people's personal info over the radio waves: driver license info, addressesz etc. There was a few times over my 10 years doing cop shit and some random person would arrive on scene way too quick and they were like "I was listening to the scanner and wanted to see this for myself."

It was very unnerving every time. My job was one thing, but other people going through extremely difficult life events shouldn't be unnecessarily exposed to Karen's or Mrs. Kravitz.

Like most things there are 2 sides

But it’s funny how most people (especially conservatives) are don’t tread on me and keep you business to yourself.

But then they will complain when comms are encrypted securing the same information.

“I can’t tell what’s happening on my scanner anymore”…umm that’s what you preach isn’t it?

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2024

Longshot231 said:
I was reading some information on other radio forums about the Motorola and was even more confused than before.

Does the private use of the encryption features on the XTS5000 require a license or not? If not, then how does Motorola and the ordinary citizen get around the law on encrypted communications?

Dunno....we only sold to Fed, State, and Local agencies. No idea about civilians but I suspect we did not sell them to anyone outside of the government agencies.

And, this was over 20 years ago...no idea what they do now.

Just as an aside, I built some radio systems for a government agency that chose (well, one guy chose them) E.F. Johnson for handsets as they were cheaper....and it turned out that was for a reason. He regretted his decision as the failed units piled up. You could drive nails with a Moto handset and it would still work. Again, ancient history.

Slash0311 · Aug 11, 2024

I could care less if they go encrypted.

I know in my area, we had a few bad guys that would scan and wait for something to kick off. (Big accident, pursuit, etc) then would go break into stores and hit a pharmacy once. All based off listening to the radio.

To be honest, most officers in my area now have computers in vehicles so the need to put personal info out on the radio has reduced but there are times like accidents or times sensitive investigations where personal info still gets put out.

So just like everything, there is good and bad with it.

Ruff 364 · Aug 11, 2024

So what? It's all recorded and can be had with a FOIA request.

You don't need real time access.

Gunfighter14e2 · Aug 11, 2024

Ruff 364 said:
You don't need real time access.

Would that not depend on the game in flux? What if you had access to their comms?

lonegunman762x51 · Aug 11, 2024

In a police state the two goals are to protect the police and protect the state. Your life, family, property and safety are not the primary concern.

Ask Donald Trump if the Secret Service used their encrypted radios to protect him from Bidens assassin.

They sure as hell don't need you snooping.

NoDopes · Aug 11, 2024

brianf said:
But then they will complain when comms are encrypted securing the same information.

Difference between private citizens and government employees on taxpayer funding exercising their qualified immunity to run roughshod all over said citizens.

Ruff 364 said:
So what? It's all recorded and can be had with a FOIA request.

You don't need real time access.

How did that work out for the trans shooter in Tennessee? Government decided they didn't like the optics of the truth so they just refused. You think the would release something that showed their own illegal actions? Those comms would go 'missing' faster than Ukrainian pallets of cash aid.

Fuck, Dallas police chief said they would not release police reports of officer involved shooting for 3 days after an incident where a cop murdered a guy in cold blood, filed a false report, then citizen video came out showing the truth of the murder.

rlsmith1 · Aug 11, 2024

I’m sure police comms will be recorded, retained, and kept for us to request access to for transparency down the road.

Police (and other elected officials) are civil servants that should not have rights above and beyond the citizens.

The citizens have been stripped of so many rights already that simply having an encrypted radio is ok for thee but not for me

clcustom1911 · Aug 11, 2024

Longshot231 said:
I was reading some information on other radio forums about the Motorola and was even more confused than before.

Does the private use of the encryption features on the XTS5000 require a license or not? If not, then how does Motorola and the ordinary citizen get around the law on encrypted communications?

You need a proper model XTS and find the encryption chip, install the chip, then have the software and knowledge to program everything.

Hint: it's best you aren't the only one with your encryption key. Gotta have friends using the same key. Otherwise go with no encryption. But also, any radio transmission and be found via directional finding eventually, encrypted or not.

Makinchips208 · Aug 11, 2024

Guys, you can scan the entire frequency band.
You can determine the direction the signal came from.
You can record what you want.
Some stuff can be decrypted.
You can install rf detectors.
You can jam portions of the radio spectrum.
And more! Be creative.
(for entertainment purposes only)

Makinchips208 · Aug 11, 2024

I think if ‘law enforcement’ is using this with taxpayer money, then every private citizen should also do the same.

On a side note, if you have walkie talkies from Walmart. Then chances are you have communication that is won’t be heard by law enforcement.

If you use field programmable radios like a baofeng or yaesu (not Motorola), then your group can easily hop around to different frequencies and not a single person in a large police department would hear you, unless they had a similar personal radio and could follow or find you, also unlikely.

Do police monitor cb anymore?

Do police monitor the Walmart bubble pack walkie talkies? Frs, gmrs, or murs etc.

So if you apply a little effort then encryption isn’t even needed and can be a massive hindrance to grassroots type cooperation.

Gunfighter14e2 · Aug 11, 2024

Encryption = there is shit here we don't what you to hear/know.
Open conversations done properly don't mean shit to anyone except those with in that circle. ie

brianf · Aug 11, 2024

Lots of tin foil round these parts

oneshot86 · Aug 11, 2024

Give them an inch, they will take a yard.
Unfortunately, you can't give them that inch.

DOA · Aug 11, 2024

Ruff 364 said:
So what? It's all recorded and can be had with a FOIA request.

You don't need real time access.

Its obvious you dont have a clue on the time it takes to get anything back after a FOIA request

Makinchips208 · Aug 12, 2024

If you guys want encrypted comms, that I’m sure the alphabet agencies can’t crack, then head on over to the following thread to follow and get when the getting gets good.

Accessories - Blackberry-esque; Off-grid encrypted messaging devices

Scammer lookout: I have not asked anyone for payment. We don't want this listing to get shutdown and riddled by scammers that are using my username with no feedback. 👍 Have a few blackberry form factor, off grid Lora mesh network encrypted messaging devices I've built. Which can have...

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