Do I need more than 20MOA elevation with common scopes at 1 mile on 6.5PRC

yo-yo · Aug 11, 2024

Hi all -

I found one thread similar on this topic, but I had trouble understanding some of the conversation. I just purchased a Savage 110 Elite Precision 6.5CM and I plan to swap the barrel and bolt face to shoot 6.5 PRC instead. My goal is to be able to shoot 1 mile.

I want to purchase a scope with a budget under $1000. I've been reading about how some of these smaller calibers may require additional "elevation" for the scope, in order to make enough adjustment at that distance, with a 6.5 PRC cartridge.

The gun appears to have a bolt-on 20MOA picatinny rail. I looked around and I didn't find a lot for replacement rails, except a Murphy Precision rail that is pretty pricey by itself. I also know I can get some adjustability on the scope mount. I'm looking at the ARC M-Mount scope mount. It looks like those can be purchased with some additional elevation built in too.

My question is...how can I get some 6.5 PRC data to help me determine if I need more than the 20MOA in the built in rail, along with the adjustability the scope already has?

Some of the scopes I'm looking at say they have 20mil of elevation adjustment, some say 25mil, some say up to 30mil.

What is the best way for me to choose the best scope and mount to work with my existing 20MOA rail?

Thanks for any insight you can offer!

W54/XM-388 · Aug 11, 2024

Being that its a Savage, have you checked what the price would be to just buy a 6.5 PRC instead of all that swapping out of parts and such?

yo-yo · Aug 11, 2024

W54/XM-388 said:
Being that its a Savage, have you checked what the price would be to just buy a 6.5 PRC instead of all that swapping out of parts and such?

Yeah, Savage doesn’t make this rifle in 6.5 PRC for some reason. That’s why I’m doing it. I acquired a 6.5CM for a very good price, so I think it’s the most cost effective way.

Nik H · Aug 11, 2024

yo-yo said:
Hi all -

I found one thread similar on this topic, but I had trouble understanding some of the conversation. I just purchased a Savage 110 Elite Precision 6.5CM and I plan to swap the barrel and bolt face to shoot 6.5 PRC instead. My goal is to be able to shoot 1 mile.

I want to purchase a scope with a budget under $1000. I've been reading about how some of these smaller calibers may require additional "elevation" for the scope, in order to make enough adjustment at that distance, with a 6.5 PRC cartridge.

The gun appears to have a bolt-on 20MOA picatinny rail. I looked around and I didn't find a lot for replacement rails, except a Murphy Precision rail that is pretty pricey by itself. I also know I can get some adjustability on the scope mount. I'm looking at the ARC M-Mount scope mount. It looks like those can be purchased with some additional elevation built in too.

My question is...how can I get some 6.5 PRC data to help me determine if I need more than the 20MOA in the built in rail, along with the adjustability the scope already has?

Some of the scopes I'm looking at say they have 20mil of elevation adjustment, some say 25mil, some say up to 30mil.

What is the best way for me to choose the best scope and mount to work with my existing 20MOA rail?

Thanks for any insight you can offer!

Go to JBM Ballistics

Enter all of the parameters for the 6.5 PRC and all other information. Pick MIL for the units. Click on the calculate button.

You'll get a table of elevation corrections necessary for 6.5 PRC. Set the range for 100 to 2000 yards in 25-yard steps.

Read the value at 1,750 yards (1767 is a mile). This is your ballistic data.

Take 1/2 of the stated elevation adjustment (in mils)for your scope. Add 6 mils to it. This is your available scope correction based on your rail. It will actually be a little less than this.

Subtract the required correction from the available scope correction. If it is negative, that is the amount of extra you need in your mount.

Slides · Aug 11, 2024

Safest bet is to buy a 20MOA unimount, I have successfully used the cheap Athlon armor mounts on several rifles, 40MOA In the mounting assembly should still let you zero at 100 yards even with cheaper 30mm tube 30 power peak magnification scopes while giving you the vast majority of the internal elevation range. With a lower magnification scope/larger tube you could use a 30moa mount. Getting the scope up higher will give better ergonomics too.

FuhQ · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Yeah, Savage doesn’t make this rifle in 6.5 PRC for some reason. That’s why I’m doing it. I acquired a 6.5CM for a very good price, so I think it’s the most cost effective way.

Why does it have to be a Savage? You can build a 6.5PRC on a Solus action with a nice custom prefit for like $1,500 for a barreled action from PVA...

Solus Barreled Action

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

Or, you can buy a barreled action straight from Aero for $1,250.

SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 PRC, Sendero Light Fluted

Shop SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 PRC, Sendero Light Fluted and more at AeroPrecisionUSA.com!

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

Any of which would be exponentially better than a Savage action.

Im2bent · Aug 12, 2024

So if you were shooting Hornady match 147 eld-m looks like 2910 fps and .697g1 so 19.4 mils at a mile . Of course that is at standard conditions and there are a ton of variables. Just reread your op this time actually comprehending all the words. Your 20 moa rail will be fine.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

Nik H said:
Go to JBM Ballistics

Enter all of the parameters for the 6.5 PRC and all other information. Pick MIL for the units. Click on the calculate button.

You'll get a table of elevation corrections necessary for 6.5 PRC. Set the range for 100 to 2000 yards in 25-yard steps.

Read the value at 1,750 yards (1767 is a mile). This is your ballistic data.

Take 1/2 of the stated elevation adjustment (in mils)for your scope. Add 6 mils to it. This is your available scope correction based on your rail. It will actually be a little less than this.

Subtract the required correction from the available scope correction. If it is negative, that is the amount of extra you need in your mount.

Thanks! Yeah, I finally digested this and was able to do that math. Here's a question...is there a strategy to adjusting the scope elevation turret a bit so that the zero stop is closer to the bottom of the adjustment range, so I could get a little bit more upward adjustment?

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

FuhQ said:
Why does it have to be a Savage? You can build a 6.5PRC on a Solus action with a nice custom prefit for like $1,500 for a barreled action from PVA...

Solus Barreled Action

[email protected]

patriotvalleyarms.com

Or, you can buy a barreled action straight from Aero for $1,250.

SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 PRC, Sendero Light Fluted

Shop SOLUS Barreled Short Action - 24" 6.5 PRC, Sendero Light Fluted and more at AeroPrecisionUSA.com!

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

Any of which would be exponentially better than a Savage action.

Thanks for the thought. Yeah, my budget isn't high enough to build a completely custom rifle, sadly. I picked up the entire Elite Precision 6.5CM for about $1000. The MDT chassis is $1300 too, if you want to buy that separately, though I did find a used one for $1000. Swapping the barrel and the bolt face from the Savage, seemed like the most affordable route for me. I don't really have any experience with any other guns yet either, so I thought this was the best way to get started and learn.

Nik H · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Thanks! Yeah, I finally digested this and was able to do that math. Here's a question...is there a strategy to adjusting the scope elevation turret a bit so that the zero stop is closer to the bottom of the adjustment range, so I could get a little bit more upward adjustment?

Increase the cant in your rail or buy a mount with cant.

The more cant you add the closer you can place your turret towards the bottom and use more of the adjustment range. However, you can't go too far or you will not be able to zero at 100 yards.

I run a 30 MOA rail on my AXMC with no cant in the mount. It gets me to where I need to be. Some use a combined 40 MOA between rail and mount.

FuhQ · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Thanks for the thought. Yeah, my budget isn't high enough to build a completely custom rifle, sadly. I picked up the entire Elite Precision 6.5CM for about $1000. The MDT chassis is $1300 too, if you want to buy that separately, though I did find a used one for $1000. Swapping the barrel and the bolt face from the Savage, seemed like the most affordable route for me. I don't really have any experience with any other guns yet either, so I thought this was the best way to get started and learn.

Sell the savage for what you paid for it. And put that $1,000 along with money you would have spent on a $1,300 chassis + bolt head + barrel, and just put it into a Solus barreled action from PVA. You’ll be WAY ahead of a Savage, or any other factory action out there. Plus, the Solus uses a 700 footprint, so all the 700 stock & chassis options out there will fit it. It’s already factory cut for running AICS & AW mags. 3-lug bolt vs. 2 on the savage. 60° bolt throw versus 90° For the savage. Integrated 20 MOA rail on top. Takes 700 clone triggers (without the bolt release). And it has interchangeable bolt heads as well. Plus, you can buy shouldered prefits for it.

Slides · Aug 12, 2024

Im2bent said:
So if you were shooting Hornady match 147 eld-m looks like 2910 fps and .697g1 so 19.4 mils at a mile . Of course that is at standard conditions and there are a ton of variables. Just reread your op this time actually comprehending all the words. Your 20 moa rail will be fine.

Every chance that's off full elevation travel and a 10mil FFP recticle on most 30mm tube scopes. A 20MOA rail only puts you just off centre of adjustment range.

tarheel7734 · Aug 12, 2024

I'm only at 22.5 mils elevation @1760 yards with my 6.5 creed.

You don't have to have a 6.5 prc to shoot out to a mile.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

FuhQ said:
Sell the savage for what you paid for it. And put that $1,000 along with money you would have spent on a $1,300 chassis + bolt head + barrel, and just put it into a Solus barreled action from PVA. You’ll be WAY ahead of a Savage, or any other factory action out there. Plus, the Solus uses a 700 footprint, so all the 700 stock & chassis options out there will fit it. It’s already factory cut for running AICS & AW mags. 3-lug bolt vs. 2 on the savage. 60° bolt throw versus 90° For the savage. Integrated 20 MOA rail on top. Takes 700 clone triggers (without the bolt release). And it has interchangeable bolt heads as well. Plus, you can buy shouldered prefits for it.

Perhaps something I can look into down the road. The Savage came complete with the chassis and muzzle brake for $1000. I figured this was my best bet to get started within the budget. This is my first gun, other than the peashooter my great aunt left for me. I'm familiar with the concept of custom builds (I build custom cars), so I had some ability to consider that route, but I found it difficult to get good information on component compatibility. Savage seemed to be a good source for a company that is putting together decent components at a reasonable cost, and I learned A LOT from the idea of using their rifle as a base, and swapping components to/from their guns.

Thank you for the info on Solus though! I do like the Solus barrelled actions. Would be nice to have 60deg rather than 90deg. Looks like about $1350 from PVA with a trigger. Looks like MDT does make a chassis that fits it too. So, about $2600 would get it complete. I will probably spend another $500 on a new barrel and bolt face converting this to PRC. I don't know if I'm experienced enough to benefit from the additional cost into a full custom setup with that action, but I'll certainly consider it.

I will probably shoot the 6.5CM a bit, until I'm pretty solid at 1200 yards, and then consider my move to PRC. I'm actually curious if I can get to 1 mile with the 6.5CM. Some say they are doing that.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

Nik H said:
Increase the cant in your rail or buy a mount with cant.

The more cant you add the closer you can place your turret towards the bottom and use more of the adjustment range. However, you can't go too far or you will not be able to zero at 100 yards.

I run a 30 MOA rail on my AXMC with no cant in the mount. It gets me to where I need to be. Some use a combined 40 MOA between rail and mount.

Thanks for the info! Yeah, this is exactly what I'm trying to figure out....what affects the position of the zero-center (at 100 yards) on the turret's travel range? Most people suggest they are pretty close to the center of that travel range, when zero'd (assuming at 100
yards, but people don't always confirm that distance).

Is it primarily the amount of cant the scopes sits at, on the action (from rail, scope mount, and all other sources)? It seems to me, the other half of the travel in the turret is simply lost, if one can't use the lower half of the travel. I wonder what the point of this is?

Also, there is some discrepancy on the Vortex Viper PST line and the Strike Eagle models. Something about how the Strike Eagle has the markets 30mil of travel, but their new Rev-Stop zero system sucks up some of that AND perhaps they are now marketing full travel on the turret, vs. elevation travel "up". The Viper PST line markets as little as 19mil. ??

I watched videos on how the two different scopes are working, and I can't discern the difference in the marketed elevation adjustments each one markets having.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

tarheel7734 said:
I'm only at 22.5 mils elevation @1760 yards with my 6.5 creed.

You don't have to have a 6.5 prc to shoot out to a mile.

Oh, wow. That is interesting. I didn't think the CM could reach that far, accurately. Are you using hybrid case loads, or are you managing the transonic speeds well somehow?

tarheel7734 · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Oh, wow. That is interesting. I didn't think the CM could reach that far, accurately. Are you using hybrid case loads, or are you managing the transonic speeds well somehow?

Factory ammo. Hirnady 147 mostly, but I do shoot 140 hirnady and 140 aac and 140 smk from aac.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

Im2bent said:
So if you were shooting Hornady match 147 eld-m looks like 2910 fps and .697g1 so 19.4 mils at a mile . Of course that is at standard conditions and there are a ton of variables. Just reread your op this time actually comprehending all the words. Your 20 moa rail will be fine.

Thanks! Yeah, so here is the issue...the scope manufacturers (that I'm looking at) are suggesting Max Elevation adjustments of 19mrad, 20mrad, and 31mrad. Does that mean "total" travel, or I can get that much travel above my 100-yard zero? Apparently there is some discrepancy with the Vortex Strike Eagle marketing 31mrad, compared to their other scopes (19mrad, 20mrad). Is the Strike Eagle really only about one half of that amount above the 100-yard zero, and the other two scopes are more accurately marketing the 19 and 21mrads above the 100-yard zero? Not sure what is happening here. Also, Vortex says you "loose" a little travel on the Strike Eagle because of their new Rev-Stop zero-stop system. Not sure what that is about yet.

tarheel7734 · Aug 12, 2024

Doses your rifle have a 20moa optics mount?

Edit Looked it up and it does.. this will help you with your total elevation. It should give you about 5 to 6 mils of elevation back when you zero your scope.

MO Fugga · Aug 12, 2024

I have a strike eagle with 20 on the rail. Up 23.3 for a mile, but it's 300wm.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

MO Fugga said:
I have a strike eagle with 20 on the rail. Up 23.3 for a mile, but it's 300wm.

Thanks! I just talked with Vortex on the phone. I was trying to determine how much actual "up" adjustment I may get with that Rev-Stop zero-stop system. They weren't certain, but I also read somewhere that people are suggesting they lose about 5mil from the advertised 31mil "total" adjustment. So, not sure if that makes it 26mil, divided by 2 for upward adjustment of 13mil? Or, if the 5 mil comes off the upward adjustment, after the total range divided by 2 (31/3=15.5, then subtract the 5mil to get 10.5).

My ballistic chart, for an average CM shows me about 24 mils. That's pushing velocity near transonic. Looks like I will likely need another 20MOA (6mil) cant on the scope mount. I think that might be the best way to get me there, rather than swapping the rail on the action. Looks I did find some other rail manufacturers, and they are more affordable (less than $85), but I don't see 30/40 MOA options.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

tarheel7734 said:
Doses your rifle have a 20moa optics mount?

Edit Looked it up and it does.. this will help you with your total elevation. It should give you about 5 to 6 mils of elevation back when you zero your scope.

Yes, it does, but ballistic charts are suggesting I may need about 24mil upward adjustment. Even with my 6mil rail (20MOA), that leaves a need for about 18mil more. That’s more than most of the advertised adjustment of scopes in my budget range. Even the Viper PST with 30mm tubes only offer about 20mm total adjustment. The Strike Eagle is 34mm and offers 31mil (total), but the zero stop system consumes an estimated amount of about 5 (still not sure catchy how much “upward is leftover). Best case scenario, I get 13 mil left over. Even in that case, I need another 5mil. That basically another 20MOA somewhere, so likely to have to come from the mount. Just hope there’s enough for a 100-yard zero.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

MO Fugga said:
I have a strike eagle with 20 on the rail. Up 23.3 for a mile, but it's 300wm.

Are you able to get the full 23.3mil upward adjustment with that scope? How much total cant do you have?

MO Fugga · Aug 12, 2024

Yes, and 20moa total, just the rail. And I don't use the zero stop. That takes a bit out. It's too thick, IMO.

FimRire RongLifle · Aug 12, 2024

A viper pst 2 on a 20moa moa rail will typically have 17mil up 'remaining'. Don't discount your reticle either that's worth 10mil easy.
Do you have a creed besides the prc project? Do you reload? Prc has definitely been a reloaders cart for me compared to creed.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

MO Fugga said:
Yes, and 20moa total, just the rail. And I don't use the zero stop. That takes a bit out. It's too thick, IMO.

Gotcha! Makes sense. Yeah, I was planning to retain the zero-stop, but Vortex did suggest I could ditch it and likely get the full amount of adjustment I needed.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

FimRire RongLifle said:
A viper pst 2 on a 20moa moa rail will typically have 17mil up 'remaining'. Don't discount your reticle either that's worth 10mil easy.
Do you have a creed besides the prc project? Do you reload? Prc has definitely been a reloaders cart for me compared to creed.

Wow! Really? Interesting. That means the scope itself, after being sited in, has 17mil of the total 20mil advertised elevation sweep still available? Technically, the 20MOA on the rail doesn't change the typical 50% of advertised elevation adjustment on the scope itself, does it? I was thinking the PST would be able to offer 10mil up (50% of advertised), and then you would need to add any more from a rail mount and/or additional scope mounts. 20MOA (gives me another ~6mil). That would get me to a total of 16 mil. Then, I'm still about 8mil short.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

FimRire RongLifle said:
Don't discount your reticle either that's worth 10mil easy.
Do you have a creed besides the prc project? Do you reload? Prc has definitely been a reloaders cart for me compared to creed.

I'm such a rookie, that I thought I might like to not have to use the hold over in the reticle. I don't have another CM, besides the project to convert to PRC. I am prepared to reload though. I have access to the whole setup and my friend's house. I just need the dies. Are you saying you have enjoyed reloading the PRC, compared to the CM?

FimRire RongLifle · Aug 12, 2024

well the answer it depends on the rifle and what it needs for 100yard zero for the particular cart. I have 17.5 currently (left up) on a terminus zues with 20 moa rail and 1.75" (too low cant wait to change that but i digress) optic over bore height with 223 shooting 75gr at 2900fps.
SO I can get 27mils easy with my reticle with hold over no problem.

Lots of factors here
moa of rail
optic center distance over bore
cartridge, conditions etc for zero.

makes it difficult to calc number of clicks of the bottom a scope needs to be a 100 yard zero.

Im saying I had to handloading PRC for good results, decent match creed seems to be purchaseable (not as good as handloading but better outcomes then factory match PRC ammo. Just the experience I had.

Its a fun cart but inside 1k-1200y its just kinda spendy to hunt steel. Ive used mine to 2K and it can probably keep going but i am into shooting larger stuff now for mile+

MO Fugga · Aug 12, 2024

OP, there's a lot to be said about using your reticle at the extreme limits of adjustment, especially with budget scopes. Try to leave a little room if you can, and use holdover if you have to.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

FimRire RongLifle said:
well the answer it depends on the rifle and what it needs for 100yard zero for the particular cart. I have 17.5 currently (left up) on a terminus zues with 20 moa rail and 1.75" (too low cant wait to change that but i digress) optic over bore height with 223 shooting 75gr at 2900fps.
SO I can get 27mils easy with my reticle with hold over no problem.

Lots of factors here
moa of rail
optic center distance over bore
cartridge, conditions etc for zero.

makes it difficult to calc number of clicks of the bottom a scope needs to be a 100 yard zero.

Im saying I had to handloading PRC for good results, decent match creed seems to be purchaseable (not as good as handloading but better outcomes then factory match PRC ammo. Just the experience I had.

Its a fun cart but inside 1k-1200y its just kinda spendy to hunt steel. Ive used mine to 2K and it can probably keep going but i am into shooting larger stuff now for mile+

Gotcha. Thanks for the additional info. I think I'm going with this...
20 MOA on the rail on the action.
20 MOA on the scope mount
Strike Eagle 5-25x56 with 34mm 31mrad (estimated 25mrad effective after zero-stop)
ARC M-Brace Scope mount 32mm (1.26") - not sure exactly how where this will put the center of the scope and center of the barrel)
Shooting 6.5CM at first, and then swapping to PRC's.

I haven't studied the PRC rounds yet, but I'm estimating an additional 200-300fps which will make this easier, but readint that others are getting the 6.5CM to one mile makes me think I'll try to get that first, before making the swap.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

MO Fugga said:
OP, there's a lot to be said about using your reticle at the extreme limits of adjustment, especially with budget scopes. Try to leave a little room if you can, and use holdover if you have to.

Ok. Thanks. Appreciate that feedback. I'll try it both ways. At distance and at 100 yard-zero. This Strike Eagle could have more trouble than other scopes with better glass too.

Im2bent · Aug 12, 2024

The problem will be spotting impacts with a 6.5mm bullet at a mile. Splash will be minimal.

Slides · Aug 12, 2024

Using full recticle hold isn't ideal from a self spotting perspective either. If you have to buy mounting hardware it's silly not to buy a mount with an additional 20MOA cant.

UpSideDown · Aug 12, 2024

6.5 CM will get you to a mile.

Shooting a mile is an absolute pain in the butt for most people/places

If you’re serious about shooting 1 mile, then:
- get a 6.5 Creedmoor and learn to shoot well. You’ll probably drop the idea of shooting a mile because it isn’t nearly as cool or fun as it sounds

- if you still want to shoot a mile, your caliber selection should start at .338” so you can see your impacts. 6.5mm bullets just don’t displace enough earth on impact to make ranges like that easy to spot.

DeathBeforeDismount · Aug 12, 2024

No offense but this is like a guy who drove a mustang once saying he wants to build a car and go race the indy 500.

Unless you have a ton of LR experience, using shitty equipment combined with little to no skills/experience ( which we will assume based on the basic questions you are asking...you sound very new) you are going to be sorely disappointed.

You don't know what you don't know and your expectations probally need to be realistic. Half the people suggesting shit in here are no better and talking out their ass as well. You don't even own your own Reloading setup, so your ammo is almost guaranteed to be shit for this application.

Long range and ELR ( some people consider a mile ELR) you will live and die by your extreme spread. 6.5mm is also a horrible choice. Technically you can shoot to a mile with it under the right conditions( temp, da, ect) but good luck spotting or even seeing your splash. Even a 7mm can be very tough to spot at that range depending on conditions.

Not trying to po po the idea but it needed to be said before you buy a bunch of junk gear with these crazy expectations...I can almost guarantee you will be sorted disapointed.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
No offense but this is like a guy who drove a mustang once saying he wants to build a car and go race the indy 500.

Unless you have a ton of LR experience, using shitty equipment combined with little to no skills/experience ( which we will assume based on the basic questions you are asking...you sound very new) you are going to be sorely disappointed.

You don't know what you don't know and your expectations probally need to be realistic. Half the people suggesting shit in here are no better and talking out their ass as well. You don't even own your own Reloading setup, so your ammo is almost guaranteed to be shit for this application.

Long range and ELR ( some people consider a mile ELR) you will live and die by your extreme spread. 6.5mm is also a horrible choice. Technically you can shoot to a mile with it under the right conditions( temp, da, ect) but good luck spotting or even seeing your splash. Even a 7mm can be very tough to spot at that range depending on conditions.

Not trying to po po the idea but it needed to be said before you buy a bunch of junk gear with these crazy expectations...I can almost guarantee you will be sorted disapointed.

Funny! No offense taken. I don't have any expectations, other than to learn. This will be a fun journey and a learning process. I have to start somewhere. The goal is a mile, and I am already just happy at 200 yards. We can shoot up to about 500 yards at the house here, and other family property about 100 miles away, allows for an easy one mile, and probably a bit over 2000 yards.

The plan is simply to shoot the Creedmoor for now. See how I do. If it's too challenging for the equipment, I will push up to the PRC. That gives me the best bang for the buck right now, on a limited budget and gets me shooting. I can afford to feed both of those rounds. We also have a 338 lapua in the family, that I can shoot, so I won't have to buy a new gun for that...so that's good.
Right now, I'd rather not shoot it a lot, simply due to the costs.

I will learn to reload. My friend next door, has all the equipment, and I will grab a set of dies this week for the 6.5CM. He will teach me how to do it and let me use his press and tools.

I understand the basic principles and I have a good tutor to help me learn. If I can't hit the long longer range stuff, I will keep learning and trying.

yo-yo · Aug 12, 2024

Slides said:
Using full recticle hold isn't ideal from a self spotting perspective either. If you have to buy mounting hardware it's silly not to buy a mount with an additional 20MOA cant.

Yeah, I learned that today. I talked it through with Vortex and then agreed I needed 40MOA cant total. I have 20 on the action picatinny rail and I bought n ARC M-Brace today with another 20MOA. That should be enough to get me all the way, without any holdover...real question is if I will be able to see the target well enough with the Strike Eagle. I'll find out soon enough.

SanPatHogger · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Gotcha. Thanks for the additional info. I think I'm going with this...
20 MOA on the rail on the action.
20 MOA on the scope mount
Strike Eagle 5-25x56 with 34mm 31mrad (estimated 25mrad effective after zero-stop)
ARC M-Brace Scope mount 32mm (1.26") - not sure exactly how where this will put the center of the scope and center of the barrel)
Shooting 6.5CM at first, and then swapping to PRC's.

I haven't studied the PRC rounds yet, but I'm estimating an additional 200-300fps which will make this easier, but readint that others are getting the 6.5CM to one mile makes me think I'll try to get that first, before making the swap.

I have shot my 243 to a mile. Like others have said, if you miss you have no splash. You say this is your first gun? If so, I would buy a pile of ammo first. Get a bolt and rebarrel later. The 6.5cm is good. Shoot the hell out of it and burn it out.
Depending on where you are shooting I would walk it out. Shoot at 100 and confirm zero, then walk out 200, 300 and write down what it is actually doing. As you get better and more confident go back out and confirm zero at 100, then jump to 500 and confirm dope, then 800 or 1,000.
The night I made a hit at a mile the wind was super steady, 4-5mph and no gusts. I seem to remember I shot a pretty nice group at 1,300 but itb was low and right. I corrected the elevation by slowing down the velocity in the calculator and upped the wind mph a little to find the correction. Then I moved back.
I run a Helos BTR2. If you go all the way to the upper limit the scope can shift internal and then when you get back to zero it's off a hair. I dialed jsut short of whatever I found was max and then held over in the reticle. I hit at 1,000 yards with a $300 scope and I hit at a mile with a $550 scope. My buddy has the strike eagle you want, it's pretty even with the Helos and should work fine for you.
If it were my gun I would put a 30 moa rail on it and then also the 20 in the mount. You should be able to zero at 100, I can with the 243.

Where are you shooting? Is it flat or from one hill to another? Is there dry dirty sand to spot your misses? If not, can you put up a wall of cardboard? 10 foot X 10 foot of cardboard may seem overkill, but when you are starting out and can't judge wind or crank your windage turret the wrong way... missing is easy.
Good luck.

W54/XM-388 · Aug 12, 2024

yo-yo said:
Funny! No offense taken. I don't have any expectations, other than to learn. This will be a fun journey and a learning process. I have to start somewhere. The goal is a mile, and I am already just happy at 200 yards. We can shoot up to about 500 yards at the house here, and other family property about 100 miles away, allows for an easy one mile, and probably a bit over 2000 yards.

The plan is simply to shoot the Creedmoor for now. See how I do. If it's too challenging for the equipment, I will push up to the PRC. That gives me the best bang for the buck right now, on a limited budget and gets me shooting. I can afford to feed both of those rounds. We also have a 338 lapua in the family, that I can shoot, so I won't have to buy a new gun for that...so that's good.
Right now, I'd rather not shoot it a lot, simply due to the costs.

I will learn to reload. My friend next door, has all the equipment, and I will grab a set of dies this week for the 6.5CM. He will teach me how to do it and let me use his press and tools.

I understand the basic principles and I have a good tutor to help me learn. If I can't hit the long longer range stuff, I will keep learning and trying.

Here is a thought
If you already have a .338LM and you have a 6.5CM currently, Perhaps skip worrying about the 6.5 PRC for now and spend that money instead on dies and reloading supplies for the .338LM and the 6.5CM and shoot both of those instead. Shoot the 6.5CM most and then when you want to have a good day making a lot of hits at a mile, use the .338LM

If you didn't already have the .338LM there are some options in that class such as .300NM or .300 PRC that do a mile to 2k nicely, but the .338 with nice bullets will easily take you to a mile repeatably.

If you reload and take good care of your brass, the .338LM isn't too bad cost wise to shoot.

yo-yo · Aug 13, 2024

SanPatHogger said:
I have shot my 243 to a mile. Like others have said, if you miss you have no splash. You say this is your first gun? If so, I would buy a pile of ammo first. Get a bolt and rebarrel later. The 6.5cm is good. Shoot the hell out of it and burn it out.
Depending on where you are shooting I would walk it out. Shoot at 100 and confirm zero, then walk out 200, 300 and write down what it is actually doing. As you get better and more confident go back out and confirm zero at 100, then jump to 500 and confirm dope, then 800 or 1,000.
The night I made a hit at a mile the wind was super steady, 4-5mph and no gusts. I seem to remember I shot a pretty nice group at 1,300 but itb was low and right. I corrected the elevation by slowing down the velocity in the calculator and upped the wind mph a little to find the correction. Then I moved back.

Thanks for the strategy ideas! Those are good!

SanPatHogger said:
Where are you shooting? Is it flat or from one hill to another? Is there dry dirty sand to spot your misses? If not, can you put up a wall of cardboard? 10 foot X 10 foot of cardboard may seem overkill, but when you are starting out and can't judge wind or crank your windage turret the wrong way... missing is easy.
Good luck.

The shooting area up to 500 yards is all flat. Grass land. Pretty dry, right now, without a lot of rain. The 1+ mile land is new to us, and I haven't been to it yet. I know from other family members it's pretty vast (thousands of acres). I know from topographical maps, there is both wide areas of grassland (we have cattle and horses on it) and very mountainous areas where we can hunt antelope, so there would be some additional mixed areas to shoot like that.

Yeah I could construct some backdrops there. That would also be a good idea! Depending on the wind...I could reinforce cardboard with wood.

I haven't thought it through all the way. I will be heading down there for the first time in at the end of the month. The rest of the family is hunting, but I will focus on how to create a test/learning environment there, and incorporate some of your ideas. Thanks!

yo-yo · Aug 13, 2024

W54/XM-388 said:
Here is a thought
If you already have a .338LM and you have a 6.5CM currently, Perhaps skip worrying about the 6.5 PRC for now and spend that money instead on dies and reloading supplies for the .338LM and the 6.5CM and shoot both of those instead. Shoot the 6.5CM most and then when you want to have a good day making a lot of hits at a mile, use the .338LM

If you didn't already have the .338LM there are some options in that class such as .300NM or .300 PRC that do a mile to 2k nicely, but the .338 with nice bullets will easily take you to a mile repeatably.

If you reload and take good care of your brass, the .338LM isn't too bad cost wise to shoot.

Yeah, agreed. I plan to shoot the 6.5CM for a while this year. The primary reason I thought about the PRC was simply to get a little more out of the short action caliber, before considering other options. Good point though...I hadn't thought about a different long action caliber choice. I like the Lapua, but it is a bit more costly. We are reloading that now, although we keep breaking dies, but once that is sorted out...it should heavily reduce the cost of those rounds.

I don't own the Lapua (belongs to another family member), but I can shoot it when I want. I have been doing that at short distance, and not changing any of the chassis adjustments to better fit me (just so I don't mess them up for my other family member), but long term I'd prefer to have something contoured to me.

. Perhaps I will look at some larger caliber options when that time comes. Good idea about considering other larger options like the .300NM and the .300PRC!

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

Nik H said:
Increase the cant in your rail or buy a mount with cant.

The more cant you add the closer you can place your turret towards the bottom and use more of the adjustment range. However, you can't go too far or you will not be able to zero at 100 yards.

I run a 30 MOA rail on my AXMC with no cant in the mount. It gets me to where I need to be. Some use a combined 40 MOA between rail and mount.

Just be sure youve got enough room that the bell doesnt hit the barrel. That tends to mess up everything.

Nik H · Nov 13, 2024

Maggot said:
Just be sure youve got enough room that the bell doesnt hit the barrel. That tends to mess up everything.

Thanks, but I run 1.54" tall rings or mounts on all my rifles. The height's side benefit is that it keeps my head upright when shooting prone. It greatly reduces fatigue.

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

W54/XM-388 said:
Here is a thought
If you already have a .338LM and you have a 6.5CM currently, Perhaps skip worrying about the 6.5 PRC for now and spend that money instead on dies and reloading supplies for the .338LM and the 6.5CM and shoot both of those instead. Shoot the 6.5CM most and then when you want to have a good day making a lot of hits at a mile, use the .338LM

If you didn't already have the .338LM there are some options in that class such as .300NM or .300 PRC that do a mile to 2k nicely, but the .338 with nice bullets will easily take you to a mile repeatably.

If you reload and take good care of your brass, the .338LM isn't too bad cost wise to shoot.

Good advice. the 6.5 PRC wont give you enough over the CM to make it worth the investment. Shoot the 6.5 until you have experience then either go to the 338, or build what you want.

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

Nik H said:
Thanks, but I run 1.54" tall rings or mounts on all my rifles. The height's side benefit is that it keeps my head upright when shooting prone which greatly reduces fatigue.

I knew you knew that I was talking to the OP. I saw the other happen. Did you get your yearly barrel of Oil?

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Do I need more than 20MOA elevation with common scopes at 1 mile on 6.5PRC

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