.22 group expectations? and paper target

axis007 · Aug 13, 2024

I have been practicing .22 Precision Style shooting in my backyard, the distance is 50 yards, bought some precision / competitions style paper target online, trying to search more information on it, goggle as much as I can, not finding too much info ....

some is "American Rifle Association" the target is 1 inch diameter, center target is 1/2" = 100 points, the other is USBR, the target is a 2 inch diameter, 1/2" is 8 points 1/4" is 9 points and Bulleye is 10 points, are anyone familiar with any of these organization's target? Is one more of a standard, or later in completion, which origination is more prevalent.

what is the realistic group for a .22 LR at 50 yards, I know the rifle and barrel matters and the ammo matters, I am shooting ELEY Tenex and Lapua X with 40 grain and about 1050fps. What should be my expectations? 5 shots , 1 inch group? 1/2 inch group? 1/4" group ??? if that is all possible? I am a Newbie, sorry if the questions are not appropriate.

Lightning8 · Aug 13, 2024

I shoot PRS22. Last Sunday targets ranged from 73 yards to 266 yards. Issue I find with 22 ammo (my opinion and observations) they all shoot great at 25 yards (like one hole), most shoot 1/2 inch at 50 yards. 100 yard groups become eye opening. 100+ yards groups really eye opening. If you are shooting NRL22 the max range is 100 yards and probably need 2 inch capability repeatably. PRS22 is more demanding especially in the 75 to 150 yard range where match directors put demanding (small targets).

Real question becomes how well does your rifle/ammo combo group at 100 yards.

jetjock07 · Aug 13, 2024

For precision 22lr 1/4”-1/2” @50 yards

axis007 · Aug 13, 2024

Lightning8 said:
I shoot PRS22. Last Sunday targets ranged from 73 yards to 266 yards. Issue I find with 22 ammo (my opinion and observations) they all shoot great at 25 yards (like one hole), most shoot 1/2 inch at 50 yards. 100 yard groups become eye opening. 100+ yards groups really eye opening. If you are shooting NRL22 the max range is 100 yards and probably need 2 inch capability repeatably. PRS22 is more demanding especially in the 75 to 150 yard range where match directors put demanding (small targets).

Real question becomes how well does your rifle/ammo combo group at 100 yards.

noted, I am grouping at 1/4" inch at 50 yards, (good day) and 1/2" on a so so day, need to practice at 100 yards now to see what the spread is.

oldrifleman · Aug 13, 2024

100 yards is where every weakness in your form/technique will manifest. It will also shine light on ammunition weaknesses. Enjoy the journey

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2024

My most accurate rifles are Winchester 52C target rifles. They are 60-75 years old but very well cared for and not really showing little wear and no abuse.
The bores are in new condition but bore scope shows tooling marks and look nothing like a new Bartlien or similar. Far from perfect.
They shoot under 1/4 “ 10 shot groups at 50 yards in good conditions with fair regularity and good ammunition. At 100 yards they shoot the same groups under an inch and at times under 1/2”. At 200 yards they shoot around 4” with smaller groups popping up every so often.

oldrifleman · Aug 13, 2024

RTH1800 said:
My most accurate rifles are Winchester 52C target rifles. They are 60-75 years old but very well cared for and not really showing a lower and no abuse.
The bores are in new condition but bore scope shows tooling marks and look nothing like a new Bartlien or similar. Far from perfect.
They shoot under 1/4 “ 10 shot groups at 50 yards in good conditions with fair regularity and good ammunition. At 100 yards they shoot the same groups under an inch and at times under 1/2”. At 200 yards they shoot around 4” with smaller groups popping up every so often.

Great rifles, I learned on 52s. Unfortunately the 52c that I still have left was rebarreled before I bought it, but it is an amazing rifle.

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2024

I will add that I have had some more modern target type rifles with custom barrels that looked much better to the bore scope. They did not shoot as well. YMMV.

oldrifleman · Aug 13, 2024

The most accurate 22 I have ever shot was a very well used 52D thumbhole. It would regularly do single hole groups at 50yrds. looked horrible and I know it was cleaned about once a year (if that). I have no idea what magic the old guard used on these but I would wish it was still in use.

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2024

The above is what baffles me as well. What was done with those old 52’s and REM 37’s
with their old rough factory bores that makes them so consistently accurate?
@Frank Green, I know you have an interest in the old rifles and slight experience with modern precision barrels.

Would you care to share your thoughts or experiences?

Thank you in advance.

axis007 · Aug 13, 2024

Lightning8 said:
I shoot PRS22. Last Sunday targets ranged from 73 yards to 266 yards. Issue I find with 22 ammo (my opinion and observations) they all shoot great at 25 yards (like one hole), most shoot 1/2 inch at 50 yards. 100 yard groups become eye opening. 100+ yards groups really eye opening. If you are shooting NRL22 the max range is 100 yards and probably need 2 inch capability repeatably. PRS22 is more demanding especially in the 75 to 150 yard range where match directors put demanding (small targets).

Real question becomes how well does your rifle/ammo combo group at 100 yards.

I don’t have the luxury to put up a target at 100 yard, due to the terrain of my backyard. I do have AR500 steel target at 150 yards, with 4 inch, 6 inch , 8 inch and 12 inch target. I can repeatedly hit the 12 inch target, at what size target then at 150 yards, between 4,6,8, is consider good grouping ? Comparable for example 1/4” to 1/2” @50 yards?

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2024

Grouping at various ranges are really comparable to no other range.
Groups are shot on paper targets.

Jack_L · Aug 13, 2024

I use 10 round groups to evaluate performance, and optimally 10 individual targets. While I do care about overall group size, I care more about hitting the desired target in the conditions I am shooting.
My focus is PRS Rimfire, and in that game most stages are 10 shots.
ARA is 25 individual shots, scored by the worst (outside) edge of the impact. The 0.5" (for unlimited class) 100 ring therefore requires a centered 25-round group size of 0.28" (center to center) maximum to achieve a perfect score. That is an extremely challenging task. Most rifles that people claim to be "1/2 MOA" won't meet it, not over 25 rounds and 3 or 4 cards (75-100 rounds).
My Vudoo will regularly put 10 rounds into a tidy little 1/2" hole at 50 yards, but every now and then one will slide out. Those fliers won't mean much on a 3" target at 100 yards, but they can definitely cost me on the small KYL target at 50.

I said all of that to really say this: basing accuracy perception on a few 5-round groups leaves a lot of important info unaccounted for.
If you want to see what you and your rifle are really capable of, shoot 25 straight rounds on 25 individual 1/2" targets at 50 yards. Then do it 3 more times.

justin amateur · Aug 14, 2024

I can produce small groups from 50 to 200 yards.
My issue is consistency. Hence the description "random acts of accuracy".
My other issue is punching center. Small groups don't correlate to my ability to hit the ten ring.
Shoot a group, dial crosshairs to center of bughole, then attempt a one-dot/one-shot target.
I've decided groups are useful only for adjusting the scope to conditions and ammunition.
Punching center has turned out to be a serious challenge.
I can hold point of aim, maintain it to impact, but my inability to judge wind
and the effects of cartridge differences, has illustrated just how little control I have over results.

epags · Aug 14, 2024

@axis007
I am a non-competative shooter (except with myself) and got interested in lower cost (LOL) shooting. I normally shoot 45ACP which adds up. So I found on another site. I don't know if saying where will violate any local rules so will only say you can Google "Aug. 2024 RFC Rimfire Benchrest Factory/Unlimited" to find a ARA type self scoring/bragging rights only prizes. It is a single shot at 25 bullseyes @ 25 yards and if you can score 2500 you can go on to the same @ 50 yards. My gear (which I keep adding to, hence the earlier LOL) will never allow me to score 2500 @ 50 yards but it is teaching me a lot about equipment, position and ammo.
Today I shot 4 cards on a windless morning @ 25 yards and scored 2175 which is my best to date. My eyes were crossing from staring into the scope.
Have fun which ever way you go

bulletbluesky · Aug 14, 2024

Group Expectation at 1000 yards with standard 22lr? Hmm, maybe 10 feet?

DownhillFromHere · Aug 14, 2024

axis007 said:
I do have AR500 steel target at 150 yards, with 4 inch, 6 inch , 8 inch and 12 inch target. I can repeatedly hit the 12 inch target, at what size target then at 150 yards, between 4,6,8, is consider good grouping ? Comparable for example 1/4” to 1/2” @50 yards?

I and @Rob01 shoot a monthly gallery-style match which feature three racks of 20 knockdown steel targets at 50, 100, and 150 yards. Each rack has 4 rows of 5 targets ranging in size from 6MOA down to 3MOA. That's the height of the IDPA targets; the width is 40% less.

The point of this post is that the smallest targets at 100 yards are ~1.8 inches wide (3" IDPA); the smallest 150-yard target is ~2.4" wide (4" IDPA). The top shooters at this match often run perfect scores on the 100-yard racks - not surprising; a 1.8-inch-wide target is definitely achievable given that top-shelf rifles with decent ammo are capable of pretty consistent 1" groups at that distance.

The 150-yard racks' 4x2.4" IDPA targets are different. In the five years or so I've been shooting this match, I have cleaned the 150 rack maybe twice. Lots of 58s and 59s (out of possible 60). Always one of the smallest targets left up. Rob has done it a few more times (we both shoot Vudoos with Lapua Center-X or SK Long Range; I shot a RimX last year and came back to my gen-1 V22). The racks are in the corner of a square range with berms immediately behind and to the left; wind swirls in all manner of confusion there.

My point is, if you have a 150-yard range available to you, your goal should be to put the great majority of your rounds on a 4" plate at that distance. The wind will be your biggest challenge. Ideally, if you can get a 3" plate up at that range, you have a target that's at the physical limit of what a .22 round of any quality can do.

I have practiced 150-yard shots with paper 4" IDPA targets. With my lot-tested Center-X, I would shoot 20 rounds to simulate that 150-yard rack (all smallest targets). On calm days, all too often, 19 rounds hit the IDPA. One would fall as much as a mil low.

It's .22. One of the top shooters at that match runs nothing but Lapua X-Act in his Anschutz. Another buddy shoots nothing but lot-tested Lapua Midas+ in his Vudoo. Those two guys don't do any better that Rob and I with our "cheaper" ammo.

Good luck.

Cody S · Aug 19, 2024

axis007 said:
I have been practicing .22 Precision Style shooting in my backyard, the distance is 50 yards, bought some precision / competitions style paper target online, trying to search more information on it, goggle as much as I can, not finding too much info ....

some is "American Rifle Association" the target is 1 inch diameter, center target is 1/2" = 100 points, the other is USBR, the target is a 2 inch diameter, 1/2" is 8 points 1/4" is 9 points and Bulleye is 10 points, are anyone familiar with any of these organization's target? Is one more of a standard, or later in completion, which origination is more prevalent.

what is the realistic group for a .22 LR at 50 yards, I know the rifle and barrel matters and the ammo matters, I am shooting ELEY Tenex and Lapua X with 40 grain and about 1050fps. What should be my expectations? 5 shots , 1 inch group? 1/2 inch group? 1/4" group ??? if that is all possible? I am a Newbie, sorry if the questions are not appropriate.

if you're doing bench rest Abra or Ara near me they shoot around about .5moa at 50 yards for 20 shots, consistently with the boltys. about 1moa for the good semis.
for a precision rimfire build my goal is about the same at .5moa for 10 shots, same as my centerfire prs guns.
my rimfire build isn't near done yet so I have no idea if I even got close.

Cz455guru · Aug 21, 2024

I feel like this is a solid shooter, I'm sure there are plenty of rifles that can do this good or better at times. But this isn't a cherry picked group. It's the only lot test target I shot with this ammo and the only 20 shot group I have shot with it.
Same lot of ammo the got me 4th place at the 2020 nrl22 championship in mount pleasant.

epags · Aug 22, 2024

Cz455guru said:
I feel like this is a solid shooter, I'm sure there are plenty of rifles that can do this good or better at times. But this isn't a cherry picked group. It's the only lot test target I shot with this ammo and the only 20 shot group I have shot with it.
Same lot of ammo the got me 4th place at the 2020 nrl22 championship in mount pleasant.

How about a photo of you rig?

Cz455guru · Aug 22, 2024

epags said:
How about a photo of you rig?

Here it is. I post in humility

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