Questions on My 1956 WRA Pre-64 Model 70 30-06

baker72

baker72

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 9, 2007
108
142
52
Concord ca
#1
G'day gents, I was checking a few threads on Van Orden M70 rifles.
My girls serial number is 364714 this is not on the list, I have pictures of that list attached.
she looks a lot like the Van Orden Rifles though I reckon she is not . She came to me with the rear Olympic style iron sight and front hooded sight, she is clip slot cut the stock, the trigger is interesting very wide, has the target style stock with the channel on the bottom of the stock, she is chambered in gods round 30-06.
The Unertl scope I added she had the hard mounts ready for this style of scope.

Thanks in advance if anyone has any extra info i was thinking about swapping the stock put to make a sniper clone
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0016.png
    IMG_0016.png
    3 MB · Views: 136
  • IMG_0011.png
    IMG_0011.png
    3.2 MB · Views: 136
  • IMG_0025.png
    IMG_0025.png
    806.5 KB · Views: 121
  • IMG_0027.png
    IMG_0027.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 100
  • IMG_0026.png
    IMG_0026.png
    1.6 MB · Views: 99
  • IMG_0020.png
    IMG_0020.png
    1.9 MB · Views: 127
  • Like
Reactions: Winchester M70 Van Orden, roostercogburn98 and camocorvette
#5
Looks like a straight forward 70 target. Very good condition from photos. The “wide trigger” is just an added aftermarket trigger shoe which can be removed via the two set screws in the side of it. It will need to come off to remove rifle from stock anyway.
Underneath the action you will note a barrel date (two digits) Does not always match production date. Some are way off.
If you look at side of trigger it will likely have a capitol T lightly stamped on it near the action.
Nice rifle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Toftwo, baker72, Stevo86 and 1 other person
#7
+
RTH1800 said:
Looks like a straight forward 70 target. Very good condition from photos. The “wide trigger” is just an added aftermarket trigger shoe which can be removed via the two set screws in the side of it. It will need to come off to remove rifle from stock anyway.
Underneath the action you will note a barrel date (two digits) Does not always match production date. Some are way off.
If you look at side of trigger it will likely have a capitol T lightly stamped on it near the action.
Nice
Click to expand...

Thanks for all that info especially the trigger info that thing is gone , yep the stock will be going as well i like the look of the regular stock to make a Sniper clone.
 
#9
I would not change a thing in that… shoot it just as—is!

If anything glass bed stock and free float barrel.

But that is a perfect example of a target and LR rifle from the days just before plastic and weaver mounts took over!

Shoot it! I may surprise you! It will surprise you!

New hardware and it will be just another old action in a newfangled stock. In that configuration, it will be the queen of any range you visit!

Just my two percent of a dollar!

Sirhr
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: jetmd, Ironman1959, Mark Buettgen and 9 others
#11
Oh and I have a nice run of the mill model 70 .30-06 here. I’ll trade you in a second for that rifle.

You can change barrels, throw out the stock. Make it a 6.5. Put it in anything you want. Drill it. Tap it. Cerokote it. No one will care. And you can make an amazing newfangled rifle.

But please don’t chop up that one! Seriously! I would be happy to save that rifle and get you a donor!!!

Cheers. Sirhr
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: baker72, roostercogburn98, Atomic_Lobster and 1 other person
#12
You’ll be surprised how well that rifle shoots. As suggested I wouldn’t do anything but possibly bed it….after you shoot and see how it does. I have one just like it that will shoot 1/2 moa with a 169smk hand load in its factory configuration. Great looking rifle. Just a side note… the usmc used the target stock on their sniper rifles as well… if my memory serves me correct.
 
  • Like
Reactions: deltawiskey, roostercogburn98, baker72 and 1 other person
#13
Send it to pre64 win for bedding. He does beautiful bedding. The pictures on his sight of bedding are of my rifle.

I had my issues getting that built but he stood by his work and made it right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baker72
#15
sirhrmechanic said:
Oh and I have a nice run of the mill model 70 .30-06 here. I’ll trade you in a second for that rifle.

You can change barrels, throw out the stock. Make it a 6.5. Put it in anything you want. Drill it. Tap it. Cerokote it. No one will care. And you can make an amazing newfangled rifle.

But please don’t chop up that one! Seriously! I would be happy to save that rifle and get you a donor!!!

Cheers. Sirhr
Click to expand...
You have inspired me now Im going to put a rail, lasers, lights a m203 yeah yeah mount some comms 6.5 wow great idea maybe. Chop the barrel to 14.5 add a folding stock plus an authentic Israeli bottle opener hell yeah man look at me now . lol nah Im going to swap the stock for another wra stock , just not a fan of this stock 😳🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣 i love 3006 o shit i need a can opener as well 👍
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Winchester M70 Van Orden and sirhrmechanic
#18
baker72 said:
You have inspired me now Im going to put a rail, lasers, lights a m203 yeah yeah mount some comms 6.5 wow great idea maybe. Chop the barrel to 14.5 add a folding stock plus an authentic Israeli bottle opener hell yeah man look at me now . lol nah Im going to swap the stock for another wra stock , just not a fan of this stock 😳🤷🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣🤣 i love 3006 o shit i need a can opener as well 👍
Click to expand...

Ok... fair enough.

But we have had our share of folks who managed to tear up some amazing rifles to make franken rifles! So not picking on you... just trying to help avert disaster!

Love the Unertl, BTW!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
  • Like
Reactions: baker72
#19
Removing and storing the original stock, adding a field stock and enjoying it could be considered preserving its integrity.
Far preferable to bedding the original stock.

You could sell it and find a beater to mess with.

It’s yours, do as you choose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: baker72
#20
baker72 said:
+


Thanks for all that info especially the trigger info that thing is gone , yep the stock will be going as well i like the look of the regular stock to make a Sniper clone.
Click to expand...
I went the stock swapping route with mine, in the end I liked the fit and feel of the target stock better so swapped back.
If you go ahead with you're plans hold out for a Monte Carlo Sporter stock.
The one I used was a low comb and it required a bit of turkey necking to get a good view through the scope.

On the odd chance you're unaware, the fat target stocks were used in Vietnam in limited numbers....
IMG_20240824_172246273.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: baker72
#23
sirhrmechanic said:
^^^ Is that Captain Land on the Binoculars?

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...
This is 3rd Marine Div Sniper School in Vietnam. I don't think he was involved with this school. The officer I see named as in charge of the school at this time was Capt Robert Russell.

My hunch is I think that Marine is actually GySgt George Hurt. He was a distinguished shooter and the senior instructor at the school.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lange Carabine and baker72
#24
These Model 70's were extremely popular in the mid 50's as competition rifles for military and civilian shooters alike. Everyone was buying and using them in competition. So unless you ever found the serial number on something official it's really hard to say who had it, whether it was a military or civilian rifle. Though since it's not Property marked it's more likely civilian in this serial range.

The Marine Model 70's are probably the most popular and I've seen quite a few Marine Model 70's now, many are still in Marine inventory at several locations. Most of them there is no possible way to tell there were Marine. Some are US Property marked, most are not. All I have seen in Marine inventory were in the 40,000 to almost 51,000 serial range. The same can be said of the serials Chandler posted in his book. I'm seeing the same ranges.

The Army ones from the 50's are usually in the 300k to early 400k range. Those are US Property marked. I have the docs on the purchase of those and the orders to mark them US Property.

Van Orden sold a lot more Model 70's than the serial lists out there. But I know no way to know one of his rifles unless you find the serial on a document or receipt. Van Orden supplied a lot of parts and rifles to military shooters. A lot were private purchase. Some were actually sold to Army Arsenals.

Unfortunately with the Model 70 usually you just have to find the serial on something to now what they were. :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lange Carabine and baker72
#25
sirhrmechanic said:
Ok... fair enough.

But we have had our share of folks who managed to tear up some amazing rifles to make franken rifles! So not picking on you... just trying to help avert disaster!

Love the Unertl, BTW!

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...
Nah all good mate, i wouldn't do that and I'm taking the piss a bit with me last post to ya , just joking . look i almost sold it a ways back i put a few rifles up and sold some i said to myself what goes goes and what stays will be what i get to keep. i started my own business and need extra cash well the business is surviving so for now i get to keep her 👍 and enjoy her. thanks for the advice plus it shows that you do give a shit which i like.
 
#26
Lange Carabine said:
I went the stock swapping route with mine, in the end I liked the fit and feel of the target stock better so swapped back.
If you go ahead with you're plans hold out for a Monte Carlo Sporter stock.
The one I used was a low comb and it required a bit of turkey necking to get a good view through the scope.

On the odd chance you're unaware, the fat target stocks were used in Vietnam in limited numbers....
Click to expand...

At first i was thinking about selling the stock but i reckon i will store it away you never know i might change my mimd it later on so that way i can always put here back.

Will
 
  • Like
Reactions: roostercogburn98 and Lange Carabine
#30
Mister Ridge said:
Is the muzzle supposed to be blued?
Click to expand...
Offhand yes I think they are all blued. That’s the way they came from the factory. I’ve had a couple and have a take off barrel at home I have pic’s on my work computer of the crown.

Also have pic’s of a real Van Orden rifle that I’ve handled that Mr. Land owns.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
  • Like
Reactions: baker72, roostercogburn98, Mister Ridge and 1 other person
#31
The muzzles on the 70s were blued.

I have a 56 just like that one, it's pictures are in McLaines 70 post.
I have a 61 that you can't tell the difference btw it and 56. Have a 57 with a new barrel. They were common enough. The .gov target/amu/rifle team units were scribed US Property as in the picture above. it's an extremely rare .gov unit that's not scribed.
Best to yall...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: baker72
#34
In the attached pic... the upside down rifle is Hathcocks Model 70 and it has the Unertl scope on it.

The rifle on the top is an original/one of the first Van Orden built rifles. It has a Lyman target scope on it. Notice no checkering on the stock and again these where basically sporter stocks with the barrel channel opened up on them.

I think I have some more pic's on my phone.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 

Attachments

  • Hathcock sniper rifles.jpg
    Hathcock sniper rifles.jpg
    580.8 KB · Views: 61
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: ed99, baker72, Winchester M70 Van Orden and 7 others
#40
RTH1800 said:
Van Orden with pre war shroud?
Evaluators Ltd started after the war iirc. ??????
Click to expand...
Oh, the stroud... I tried to keep this out of this discussion.. Beg my pardon.

The focus should be solely on this particular Rifles.. .

Winchester M70 Carlos Hathcock Sniper Rilfe.Gunboards.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Winchester M70 Carlos Hathcock Sniper Rilfe.Gunboards.jpg
    Winchester M70 Carlos Hathcock Sniper Rilfe.Gunboards.jpg
    67 KB · Views: 22
  • Love
Reactions: camocorvette
#42
Frank Green said:
In the attached pic... the upside down rifle is Hathcocks Model 70 and it has the Unertl scope on it.

The rifle on the top is an original/one of the first Van Orden built rifles. It has a Lyman target scope on it. Notice no checkering on the stock and again these where basically sporter stocks with the barrel channel opened up on them.

I think I have some more pic's on my phone.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Click to expand...
Hold on frank Carlos original rifle or a tribute , if legit how did you get that one out of the usmc armory
 
#43
baker72 said:
Hold on frank Carlos original rifle or a tribute , if legit how did you get that one out of the usmc armory
Click to expand...
Nope it’s the rifle and legit. Maj. Land rescued the rifle. From what I understand from the Land’s was when the rifle was decommissioned as I’ll call it… it was taken a part. They could sell the parts back in the day but not the complete rifle. Mr. Land went and got everything and had it reassembled. He knew the significance of the rifle and the history to go with it. So he rescued it.

Again it’s not a tribute gun / clone but it’s the rifle.

The NRA or the USMC museum has asked the Land’s to donate some of the rifles out of their collection but they will not. In their words they are working tools and will not sit behind a piece of glass never to be handled or shot ever again. The collection they have is very impressive. They have every rifle and every optic the USMC snipers have used from WW1 to present day.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: sgtsmmiii, j-huskey, JustSendit and 8 others
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
Post 64 Model 70 Match Rifle w/ 12x Unertl value
Replies
15
Views
557
roostercogburn98
roostercogburn98
D
Pre 64 Model 70 winchester opinion please.
Replies
11
Views
610
jwood1284
jwood1284
O
Odd Winchester Post '64 Model 70... Possibly Custom Shop?
Replies
10
Views
382
oneshot onekill
O
baker72
USMC DMR McMillan Black M14 Stock 1 of 4
Replies
7
Views
1K
baker72
baker72
Tcorb734
Winchester 70 target rifle
Replies
42
Views
3K
RTH1800
R
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts