Big game all-rounder

WB300 · Aug 23, 2024

For "most" of N. America big game.... I do remember a podcast with Lowlight from his Alaska trip where he'd choose 6.5PRC with the right bullet for this exact question.

After pondering that for a while.... I agree.

I went down this exact road about 7 years ago. I figured a 28" 30-06 throated long was the answer. 130 grainers for a laser out to 400 yards, and the heavies to buck the wind at distance to give me close to 300WM performance. It didnt work for me, but I am not the best shooter or reloader.

Hope this helps. Please keep us updated with what you decide. Pics are always welcome.

RTH1800 · Aug 23, 2024

Gunfighter14e2 said:
I would also like to know who is just a so called sport hunter w/no field ability, vs someone who only hunts for the table, or kills to stay alive.
I've seen/known plenty of so called hunters, using everything under the sun and once they shoot, their guide is working for hr's upon hr's to find & finish the kill.

I agree that this would be interesting to know but a couple thoughts come to mind.

1) It’s not completely relevant to the rifle thread.

2) No one is going to tell you “I’m an incompetent bastard who only signs checks and has my guide finish off animals”

We will need to read between the lines to figure that out. My personal opinion is to determine who hunts small game with a rifle. If you don’t do that chances are you are a check signing buffoon. Not always but often.

The guys who call varmints, hunt squirrels, night hunt hogs on foot are more likely to be woodsmen than the guy who takes up hunting at age 40 like it’s learning to ski or golf. They never seem to get it.

UpSideDown · Aug 23, 2024

These threads always devolve into the same discussion. Someone asks “what’s the best cartridge for hunting NA game” and then the Alaska boys turn that into “what’s the best cartridge for point blank self defense against a Kodiak bear”.

That’s not what he asked.

I stick with my suggestion: 6.5 creedmoor is probably the best. Lots of others will do. There’s no freaking way, if I was buying one rifle, that I would throw away all the ballistics/recoil/weight/availability of rifle & cartridge of a common round and buy some super-magnum ‘just in case’, as has been said 50 times in this thread now.

If you’re legitimately going into beer country up close then carry whatever you think is appropriate in that extremely narrow experience of NA hunting. Otherwise carry a realistic rifle. Most American hunters are not in this camp of up-close grizzly/brown encounters.

30-06 is only cool if you hand load. If you’re buying factory ammo then it’s just a long(er)-action .308 with poorer bullet selection and more recoil.

RTH1800 · Aug 23, 2024

UpSideDown said:
These threads always devolve into the same discussion. Someone asks “what’s the best cartridge for hunting NA game” and then the Alaska boys turn that into “what’s the best cartridge for point blank self defense against a Kodiak bear”.

That’s not what he asked.

I stick with my suggestion: 6.5 creedmoor is probably the best. Lots of others will do. There’s no freaking way, if I was buying one rifle, that I would throw away all the ballistics/recoil/weight/availability of rifle & cartridge of a common round and buy some super-magnum ‘just in case’, as has been said 50 times in this thread now.

If you’re legitimately going into beer country up close then carry whatever you think is appropriate in that extremely narrow experience of NA hunting. Otherwise carry a realistic rifle. Most American hunters are not in this camp of up-close grizzly/brown encounters.

30-06 is only cool if you hand load. If you’re buying factory ammo then it’s just a long(er)-action .308 with poorer bullet selection and more recoil.

I agree with about half of this.
The huge stopping rifles are not anything anyone is going to hunt pronghorn with. But your 6.5 is not anything anyone is going to hunt brown bear with.
That is why I think the 300 Win Mag is the stand alone best choice. I would literally hunt all species in NA with it and know many who have done so.
I used a 7mm on all except brown bear. I would use the 7mm on brown bear but the .300 WM would be better in fact.

Michael Trainowski · Aug 23, 2024

Gunfighter14e2 said:
I would also like to know who is just a so called sport hunter w/no field ability, vs someone who only hunts for the table, or kills to stay alive.
I've seen/known plenty of so called hunters, using everything under the sun and once they shoot, their guide is working for hr's upon hr's to find & finish the kill.

While I’m not one that only hunts to put food on the table, I would also say I’m not one of those “go get your trophy” sports hunters. I don’t have any mounted heads anywhere, and everything I’ve shot, I’ve eaten. Some happily, some not so much. Got an old boar once that it’s hams, chops, even the ribs were tougher than the leather on my boots, even after it had been in my smoker for 24 hours. I would argue most guys here are like that.

david walter · Aug 23, 2024

I think one and done is the cartridge most suited for 95% of the hunting you’ll do. For me that’s the 6.5 Creedmoor. If I need something bigger, I’ll borrow it for Alaska.

This thread reminds me of the Yiddish proverb “bring a small problem into a room full of generals, and the resulting plan will be the sum of all fears.“

A very small percentage of hunters who live in the 48 will ever go to Alaska to hunt, let alone hunt bears, and never without a guide, who will either provide a rifle in a “suitable” caliber, or be nearby to provide covering fire. As guides are required for non residents and the OP does not live in Alaska.

The “what about big bears?” question is therefore irrelevant.

I’ve owned everything on the list except the PRCs. Which I find somewhat redundant with the RM and WM, except better twisted barrels from the factory.

Gunfighter14e2 · Aug 23, 2024

Michael Trainowski said:
While I’m not one that only hunts to put food on the table, I would also say I’m not one of those “go get your trophy” sports hunters. I don’t have any mounted heads anywhere, and everything I’ve shot, I’ve eaten. Some happily, some not so much. Got an old boar once that it’s hams, chops, even the ribs were tougher than the leather on my boots, even after it had been in my smoker for 24 hours. I would argue most guys here are like that.

When adrenaline hits the meat, the best way to negate it is to soak the meat in Coke-cola for a min of 8-12 hrs depending the animal, and how long it ran before dropping over. If you turn one off like a switch while they don't know you're there, I've never needed to soak one, but when one is running for what ever reason prior to popping it, I always soak the meat. Takes the wild taste, & toughness out of it that some people complain about,... Smoking a hog (full of adrenaline) at times makes it worst.

Michael Trainowski · Aug 23, 2024

Gunfighter14e2 said:
When adrenaline hits the meat, the best way to negate it is to soak the meat in Coke-cola for a min of 8-12 hrs depending the animal, and how long it ran before dropping over. If you turn one off like a switch while they don't know you're there, I've never needed to soak one, but when one is running for what ever reason prior to popping it, I always soak the meat. Takes the wild taste, & toughness out of it that some people complain about,... Smoking a hog (full of adrenaline) at times makes it worst.

Oh no, it’s not that. This boar was just an old, fat pig. He had to weigh every bit of 350lbs and I’m guessing he was at least 700 years old. My dad and I got a couple of his smaller girlfriends at the same time, they turned out great. Meat fell off the bone.

Gunfighter14e2 · Aug 23, 2024

Michael Trainowski said:
Oh no, it’s not that. This boar was just an old, fat pig. He had to weigh every bit of 350lbs and I’m guessing he was at least 700 years old. My dad and I got a couple of his smaller girlfriends at the same time, they turned out great. Meat fell off the bone.

I stop eating wild hogs at about 200 lbs, but the larger ones make fine bait for other hogs & critters.

kthomas · Aug 23, 2024

The practical answer is probably something along the lines of a 6.5 PRC.

If you want a big bore for the sake of it, a .375 H&H.

RTH1800 · Aug 23, 2024

david walter said:
I think one and done is the cartridge most suited for 95% of the hunting you’ll do.

The “what about big bears?” question is therefore irrelevant.

With a little wiggle room for the definition of the word “most” in the OP’s question and Yiddish proverbs aside and with all due respect, your answer is irrelevant.

You reframe the question to suit your personal bias and then answer YOUR QUESTION. You are free do so so but your answer becomes irrelevant to the OP’s question.

Further, though guides are required north of the lower 48, many do not carry rifles, even in grizzly country. Most in Alaska do, most in Canada do not. I know this from 40 years of hunting there, not from some magazine article I read. Nor do I personally know any hunter who wants a guide to shoot his animals.

If you simply read the question and answer it, including some of your experiences with “most” North American big game it MIGHT be relevant depending upon your experience with game from tiny Pronghorn and Javalina to Moose, Grizzly and Alaskan Brown Bear.

david walter · Aug 23, 2024

I’d argue “most of the North American big game” in itself eliminates big bears and moose, because most hunting, I’d bet, doesn’t include those.

“Most of the North American big game” would be?

Deer, antelope, elk, black bears, cougars, pigs?, sheep?

I guess the answer depends on what “most” means and how he includes species in or defines “North American Big Game”.

RTH1800 · Aug 23, 2024

Of course, keep arguing, betting and guessing.

Great way to live up to your sig line of being an “insightful commentator”.

But if that is what it means the OP’s post is completely meaningless. (Instead of just almost meaningless) Anything from .223 and up is fine.

david walter said:
I ‘d bet

david walter said:
I’d argue…

I guess …

@DangerDave , can you please clarify what “most North American Big Game” includes?

Thank you.

xsn10s · Aug 23, 2024

Michael Trainowski said:
All the people for 45-70, I’m just curious do you guys run that caliber in a bolt action, or in a lever action? I’ve shot a 45-70 years ago, but it was as in a lever action.

Marlin Century Limited III. Lever.

Michael Trainowski · Aug 24, 2024

Gunfighter14e2 said:
I stop eating wild hogs at about 200 lbs, but the larger ones make fine bait for other hogs & critters.

Yep I know that now, clearly didn’t at the time. I’ll chalk it up to when I was younger and dumber.

DangerDave · Aug 24, 2024

RTH1800 said:
@DangerDave , can you please clarify what “most North American Big Game” includes?

North American Super Slam: 29 Big Game Animals You Need

Only 173 hunters have accomplished this incredible feat. Will you be the next?

realtree.com

91Eunozs · Aug 24, 2024

I tend to stick with stuff know I can buy locally anywhere in NA, and that I can buy cheaper plinking and training ammo for as well.

.308 will work exceptionally well for 90% of NA game, and 30-06 or 300WM will get that same game at longer distance, plus ethically bring that remaining 10% into play as well…Brown Bears, Bull Moose, etc.

I also have a 300WSM built up as a short action hammer…pretty damn close to 300WM for ballistic performance, and frankly hits just as hard at the distances I’m comfortable taking hunting shots; typically well under 400 yards.

Gunfighter14e2 · Aug 24, 2024

RTH1800 said:
But if that is what it means the OP’s post is completely meaningless. (Instead of just almost meaningless) Anything from .223 and up is fine.

We all know shot placement rules, especially if you know the critters anatomy.
Long ago after my first ETS, I spent time away from people on the line between Idaho & Montana. Armed only with a Rem 600 in .223 & 45 long colt. Seen a moose in the water & got within about 85 yds of him, which was about 5 yds in a rock pile from the water. In the 4x weaver, his eye looked like a basket ball. That little 55gr quartering thru his eye into his brain, turned him off like you flipped a switch, as he just dropped like a rock.

I was so proud of myself until I realized where his ass was & how cold that water was. The next 5 hrs was pure misery. That old saying is so true, once you pull the trigger the fun is over & the work begins. Yes I had a large V shaped fire going prior too, but damn that water was cold,...

Memorable Experience,... The memory of an event you were part of or started, where you were not smart enough to game it 100% to ground prior too.

Would I normally hunt Elk & moose with a .223 nope. Will it take them, yes if everything is perfect, but stalking skills can negate many things. The lost of field ability & knowing your quarry can be seen more & more as time goes on, and that does not exclude just the "hunters" who just want to get away from X___________________.

Michael Trainowski · Aug 24, 2024

91Eunozs said:
I tend to stick with stuff know I can buy locally anywhere in NA, and that I can buy cheaper plinking and training ammo for as well.

.308 will work exceptionally well for 90% of NA game, and 30-06 or 300WM will get that same game at longer distance, plus ethically bring that remaining 10% into play as well…Brown Bears, Bull Moose, etc.

I also have a 300WSM built up as a short action hammer…pretty damn close to 300WM for ballistic performance, and frankly hits just as hard at the distances I’m comfortable taking hunting shots; typically well under 400 yards.

That’s not a bad call. My dad always said he chose 30-06 for his hunting rifle because worse comes to worse, you can go into any gun store, Walmart, general store in the middle of no where and find 30-06 ammo. Granted now days, most places carry the newer ammo and I’ve never had any trouble finding stuff for my 7mm Mag or my 6.5CM. But it is 2024, not the mid to late 2000’s (the last time he hunted).

Fig · Aug 24, 2024

IMHO don’t travel hundreds or thousands of miles with a “hunting” gun you can’t buy ammo for at a gas station. 30-06 and .300WM aren’t balistically “the best”, but the are the most common and most readily available. 6.5 CM is getting there now but still not as common.

I haven’t bought a box of rifle ammo in as long as I can remember, but I want the option when I’m far from home. There is no big game where I live, so I’m always a long way from home.

RTH1800 · Aug 24, 2024

DangerDave said:
North American Super Slam: 29 Big Game Animals You Need

Only 173 hunters have accomplished this incredible feat. Will you be the next?

realtree.com

What is YOUR definition of “most NA big game” ? It’s your thread.

The list you posted is not at all complete. Don’t see it as relevant anyway. Very few hunters today care to shoot a polar bear due to never being able to import them and the areas hunted legally today have never produced the larger ones.

david walter · Aug 24, 2024

I don’t see anything on the 29 species list that a 30-06 won’t handle.

@RTH1800, please wax on…..

RTH1800 · Aug 24, 2024

No thanks. Your broad experience overwhelms me. Continue on with your insightful comments.

DangerDave · Aug 24, 2024

RTH1800 said:
What is YOUR definition of “most NA big game” ? It’s your thread.

The list you posted is not at all complete. Don’t see it as relevant anyway. Very few hunters today care to shoot a polar bear due to never being able to import them and the areas hunted legally today have never produced the larger ones.

Whitetail, elk, moose, caribou, brown/black bear, muskox, bison, mountain goat, and pronghorn.

Michael Trainowski · Aug 24, 2024

DangerDave said:
Whitetail, elk, moose, caribou, brown/black bear, muskox, bison, mountain goat, and pronghorn.

You forgot hogzilla. He exists. Well at least my old man firmly believed that lol.

Maggot · Aug 25, 2024

UpSideDown said:
6.5 creedmoor running 147gr ELD-M is my first pick.
7PRC with 180gr ELD-M is my preference if I'm hunting a lot of long/windy shots.

The tipped match bullets are phenomenal killers and great at saving meat. They penetrate and hand grenade inside the lungs and stay there.

I run both of these with 7PRC as my primary. I would have no qualms about using any of the options you stated except .338wm. I would stay away from high recoiling rounds like that and all of the .30 cal options, personally.

I did a lot of investigation and settled on the7mm PRC. Best BC out there (excepting 375 Cheytac and the like), manageable recoil, reasonable ammo price, if $2.00 per trigger pull is reasonable

tacoman69 · Aug 26, 2024

Maggot said:
I did a lot of investigation and settled on the7mm PRC. Best BC out there (excepting 375 Cheytac and the like), manageable recoil, reasonable ammo price, if $2.00 per trigger pull is reasonable

7mm PRC Profile

7mm PRC Ballistics

Comparison of 6.5 PRC vs 7mm PRC vs 300 PRC

7mm PRC Ammo

Best 7mm PRC Ammo For Hunting

7mm PRC Rifles

Final Thoughts On The 7mm PRC

Why. Too much gun to spot impacts and too much recoil to practice consistently. Expensive ammo too. Nobody shoots bigger guns better either, you want that trigger time bc where you put the bullet matter first and foremost

Maggot · Aug 26, 2024

tacoman69 said:
Why. Too much gun to spot impacts and too much recoil to practice consistently. Expensive ammo too. Nobody shoots bigger guns better either, you want that trigger time bc where you put the bullet matter first and foremost

No arguement in general but with the Fat Bastard brake I can see impacts...at least as far as I can see them, LOL, It controls the muzzle rise really well. Does throw a lot of concussion back at you.

Forrest84 · Aug 26, 2024

if i was fully pragmatic i would say 30-06. but im seriously digging my 300wsm. not to hard to get factory ammo for(the ammo i just tested was the 200gr eldx precision hunter with single digit SD's and it printed a 2' group at 300 yards last weekend in really bad mirage and no effort. handloading is super easy and it has substantially less recoil than a 7prc or 300WM. It can perform very well in SA configuration and you can really step it up in a LA.

Forrest84 · Aug 26, 2024

tacoman69 said:
Why. Too much gun to spot impacts and too much recoil to practice consistently. Expensive ammo too. Nobody shoots bigger guns better either, you want that trigger time bc where you put the bullet matter first and foremost

the past few weeks I've been testing my 300wsm and my buddies new 7prc i got built for him both running factory Hornady ammo(Precision hunter and ELDM) and my 300 is crushing the 7prc. its recoil is noticeably sharper than the 300 which i was very surprised about. Yes the 7PRC has measurably higher BC but it when its loosing to my 300 in every other catagory it dont matter as you putt yourself.

jbuck88 · Aug 26, 2024

So. We agree the best gun is actually two. I agree with that. I run a 6.5cm and 300wsm. Both can back up the other in a pinch, but both trend towards big and small. I'd consider a 6cm and 300wsm, which may be a better combo, but I feel more comfortable with a 6.5cm on elk if needed.

91Eunozs · Aug 27, 2024

jbuck88 said:
So. We agree the best gun is actually two. I agree with that. I run a 6.5cm and 300wsm. Both can back up the other in a pinch, but both trend towards big and small. I'd consider a 6cm and 300wsm, which may be a better combo, but I feel more comfortable with a 6.5cm on elk if needed.

Similar here…mostly shoot .308, but for planned hunts other than hogs I take the 300WSM. $4-$5 every time I pull that trigger though, LoL.

If I know I’m gonna potentially shoot > 500 yards or so (and yes, I know 300 WSM will get me there easily), I grab my 280AI (essentially a 7mm cartridge) that started life as the receiver on my 30-06. It’s a heavy bastard though so I usually don’t take it on hunts where I’ll be hiking in.

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