Speed in PRS

Speed comes in form of efficiency for the most part. You stated you struggle finding targets so that would be my first place to practice.

My first step in target acquisition is to make target reference points for every target. The are things that I find while glassing that I can easily see with the naked eye. Next when setting up to start the stage I place myself square to the target with first position directly between me and the target (if possible). When I signal ready to shoot I am focusing on the target I intent to shoot. I might look away to place the bag but than right back on target to align rifle. I will drop down look over elevation turret to get a quick line and than drop into scope.

I see a lot of new shooters struggle with or not even try squaring up to targets or placing their rifle with intent and in the right direction.

Another thing I do a lot is I will get rifle setup on a prop directly on target, than I will step back behind rifle and look at it in multiple ways to get a good idea of what the rifle actually looks like when its pointed directly at the target.

What are you running for magnification? Id recommend lower to start I.E. 10-12power. It will give you a wider FOV. Also glassing for targets is very time consuming versus coming off the gun looking over your turret and dropping back down.

I think once you get target acquisition down you will want to move up in power to be able to see shots. I typically run around 17x. Being able to put your rifle down and your target be within your FOV will save you a ton of time. I almost always come off the gun in target transitions this way I look over top of rifle, point rifle desired location, drop down into scope and new target should be within FOV.

Once you can consistently place rifle down and be on target I would start slowly start increasing magnification as you progress.

trident512789 said:

I try and start around 10X, even down to 5 sometimes. I will try and use reference points for lining up the rifle. Should I get comfortable shooting at 10X. My mind naturally wants to crank up the power once I'm locked on, but I'm guessing if I have to move targets I should stay lower.

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Are you loosing the target between shots, if so then recoil management will be key. As you get better with this the more zoom you can use. Also being familiar with the range will help. Not sure where you live, but several of the bigger ranges in southeast offer PRS oriented training. It may be worth the investment. This may sound dumb but if you have the funds, a 22 built similar to your centerfire would also help.

I’m flipping almost blind in one eye at this point. I struggle to find the targets in general and dropping the rifle down on target is hard for me. I added a red dot and it seems to help me. Big ass landmark, drop the dot on it and lower eye onto the glass. I’m usually there. Smaller targets not so much still. I’m getting better staying on target with the 6.5cm recoil too.
Dry firing with the dfat at home helped tremendously to build stability for me. I am old and do have issues moving from low positions so I try to start high and go low if the instructions allow it.
Stick with it, you’ll get there

trident512789 said:

Position building--still lots of wobble--I can practice this at home though, so this is a skill I can work on.
Target acquisition, somehow I can never get my rifle on target in a timely manner. I zoom out at the start, but because targets are so hard to see sometimes I can't even recognize the grey target. I NEED HELP HERE (Yes I have a brand new prescription glasses, so that has been checked)

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I work on this in dry-fire at home. Upstairs window overlooks one of my neighbor’s hay field so I use objects he has in his field as my targets out to 900-ish yards. It’s very neighborly of him to move them around periodically as he irrigates.

Break it down into chunks and practice each until it becomes second nature.

First chunk: Practice building a position on furniture or tripod (w/ bag on top of tripod to simulate a barricade or tank trap) and acquire the target. Like others have said, find a reference point that you can see with the naked eye and point your rifle at it by looking over the top of the scope. Then drop down behind glass. Keep doing that until the target is in your FOV. I usually start out in lower-ish mag (10x) then zoom in if I need to. In a PRS match you should know what your distances are ahead of time, so you can have your parallax preset.

2nd chunk: Set a par time of 20 secs to start with, and practice doing the above but add closing the bolt and puling the trigger. Experiment with different hand placement to see what works the best to minimize wobble. I used to put my support thumb on the side of the fore-end, but found my wobble is less if I put my support hand on top of the scope.

3rd chunk: Keep doing the above until you can do it in under 15 sec par time, then 10.

4th chunk: multiple targets with different dope for each. Practice dialing as well as holding, transitioning from one target to the next, acquiring targets each time.

5th: Multiple positions, all on the clock. For example, I’ll build position off my tripod, dry-fire at a few targets while dialing dope for each target; then build another position off back of my couch and repeat sequence. Vary your par times to challenge yourself.

It doesn't matter if your not ROing...you need to be glued to glass the entire match. You will learn more behind binos than shooting. You get 5-13 mental reps per stage while glassing. Target aquision comes from knowing where targets are and point gun in that direction. Use the time behind glass wisely and you will see big gains fast

trident512789 said:

I try and start around 10X, even down to 5 sometimes. I will try and use reference points for lining up the rifle. Should I get comfortable shooting at 10X. My mind naturally wants to crank up the power once I'm locked on, but I'm guessing if I have to move targets I should stay lower.

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Yes you need to go up to atleast 15x. Force yourself to find target with naked eye and place gun in direction so it's in FOV. Your hit percentage is going to be shit becuase you can't resolve any detail, especially your hash marks at that magnification. Most pros are running 20-24x. Preset your parallax and mag as part of your pre stage checklist. You shouldn't be touching either on the stage.

I have terrible vision and don't shoot with glasses. I still can see targets and reference points with naked eye. If I can do it, anyone can.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

It doesn't matter if your not ROing...you need to be glued to glass the entire match.

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This right here, I mostly shoot one day matches with maybe one two day match. So squad size is normally 7-10 shooters. On a stage I’m on my glass for 5-8 shooters, only time I’m off my binos is when I’m shooting or up next and double checking my stuff.

trident512789 said:

Yes i know, focus on getting hits first. However I am stuggling to aquire targets and get shots off in a timely manner. Average about 5 shots a stage 105 par.
What I have been focusing on (Spotting Missing, WIP)
Fundamentals: Make the easy shots Give me a fat target prone *PING*
Health. Just getting my physical fitness up to par.

Things that need to get better:
Position building--still lots of wobble--I can practice this at home though, so this is a skill I can work on.
Target acquisition, somehow I can never get my rifle on target in a timely manner. I zoom out at the start, but because targets are so hard to see sometimes I can't even recognize the grey target. I NEED HELP HERE (Yes I have a brand new prescription glasses, so that has been checked)
Speed. 10 stages, < 50 shots. Hit percentage was awful as well, but I'm leaving points on the table. So yes, 100% hit is great but at some point I can't spend all 100 seconds on 1 target. Any advice for a balance? I NEED HELP HERE.

Didn't help that I RO'd yesterday, so my focus was not on targets (that's on me) but my speed has been very consistently slow even if I'm at 50% hit rate (which I have done).

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You mention that you are experiencing lots of wobble. What shooting bag are you using?

Do you have your rifle balanced? Are there any positions that are worse for you with the instability?

Mudflap621 said:

I think once you get target acquisition down you will want to move up in power to be able to see shots. I typically run around 17x. Being able to put your rifle down and your target be within your FOV will save you a ton of time. I almost always come off the gun in target transitions this way I look over top of rifle, point rifle desired location, drop down into scope and new target should be within FOV.

Once you can consistently place rifle down and be on target I would start slowly start increasing magnification as you progress.

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I disagree. At least for me early on I wanted to make the target bigger, and as I went on I was shooting on lower and lower power. Unless, of course, its 1000 yards or more, and then I do need some more power. But for most stages that under 1000 I find 10-12 is best and almost never mess with the throw lever...ymmv

Fig said:

I disagree. At least for me early on I wanted to make the target bigger, and as I went on I was shooting on lower and lower power. Unless, of course, its 1000 yards or more, and then I do need some more power. But for most stages that under 1000 I find 10-12 is best and almost never mess with the throw lever...ymmv

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Fair enough to disagree and I am jealous you can resolve enough at that power to make minute adjustments on plate, unfortunately I cannot.

If it try to zoom in and zoom out for transitions I’m too slow. I generally dial everything unless it’s a no dial stage so I only have to pay attention to wind.

Oddly enough I find myself using more power on NRL22 with those itty bitty targets.

Why would you zoom in or out? There is no reason to touch magnification ring durring a stage unless you suck at finding targets.

I set mine around 20-22x at beginning of match after zeroing and usually don't touch it unless I'm shootingn a long bomb prone stage, then I'll crank her up to about 30x for the extra detail.

I run a holosun on a pic rail diving board above my scope. Aside from target acquisition it also has allowed me to run a higher power without getting lost. Prior to the red dot I'd be down in the 18x range, now I'm between 20 and 25x most of the time.

Fig said:

If it try to zoom in and zoom out for transitions I’m too slow. I generally dial everything unless it’s a no dial stage so I only have to pay attention to wind.

Oddly enough I find myself using more power on NRL22 with those itty bitty targets.

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So can you resolve where you hit on target? I don’t adjust zoom at all I want to aim and shoot and be able to see where my bullet lands to make adjustments.

Meh, I'm generalizing. If I can't spot hits on the target I don't have enough power and will throw more, for sure. If it's late in the match and there is no paint left I'll need more too, but it will slow me down, hopefully not enough to not get all the shots off.

What I can't do is shoot a chaos stage in and out and left and right trying to throw and reduce power. I'd rather be able to find the target quickly. I also glass and spot anytime I'm not shooting or on deck. If you're not first or second it's dumb not to watch your competitors bang the targets. It'll look a lot more familiar when it's your turn.

Kinda leads into my point. If struggling with target acquisition I’d work on that at a lower power first. Once this skill progresses you will ultimately want to up the power to gain resolution on target. The more familiar one gets with point and shoot will lead to the ability to run the higher power before the clock starts.

I have fancy scopes with high clarity. I can easily see impacts on painted steel at 600yds on 10X. We're going round and round. But, your point is valid. Spotting hits (and misses) is critical. If you can't see them there's no choice but more power.

I would be very interested to hear what the guys on the leaderboards do. I've always thought that none of them run on high power or mess with the throw on their scopes much...but, I may be wrong.

Anyone can see hits on painted steel. More and more matches don't paint steel anymore and after the first couple squads it might as well be unpainted as well.

It's a target acquisition issue. Fix that and everything else falls into place.

If you shot matches you would see what they are shooting on. It's a small community. All you have to do is look at their gun and see where they are before and after a stage. Guys rarely touch the magnification ring.

I ran 20x+ pretty much 100% of the time

Troop lines, movers, all if it…for my eye it was easier to be sure of corrections and reticle holds vs tryin to see/focus on a smaller reticle

I’m also very left eye dominant and shoot right handed so that might be a factor for me

Always practiced like mentioned above…Find it with the Eye, Kill it with the Scope

trident512789 said:

Cattle Gates in particular are pretty nasty. I've been working on the baricade to get better and looking at using a tripod for some stages. ALso anytime (as a tall person) I have to bend over things get worse. I know my body is beat up after a match and I need some more conditioning to help. Being old sucks!

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A few thoughts from a septuagenarian with well-worn body (hopefully Santa has a new hip in his bag this year).

• Someone asked if your rifle is balanced. Ideally, if you set your bag on a barricade position with your rifle atop it, the rifle will balance there - ideal balance point is a few inches in front of the mag well. Realistically, this usually doesn't happen unless weights are added to chassis stocks or the butt is lighter in molded stocks with internal chassis.
• When you put your bag and rifle on a barricade-type prop, set it down from the outset with the rifle pushed as far forward as possible (make sure the mag doesn't get jammed and cause a misfeed) - goal is to put the rifle down on its balance point and not have to waste time wiggling it around. I admire the guys who, at the timer beep, approach the barricade, plop bag&rifle down while looking at target over scope, drop their heads onto the stock, close the bolt, BANG - in less than ten seconds. Smooth, efficient movement.
• Square your body and shoulders as much as possible. Chest parallel to the prop. With my limited range of motion, this can be difficult. But I learned from a high-ranked senior shooter to square up with legs or knees directly under my shoulders when in position on the prop - don't lean into it.
• Finding the target(s): As written already, you really need to glass the targets beforehand and locate landmakrs near them which can be seen with the naked eye. The top shooters I mentioned are eyeballing these landmarks over the scope as they move into position, and by the time they're settled, they are ready to drop into the scope and the target will be Right There.
• Scope magnification: lots of opinions. Low magnification (10x). High magnification (20x). Ok, whatever works. But I will say this: I do not know ANY top-shelf competitor who touches the magnification or parallax ring At All on the clock, EVER. I'm comfortable at 12-15x. On the first stage in my first match seven years ago, I had my scope (gen-1 Razor) set at max (20x). Targets were along a fire road at 350-750 yards or so. Long par time. No matter. I was looking for targets through a figurative soda straw... there's one!... BANG. RO: Wrong target! Repeat until timeout.
• Transitioning across props: PRACTICE MOVING. USE A TIMER. I've mentored a few new shooters over the past few years. Inevitably, they want to shoot little groups or distant targets off a bench or from prone. They kinda start seeing the light when I have them transition across a set of barrels or multiple levels of a barricade. Then - inevitably - I pull out the shot timer, it beeps, they go, and they panic. Predictable as the sunrise. One or two just refused to practice the skills they needed; I remember one guy who bought a really nice rig, ignored advice to do "realistic" practice, went to a few of matches, finished last or near last, got really mad, and disappeared.

At the end of it all, you have to PRACTICE this stuff. Reading tips is helpful. Gaining experience is mandatory.

Good luck. Enjoy the journey.

Thanks to the OP for the question and all those that answered.

I’m gonna be doing my first match next week and have been reading everything I can and trying to implement as much as I can of it.

- Work the bolt faster



- Your bag. The right fabric, fill product and %, and knowing how to manipulate the bag, if I ever am in the position to train someone new this is lessons 1, 2, 3 and 4. Move the rifle and bag independently of each other to new positions this may seem counterintuitive to greasy fast speed, but it’s the mini movements that rob people of time, if you pick your bag up with how your gonna put your bag down in mind, and take 1-3 extra seconds per transition (at first) to make sure that bag is money you’re gonna be fine, you won’t fight the bag, you’ll wobble much less and start spotting much easier. And take that gamer plate with the flat bag off for positional stuff, (if you use one) and ditch the pump pillow, they are all crutches and take more time to fuck with. Learn the bag, it’s the foundation. Time/wobble/spotting ALL can be improved by nice bag work.

- Move less (frequently). Figure every movement you do is 1 second no matter how fast, Don’t stutter step, don’t make 6 micro adjustments to widen your stance, just get there.



- the first one was bullshit

Target acquisition will help you the most it sounds like. Bring binoculars and a tripod to identify targets before your turn to shoot. Make mental notes about landmarks in relationship to the targets. I usually use the horizon if possible, hills, draws, mountains, trees, whatever terrain features you can use to walk you into the target location. Multiple times before you go up count the targets out in your head and find their location with your naked eye. Audibly count it out, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... Review that process with binoculars to further verify location while looking through optics. Later on when this process is familiar you can also use it to spot other shooters' splash and wind information at the target. Watching other shooters engage the targets in order is free practice at finding them in order while gaining that information.

Target acquisition with the rifle comes down to familiarity. I personally recommend you set your optic to 12-15x and FORGET IT GOES HIGHER unless you absolutely need it. Zooming down to 6-8x then back up to 20+ is a complete time suck especially for newer shooters. Set it to 14x and spend a few days practicing eye-muzzle-target and figuring out the relationship to point in the right place that you can find the target once you pop into the scope. The previous paragraph will help with this insomuch as becoming aware of surrounding terrain features around the target so that you can navigate your way to the target if you're off.

Stability on target (wobble). A medium/large heavy sand-filled bag is low hanging fruit. They're a pain in the ass to haul around but it's immediately notable how much more stable the rifle is with something like an AG Schmedium gamechanger. Wiebad, AG, etc... many people make great bags. Something in that size range, waxed, with fine grain heavy fill sand. Toss the bag onto the barricade leaving a portion (1-2") of the bag hanging off the edge closest to yourself. Push the magazine of the rifle (or barricade stop if you need one) into the bag and shoulder the rifle. At that point it's a point of personal preference with your left arm to pinch the stock to the bag or to pull the rifle down/back into the bag via the front scope ring area. If at all ever possible put your strong-side knee UP and rest your strong side elbow on it. This is another thing that comes with practice. The more square you keep your shoulders to the target the better you will be able to spot your shots through recoil. Except for very gusty/windy days you can get wobble down to inside of 0.1mil on most barricades. Understand that is possible and figure out how to achieve it. Rifle balance is very important as discussed up above. Mine end up 2-3" in front of the magazine. It's a total gamer move but more weight doesn't hurt. At some point around 22-24lb it gets cumbersome for me... At some point below ~17lb I start seeing more instability. YMMV.

Don't pull the trigger until the reticle is where you want it.

I don't shoot much PRS anymore, but there are others here that do that may chime in.

But here's a couple of thoughts from my perspective:

- Spend time looking at the targets with the human eye and through optics. Get really familiar with where the target is, using landmarks to provide context around the target location (could be structures, geographical features, or more commonly vegetation). Get comfortable transitioning from just the eye to optics and gaining quick target acquisition, before you are even on deck. When you are shooting, find the target (or the area where you know it is based off of context) with your eye and then go to the scope.

- A lot of speed in PRS comes from knowing how to build a stable position quickly, and economy of motion for stage transitions. This comes with practice. Watch how a lot of experienced shooters tackle a stage, and pay attention to how they are building their positions and their movements during transitions. You can do this during matches, and by watching older matches on YouTube. You will find movements are intentful and efficient, and there's very little waste. You don't go fast in PRS by running the bolt fast.

- Have a stage plan. Before you shoot a stage, develop a plan on how you are going to tackle it. What your positions will be, how you will make up that position, and how you will get to and from that position. Go through it in your head multiple times before its your turn to shoot, so you don't even have to think about it, and can instead focus on execution.

- Keep it simple. I think where most newer shooters struggle is by using too much equipment, and not having a stage plan. A lot of stages can be shoot effectively with just a barricade bag. Don't drag the tripod around every single stage. It's another thing to focus on, and from what I've seen using a tripod for rear support typically hurts more than it helps, and is commonly used by newer shooters as a crutch.

I agree that you need to practice target acquisition. That's likely your biggest time killer. You should be able to leave the zoom on 16 ish.
As stated, find shit in the background you can see with your naked eye that will bring you to the target, the more you practice the better you'll get at it.

You need to see a doctor about your right eye not working before you re-learn to shoot left-handed.

There's a ton of little things that can crop up in your eyeballs that are quick, easy fixes. Don't just assume it's gonna be trash forever or super expensive without even going in and getting seen.

Also, make sure your blood sugar isn't randomly sky high, even if you've previously been completely fine with that stuff. For a small percentage of "otherwise healthy" adults, your body will wake up one day, choose violence, and wreck your beta cells - neat. Your sugars will go up and eventually, your eyes get funny because of it.

trident512789 said:

Cattle Gates in particular are pretty nasty. I've been working on the baricade to get better and looking at using a tripod for some stages. ALso anytime (as a tall person) I have to bend over things get worse. I know my body is beat up after a match and I need some more conditioning to help. Being old sucks!

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Be sure to use your legs instead of your back. In other words, rather than bend over, spread your feet and legs apart to make yourself shorter. This not only reduces the muscle fatigue in the back but it also helps to create a much more stable position. This is still true if you have to be on your knees...spread those legs like you have big brass ones.

Yoga be yer friend. Find a yoga class/coach. Stretching exercises, controlled breathing. Don't forget good cardio while you are not on the trigger. Jog around and then try to hold the reticle steady...you will need to control your breathing as a conscious effort. Yoga breathing exercises help with this. It's real mental.

All this is from a non-competitive shooter. I really have come to a point that I don't like to compete at stuff I enjoy doing. It takes some of the fun out it all for me and starts being a task (practice) I have to do. That does not mean I have never competed at anything. Trust me on the yoga, if nothing else.

The target acquisition... use a scope without a rifle and look at stuff then pull that scope up. If you don't see it almost immediately, pull the scope down and do it all again. SLOWER. SLOW, conscious and with purpose. I have found that using both eyes open helps tremendously. I can see the target and while looking the target, focusing on looking at it with my left (non scope) eye, when the scope finds it, my right eye just takes over the view. But...I still to this day have to rethink and focus on making both of my eyes open. I will open them real wide on purpose. Like fright night, eyes wide open. This helps allow light in and also helps me concentrate on using the left (non-scope) eye to view that target. Do the same thing with your comp rifle. Find a target, then slowly bring that rifle and scope up while never taking your left eye off of it. With practice, you will do all of this faster. But practice doing it SLOWLY, purposefully.

Well, glad to hear you've been (or are headed back to) primary care, but yeah dude, especially if you've already had a rough time with blood sugar in the past you need to go to an optometrist or similar specialist as soon as you can.

I know those appointments aren't fun, but do yourself the biggest favor you can and knock it out asap. Hang in there, best of luck.