6.5 Grendel Barrels selection (late) 2023?

penguinofsleep · Oct 13, 2023

Looking at possibly getting a new 6.5 Grendel AR barrel with the following, would like to know if anyone has experience or other recommendations:

- approx $400-500 or less, willing to wait until a sale if needed
- doesn't need to be in stock today, but would like to receive within 3-4 of ordering
- Have something 20", ~32-36oz, 5/8x24 threaded barrel, 0.750 gas journal diameter
- consistent 0.8 MOA or less groups
- will be using existing small parts, mostly JP, including bolt + carrier
- will mostly shoot 123 ELD-M projectiles at 50-600 yards, paper and steel. May try an occasional 100-110 gr copper bullet later. no suppressor anytime soon.

Wanted to go with Criterion initially but it seems like they only have 18 and 22" options. Looking at X-caliber, Shilen, and Lilja right now but wondering if there are other options right now. Also considering BHW as well although feedback and past experience (diff cal) tells me that the consistent <0.8MOA part may be a slight crap shoot.

Currently using a 20" Fluted Grendel Hunter, but after about 350 rounds through it, it only shoots about 1.1-1.3 inch groups at 100yd right now with various powders, including CFE223, and 123 ELD-M. Hornady Black ELD-M shoots about 1.1" as well at 100. Haven't tried "all" of the seating depths yet, but just based on what I'm seeing elsewhere, it seems likely that the most limiting factor is the barrel right now.

WindstormSCR · Oct 13, 2023

X-caliber has never done me wrong, and the fluting options they offer allow weight reduction without affecting accuracy much. I personally go straight flute, even number if odd rifle twist (5R) or odd number if even grooved (6g) to reduce potential harmonics.

I'd suggest if you want maximum accuracy though, buy a bolt from them with the barrel so you know the two are headspaced correctly and matched.

JS8588 · Oct 13, 2023

Proof Research PR15 20″ 6.5 Grendel Rifle Length 1/8 Twist AR15 Barrel

We have designed our AR barrels with the goal of improving performance and reliability in the AR platform. Our Caliber Matched Gas System (CAMGAS) results in a gas system that is tuned specifically for the cartridge and length of the…

bkingsfirearms.com

CaptNemo · Oct 13, 2023

Compass Lake Engineering.
Depending on the barrel blank, you may get to your budgetary $ figure.
Not sure what their current lead time is, but they have been worth the wait.
ETA:

AR-15 6.5 GRENDEL BARRELS STAINLESS STEEL | Brownells

The Brownells 6.5 Grendel AR-15 barrel provides AR rifle owners with a high-quality barrel option that provides peak performance at an affordable price. The Brownells 6.5 Grendel AR-15 barrel is constructed from 416-R stainless-steel bar stock and...

www.brownells.com

I bought one of these barrels ( Satern / Liberty Button Rifled Blank ) in an 18" / Rifle Gas configuration about 7 years ago.
It will defiantly shoot with both Hornady Black and with handloads - Best handloaded 5 shot group with a 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip over CFE223 is about 0.375" C / C .
God smiled on me that day to prove a point to my daughter that "It's not the rifle".

LRRPF52 · Oct 13, 2023

Here’s how I break down barrel price point/value/performance for 6.5 Grendel barrels:

Bartleins and Kriegers cut by Precision Firearms. You’ll be in the $675-$775 range depending on what you order and options.

Proof Research carbon-wrapped Bartlein in the $900-$1000 region.

Lilja turned and chambered by Precision Firearms for $675

JP Enterprises for $529 (included enhanced bolt)

Satern Cut-Rifled 6.5 Grendel $523

LaRue (complete uppers and rifles) $800-$2100

Shilen heavy match 20” for $510

Lilja drop-in barrels from Lilja $525-$665, or the industry sub forum here $435

Criterion cut by Precision Firearms for $345 (this is one of the best bangs for your money)

Alexander Arms $285-$330 fluted (another great deal)

Odin Works 20” $323

Wilson Combat $250-$305

Faxon $235-$319

SixFive Outfitters $150-$200

I have owned and/or tested samples of all of the above except for Wilson, Odin, and maybe Shilen. I might have built or Cerakoted a 20” Shilen once, can’t recall now. I have shot Wilson Combat .223 AR-15s before, and thought they were pretty much top of the line in the early 2000s. I modeled my build approach for ARs from the early 2000s off of Wilson in terms of fit/feel of the receivers, lighter weight/medium fluted barrels, and coatings with free-float of course.

The most accurate, precision bolt gun-level bug-hole shooting uppers and barrels in Grendel I have shot and tested have been Bartlein from Precision Firearms. We’re talking beyond giggle, into “nobody is going to believe me if I show them these groups” type accuracy.

Proof is great for a really lightweight rifle if you go the CF route, and they shoot extremely well too.

I have 22”, 17.6”, and 16.5” Lilja Grendels. The 22” is bull, heavy, fluted. The 17.6” and 16” are really lightweight Wasp profile barrels with .650” thin under the handguard, then step up to .750/.740” like an M16A2.

The 17.6” shoots 4rd groups into bug holes, 5rd into .75” to 1”, and 10rd groups into 1.2”-1.5”. I have shot 8” groups at 1000yds with it, recorded and witnessed.

The 16” Lilja shoots .5” with match ammo, .75” with PPU 120gr, and .8” with 123gr SST.

I built a lot of 16” and 18” fluted Alexander Arms uppers for people several years ago, and they were all shooters, very pleasant-handling even being so light. They shot .6” to .9” with different Hornady ammo, including 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SST.

My complete LaRue Stealth 6.5 Grendel 18” FDE limited run rifle shoots great as well. The barrel is more of a heavy/medium contour and the rifle is fit superbly-well, with lots of attention to detail you have to hold and feel to appreciate. Wish he still offered that. The handguard mate-up to the upper receiver doesn’t touch the barrel nut at all, and the action is super slick. Funnel mag well and billet receiver fit is really tight, and the furniture is really nice.

I have a 12” build and did another one using the same barrel from Faxon through the forum group buy. Both of these 12” Grendels shoot anywhere from .7” to 1” at 100yds with multiple factory and hand loads, including 123gr ELD-M, 90gr TNT from Federal, and 107gr SMK on 8208 XBR. The only load that shot outside of 1” for me so far was the Federal 120gr Open Tipped Match American Eagle, but I have still used that to shoot steel buffalo at 800yds 9/10 hits.

Just off the top of my head, if money isn’t a concern, the 20” Proof is nice for both accuracy and lightweight.
For no-BS super accuracy, the Precision Firearms Bartlein, Krieger, and Lilja options are bragging rights shooters.

JP Enterprises makes a light contour, heavy fore end barrel that can have the ventilator fins attached to it.

For mid-grade performance and price, the AA and PF Criterion are great, along with LaRue.

For economy price but quality and correct dimensions in critical areas, Faxon and SixFive Outfitters can’t be beat.

Avoid things that are lower than that unless it’s a special sale from one of the others I mentioned. There are a few companies I have bad experiences with that I didn’t list or mention.

It’s hard to go wrong with anything in the above list, as long as your accuracy expectations align with the price point.

bigjake83 · Oct 14, 2023

LRRPF52 said:
The most accurate, precision bolt gun-level bug-hole shooting uppers and barrels in Grendel I have shot and tested have been Bartlein from Precision Firearms. We’re talking beyond giggle, into “nobody is going to believe me if I show them these groups” type accuracy.

My Les Baer .264 was that for me, Have you tried any a Craddock or CLE Bartlein Grendel's?

JP is definitely the best option for the easy button choice, I've done several JP Grendel builds over the years and I've always been impressed with how well they shoot such a wide spectrum of factory ammo.

LRRPF52 · Oct 14, 2023

bigjake83 said:
My Les Baer .264 was that for me, Have you tried any a Craddock or CLE Bartlein Grendel's?

JP is definitely the best option for the easy button choice, I've done several JP Grendel builds over the years and I've always been impressed with how well they shoot such a wide spectrum of factory ammo.

I have never tested a Craddock, CLE Bartlein, or a X-Caliber 6.5 Grendel pipe.

One of the 20” PF Bartleins I was accuracy-testing kept putting rounds through the same freaking hole. I looked over at the 50rd cartridge box and was into at least 3 rows (5 each) before the group opened up to .6” when a guy next to me cranked off a round with his JP tank brake right as I was breaking another shot.

I personally don’t get too hung-up on 100yd groups though because if a rifle will shoot 1 MOA for 5-10rds out of the gate, I move on to shooting steel at distance. If it won’t group 1 MOA out of the gate and seems finicky, I just don’t have the time to waste on it trying to mess with it. With gas prices and ammo/components are what they are, I prefer to leave each shooting experience with a smile on my face.

This is one of the main reasons I spend a little more on barrels. I have rolled the dice before on some lower priced pipes in shorter barrels and landed on sixes. I’ve also tried to get other people’s uppers to shoot with low-mid priced barrels that simply were a total waste of my time and money, as well as theirs.

I’ve also dealt with being the default CS for brands who don’t seem to have CS that like to sell barrels at tent stake prices, so I’ve learned which companies to avoid. If they don’t take their products seriously, I won’t either.

Jsp556 · Oct 14, 2023

The 2 most accurate/precise Grendel’s I’ve ever seen, 1 had a PF Bartlein and the other had a cut rifled Satern.

The last 3 I’ve put together were 16” guns, 1 with a Wilson Combat barrel and 2 using Triarc barrels. All shoot Hornady Black 123ELD’s just under MOA (5 rd groups) off a bench. Good enough for blasting Ga white tails and pigs.

bobke · Oct 15, 2023

Have 7 Grendels that stay in a pretty constant rotation, with 2 Satern cut rifled barrels-20/24”, 2 Wilson’s-20/22”, an 18” JP, a 20” Proof CF and a converted Bartlein from a 6.5x47 barrel. They all have their preferred loads, but the Proof, JP and Satern cut barrels are the easiest to load for, with .4-.6” groups within reach if I’m doing my job. The converted Bartlein is a .75” barrel and the Wilson’s better than MOA, but more specific in what they shoot best. If I ever find need, or burn up one of these, would like to try a new Bartlein or Krieger from PF.

DHDeal · Oct 20, 2023

Craddockprecision.com if you want a Bartlein (who doesn't). They would fit into your criteria more or less. I have 2 Craddock chambered barrels and both are smile producing every time I shoot them.

A Proof SS 20" was a good choice for me too. With the .750 GB it isn't too heavy and has always shot well (call it a reliably 3/4 MOA and slightly better). Less expensive than the Craddock Bartlein barrels and it was in stock when I wanted one.

I also have an older Satern cut rifled barrel that was always a great barrel but heavy.

My experiences with a few Alexander Arms barrels wasn't as good as with the cut rifled barrels. I'll leave that where it is.

The Rainier Ultra Match is another choice (there is some understandable dislike for them on here) but the longest available is an 18". I understand they are a Criterion blank finished by Craddock. I have one in 300BO and it is awesome.

Wile_Coyote · Oct 21, 2023

I would take a look at Wilson Combat. The 6mm Creedmoor barrel I have shot really well. The are not bad at all for the price.

FWoo45 · Oct 21, 2023

LRRPF52 said:
Here’s how I break down barrel price point/value/performance for 6.5 Grendel barrels:

Bartleins and Kriegers cut by Precision Firearms. You’ll be in the $675-$775 range depending on what you order and options.

Proof Research carbon-wrapped Bartlein in the $900-$1000 region.

Lilja turned and chambered by Precision Firearms for $675

JP Enterprises for $529 (included enhanced bolt)

Satern Cut-Rifled 6.5 Grendel $523

LaRue (complete uppers and rifles) $800-$2100

Shilen heavy match 20” for $510

Lilja drop-in barrels from Lilja $525-$665, or the industry sub forum here $435

Criterion cut by Precision Firearms for $345 (this is one of the best bangs for your money)

Alexander Arms $285-$330 fluted (another great deal)

Odin Works 20” $323

Wilson Combat $250-$305

Faxon $235-$319

SixFive Outfitters $150-$200

I have owned and/or tested samples of all of the above except for Wilson, Odin, and maybe Shilen. I might have built or Cerakoted a 20” Shilen once, can’t recall now. I have shot Wilson Combat .223 AR-15s before, and thought they were pretty much top of the line in the early 2000s. I modeled my build approach for ARs from the early 2000s off of Wilson in terms of fit/feel of the receivers, lighter weight/medium fluted barrels, and coatings with free-float of course.

The most accurate, precision bolt gun-level bug-hole shooting uppers and barrels in Grendel I have shot and tested have been Bartlein from Precision Firearms. We’re talking beyond giggle, into “nobody is going to believe me if I show them these groups” type accuracy.

Proof is great for a really lightweight rifle if you go the CF route, and they shoot extremely well too.

I have 22”, 17.6”, and 16.5” Lilja Grendels. The 22” is bull, heavy, fluted. The 17.6” and 16” are really lightweight Wasp profile barrels with .650” thin under the handguard, then step up to .750/.740” like an M16A2.

The 17.6” shoots 4rd groups into bug holes, 5rd into .75” to 1”, and 10rd groups into 1.2”-1.5”. I have shot 8” groups at 1000yds with it, recorded and witnessed.

The 16” Lilja shoots .5” with match ammo, .75” with PPU 120gr, and .8” with 123gr SST.

I built a lot of 16” and 18” fluted Alexander Arms uppers for people several years ago, and they were all shooters, very pleasant-handling even being so light. They shot .6” to .9” with different Hornady ammo, including 123gr A-MAX, 123gr SST.

My complete LaRue Stealth 6.5 Grendel 18” FDE limited run rifle shoots great as well. The barrel is more of a heavy/medium contour and the rifle is fit superbly-well, with lots of attention to detail you have to hold and feel to appreciate. Wish he still offered that. The handguard mate-up to the upper receiver doesn’t touch the barrel nut at all, and the action is super slick. Funnel mag well and billet receiver fit is really tight, and the furniture is really nice.

I have a 12” build and did another one using the same barrel from Faxon through the forum group buy. Both of these 12” Grendels shoot anywhere from .7” to 1” at 100yds with multiple factory and hand loads, including 123gr ELD-M, 90gr TNT from Federal, and 107gr SMK on 8208 XBR. The only load that shot outside of 1” for me so far was the Federal 120gr Open Tipped Match American Eagle, but I have still used that to shoot steel buffalo at 800yds 9/10 hits.

Just off the top of my head, if money isn’t a concern, the 20” Proof is nice for both accuracy and lightweight.
For no-BS super accuracy, the Precision Firearms Bartlein, Krieger, and Lilja options are bragging rights shooters.

JP Enterprises makes a light contour, heavy fore end barrel that can have the ventilator fins attached to it.

For mid-grade performance and price, the AA and PF Criterion are great, along with LaRue.

For economy price but quality and correct dimensions in critical areas, Faxon and SixFive Outfitters can’t be beat.

Avoid things that are lower than that unless it’s a special sale from one of the others I mentioned. There are a few companies I have bad experiences with that I didn’t list or mention.

It’s hard to go wrong with anything in the above list, as long as your accuracy expectations align with the price point.

Reading your stuff over on the Grendal forum led me to a PF Bartlein for my build years ago. I couldn't be happier with the results. I am happily the weak link.

Devildog6.5G · Nov 27, 2023

My first was an Odin for package price. I am very satisfied with it. The 2nd and 3rd were X-Caliber cut rifled 5 groove. I am very impressed and satisfied with them. I also have an ARC in the same X-Caliber configuration. You won't go wrong with these. With handloads, and I'm not the most experienced hand loader and I get Sub MOA. Hope this helped some.

Rancid Coolaid · Nov 27, 2023

I have 2 Rainier Ultra Match in 6.5G, have been great barrels for accuracy.

Why is there "understandable dislike" for them here?

hlee · Nov 27, 2023

Rancid Coolaid said:
I have 2 Rainier Ultra Match in 6.5G, have been great barrels for accuracy.

Why is there "understandable dislike" for them here?

Politics. They complied with a subpoena from NY State for customer records.

pangris · Jun 24, 2024

Craddock is putting some stuff together for me right meow, and word is he's about to run some Grendel barrels - 13.9", .750" diameter threaded 5/8x24.

Jsp556 · Jun 25, 2024

pangris said:
Craddock is putting some stuff together for me right meow, and word is he's about to run some Grendel barrels - 13.9", .750" diameter threaded 5/8x24.

Not that I need another one, but I’d like to see some 16” intermediate gas Grendels in his RTR line up.

pangris · Jun 25, 2024

I think this essentially is the 16" barrel from a market demand standpoint. The gain of the functional 2" is minimal and this will allow for a muzzle device to get you to 16" - I've been surprised at how little gain I get from 12.5" to 20", i.e. about 250-300 FPS depending on load. If I'm serious about anchoring a large mammal like a buck or I'm traveling by vehicle more than I'm walking, I'll tolerate it, but for the Grendel I'm very much at the point that I think the 13.9" might be the sweet spot where you'll probably be kissing 2350-2500 depending on your load, and don't have to SBR etc.

Rancid Coolaid · Jun 25, 2024

Counterpoint: if you have already SBRed a lower, a 10.5-12 with a can is titties for intermediate shots that you want to hit with more authority than a 223/5.56. I have an 18” longer range rifle and a 10.5” for <300 and the 10.5 spends lots more time afield.
Add to that, it is foldable/packable and is a great host for a thermal pre-dawn shooter, in the event a bobcat or coyote wander into my AO before the big gun go boom.
I like the round for what it is, and it doesn’t lose steam in short barrels as much as other options do.

pangris · Jun 25, 2024

Amen brother. I'm running them in 12.5" as well - I think that is the point of diminishing returns. Hydrostatic shock isn't much of a thing until 2200 FPS and with the 12.5" I'm starting at 2300 with the 120-ish loads, a little better with the Underwood/100gr stuff.

With that said there does come a point where I think the 14" mark, with the 100 gr ammo, might be the way if you only had one...

flogxal · Jun 25, 2024

I have an OdinWorks 20" DMR and a Six Sigma Arms/Lilja 16". Both shoot very well with decent factory ammo, like Hornady Black 123gr. The Lilja is a bit better with lesser ammo. The OdinWorks was just over 1 MOA with Wolf steel case 100gr ball ammo, but not quite as good with any other lesser ammo. Lilja did well with PPU 110gr and 120gr (NEMO) where the OW didn't much like either of those.

River44 · Jun 25, 2024

I’ve got a 20" Satern Liberty that’s shoots .5 3-shot groups, just ordered a cut rifle from Satern in 20" as well

Jsp556 · Jun 25, 2024

pangris said:
I think this essentially is the 16" barrel from a market demand standpoint. The gain of the functional 2" is minimal and this will allow for a muzzle device to get you to 16" - I've been surprised at how little gain I get from 12.5" to 20", i.e. about 250-300 FPS depending on load. If I'm serious about anchoring a large mammal like a buck or I'm traveling by vehicle more than I'm walking, I'll tolerate it, but for the Grendel I'm very much at the point that I think the 13.9" might be the sweet spot where you'll probably be kissing 2350-2500 depending on your load, and don't have to SBR etc.

I hate pinned and welded muzzle devices. I’ll take the velocity and slight overall length penalty of a 16” carbine over the pin and weld. If you have a registered sbr, run it short enough to justify the stamp.

pangris · Jun 25, 2024

Maybe sometimes not having to pin and weld, which you'd hate, while maximizing the point of diminishing returns is the justification for the stamp

Depending on application, I understand everything from 10" to 24" but if I could only have one Grendel, I'd be OK with anything between 12.5-14.5.

Rancid Coolaid · Jun 26, 2024

I am of the opinion that 14.5 is about perfect for all-around AR; and, in that context, a pinned and welded 14.5 that runs a suppressor host brake is the best of all options. I generally hate pinned and welded, but love it on a 14.5, because it means I can efficiently run my can and don’t have to bother with informing local law enforcement or worrying about them getting involved in my SBR business.
On the Grendel, I think 12 inches is my preference (don’t make it weird) given my needs. Grendel is no superstar cartridge, but it hits harder than 223 and it carries energy better than 300BO - and was more available than 6.8SPC, but I see that change in the wind.

bigjake83 · Jun 26, 2024

Rancid Coolaid said:
I think 12 inches is my preference (don’t make it weird)

Too late..

pangris · Jun 26, 2024

Rancid Coolaid said:
and was more available than 6.8SPC, but I see that change in the wind.

Same same. I don't get that concerend about the two inches between 12.5-14.5 regardless of which.

I keep waiting to see the 6.8 make a comeback.

I say the Grendel may not be a superstar, but might be MVP. If I could only have one (and ammo supply wasn't a concern) Grendel all day.

Bigjake83, well played

pangris · Jul 18, 2024

RTR 6.5 Grendel 13.9" The Pangris

craddockprecision.com

While I have no financial interest in these, I feel obligated to push them since they're my namesake :^)

Available in .750 and .625 ultralight - can't wait to get mine in hand.

Jsp556 · Jul 19, 2024

pangris said:
RTR 6.5 Grendel 13.9" The Pangris

craddockprecision.com

While I have no financial interest in these, I feel obligated to push them since they're my namesake :^)

Available in .750 and .625 ultralight - can't wait to get mine in hand.

Guess I’ll see how they shoot as well. Placed an order for one with the .750 gas block.

I hate pinned muzzle devices….

pangris · Jul 19, 2024

I get that. I'm not thrilled about that myself and I'm debating what to p/w vs run on SBR lowers.

Regardless, it does allow for the use of a 5" can that then is relatively compact for the end result regarding weight and capability. Law aside, a good 14" barrel is a sweet spot for the caliber.

Jsp556 · Jul 19, 2024

I wonder what blanks they used for these?

pangris · Jul 19, 2024

I believe Rock Creek for the blanks

Edited - I'd said Mike Rock. Incorrect way of naming the company.

TonyTheTiger · Jul 20, 2024

pangris said:
I believe Mike Rock for the blanks

Rock Creek barrels is just up the highway from me, and local scuttlebutt is that Mike has been retired for some time. I can't remember whose in charge these days.

Jsp556 · Jul 20, 2024

I had heard he has been gone from rock creek for quite a while now. I didn’t know he was involved with another company.

KitShickers · Aug 29, 2024

What 13.9" and 14.5"s are available besides the rtr, lilja and the Rexus? Looking for options in the 13.9"-14.5" range.

Rancid Coolaid · Aug 29, 2024

I've had great luck with Rainier 6.5G barrels, I know they have several length options, I own a 18" and a 12", I think - both shoot lights-out.

River44 · Aug 29, 2024

Precision Firearms has bartlein blanks that you can in those lengths

KitShickers said:
What 13.9" and 14.5"s are available besides the rtr, lilja and the Rexus? Looking for options in the 13.9"-14.5" range.

JS8588 · Aug 29, 2024

KitShickers said:
What 13.9" and 14.5"s are available besides the rtr, lilja and the Rexus? Looking for options in the 13.9"-14.5" range.

SOLGW

Jsp556 · Aug 30, 2024

Craddock just added 18” RTR 6.5 Grendel barrels to their site

Jsp556 · Aug 30, 2024

Rancid Coolaid said:
I've had great luck with Rainier 6.5G barrels, I know they have several length options, I own a 18" and a 12", I think - both shoot lights-out.

I have one of the 18” “Match” barrels. It shoots really good groups.

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