What are your techniques for muzzle device removal?

Pseudohero · Apr 5, 2024

I have removed at least 20 muzzle devices. I use Chamber lug block or barrel vice and a butane torch with great success….. until I came across my 16” sig spear LT. Removed my sig spear 300 blk easily then came tried this dirty #%##. Have put way more heat and torque than usual on 3 attempts. Haven't tried boiling because I have a torch. Going to give it a try because lower and slower may do it but I doubt it based on my limited understanding of metallurgical stuff. I figure a torch expands the muzzle device circumerentially as you appy more heat to the outside making it “looser” and breaking down the rocksett. The advantage of boiling would be breaking down the rocksett more? I could also use a better barrel clamp as a next step.

Here is a pic of my spear 300 blk for proof I am not a total moron.

Hobo Hilton · Apr 5, 2024

Soak over night with Kroil.
Dry ice on the barrel and heat on the device.
Turn counter clockwise.
Use a flare nut wrench

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Longshot231 · Apr 5, 2024

For and AR-15 I use this:

Real Avid Lug-Lok AR-15 Upper Receiver Vise Block

The upper receiver was not designed to be put in a vise. Yet common upper receiver vise blocks can apply enough inward pressure to deform the upper when...

www.midwayusa.com

supercorndogs · Apr 5, 2024

If it's rocket, it's the water that breaks it down. You are going g to melt it off with a torch before you get the rocket hot enough.

Who put it on? What's holding it on?

Pseudohero · Apr 5, 2024

I am not sure what sig uses. I am going to try some Kroil and then boil.

msgriff · Apr 5, 2024

I would start with the boiling water method, a very strong vise (or shop press) with barrel blocks, the correct sized open end wrench, then whack down with a heavy hammer at the end of the wrench to unscrew.

AustinP69 · Apr 10, 2024

I've always used the boiling water method for 10 mins, no problems

LRRPF52 · Apr 10, 2024

For muzzle device work, I always clamp the barrel with jaw inserts.

I don’t like the idea of applying any torque to the barrel extension. Makes no sense to me at all.

The only 2 components that should have force applied to them are the muzzle device and the barrel.

For muzzle devices that won’t budge like this, it’s usually because they are meant for suppressed use and the manufacturer installed with Rocksett. That requires soaking in water to release.

cas6969 · Apr 10, 2024

Don't get pissed off at the range and use a channel locks and vice grips on it like I did my last one, that's my advice.

Once I got home I put the induction heater around it for just a few seconds and it spun right off. (grumble grumble)

tucaz · Apr 10, 2024

i had a sig virtus that the boiling water worked on. 5-10mins and it came off fairly easy.

i read somewhere that guys where sending back to sig for removal because NOTHING worked. thats a fucked up deal too. shame on sig.

MSTN · Apr 10, 2024

What has no one mentioned extreme profanity?!?

Arc Light · Apr 10, 2024

Butane torch? Do you mean one of those mini torches? I've never had success with those. A propane torch, or MAP gas, has always worked for me. Usually 30 seconds of direct heat is all it has ever taken.

Baron23 · Apr 10, 2024

lol

Pseudohero · Apr 11, 2024

Arc Light said:
Butane torch? Do you mean one of those mini torches? I've never had success with those. A propane torch, or MAP gas, has always worked for me. Usually 30 seconds of direct heat is all it has ever taken.

Propane. Sorry misspoke. It
has worked awesome on every barrel except this one.

tucaz · Apr 12, 2024

Pseudohero said:
Propane. Sorry misspoke. It
has worked awesome on every barrel except this one.

boiling hot water man. 10mins.

Ape_Factory · Apr 12, 2024

I stuck the end in water and left it for two days to soften up the Rocksett. If you haven't removed the barrel and put it in a vice, do so. You can ruin the receiver where the extension pin slots in and indexes as it's aluminum. A few unfortunate owners have ruined their upper receiver.

BCP · Apr 13, 2024

If heats not working try soaking it in water for 10-20mins.

tucaz · Apr 13, 2024

Ape_Factory said:
I stuck the end in water and left it for two days to soften up the Rocksett. If you haven't removed the barrel and put it in a vice, do so. You can ruin the receiver where the extension pin slots in and indexes as it's aluminum. A few unfortunate owners have ruined their upper receiver.

on that topic, i recently looked into the geiselle reaction rod. bought one and have barreled a few things with it and used it for flash hider work

is the much of a down side to using the barrel extension this way and putting force on it?

Ape_Factory · Apr 13, 2024

It's actually the preferred way. I have one for my Sig Cross and need to pick up one for the AR's.

Edit: It's important to know what thread locker is being used. If it's Rocksett, heat doesn't work, only water. So heating it and torquing on it like a gorilla and determining that's not working and then moving onto water just increases the chance you'll damage something.

DeathBeforeDismount · Apr 13, 2024

Reaction rod is a waste of money. Its a rip off of the KAC wrench and Brownell ar action wrench. The Brownell is a fraction of the cost. I had a buddy mill flats on either side to give you another option than the 1/2" drive.

msgriff · Apr 13, 2024

tucaz said:
on that topic, i recently looked into the geiselle reaction rod. bought one and have barreled a few things with it and used it for flash hider work

is the much of a down side to using the barrel extension this way and putting force on it?

I would not use any reaction rod for muzzle devices. They might be fine for MD installation at 20-35 lb-ft , but for removal where considerably higher torque is sometimes required, you run the risk or unthreading the barrel from the extension. Barrel blocks are the preferred method, and you can get them for under $20 including shipping.

edit: sp

Ape_Factory · Apr 13, 2024

I didn't think about that. Good call msgriff.

tucaz · Apr 13, 2024

this KAC wrench? thats different than the geiselle reaction rod. it goes into the barrel extension and locks up on the splines.

i needed it for doing a left handed upper. not many options for lefty shit.

how can using not using for high force applications though.

LRRPF52 · Apr 13, 2024

MSTN said:
What has no one mentioned extreme profanity?!?

Pseudohero · Apr 18, 2024

Kroil, boiling, torch. Still no luck. Have a heavy duty barrel vice en route.

I heard 80 grit sand paper grit on barrel side in the vice works well. Going to give it a shot soon.

91Eunozs · Apr 18, 2024

I only use rocksett because it holds up to high heat, but very easily removed with a long soak in water…or a short dip in boiling water.

Always use a reaction rod in the vice too so rhe torque is transmitted to the strongest part of the upper (the barrel extension) vs the lugs on the receiver.

Pseudohero · Apr 18, 2024

91Eunozs said:
I only use rocksett because it holds up to high heat, but very easily removed with a long soak in water…or a short dip in boiling water.

Always use a reaction rod in the vice too so rhe torque is transmitted to the strongest part of the upper (the barrel extension) vs the lugs on the receiver.

I use a reaction rod also on ARs but it doesn’t fit the spear lt. I haven’t seen one for the spear in the commercial market but I am sure they would sell well given my experience with this barrel.

mrtoyz · Apr 18, 2024

I’ve removed 4 Spear LT hiders without issue.
1. 2hr soak with boiling water
2. Midwest Industries barrel ext bar
3. Correct muzzle device tool
4. 18” breaker bar

oldrifleman · Apr 18, 2024

I just used a MAP torch on the flash hider for about 15 seconds (rotating barrel) and used an 8inch adjustable wrench and it just spun off with a muffled pop when the hot locktite met the air.

Pseudohero · Apr 18, 2024

mrtoyz said:
I’ve removed 4 Spear LT hiders without issue.
1. 2hr soak with boiling water
2. Midwest Industries barrel ext bar
3. Correct muzzle device tool
4. 18” breaker bar

Does midwest make a reaction rod which fits the spear? That would be key.

2 hour boil? I tried 45 minutes and that didn’t do it.

I did 2 spear lts with just the real avid vice and clamps with no issue but this one has been a bitch.

Ernest 5.56 · Apr 18, 2024

Does brake cleaner work?

Pseudohero · Apr 18, 2024

Ernest 5.56 said:
Does brake cleaner work?

I bet it would if you could force it into the threads. I think ideally you would submerge it into solvent overnight. May try that next.

the monk · Apr 18, 2024

Hit it three times hard with a dead blow hammer on the face of the MD. On Sigs, you need to break through both the rockset and the barrel's taper mount.

Arc Light · Apr 18, 2024

Is Sig using Rockset confirmed? Must be recent, cause the two Sig rifles I own (516 and 716) had nothing on the threads from factory. They were tight, but a little heat and a big wrench and they spun right off.

the monk · Apr 18, 2024

Arc Light said:
Is Sig using Rockset confirmed? Must be recent, cause the two Sig rifles I own (516 and 716) had nothing on the threads from factory. They were tight, but a little heat and a big wrench and they spun right off.

Rattlers I have worked on the last year or so have

Longshot231 · Apr 18, 2024

Arc Light said:
Is Sig using Rockset confirmed? Must be recent, cause the two Sig rifles I own (516 and 716) had nothing on the threads from factory. They were tight, but a little heat and a big wrench and they spun right off.

the monk said:
Rattlers I have worked on the last year or so have

I called SIG about my MPX carbine. I wanted the muzzle brake off to suppress it. I confirmed that it was left-hand threads but they did not use any Rockset or LocTite.

I told them that I was having a heck of a time removing the muzzle-brake and was assured that they didn't use anything on the threads.

So I used a blow-torch on it for darn near 5 minutes or more, it finally popped loose.

Yondering · Apr 18, 2024

msgriff said:
I would not use any reaction rod for muzzle devices. They might be fine for MD installation at 20-35 lb-ft , but for removal where considerably higher torque is sometimes required, you run the risk or unthreading the barrel from the extension. Barrel blocks are the preferred method, and you can get them for under $20 including shipping.

edit: sp

Nah. Bad call.

A reaction rod is the way to go; any properly installed barrel extension can handle it (they're installed between 100-150 ft-lb* depending who made it, and often with red locktite too). If the barrel extension comes loose, it needed to be re-installed correctly anyway.

The reaction rod doesn't put any stress on the upper receiver the way vise blocks do, and doesn't mar the barrel the way barrel blocks do when people just put them in a vise. If you have a proper barrel vise, great, but that requires removing the handguard most of the time. A reaction rod eliminates all of that and can apply more than enough torque.

I have seen and fixed a couple of barrel extensions that unscrewed when someone tried to remove a muzzle device - they were all low end barrels that needed to have the extensions re-installed anyway. Some red 243 Loctite and torque in a barrel vise made them better than new. Personally if one of my barrels was in that condition, I'd rather know and fix it. A barrel extension torqued down right won't be hurt by using a reaction rod for muzzle devices. FWIW the Brownells version of a reaction rod is the way to go IMO - the long one not their short one. Made of good steel and lasts forever. A breaker bar mounted in the vise with the reaction rod on top makes it easy; the upper never needs to be clamped down to anything.

*I make my own barrels for some of my ARs, so not just guessing at this.

mark5pt56 · Apr 19, 2024

On the 3 sig's I've popped off, zero evidence of anything on the threads. Not knowing what they did or didn't put on, I soaked with boiling water, adding more once, about 30 mins, large adjustable wrench and one whack with a mallet. I think it's the torque they apply in addition to the taper friction. Now the one MPX I saw a guy beating on, I had to remind him it's LH!

Gunfighter14e2 · Apr 19, 2024

Hobo Hilton said:
Soak over night with Kroil.
Dry ice on the barrel and heat on the device.
Turn counter clockwise.
Use a flare nut wrench
View attachment 8389274

While Kroil is good I find 50% Acetone an 50% Dextron III works somewhat better for me.

RTH1800 · Apr 19, 2024

Wondering if it could be pinned and welded?

Yondering · Apr 20, 2024

RTH1800 said:
Wondering if it could be pinned and welded?

Possibly, but IME usually a pinned & welded muzzle device will start to move slightly before stopping hard against the pin (or sometimes continuing to unthread, with more resistance, depending on the pinning method). If it's stuck tight and won't budge at all even with heat, it's probably a combo of torque and Rockset. Boiling water and lots of torque should do it.

FWIW to the broader thread - I prefer using blue Loctite #243 because of the muzzle devices I've encountered like this thread is discussing. Water can't always penetrate into the threads well enough, and if someone used a lot of Rockset it can be a real bear to remove. Loctite on the other hand can always be broken down with heat, but not so easily as to come loose with any kind of normal shooting. (I don't do full auto or bubba bump fire gravel pit kid stuff though.) I've removed muzzle devices I installed with #243 years later, and still had to apply heat to get them off even after thousands of rounds. Of course if you like to rapid fire until your barrel smokes and changes colors, maybe stick with Rockset.

Pseudohero · Sep 4, 2024

Finally got it. I tried to boil it multiple times. Propane torch multiple times. Lead shims, and leather shims in the barrel vice. Had a 3 foot breaker bar with a real avid adapter for three prong muzzle devices. For what was going to be my final and last attempt i put the endnof the barrel in an ultrasonic cleaner with a small amount of kroil and a bag duct taped to seal at the end of the barrel. This may have loosened it, but it still wouldn’t budge. I heated the piss out of it with the propane torch to the point where flame was shooting out of the end from kroil. Destroyed the muzzle device but fuuucckk that piece of shit.

supercorndogs · Sep 4, 2024

That sure looks like some rock set.

Pseudohero · Sep 4, 2024

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I’m surprised the boiling didn’t work. At one point I boiled it for a whole hour.

Arc Light · Sep 4, 2024

Wow, I think you own the record for the longest attempted muzzle device removal in SH history

Glad you finally got it off, and WTF with Sig not knowing what kind of thread locker they use? My rifles had nothing, others had loctite, and yet others Rockset.

BCP · Sep 4, 2024

They use some ugly white shit that's either loctite or rocksett. My muzzle device came off easy but the barrel nut was a no-go, it looks like they put a ton of rocksett on it.

LRRPF52 · Sep 4, 2024

Yondering said:
Nah. Bad call.

A reaction rod is the way to go; any properly installed barrel extension can handle it (they're installed between 100-150 ft-lb* depending who made it, and often with red locktite too). If the barrel extension comes loose, it needed to be re-installed correctly anyway.

The reaction rod doesn't put any stress on the upper receiver the way vise blocks do, and doesn't mar the barrel the way barrel blocks do when people just put them in a vise. If you have a proper barrel vise, great, but that requires removing the handguard most of the time. A reaction rod eliminates all of that and can apply more than enough torque.

I have seen and fixed a couple of barrel extensions that unscrewed when someone tried to remove a muzzle device - they were all low end barrels that needed to have the extensions re-installed anyway. Some red 243 Loctite and torque in a barrel vise made them better than new. Personally if one of my barrels was in that condition, I'd rather know and fix it. A barrel extension torqued down right won't be hurt by using a reaction rod for muzzle devices. FWIW the Brownells version of a reaction rod is the way to go IMO - the long one not their short one. Made of good steel and lasts forever. A breaker bar mounted in the vise with the reaction rod on top makes it easy; the upper never needs to be clamped down to anything.

*I make my own barrels for some of my ARs, so not just guessing at this.

SOTAR put out an excellent video on this recently and demonstrated all of the reaction rods, receiver clamshells, receiver inserts, and fixtures for doing barrel nut installation or removal.

The Geissele reaction rod had some of the issues that most of the other fixtures had.

Pseudohero · Sep 4, 2024

Arc Light said:
Wow, I think you own the record for the longest attempted muzzle device removal in SH history

Glad you finally got it off, and WTF with Sig not knowing what kind of thread locker they use? My rifles had nothing, others had loctite, and yet others Rockset.

Lol. Is been like 6 months. Was going through my project drawer today and saw that barrel. A surge of anger overcame me and I was like “this mfer is coming off today no matter what!” I was going to cut the muzzle device to the end of where I thought the threads were in the barrel and then cut it longitudinally from two sides and crack it open like a rock.

oldrifleman · Sep 4, 2024

Pseudohero said:
Lol. Is been like 6 months. Was going through my project drawer today and saw that barrel. A surge of anger overcame me and I was like “this mfer is coming off today no matter what!” I was going to cut the muzzle device to the end of where I thought the threads were in the barrel and then cut it longitudinally from two sides and crack it open like a rock.

I, being the old codger I am would just send it to D.Wilson to have them take care of it.

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