Lighter weight Vudoo comp rifle?

TDWilson · Sep 5, 2024

Centerfire PRS comp rifles with the longer barrels and the 20+ lbs of weight make sense for balance and taming recoil. For a 22, not so much maybe?

I’m thinking there may be distinct advantages to using a shorter-barreled, lighter weight rimfire rifle. For just about any stage, building and breaking positions should be easier and faster with a lighter, short-barreled rifle. I think this is especially true for those tricky stages where the rifle has to pushed through slots, slats, fencing, etc. If efficiency in building/breaking positions is improved, then there will be more time for acquiring targets, more time to break a clean press, and you get the idea. If something like this is set up correctly, then maybe it’s worth a few extra points in a competition?

So, I’m thinking about dusting off my Vudoo with the 18” Kukri and mounting it in a chassis like an MPA Hunter Comp.

Thoughts? Do any of you have experience with this?

Matt_3479 · Sep 5, 2024

I’ve competed in rimfire matches with 20”, 22” and 26” pipes. While lighter is faster it’s generally not more stable and tends to be harder to balance a 18-20” barrel. An improper balanced rifle makes it harder to get shoot in certain positions. A lot of people compete in 22 matches to practice for centerfire matches, so a rifle that weighs, moves and balances similar to there main rig is another benefit.

I no longer have a lighter 20” to compete with, but a 22” 1.063” steaight and a 26” 1.250 straight. I now have a carbon hunter set up in a 20” carbon barrel which I love but it’s not nearly as stable off a prop as the big heavier builds

Badjujuu · Sep 5, 2024

For every pro, there is a con. There is a reason why majority of shooters will have 20lb plus balanced rifles. Especially now with rhe fad being straight contour barrels, those numbers go up.
One would want to plop their heavy set up on a gamechanger and have minimal contact when pulling the trigger. Especially in stronger winds or more unstable props

But I'm with you. Kind of. I run a 24" straight barrel on my gen3, but it's housed inside a XLR magnesium chassis, making the setup being mostly weight of the barrel action and scope..this gives me a balanced, almost front heavy rifle without adding any weights thus not making the rifle weight 24#s plus.

I almost wish there was a division for rifles less than 15# haha

But yeah, watching folks move with really heavy rifles is fun, especially in field matches or stages with lots of movements.

Mark_Dorman · Sep 6, 2024

There are only a few stages/props that a heavier rifle is really a lot harder to deal with IMO. The Pyramid and some of the more complicated ladder stages come to mind. Overall though, the stability of a heavier rifle is usually a worth while trade off. I don't run a super heavy rifle (18lbs), and I think 16-18lbs is a solid weight for stability but not crazy hard to move.

Now that I think about it. Most of the harder stages where a lot of people don't finish, it doesn't seem to matter much how heavy the rifle is (at least in my memory). I recall the Pyramid stage last month most of us ran out of time with 1-2 shots left. Didn't matter if someone was running a big heavy rig or a near base class gun.

I do think running a few competitions with a lighter rifle that's purpose built could be a load of fun though.

Tiger_Shilone · Sep 6, 2024

I’ll be “that guy” and go the opposite direction. Not a fan of the 20lb+ barricade benchrest fad. Can’t imagine having to carry it for any length of time. Would love to see more offhand and NRL hunter style stages, but those styles of shooting require practice, experience and skill sets that lots of shooters don’t like to admit not having. I don’t feel handicapped by lessor weight, and if I can use a sling , bags or bipod then even better. I shoot several different styles of matches and having that much weight would be a detriment in about half those disciplines.

My two current vudoos are at 8.5 and 12-13 lbs all in.( gun,scope,empty mag, all accessories). I shoot NRA smallbore silhouette and it’s hunter class has some pretty strict criteria (2+lb trigger, 8.5lbs or under, taper barrel, scope no higher than 1.5” from receiver, no thumbhole stocks). Getting that light cost a couple hundred more for the carbon fiber barrel and other weight saving items.

The rifle I am most stable with offhand weighs in at a whopping 6 pounds, an iron sighted lever action. It’s also the only rifle I’ve shot master scores with as the iron sights are very stable compared to magnified optics. But that’s not PRS style shooting either.

Meh, maybe I should throw one of the vudoos in my MPA chassis and stick 8 lbs of weight on it and see if it scores higher.

Criver600 · Sep 6, 2024

17lbs, RimX, 24" Bartlien 5 groove, McMillan M40A1.

Defender32 · Sep 6, 2024

Here is my Gen 1 Vudoo with 25" 1.2 Brux barrel. Full rig weighs 21lb. Triggercam & McLeod Rail add 4lb to the setup. It balances well, but you can still see optical bounce from my heart in the reticle. I try to free recoil as much as possible to prevent this. It's the nature of a Lighter rifle and positional shooting. I can add a 4lb DST Precision Shaft Weight to the ARCA and the rifle does not move at all.

Running and gunning at a NRL22 X Match this past weekend was a blast. I had about 15 sec left on a 105 sec par time.

Rifle setup and weight is a personal preference. Match what you shoot the most.

dscl · Sep 6, 2024

@Badjujuu what does your Vudoo in the XLR Magnesium chassis weigh?

Badjujuu · Sep 6, 2024

I'll have to weigh it.

Which version you want?

24" straight with Zco
22" MTU with NX8

dscl · Sep 6, 2024

Badjujuu said:
I'll have to weigh it.

Which version you want?

24" straight with Zco
22" MTU with NX8

Whichever balances better

TDWilson · Sep 6, 2024

Badjujuu said:
I'll have to weigh it.

Which version you want?

24" straight with Zco
22" MTU with NX8

How ‘bout both?

Badjujuu · Sep 6, 2024

Will do, I'm out and about so tomorrow morning

David Lott · Sep 7, 2024

The idea of ANY shooting sport is to hit what you aim at, in NRL/PRS the same applies except throw in a time constraint and mandatory movement. Knowing that, common sense dictates that the shooter will do what ever it takes to accomplish that goal. In this case a well balanced and stable rifle makes it easier to obtain that. This is an open sport that allows ideas to flourish and hence continue to improve performance. You'll be hard pressed to find a shooter with a 10 lb rifle that can have the same hit percentage as a guy with a 20 lb rifle over the same course of fire.

Badjujuu · Sep 7, 2024

Badjujuu said:
Will do, I'm out and about so tomorrow morning

22" Gen 2 MTU with NX8 - 12lbs
24" 360 Straight with Zco - 15.4lbs

The 24" balance is perfect, almost front heavy.
The 22" MTU isn't bad either, maybe a tuner or keeping bipod on will give the right balance..

TDWilson · Sep 7, 2024

David Lott said:
The idea of ANY shooting sport is to hit what you aim at, in NRL/PRS the same applies except throw in a time constraint and mandatory movement. Knowing that, common sense dictates that the shooter will do what ever it takes to accomplish that goal. In this case a well balanced and stable rifle makes it easier to obtain that. This is an open sport that allows ideas to flourish and hence continue to improve performance. You'll be hard pressed to find a shooter with a 10 lb rifle that can have the same hit percentage as a guy with a 20 lb rifle over the same course of fire.

Thank-you for your thoughts, David. I appreciate your expert opinion.

To be clear, I am not looking at competing with a 10lb rifle. I am, however, considering a rifle with a shorter barrel that does not weigh 23lbs. Perhaps in the 17-18lb range? Take a look at Andy Slade’s rifle or the rifle that Camdyn Powers uses in competition. I am betting these barrels are 22” or less. No doubt each of their rifles balance well, but do they weigh as much as their centerfire rifles?

I look at these short barrels, and I see advantages that will facilitate more efficient, agile movement. Bulky, heavier weapons can make movement more difficult. Because movement is mandatory in this sport, I think it is a potential error if we don’t consider our equipment choices that either improve or hinder movement.

This is all a risk-benefit analysis. How many points do I potentially gain with better movement? How many points do I potentially lose with a rifle that weighs less?

David Lott · Sep 7, 2024

I

TDWilson said:
Thank-you for your thoughts, David. I appreciate your expert opinion.

To be clear, I am not looking at competing with a 10lb rifle. I am, however, considering a rifle with a shorter barrel that does not weigh 23lbs. Perhaps in the 17-18lb range? Take a look at Andy Slade’s rifle or the rifle that Camdyn Powers uses in competition. I am betting these barrels are 22” or less. No doubt each of their rifles balance well, but do they weigh as much as their centerfire rifles?

I look at these short barrels, and I see advantages that will facilitate more efficient, agile movement. Bulky, heavier weapons can make movement more difficult. Because movement is mandatory in this sport, I think it is a potential error if we don’t consider our equipment choices that either improve or hinder movement.

This is all a risk-benefit analysis. How many points do I potentially gain with better movement? How many points do I potentially lose with a rifle that weighs less?

I See your point just giving insight on why the sport went that way. Back in 2020 when I put the 1st 1.250 25" muller on a Vudoo it was very unorthadox but it worked fantastic and now its the norm. I do get a lot of request for a lighter rifle, maybe we should discuss a weight to achieve and petition a light open division, if there is interest and can help the sport grow, I'm sure the powers at be would be inteested in Entertaining it

beetroot · Sep 8, 2024

TDWilson said:
This is all a risk-benefit analysis. How many points do I potentially gain with better movement? How many points do I potentially lose with a rifle that weighs less?

Depends on the match

If it's a field match, run and gun/speed match, or included off hand/sling shooting then 12-14lb is probably right.
If it's solid barricades, little movement, and tiny targets then as heavy as possible is the way to go.

A 22-24" heavy contour would be heavy enough to balance your rifle, add a KRG Bravo for a 13lb rifle or add a weight MDT ACC for a 22lb rifle.

flatland1 · Sep 8, 2024

Several years ago, I decided that I wanted a very light Vudoo Gen 1, so I ordered a bbl'd action with their 18" Ranch bbl, and put it into a Manners EH2 stock. While doing initial shooting to zero scope & find out what ammo it liked, I found that it shot really well off the bench with a bipod & bunny ear rear bag, but even with this relatively stable set-up, there was more movement after the shot than my other Gen 1, which I'd set up with a 22" Krieger sendero bbl in a PRS1T stock. I felt that the rifle balancing so far to the rear exacerbated this tendency, and also made the rifle a bit harder to shoot offhand. I wound up pulling the ACE 18" Ranch bbl and replacing it with a 22" Krieger in their #4 sporter contour, which added just enough weight up forward to move the balance point to the front edge of the PTG Stealth DBM that I'd used, and the empty weight with the longer bbl came in at 9.5lbs, with an Athlon 30mm Midas TAC 6-24x50 scope mounted in TPS TSR rings. And though the 18" ACE bbl had shot very well, I feel that the 22" Krieger shoots just a tad better, where groups are concerned.

I've often thought about shooting this little rifle in a match or two to see how well I got along with it, but after shooting a match a week ago today where I felt quite stable with my 14lb Three-60 & 23" Krieger sendero (with a Pro-X tuner) in a PRS1T & a bigger scope (Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56) - especially while shooting off a monopod supplied by the match director - I have a feeling that I'd have dropped quite a few more points if I'd been shooting the light rifle. Need to get out and shoot with it to find out for sure how much (if any) disadvantage the lighter weight would be in some of the positions we shot in. I've got torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders, and just the thought of handling a 20lb rifle during movement in a stage makes me cringe a bit, so I'm not going to build myself anything heavier than the 14lb self-imposed limit.

Emerson0311 · Sep 8, 2024

If you are chasing the podium, or top ten at a national level match, most of the rifle attributes are clearly laid out by the folks at that level. Trust their decisions, they have orders of magnitude more invested in this than the beginning match shooter. If you have a slightly different prime directive, and maximizing your points is secondary, go for it. Just don’t expect to reinvent the wheel and discover a brand new route to the podium.

Cody S · Sep 11, 2024

I just got done running a factory lightweight gun that barely balances well at approx 10lbs loaded. apart from being terribly inaccurate the light weight didn't hold me back particularly thanks to being 22lr.
I'm going to build a gun that weighs about 15lbs this time around, just because.
cz457 threaded like a 40x, mullerworks cut rifled barrel torqued in, chambered by a pro.
24" 1.2 diameter in a mdt gen 2 premier.
it should be light enough, while still settling good and balancing. I don't plan on buying additional weights for it.
my centerfire weighs thirty something pounds, so I like a chunky monkey

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