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Run-N-Gun [Centerfire Biathlon] kit - What do you run?
- Thread starter Bakwa
- Start date
Thanks man. You've had some strong finishes yourself. I don't think 2024 will be my comeback year. I just closed on a new house 2 months ago and have been doing the reno myself and finally just moved in on Aug 1, but I still have plenty of work left to do. I've barely had any time to train. But since I appear to be on a 4 year cycle, maybe 2025 will be good to me hahaha.
I'm pretty sure my 2nd place in 22' will be the best I ever do there. The rough part was seeing how far off 1st place was, Bryan Ray is just far and away a better shooter.
The training it would take for me to get to that level would be significant. I still like to do other things like freedive, spearfish, hunt and travel so I've accepted my fate for future Run and Guns.
I still think they are incredibly important in order to stay sharp and prepared, and I believe anyone that can consistently place near the top is well ahead of the game when it comes to survivability should things get crazy.
IMO, Run and Guns and NRL Hunter are two of the most life applicable events one could attend.
The training it would take for me to get to that level would be significant. I still like to do other things like freedive, spearfish, hunt and travel so I've accepted my fate for future Run and Guns.
I still think they are incredibly important in order to stay sharp and prepared, and I believe anyone that can consistently place near the top is well ahead of the game when it comes to survivability should things get crazy.
IMO, Run and Guns and NRL Hunter are two of the most life applicable events one could attend.
It’s hard to tell from the pic but looks like your shoulder straps wrap further down your back than this Haley harness, which would keep the straps well below your armpits before they go horizontal. That would solve the chafing.
To me, it looks like this Haley unit was designed around someone who was about 5’8” and maybe 170#, but 6’1 and 230, this thing is too small.
I doubt I’ll have time to get to ATS to have a custom unit made, and I don’t have a sewing machine so I’m left working with kit I have in hand.
I tested out dropping the harness all together, then clippingmy Eagle pack into the placard, top vertical clips as well as bottom horizontal clips. This was very comfortable around the house yesterday but it’s likely not going to work going under bar wire and 100% chance I’ll have to strip to a tee shirt and drag my shit if we go through this again.
I don’t like the idea of having to drop everything to get into the pack either, regardless of how comfortable it is. I figure even with four across my chest I’m going to need to re-index mags at some point.
I have ran in plates all three times (21,22,23) and if I don’t get this figured out by the end of next week I will have a choice to make. Suck it up for 3 hours and don’t be a bitch, or run in plates again and just deal with the heat.
Yeah, I wear mine a little lower by necessity so I can actually have a (barely adequate) draw. Otherwise I would definitely prefer to wear it a little higher if I didn't have a pistol on it.
I don't have a pic immediately off-hand of what I look like from the back wearing it, but the lower strap definitely sits below my lats on my body. I'm 6'2" 190 lbs but more of a rock climber's build and I'm not nearly as broad as you are so it's hard for me to say for sure. You might try dropping it lower down your chest a bit. Even if it winds up being more of a belly rig, that's still better than being rubbed raw and then getting nasty swamp water inside your cuts.
FYI, I'm not sure if you're referring to Legion, but there is no plate carrier division this year. Only Race and Operator (minimum pack weight 45 lbs, no specific requirement for plate carrier, but you're welcome to wear one which will contribute towards your 45 lbs minimum if you so choose). FWIW, I would not recommend wearing a PC. Just load it all into your pack.
Attachments
My buddy Zach runs almost the same setup as above.
I am referring to Legion. Last year I ran in plates despite the change. This year, I am hoping to be in the top 30 of the 10k. Not any great feat by ya’lls standard but it would be an accomplishment for me.
I can wear it that low, and have. I find it moves around more but I may have to split the difference. If I could sew, I’d make an elastic cummerbund and attach the H harness to it. They would allow it to conform to my back as well as hold the placard up high. Would be warm but I run pack with 3 liters of water, a few extra mags for each weapon, a couple straps and D rings, salt tabs and some chomps in the pack, as well as extra eye and ear pro.
Is that flash bangs in the first of your pics
I am referring to Legion. Last year I ran in plates despite the change. This year, I am hoping to be in the top 30 of the 10k. Not any great feat by ya’lls standard but it would be an accomplishment for me.
I can wear it that low, and have. I find it moves around more but I may have to split the difference. If I could sew, I’d make an elastic cummerbund and attach the H harness to it. They would allow it to conform to my back as well as hold the placard up high. Would be warm but I run pack with 3 liters of water, a few extra mags for each weapon, a couple straps and D rings, salt tabs and some chomps in the pack, as well as extra eye and ear pro.
Is that flash bangs in the first of your pics
Just to contribute to this thread a bit, I did the 17S Sweatin’ Bullets this past month. It was my third run-n-gun, all of which have been at 17S. This one was particularly unique in that we have experienced historic flooding in the area this year, and over the course of Friday and Saturday, the gun range went from slightly flooded, to be closed for the next week due to the water height.
So, everyone shot a different match based off of when their start time was, with Friday being very minimal flooding, and the guys at the end of Saturday having another 2 to 3 feet of water to wade through.
I shot the match mid Saturday morning. So I think I got a medium amount of flooding. The course was 7 km, and I would say at least half the course was flooded, and of that half, over half of that was with water above my knees upwards of my beltline. I am 6’4”. And everyone was made to dunk completely underwater before the beginning of the first stage.
Needless to say, it was the most unique match I have ever shot and possibly should have been called off, but I am glad that they kept it going because it was a ton of fun. Six stages, with nothing more than 120 yards, but the stages were well-designed, forcing you into multiple shooting positions and especially worked on your ability to pick targets out of heavy cover.
My main takeaways are below.
-enclosed optics on pistols are worthwhile. Acro worked great and no starburst dot from water in the emitter.
-the BlackHawk omnivore is the most underrated retention holster on the market, mine is the streamlight tlr-1 variant and it retained the pistol worry free.
-the ACOG is still relevant, i used a ta11 for all my shooting, and it works for that 25-120 range with a good fov and not overpowering magnification.
-nylon clothing is the best choice, I like the railriders stuff, more abrasive resistant and no polyester so less chances of tearing clothes and breathes better than cotton blends.
-Backpacks are not needed for this type of event, everything you need to shoot the course can be carried on your belt and chest.
- I used a piece of elastic cord to attach a lens cleaning wipe to my rifle just in front of my acog, which allow me to clean the optic very conveniently and also kept it drier than the rest of my body.
Gear was a subsecond belt with omnivore, 2 pistol mags, 1 ar mag, small pouch with lens cleaning equipment and multitool, and a dump pouch stuffed with water bottles. Chest rig was a bfg rack minus with a triple mag shingle, 2 pistol pouches, and 2 double ar mag pouches that held another water bottle, timer, cleaning equipment, and keys.
Pistol was a walther pdp with acro and tlr-1 (no malfunctions), rifle was a homebuilt 14.5” with centurion barrel, c4 rail, colt upper, bcm bcg, and rugged micro (no malfunctions).
Ended up placing 6/110 for the match, which again is somewhat irrelevant, considering everyone shot a different match, given the rising floodwaters. Overall, I would highly recommend the 17s matches because I do not know of any other match that can also count as a swim meet.
So, everyone shot a different match based off of when their start time was, with Friday being very minimal flooding, and the guys at the end of Saturday having another 2 to 3 feet of water to wade through.
I shot the match mid Saturday morning. So I think I got a medium amount of flooding. The course was 7 km, and I would say at least half the course was flooded, and of that half, over half of that was with water above my knees upwards of my beltline. I am 6’4”. And everyone was made to dunk completely underwater before the beginning of the first stage.
Needless to say, it was the most unique match I have ever shot and possibly should have been called off, but I am glad that they kept it going because it was a ton of fun. Six stages, with nothing more than 120 yards, but the stages were well-designed, forcing you into multiple shooting positions and especially worked on your ability to pick targets out of heavy cover.
My main takeaways are below.
-enclosed optics on pistols are worthwhile. Acro worked great and no starburst dot from water in the emitter.
-the BlackHawk omnivore is the most underrated retention holster on the market, mine is the streamlight tlr-1 variant and it retained the pistol worry free.
-the ACOG is still relevant, i used a ta11 for all my shooting, and it works for that 25-120 range with a good fov and not overpowering magnification.
-nylon clothing is the best choice, I like the railriders stuff, more abrasive resistant and no polyester so less chances of tearing clothes and breathes better than cotton blends.
-Backpacks are not needed for this type of event, everything you need to shoot the course can be carried on your belt and chest.
- I used a piece of elastic cord to attach a lens cleaning wipe to my rifle just in front of my acog, which allow me to clean the optic very conveniently and also kept it drier than the rest of my body.
Gear was a subsecond belt with omnivore, 2 pistol mags, 1 ar mag, small pouch with lens cleaning equipment and multitool, and a dump pouch stuffed with water bottles. Chest rig was a bfg rack minus with a triple mag shingle, 2 pistol pouches, and 2 double ar mag pouches that held another water bottle, timer, cleaning equipment, and keys.
Pistol was a walther pdp with acro and tlr-1 (no malfunctions), rifle was a homebuilt 14.5” with centurion barrel, c4 rail, colt upper, bcm bcg, and rugged micro (no malfunctions).
Ended up placing 6/110 for the match, which again is somewhat irrelevant, considering everyone shot a different match, given the rising floodwaters. Overall, I would highly recommend the 17s matches because I do not know of any other match that can also count as a swim meet.
That sounds awesome. What a unique event. That’s one of the things I like most about Run and Gun, everyone has a unique match. Generally, not to the degree you did, but the runner who steps off at 8am isn’t going to get the same match as the runner who steps off at 2pm. Especially if there are fronts moving through. I think @Burdy said it in one of his blogs, (I’m paraphrasing ) it’s not fair, like life.
I’m learning to like that aspect. Took me a couple RNGs to learn that it was not an USPSA match and you just have to roll with the punches. I feel like I got a lucky break this time around because I am taller and that helped with wading through water. Which may be well-deserved because it seems like every MD has at least 1 stage at a match designed for a keebler elf haha.
Jimmy Nut just posted the stage videos from your match on Run and Gun nation. (RO day) Some interesting challenges beyond what Mother Nature handed you.
You had a great finish yesterday. The heat on Friday was no shit. It’s never 90 on Cagle Mountain. I’m surprised nobody went down with heat exhaustion with that heat and humidity .
Great run!
Thanks FB! Great to finally meet you in real life and put a face to the screen name. You did pretty well yourself!
Yeah, 17 South was something else this year.
I went with a group of three other dudes. Ran it, then took pics for the rest of the day.
Lessons were learned.
And knowing what I know about that water after shooting that event twice...your guns were rusted before you got home.
Though not nearly what you had to deal with, I should have learned from the lessons above. I ran the last 2-3 miles in some heavy rain and the scope mount nuts, bolt release and my safety rusted up pretty good over night.
After having this experience at past matches, I always pre-oil all the steel on my guns, mostly small hardware, and especially the sling QD studs and sockets - those little bastards love to rust. Then as soon as I can after finishing, I squirt those same areas with WD40 to displace the water and prevent rust until I can get home to properly clean and re-oil.
Birchwood Casey Barricade is unbelievable at preventing, and even removing rust. If you can get a light coat of that on all of your metal stuff prior to submersion you'll be good.
Just a follow up on the Haley kit and chafing. Dropping it 2” and flat taping every adjuster and roll worked. It ran fine, no rubs or chafing. Any time lost on these stages was 100% operator headspace and timing. I may still see if ATS can custom make me one, but this works.
The bison belt with the cut down true north concepts holster mount still bruised my leg pretty good, and raised a goose egg. I had to stop enroute to stage three, cut the tape off and pull the belt up over my hips and cinch it down tight. This helped quite a bit. Contributing was an JSTA I added a week out, I had to get the loaded mags out of the JSTA pouch behind my pistol. It turned out to be too much weight in one section of the belt and was dragging my pants down. I F’d stage one up pretty bad and had an empty so I just re-indexed an empty to the pouch and used the 24 round Glock mag to top off the mags on my chest.
Even with the round count this year I had 90 rifle and 76 pistol left over. I started with 223 rifle and 191 pistol. I need to stop the bullshit and not carry double anymore.
I did find something interesting with my daughter’s 2011 mags. Even with the 2011 Esstac inserts the mags fell out. We switched at a pair of G-codes I had laying around and pulled the bungy up to the top, taped them just below the pouch opening so they’d stay in place, then I put a tape pull tab to get them off quick. Worked great with the extra retention.
I’m starting to dislike the movement on my mag pouches though, and I’m thinking of finding a way to secure/ attach them tighter.
The bison belt with the cut down true north concepts holster mount still bruised my leg pretty good, and raised a goose egg. I had to stop enroute to stage three, cut the tape off and pull the belt up over my hips and cinch it down tight. This helped quite a bit. Contributing was an JSTA I added a week out, I had to get the loaded mags out of the JSTA pouch behind my pistol. It turned out to be too much weight in one section of the belt and was dragging my pants down. I F’d stage one up pretty bad and had an empty so I just re-indexed an empty to the pouch and used the 24 round Glock mag to top off the mags on my chest.
Even with the round count this year I had 90 rifle and 76 pistol left over. I started with 223 rifle and 191 pistol. I need to stop the bullshit and not carry double anymore.
I did find something interesting with my daughter’s 2011 mags. Even with the 2011 Esstac inserts the mags fell out. We switched at a pair of G-codes I had laying around and pulled the bungy up to the top, taped them just below the pouch opening so they’d stay in place, then I put a tape pull tab to get them off quick. Worked great with the extra retention.
I’m starting to dislike the movement on my mag pouches though, and I’m thinking of finding a way to secure/ attach them tighter.
Great post. I realize you might not be looking to start from scratch, but I'm using this system from G-Code & like it a lot.
I have the tall (I think) G code single pistol pouches. Even pulled tight the 20 round Prodigy mags would shake out. (Think slack lining while pulling a pack across a creek). Pulling that bungee around the body of the pouch and up over the mags worked well. I like them a lot, and the provided malice clips worked well too. I did tape the bottom of the malice clip so the pouches could not pull up when she pulled a mag.
Curious how these G codes compared to the taco pouches?
Curious how these G codes compared to the taco pouches?
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Oh I gotcha... So the problem is the full mag coming out of the pouch, not the pouch moving around on the belt? That's weird, I haven't had any trouble with Glock 17 mags with +2 extensions coming loose, but I'm also just moving around on a range, not slogging thru the trenches of the Somme in WWI, haha!
Glock mags stay in fine in both the Esstacs and the G code. The 2011 mags narrow way down to the feed lips so a much longer section of the body is tapered. I assume that’s the main contributor. That’s said, lots of guys run them so maybe it’s just me being paranoid.
I want to make it out to Texas to shoot one within the next year. I’ve watched several of the events out there and they look awesome. Much more opportunity for a SPR/DMR type event it seems . Would give me a reason to buy a kestrel to do dope cards with different altitudes/ DA thank I’m used to
I want to make it out to Texas to shoot one within the next year. I’ve watched several of the events out there and they look awesome. Much more opportunity for a SPR/DMR type event it seems . Would give me a reason to buy a kestrel to do dope cards with different altitudes/ DA thank I’m used to
A kestrel would be a hindrance, not a help, at RnGs. You don't have time to dial or gather atmospherics. And you don't need perfectly accurate data either. With generous target size in (most) RnGs, grabbing the local weather off your phones weather app is perfectly adequate. Estimate range, make the appropriate hold on your reticle, and send it.
Was thinking of DMR type holds and setting up a card before hand , but if shots are inside 600 I get where you’re coming from. I certainly wouldn’t run one during the event. We generally shoot at 400-800 AMSL. Going to 3000+ would have me nervous unless there was a zero day beforehand. Now I need to find another reason to buy one 
Hoping the rumors I heard last week about Utah are real and come to fruition in the next few years. I haven’t spent much time there but the Mrs and I liked it a lot and it would make for a nice family trip should something come together.
Hoping the rumors I heard last week about Utah are real and come to fruition in the next few years. I haven’t spent much time there but the Mrs and I liked it a lot and it would make for a nice family trip should something come together.
Waco tactical fitness biathlon is a good one. They run it twice a year once in April and once in October. The same guys also have one in Arkansas once a year. It just went up to 150 from 100. It always sells out in hours.
They did a good job with the stages. Single hand rifle handling was a good skill to put on a timer, and making people shoot on the move was another good move. A lot of shooting in RNG is somewhat rudimentary compared to uspsa/2-gun/3-gun matches from what I have observed, so pushing people into more difficult stages was a cool move in my mind.
