Lightweight vs Heavy/PRS Rifle Set-up for Mammoth?

bonesaw00001 · Jun 16, 2022

Hey y'all, my teammate and I tried mammoth for the first time this past January and hope to reshoot it again for 2023. As primary shooter, I ended up running a 20" Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5 CM in original plastic stock, which weighed out at 12.5 lbs after suppressor, scope, and bipod. I think I'd benefit from a heavier rifle and higher velocity (I'm hitting around 2550 with factory 6.5cm 140gr out of the tikka), but I'm not a regular PRS or field event competitor, so what do I know.

I'm weighing running a 24" Havak HIT in 6.5 CM, which is pretty damn heavy at 17 lbs with bipod and a Razor scope, without an additional 1 lb suppressor, especially if I have to shoot it offhand.

Alternatively, I could drop the Tikka in a chassis and/or rebarrel it, leaving it at closer to 14 lbs. The CTR shoots around .8-1 MOA with factory ammo and otherwise is terrific.

Looks like prior winners' rifles were about 16 lbs.

If you had $2k to budget to improve your set up, how would you spend it?

Hoyt7mm · Jun 16, 2022

I'd stick with the Tikka. Rebarrel to a 6mm (Creed or GT) and drop it in a good chassis. You'll have a flatter shooting cartridge with less recoil than a 6.5 without a big change in weight.

b6graham · Jun 16, 2022

new chassis for sure

proof barrel if you want longer/different cartridge

beetroot · Jun 17, 2022

I'd say it depends on how much weight you are willing to lug around.

The heavier the rifle the more forgiving it is, more weight doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot better but it will be more forgiving in awkward positions (I think you already know this).

I'd probably go for a chassis like the KRG Bravo which is fairly lightweight but has the ability to be kitted out with weights if need be.

I'd probably stick to 6.5CM for now unless you specifically want to rechamber or get a heavier, lighter (carbon), or longer barrel.
I fit the CTR contour is plenty heavy enough yet not too heavy if you are counting ounces.
If it's also shooting well then don't change it unless you feel you need to.

I've started shooting 130gr bullets in my CM and find they are a good compromise vs going for a 6mm cal.
I'm getting 2920fps from my 24"CTR and the recoil is pretty tame, yet get the bigger splash from the bigger bullet so I can see all my misses.

Simonsza1 · Jun 17, 2022

beetroot said:
I'd say it depends on how much weight you are willing to lug around.

The heavier the rifle the more forgiving it is, more weight doesn't necessarily mean you will shoot better but it will be more forgiving in awkward positions (I think you already know this).

I'd probably go for a chassis like the KRG Bravo which is fairly lightweight but has the ability to be kitted out with weights if need be.

I'd probably stick to 6.5CM for now unless you specifically want to rechamber or get a heavier, lighter (carbon), or longer barrel.
I fit the CTR contour is plenty heavy enough yet not too heavy if you are counting ounces.
If it's also shooting well then don't change it unless you feel you need to.

I've started shooting 130gr bullets in my CM and find they are a good compromise vs going for a 6mm cal.
I'm getting 2920fps from my 24"CTR and the recoil is pretty tame, yet get the bigger splash from the bigger bullet so I can see all my misses.

I agree! I as well went to 130s for the same reason in my 6.5cm years ago and I also hover around 2920fps with a fairly mild load. I use a xylo chassis and shoot as is for field and team matches right under 16lbs with everything on it. Then I add weights to it for prs type matches where there’s no real movement other then a little walking. Taking the weights on and off is super easy so just depends what event is next.

ChidJ · Jun 17, 2022

Done Mammoth twice now and am going back again this year. I would say that a big thing would be to look at your kit. 5 more pounds on your back is dramatic, especially if you don't do this type of stuff for a living. I think your Tikka is more than adequate for the shooting portion but if you wanted to go heavier, I would first look at all your other kit and figure out where you can save weight. Cut 4 lbs out of your pack and then its a wash if you decide to, say, rebarrel the Tikka with something heavier/longer.

My rifles, year to year, have gotten heavier and heavier. My kit has gotten lighter and lighter to compensate.

Also, as you may have experienced, many miss out on more points by making mental errors or timing out than you do whiffing targets. I say this only to suggest that I wouldn't necessarily invest so much (to me at least) for marginal rifle improvements.

All this is mostly Mammoth specific. For normal gun games (NRL/PRS) the rifle weight would make a lot more difference. Add weight, no brainer

JustSendit · Jun 17, 2022

I would go the chassis route. 12-14lbs is the sweet spot for field matches. So long as you can carry the weight. If the movements are a struggle then keep the setup light.

A new chassis that you can reconfigure for multiple types of comps might make that tikka more versatile.

I would consider switching to 130s, I think there’s a benefit for a flatter trajectory shooting unknown distance targets.

Or switch to 6mm, there’s an advantage to shooting a fast 6mm at mammoth imo.

kthomas · Jun 18, 2022

Rebarrel with a ~22" 6/6.5 Creedmoor in 3B contour or similar. Place into a KRG Bravo Chassis.

beetroot · Jun 18, 2022

kthomas said:
Rebarrel with a ~22" 6/6.5 Creedmoor in 3B contour or similar. Place into a KRG Bravo Chassis.

Surprised to see that barrel recommended.

Id have thought a 22" 3b would barely be any lighter than his current 20" CTR barrel, with minimal velocity increase is sticking with 6.5CM, hardly seems worth the effort.

Not saying your wrong, just not what I'd expect.
Usual hide recommendations would be go carbon or MTU and stop being a pussy.

kthomas · Jun 18, 2022

beetroot said:
Surprised to see that barrel recommended.

Id have thought a 22" 3b would barely be any lighter than his current 20" CTR barrel, with minimal velocity increase is sticking with 6.5CM, hardly seems worth the effort.

Not saying your wrong, just not what I'd expect.
Usual hide recommendations would be go carbon or MTU and stop being a pussy.

Perhaps a medium Palma or Hawkhill "marksman" would get a bit closer to that range.

Admittedly I don't know what contour the CTR has. My rifle with 18" 3B in a KRG Bravo is around the ~13-14 lb mark. But it also has a decent weight scope on it.

My top of the head estimations may be off, and thus I'm providing bad advice

beetroot · Jun 18, 2022

kthomas said:
Perhaps a medium Palma or Hawkhill "marksman" would get a bit closer to that range.

Admittedly I don't know what contour the CTR has. My rifle with 18" 3B in a KRG Bravo is around the ~13-14 lb mark. But it also has a decent weight scope on it.

My top of the head estimations may be off, and thus I'm providing bad advice

CTR contour is similar to light plama, so a bit heavier profile than a 3b.

You must have a very heavy scope or a few accessories adding weight to your rifle.
My CTR with a 24" barrel, Spuhr, Delta stryker and with factory stock weights a touch under 11lbs.

The Bravo is only a few oz heavier than the CTR stock by my calcuations.

kthomas · Jun 18, 2022

beetroot said:
CTR contour is similar to light plama, so a bit heavier profile than a 3b.

You must have a very heavy scope or a few accessories adding weight to your rifle.
My CTR with a 24" barrel, Spuhr, Delta stryker and with factory stock weights a touch under 11lbs.

The Bravo is only a few oz heavier than the CTR stock by my calcuations.

Yeah I guess I'm off.

My scope is a K624i.

Anyways, ignore my advice, apparently I'm a bit off.

RogueTanker · Jun 18, 2022

Depends on personal capabilities, but pounds equal pain. Flat shooting for the unknown distances allow for greater margin of error and there is little wind out there at Gordon. So next year I'm thinking a 18-20" 22br, 22cm or 6cm. I ran a 19" 6 creed and it did fine. I ran a sub 12lb rifle with a suppressor and next year for the recoil management I will run a brake.

PS bring a tripod. It was essentially required on two stages this year.

beetroot · Jun 19, 2022

kthomas said:
Yeah I guess I'm off.

My scope is a K624i.

Anyways, ignore my advice, apparently I'm a bit off.

How do you find the 3b contour for a lighting weight precision rifle?

I'm planning a build and can't decide whether a 3b would be heavy enough for long strings of shooting, or whether to go light palma.

Do you happen to know how much your 18" 3b weighs?

kthomas · Jun 19, 2022

beetroot said:
How do you find the 3b contour for a lighting weight precision rifle?

I'm planning a build and can't decide whether a 3b would be heavy enough for long strings of shooting, or whether to go light palma.

Do you happen to know how much your 18" 3b weighs?

Limited experience with it so far, but so far I am really liking it.

The rifle is around 16-17# in a JAE I believe, should be around 14# or so in a KRG Bravo. I have a spreadsheet somewhere with the exact weight of every component, I'll have to dig that up. The barrel itself had a shipping weight of 4.7#'s if that means anything to you.

kthomas · Jun 19, 2022

Just dug up my spreadsheet. 13.15lbs with the KRG Bravo. That weight also includes a suppressor (1 lb).

So my memory was a bit off.

Knowing this now, I would suggest a medium Palma or something like a Hawkhill Marksman profile for the OP. For reference, my wife's 24" heavy Palma rifle in KRG Bravo is around 18 lbs.

beetroot · Jun 25, 2022

bonesaw00001 said:
Hey y'all, my teammate and I tried mammoth for the first time this past January and hope to reshoot it again for 2023. As primary shooter, I ended up running a 20" Tikka T3x CTR in 6.5 CM in original plastic stock, which weighed out at 12.5 lbs after suppressor, scope, and bipod. I think I'd benefit from a heavier rifle and higher velocity (I'm hitting around 2550 with factory 6.5cm 140gr out of the tikka), but I'm not a regular PRS or field event competitor, so what do I know.

I'm weighing running a 24" Havak HIT in 6.5 CM, which is pretty damn heavy at 17 lbs with bipod and a Razor scope, without an additional 1 lb suppressor, especially if I have to shoot it offhand.

Alternatively, I could drop the Tikka in a chassis and/or rebarrel it, leaving it at closer to 14 lbs. The CTR shoots around .8-1 MOA with factory ammo and otherwise is terrific.

Looks like prior winners' rifles were about 16 lbs.

If you had $2k to budget to improve your set up, how would you spend it?

I just picked up a Bravo for my Tikka, with all the butt spacers it weighs an additional 13.2oz compared to the factory stock.
Although my stock is the adjustable cheek piece version so probably weighs a little more than the non-adjust version.
The Chassis seems to have a bit more weight in the rear as the ballance point is moved back a small about, still in front of the mag well.

Having shot a few "field type matches" in recent weeks I think you money would be best spent in this order:
Chassis upgrade
Bipod
Better scope (provided your scope is a middle of the road scope)

The KRG isn't too heavy and keeps a more traditional feel but give you ability to tune balance/weight at a low cost.
Having shot a few offhand stages my 12lb Tikka in the facotry stock did considerably better than guys with heavy rifles (likely a training issue more than anything) but the Bravo advatages are probably worth a little bit of weight gain.

I'm still shooting with a notched Harris bipod, I always said the day I start loosing points purely because of the Harris I'll upgrade. Well that day might have come, I think the only bipod worth going to is the Ckyepod as the ability to set it wide/low or narrow/tall (or in the middle) is helpful for weird/awkard positions. Many other bipods do offer advantages over the Harris but I think the Ckyepod is what I'd go to if/when I upgrade.

Scopes are a whole topic on their own but for me having the widest posibile FOV is a huge benefit to competitive shooting, then make sure the reticle and turret design/setup suits your uses.

bonesaw00001 · Jun 26, 2022

beetroot said:
I just picked up a Bravo for my Tikka, with all the butt spacers it weighs an additional 13.2oz compared to the factory stock.
Although my stock is the adjustable cheek piece version so probably weighs a little more than the non-adjust version.
The Chassis seems to have a bit more weight in the rear as the ballance point is moved back a small about, still in front of the mag well.

Having shot a few "field type matches" in recent weeks I think you money would be best spent in this order:
Chassis upgrade
Bipod
Better scope (provided your scope is a middle of the road scope)

The KRG isn't too heavy and keeps a more traditional feel but give you ability to tune balance/weight at a low cost.
Having shot a few offhand stages my 12lb Tikka in the facotry stock did considerably better than guys with heavy rifles (likely a training issue more than anything) but the Bravo advatages are probably worth a little bit of weight gain.

I'm still shooting with a notched Harris bipod, I always said the day I start loosing points purely because of the Harris I'll upgrade. Well that day might have come, I think the only bipod worth going to is the Ckyepod as the ability to set it wide/low or narrow/tall (or in the middle) is helpful for weird/awkard positions. Many other bipods do offer advantages over the Harris but I think the Ckyepod is what I'd go to if/when I upgrade.

Scopes are a whole topic on their own but for me having the widest posibile FOV is a huge benefit to competitive shooting, then make sure the reticle and turret design/setup suits your uses.

Appreciate the great advice! I'm looking at a McRees G10 or XLR element chassis (want a folder) and I'm thinking about swapping out my vortex viper PST for a gen 2 razor that I picked up on the cheap with a coupon from mammoth hah. It's an additional 1 lb weight penalty, but hopefully a worthwhile upgrade.

bonesaw00001 · Jun 26, 2022

I'd been running a 1lb suppressor, but thinking about swapping for a brake for weight savings as well..

beetroot · Jun 26, 2022

bonesaw00001 said:
Appreciate the great advice! I'm looking at a McRees G10 or XLR element chassis (want a folder) and I'm thinking about swapping out my vortex viper PST for a gen 2 razor that I picked up on the cheap with a coupon from mammoth hah. It's an additional 1 lb weight penalty, but hopefully a worthwhile upgrade.

If you aren't worried about the weight of a Razor then it'll be a decent upgrade over the PST, probably the biggest advantage being having locked windage. If you are worried about weight then probably not the best choice.

Swapping a suppressor for a brake would certainly save some weight but have the downside of bein unsuppressed (which may not bother you).
If you are happy to go unsuppressed then it opens up the option of rebarrelling with a longer barrel.

NewsShooter · Jul 2, 2022

bonesaw00001 said:
Appreciate the great advice! I'm looking at a McRees G10 or XLR element chassis (want a folder) and I'm thinking about swapping out my vortex viper PST for a gen 2 razor that I picked up on the cheap with a coupon from mammoth hah. It's an additional 1 lb weight penalty, but hopefully a worthwhile upgrade.

Get the element, it is lighter, get the magnesium model and it's lighter still. I had a McRees folder but hardly ever used the folding option. Sold it for an element.

bonesaw00001 · Jul 2, 2022

NewsShooter said:
Get the element, it is lighter, get the magnesium model and it's lighter still. I had a McRees folder but hardly ever used the folding option. Sold it for an element.

Thanks for the advice! I think the folder's going to be a must to help pack this thing for mammoth. Got way too close to losing my rifle off my bag strapped horizontally to my pack.

teddy12b · Jul 5, 2022

I've done Mammoth twice and plan to sign up for the next one in 2023. I reverse engineer the whole thing and start with a total max weight I'm willing to haul around. I'm not a 20 something year old stud, and I'm not kidding myself about that. My goal for the 2023 competition is 45# absolute max. Last year I was around 43#, and my partner was just shy of 40#. I start with how I'm going to sleep, and this year I'm probably going to take a gatewood cape, a nemo tensor, and top quilt for my sleep system and those work out to around 3#. Food is going to be around 3# per day of packed weight at 6# total and my toaks 750ml pot with stove and 4oz fuel can with a bic is just shy of a pound. My pack is a Mystery Ranch Terraframe 50L that's 5#, but rides like a dream. I take a spare sock & underwear for each day and a first aid kit full of moleskin. The rangfinder, rifle, rifle ammo, pistol, pistol ammo, spare mags, and 100 rounds each of rifle and pistol will make up the remaining bulk of the weight. I'm just mentioning these things, because weight adds up so quickly.

Some of the ranges where the targets are super far and really tiny, I just don't worry about nearly as much because honestly most of the crowd there isn't getting many hits either. So if you're there to win the competition that's one thing, if you're there to do your best and challenge yourself then that's a different thing. For my it's about pushing myself and crossing it off my bucket list. First year, my partner and I timed out on the last ruck of the second day by 15 seconds. It ate at us so much we signed up again and this last year we got through day 2, but my buddy's knee was in bad/swollen shape and we had to tap the morning of the third day. This year I have a different partner so we'll see how that goes.

So many people lose points each year because they don't follow directions on the course of fire. For example, instead of shooting their pistols in order, they both start blasting at the same time. They get their hits, move onto the rifle steel and get more hits but ultimately get a dismal score on the stage because they didn't follow directions. IF THE RO ISN'T SAYING "IMPACT" YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!!!!!

This year, my partner is going to run my 308 CTR with PST gen 1 6-24 in it's factory configuration with a bipod. I've got a 17# custom built gun that's a dream at a regular PRS style match but I'd rather have less weight to haul for Mammoth. I will likely either buy a CTR, sig cross, or something in 6.5cm that has a base rifle weight of less than 9#. Lightweight guns can be accurate too, and you're probably only going to shoot 10 rounds or so before you're rifle has a good while to cool down.

Just some thoughts, good luck.

bonesaw00001 · Jul 6, 2022

teddy12b said:
I've done Mammoth twice and plan to sign up for the next one in 2023. I reverse engineer the whole thing and start with a total max weight I'm willing to haul around. I'm not a 20 something year old stud, and I'm not kidding myself about that. My goal for the 2023 competition is 45# absolute max. Last year I was around 43#, and my partner was just shy of 40#. I start with how I'm going to sleep, and this year I'm probably going to take a gatewood cape, a nemo tensor, and top quilt for my sleep system and those work out to around 3#. Food is going to be around 3# per day of packed weight at 6# total and my toaks 750ml pot with stove and 4oz fuel can with a bic is just shy of a pound. My pack is a Mystery Ranch Terraframe 50L that's 5#, but rides like a dream. I take a spare sock & underwear for each day and a first aid kit full of moleskin. The rangfinder, rifle, rifle ammo, pistol, pistol ammo, spare mags, and 100 rounds each of rifle and pistol will make up the remaining bulk of the weight. I'm just mentioning these things, because weight adds up so quickly.

Some of the ranges where the targets are super far and really tiny, I just don't worry about nearly as much because honestly most of the crowd there isn't getting many hits either. So if you're there to win the competition that's one thing, if you're there to do your best and challenge yourself then that's a different thing. For my it's about pushing myself and crossing it off my bucket list. First year, my partner and I timed out on the last ruck of the second day by 15 seconds. It ate at us so much we signed up again and this last year we got through day 2, but my buddy's knee was in bad/swollen shape and we had to tap the morning of the third day. This year I have a different partner so we'll see how that goes.

So many people lose points each year because they don't follow directions on the course of fire. For example, instead of shooting their pistols in order, they both start blasting at the same time. They get their hits, move onto the rifle steel and get more hits but ultimately get a dismal score on the stage because they didn't follow directions. IF THE RO ISN'T SAYING "IMPACT" YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG!!!!!

This year, my partner is going to run my 308 CTR with PST gen 1 6-24 in it's factory configuration with a bipod. I've got a 17# custom built gun that's a dream at a regular PRS style match but I'd rather have less weight to haul for Mammoth. I will likely either buy a CTR, sig cross, or something in 6.5cm that has a base rifle weight of less than 9#. Lightweight guns can be accurate too, and you're probably only going to shoot 10 rounds or so before you're rifle has a good while to cool down.

Just some thoughts, good luck.

Appreciate the input! Hah, yeah, we dropped an amazing number of points by not understanding stage briefs and not stopping a re-calibrating when we didn't hear the RO "impact."

teddy12b · Jul 7, 2022

bonesaw00001 said:
Appreciate the input! Hah, yeah, we dropped an amazing number of points by not understanding stage briefs and not stopping a re-calibrating when we didn't hear the RO "impact."

It happens to everyone. I've yet to see a team that didn't blow a stage somehow. Last year on our first stage my partner got the nervous jitters so bad that he ran through his pistol mag, reloaded and ran through a second mag, then I handed him the leftover mag I had, then I started digging through my pack for more loose 9mm. My partner runs a G19 like it's another part of his body that he's had his whole life, but nerves got to him on the first stage. The very next stage I couldn't find or identify the target and while we were talking through it I eventually started eliminating what targets weren't mine by shooting them and NOT hearing the word impact. We both blew a stage right out of the gate and got it out of the way early.

beetroot · Jul 8, 2022

@bonesaw00001 my KRG Bravo with full length rail and arca spigot weights 795grams (1.75lbs) heavier than my CTR stock with fixed cheek piece.

teddy12b · Jul 11, 2022

beetroot said:
@bonesaw00001 my KRG Bravo with full length rail and arca spigot weights 795grams (1.75lbs) heavier than my CTR stock with fixed cheek piece.

That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see here. I don't haul around a tripod for Mammoth so I'd be looking at the KRG Bravo for my CTR without the full length rail and arca spigot. Adding 1.75# would be too much for what I'm after this upcoming year, but if taking those two things off got me closer to adding just 1# then I'd probably consider it. Is your KRG Bravo usign the Tikka mags or AICS pattern?

beetroot · Jul 11, 2022

teddy12b said:
That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see here. I don't haul around a tripod for Mammoth so I'd be looking at the KRG Bravo for my CTR without the full length rail and arca spigot. Adding 1.75# would be too much for what I'm after this upcoming year, but if taking those two things off got me closer to adding just 1# then I'd probably consider it. Is your KRG Bravo usign the Tikka mags or AICS pattern?

I have one of each.
Post #17 I compared the bare AICS Bravo to my adjustable ctr stock and it was only 13oz heavier.

I think you could forgo the arca rail but the spigot is a pretty nice addition.
If you aren't using an arca bipod you could get away with the minimalist spigot which should be a fair bit lighter.

teddy12b · Jul 11, 2022

beetroot said:
I have one of each.
Post #17 I compared the bare AICS Bravo to my adjustable ctr stock and it was only 13oz heavier.

I think you could forgo the arca rail but the spigot is a pretty nice addition.
If you aren't using an arca bipod you could get away with the minimalist spigot which should be a fair bit lighter.

I don't know how I missed that in #17, thanks! That's worth a pound for sure. If I were to compare getting a spare mag or two for the CTR, it almost makes up the difference of buying a KRG Bravo and using the AICS mags that are already on the shelf.

HaydenLane · Jul 13, 2022

teddy12b said:
I've done Mammoth twice and plan to sign up for the next one in 2023. I reverse engineer the whole thing and start with a total max weight I'm willing to haul around. I'm not a 20 something year old stud, and I'm not kidding myself about that. My goal for the 2023 competition is 45# absolute max. Last year I was around 43#, and my partner was just shy of 40#. I start with how I'm going to sleep, and this year I'm probably going to take a gatewood cape, a nemo tensor, and top quilt for my sleep system and those work out to around 3#. Food is going to be around 3# per day of packed weight at 6# total and my toaks 750ml pot with stove and 4oz fuel can with a bic is just shy of a pound. My pack is a Mystery Ranch Terraframe 50L that's 5#, but rides like a dream. I take a spare sock & underwear for each day and a first aid kit full of moleskin. The rangfinder, rifle, rifle ammo, pistol, pistol ammo, spare mags, and 100 rounds each of rifle and pistol will make up the remaining bulk of the weight. I'm just mentioning these things, because weight adds up so quickly.

I’m sure you know this, but that food weight could definitely be cut in half. Idk what kind of things your packing, but 100-125 calories per ounce should be the goal, getting you to 1.5-1.75# of food per day.

Of course, this doesn’t matter if you don’t mind a couple pounds and it’s only 2 days.

ChidJ · Jul 13, 2022

Everything is a compromise but I'll share an anecdote that dissuades me from cutting weight in the food department. First year I ran Mammoth, I didn't bring enough food. I ate all of it by the second day. They were MREs that I was cycling out of my food storage so not very good. Third day I was just running on water. I didn't realize how bad I was lagging until someone in my squad offered up a partial bag of gummy bears she was gonna throw away before the final ruck. Eating those gummy bears changed my headspace completely. Didn't realize how hazy things were until I got some quick sugar.

An extra lb or two on your back shouldn't slow you down too bad over the long haul, but starving might. I think I'd honestly rather run out of rifle ammo than food at this point. But everyone plays the game slightly differently so just sharing a thought I had

HaydenLane · Jul 13, 2022

ChidJ said:
Everything is a compromise but I'll share an anecdote that dissuades me from cutting weight in the food department. First year I ran Mammoth, I didn't bring enough food. I ate all of it by the second day. They were MREs that I was cycling out of my food storage so not very good. Third day I was just running on water. I didn't realize how bad I was lagging until someone in my squad offered up a partial bag of gummy bears she was gonna throw away before the final ruck. Eating those gummy bears changed my headspace completely. Didn't realize how hazy things were until I got some quick sugar.

An extra lb or two on your back shouldn't slow you down too bad over the long haul, but starving might. I think I'd honestly rather run out of rifle ammo than food at this point. But everyone plays the game slightly differently so just sharing a thought I had

I’m certainly not talking about not having enough food. 2800-3500 calories is easily achievable at 1.5-1.75#. MREs are a terrible food for backpacking, even if you have to carry all of your water for rehydrating meals.

ChidJ · Jul 13, 2022

I am for sure not advocating the consumption of MREs for Mammoth. That was one of a myriad of mistakes made. I ate 6 lbs of stinger waffles, GU Roctane power, and Mountain house last year.

Not to derail the thread but what are you eating that's 1.75lbs for 3500 calories? Only thing that comes to mind is trying to chug a half cup of olive oil for breakfast, lunch, and dinner haha

HaydenLane · Jul 13, 2022

ChidJ said:
I am for sure not advocating the consumption of MREs for Mammoth. That was one of a myriad of mistakes made. I ate 6 lbs of stinger waffles, GU Roctane power, and Mountain house last year.

Not to derail the thread but what are you eating that's 1.75lbs for 3500 calories? Only thing that comes to mind is trying to chug a half cup of olive oil for breakfast, lunch, and dinner haha

I do add either olive oil or coconut oil to everything for sure lol. Stinger waffles, pack out bars, peak refuel (better tasting and higher calories than Mountain House), gummy bears, and all the usual suspects make their way into my pack for sure, but the key for me is breakfast. With 2 packs of kodiak oatmeal, a scoop of nido powdered milk, some craisins and walnuts or almonds, and a tbsp of coconut oil, I can hit 800-900 calories for very little weight.

Similarly but more savory, a couple packs of instant grits, nido powdered milk, real bacon bits, crushed up moon cheese (or other dehydrated cheese chips), and a tbsp of ghee gets right in the same ballpark. I pre-make and vacuum seal them. Also, taking thinks out of the wrapper and putting in cling wrap, vacuum seal bags, or ziplocks can cut a surprising amount. When repackaging, adding a serving of some sort of oil or nido powdered milk added to dehydrated meals adds and easy 130-160 calories.

When I want to splurge and carry a little extra weight, butthole sandwiches and those cheese rounds in wax are the ticket.

I’m not an expert by any means, if anyone wants real advice on this stuff try to find what Aron Snyder or someone like that has to say about food, but hopefully this helps someone cut weight without cutting calories, and put that weight budget to better use. (FWIW if I pack more than 3k I almost never finish it. A deficit for a few days would do most people some good)

Sorry for the derail.

Edit to say I do not think a 17# rifle is a better use of one’s weight budget for this type of event. I’d take a 14# rifle and 3# more food to avoid expensive, bland dehydrated foods any day. The 12-14# range seems to be a good goal.

RogueTanker · Jul 13, 2022

HaydenLane said:
I do add either olive oil or coconut oil to everything for sure lol. Stinger waffles, pack out bars, peak refuel (better tasting and higher calories than Mountain House), gummy bears, and all the usual suspects make their way into my pack for sure, but the key for me is breakfast. With 2 packs of kodiak oatmeal, a scoop of nido powdered milk, some craisins and walnuts or almonds, and a tbsp of coconut oil, I can hit 800-900 calories for very little weight.

Solid advice. About the same way I approached it.

My general rule of thumb is 100cal/oz. Olive oil and other calorie dense items help. I also brought Snickers 3x/day for morale. Other items like electrolytes to keep you from cramping are a must for me as I am a heavy sweater.

Overall, sleep, food and foot care are what keep me functioning. That's where I will add weight. A 12# rifle is easy to get to if you keep it short or carbon fiber. A 22 or 6mm flavored cartridge is the answer for the match imo since there is very little wind, they don't have too much recoil and ammo is light. Also don't forget to go for aluminum 9mm for additional savings.

teddy12b · Jul 14, 2022

ChidJ said:
Everything is a compromise but I'll share an anecdote that dissuades me from cutting weight in the food department. First year I ran Mammoth, I didn't bring enough food. I ate all of it by the second day. They were MREs that I was cycling out of my food storage so not very good. Third day I was just running on water. I didn't realize how bad I was lagging until someone in my squad offered up a partial bag of gummy bears she was gonna throw away before the final ruck. Eating those gummy bears changed my headspace completely. Didn't realize how hazy things were until I got some quick sugar.

An extra lb or two on your back shouldn't slow you down too bad over the long haul, but starving might. I think I'd honestly rather run out of rifle ammo than food at this point. But everyone plays the game slightly differently so just sharing a thought I had

100% agree with this. First time I did Mammoth, I ran too low on calories. Second time, I had the right amount.

Normally, when I go on wilderness trips for a week or so I end up actually eating less than I plan on for a day. Why the difference for mammoth? When I go backpacking, I can stop or change my pace to admire a view, or enjoy a moment. For Mammoth, there is zero stopping on a ruck. You're going to have your nose down and get moving until it's over. Same or similar amount of miles of backpacking vs rucking event doesn't equal the same amount of food/calories for me.

ChidJ · Jul 14, 2022

Y'all get in for this year?

teddy12b · Jul 14, 2022

Not trying to derail the conversation, but food budget effects what you're willing to haul around for rifle and ammo weights. Here's some photo's that may help people in their planning. Next year, I plan to take more of the protein powder individual packets too.

teddy12b · Jul 14, 2022

Getting back on rifle and ammo weight, here's a few things to consider. Even the magazines you chose will have an impact, especially since everyone likely takes two mags per gun.

For us, we'll likely each take 100 rounds of rifle and 100 rounds of pistol this year.

bonesaw00001 · Jul 14, 2022

ChidJ said:
Y'all get in for this year?

Yessir

verdugo60 · Jul 15, 2022

This seems like a cool event; camping, backpacking, team element, fitness and shooting all combined. Might be good motivation to lose a few pounds, dropping 30-40 off of ME would be the best weight savings, lol.

ChidJ · Jul 15, 2022

you ain't kidding. I've lost about 30 lbs off of where I was at this years Mammoth. I'm not a lot faster but my joints and feet don't scream nearly as much. Now I just gotta keep it off through the winter

Gentleman4561 · Jul 15, 2022

I am debating what I want to use.

My main match gun is a MPA 6CM with an M24 contour barrel, might get a CF barrel for that.

Also have a SIG cross in 6.5 Creedmoor. Could shoot that as is, or see if I can get one of the 6CM barrels for it.

teddy12b · Jul 18, 2022

Mammoth is definitely a motivator for weight loss. As much as I look at the gear side of things, it's more important to be in better shape and to be honest with yourself about where you're at. My first mammoth I saw guys humping 80# rucks with chest rigs and then their rifle. Some of these guys haven't rucked since they got out a long time ago and think they'll just pick back up where they left off and by the end of day 1 they have some new realities in their mind. I'm in my 40's (actually turned 40 at the event a few years ago) and a bit of a dad bod but also do crossfit. It's a doable event, but just keep all your weight in the pack in mind. Your rifle is going to be the heaviest piece of your kit, so take that into consideration.

bonesaw00001 · Sep 12, 2024

As a follow up, my buddy and I ended up placing about 30th in 2023 and 10th this past year. Appreciate all the feedback and help here!

teddy12b · Sep 13, 2024

bonesaw00001 said:
As a follow up, my buddy and I ended up placing about 30th in 2023 and 10th this past year. Appreciate all the feedback and help here!

That's awesome and you should be really proud of that! That's a tough competition and it's the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys.

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