Short barrel 6.5 prc

Midt · Jul 21, 2024

Considering building one as hunting rifle . We mostly sit in blinds, by the time you hang a suppressor on the end of it, rifles get long and awkward to maneuver inside .

Was thinking 16-18 in barrel .

Don’t fool with reloading, don’t have any time for it . So everything would just be factory ammo .

With the short setup, am I just eating time/money ? Will it offer anything better than a good ole 308 setup similar?

Original plan was 300wm w 18 inch barrel, but based on reading so far sounds like that’d just be a really cool fireball making machine .

End goal is basically a short barrel elk rifle for lake of better description

BobinNC · Jul 21, 2024

Think more like: 308 Win for short barreled elk killers as any other good candidates won't have enough good factory loads to chose from.

Though many years ago I had a 338 Win Mag in a Sako Mannlicher Carbine with a 19" barrel that was not too bad shooting wise. I called it my toy cannon.

Don't know what good factory ammo there is in 338 win mag today, as I always reloaded for mine and I don't have one anymore.

The bigger magnum bores, coupled with short barrels, don't seem as obnoxious in firing, as their smaller magnum cousins.

Short factory 308's Win's abound, but factory 338 Win's shorter than 20" are rare. But you could have a barrel spun up to any length you choose, and mounted on your action.

I'd like a 338 win mag more better for elk than a 308 Win. Not that a 308 Win won't kill one, but I favor an edge in my direction if your going custom anyway.

Here's some light reading on the subject: Velocity in a 338 WM 18.5" barrel

338 Win Mag - How short of a barrel? Suppressed or unsuppressed?

powdahound76 · Jul 21, 2024

How far do you shoot from your blinds?

what are you hunting?

I have a 16.5” 6.5 creed barrel that runs a 123 Scenar at 2820 fps, a ways below max load, with h4350.
Awesome handy rig.

A SA non magnum for 400 yds and in would be my choice for antelope, deer, or elk.

I have used a different 6.5 creed barrel and a 140 eldm past 500 yds for deer.
DRT.

Im running a 300 wsm for elk here this year, because longer shots are very possible.
But have also done fine with a .308 (a Savage no less) and a Hornady SST on elk before I started reading how bad they are….

Midt · Jul 21, 2024

Mostly for deer in Tx . Usually under 300 yds

In the next 2 years I’ve got an elk hunt, and caribou in Alaska .

So was mostly thinking about ability to add some distance if needed

jbuck88 · Jul 21, 2024

For a data point. A friend's 20" 6.5prc is shooting 2680fps with factory 147gr ELDM ammo. The box says it's supposed to be 2910fps in a 24" barrel. So it's losing ~50fps per inch.

Secant · Jul 21, 2024

An 18” PRC is going to be about on par with a ~26” CM, ballistically. I don’t hunt from a blind, but I’d take the PRC over a WM for the hunting I do out west.

But like powdahound said above, a non-magnum could do everything you need with more barrel life and less recoil. Just depends on what you’

Hecouldgoalltheway · Jul 21, 2024

There is a pretty good existing thread on this topic. It contains some good real world data. I have a 20" and an 18" 6.5prc, and they have killed everything I've pointed them at. I'll be carrying the 20" to wyoming this fall for both mule deer and antelope. I wouldn't hesitate to use this rig on caribou, and many elk have been killed with lesser cartridges, but I'll be shooting 300wsm for elk next year I think..

Hecouldgoalltheway · Jul 21, 2024

jbuck88 said:
For a data point. A friend's 20" 6.5prc is shooting 2680fps with factory 147gr ELDM ammo. The box says it's supposed to be 2910fps in a 24" barrel. So it's losing ~50fps per inch.

Yeah, I get 2706 fps from a 20" with factory 143 eld-x. That looks about right.

abn31c · Jul 21, 2024

Having been around most discussed already, it's pretty hard to beat a 300 wsm in a shorty. Although RL16 seems to make magic happen in a short 6.5 prc. I'm building a 20" 7x6.5 prc right now.
.02

powdahound76 · Jul 21, 2024

Midt said:
Mostly for deer in Tx . Usually under 300 yds

In the next 2 years I’ve got an elk hunt, and caribou in Alaska .

So was mostly thinking about ability to add some distance if needed

TX whitetails are a short action hunt to me.
Esp with high percentage of shots at 300 and under.

Plenty of SA rounds work fine for elk or caribou and as noted, especially with elk, shots can stretch out.
I know in a thread that @Terry Cross noted a longer shot on a hunt in WY and was glad he had the extra horsepower of a magnum.

I saw that @MOUNTIC here is running a 20” 300 wsm with great speeds from Norma 180 gr ammo.
That would be a great choice for elk.
My 300 wsm barrel is 24” and quite a shooter.
200 gr at 2816 fps and 3 shots right at .300” (light hunter, not gonna heat it up with 5 rd groups).
Have not tested 180s and Berger Elite 180s will be tried.
In hindsight, I would have went 20” and tried to find some rl26…..

Midt · Jul 21, 2024

Considered the wsm, but factory ammo is limiting factor for me at this point in my life . Don’t have the time to tune anything for “perfect”

jbuck88 · Jul 21, 2024

Midway shows 13 different kinds of 300wsm ammo available right now.

I picked up some federal terminal ascent in a trade that I've been working though.

powdahound76 · Jul 21, 2024

Midt said:
Considered the wsm, but factory ammo is limiting factor for me at this point in my life . Don’t have the time to tune anything for “perfect”

I think he is out (he was selling it) and Mountic is using the Norma 180 gr Bondstrike 300 wsm and says it is accurate.

I also would not hesitate to run a 6.5 PRC in 18-20” and would try to find a good 130 gr offering.

I have been very happy with the knockdown power of the Hornady Black .308 ammo with the 155 AMAX on deer. No elk with one. Yet…..

I do almost always have the luxury of waiting for broadside shots…..

If I did not, I would likely look more at a traditional hunting bullet.

Havent ever taken a frontal with the AMAX or ELDM and may this year just to test it. Pretty sure it will be DRT too.
They have been amaxing (pun intended) on any quartering or perfect broadside.

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur · Jul 21, 2024

I push the 156gr bergers at 2850 from a 20” PRC. Haven’t tried much factory ammo though

Hecouldgoalltheway · Jul 21, 2024

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur said:
I push the 156gr bergers at 2850 from a 20” PRC. Haven’t tried much factory ammo though

Holy hell. Care to share that recipe?

I'm getting 2706 fps from factory 143 eld-x in my 20" barrel. Sounds like I should be able to push a 140 to 2,950 fps.

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur · Jul 21, 2024

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Holy hell. Care to share that recipe?

I'm getting 2706 fps from factory 143 eld-x in my 20" barrel. Sounds like I should be able to push a 140 to 2,950 fps.

It’s that magic dust, RL26. I stopped after 55.7gr as I was seeing some pressure.

Edit: this is lapua brass and br2 primers

2c1fr · Jul 21, 2024

I have a 20 inch prc I like it for deer in Mo I killed one at 456 yards but I do handload highly recommend it

Midt · Jul 21, 2024

Follow up for this rabbit hole ….

Since this is the interwebs where anything is possible , is there a theoretical rifle builder that exist where you can plug in all variants and it spits out all relative info ?

For example 26 in barrel 6.5 prc shooting 130 xyz vs 16 in barrel 458 lott shooting 500 grain xyz? See ballistics, energy , drop drift ect ?

6brshooter · Jul 21, 2024

Not exactly length, but I've got a 21.5" 6.5prc. 140eldm with h1000 is 2930 and 147eldm factory is 2845.

powdahound76 · Jul 21, 2024

Midt said:
Follow up for this rabbit hole ….

Since this is the interwebs where anything is possible , is there a theoretical rifle builder that exist where you can plug in all variants and it spits out all relative info ?

For example 26 in barrel 6.5 prc shooting 130 xyz vs 16 in barrel 458 lott shooting 500 grain xyz? See ballistics, energy , drop drift ect ?

Just make a made up rifle and plug data into your ballistics app.

Thats what I do anyways

May be a better or fancier way and thats the simple free way I use.

Midt · Jul 21, 2024

I don’t get out much …. Didn’t know that was a thing

spife7980 · Jul 21, 2024

Midt said:
I don’t get out much …. Didn’t know that was a thing

Here’s a simpler one

https://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

kthomas · Jul 22, 2024

powdahound76 said:
How far do you shoot from your blinds?

what are you hunting?

I have a 16.5” 6.5 creed barrel that runs a 123 Scenar at 2820 fps, a ways below max load, with h4350.
Awesome handy rig.

A SA non magnum for 400 yds and in would be my choice for antelope, deer, or elk.

I have used a different 6.5 creed barrel and a 140 eldm past 500 yds for deer.
DRT.

Im running a 300 wsm for elk here this year, because longer shots are very possible.
But have also done fine with a .308 (a Savage no less) and a Hornady SST on elk before I started reading how bad they are….

I do something similar.

18" barrel 6.5 cm shooting 123 scenars at 2850 fps (w/N150).

Lighter projectiles seem to be the way to go with short barrels.

MOUNTIC · Jul 22, 2024

Last 18" 6.5 PRC I had was just a touch over 2800 fps with 156gr bergers and RL26. 55.3gr. ADG Brass.

The 156s would shoot way better then the 143 eldx, 140 accubond, 127lrx, etc in the 18" barrels. Seemed counter intuitive having the heavier bullets in shorter barrel but actually was a much better performer. At least with RL26. Other powders would give me just stupid ES and SDs. Switched to RL26 and heavies and down to the single digits.

For my 22" 6.5PRC barrels the factory ELDx and also the 143gr Norma offerings shoot all under an inch 5 round groups. Eldx at 2923 fps. Bondstrike 143gr is at 2948 average. Both were about identical accuracy with 10 round groups.

The few 20" 300wsm's I have put together as of late are shooting that 180gr Norma factory bondstrike at 3030 fps (now barrels are broken in) out of 20" tubes. Seems like a pretty hot load but still maintaining under an inch 5 round groups. I've been doing load development on these with the 205 bergers and maintaining under half inch groups at 2820 fps average at 68.8 grs of RL26.

22" 300 PRCs also with that factory ELDx 212 just at 2800 fps. Started at 2742 and sped up to 2800. For a data point at least. The factory Norma bond strike ammo out of this same gun and the same 180gr bullets the WSM ammo has.. was at 3070. Under an inch 5 round groups also. So shooting the same bullet at just 40 fps less then the 300wsm..

I have a few 20" 6.5prc barrels sitting here I haven't messed with yet. But I think that 20-22 inch range for these guns is the sweet spot for hunting. The 18" range is little more picky and I leave the 14-18" barrels for my 308s now.

Midt · Jul 23, 2024

Good info folks . Thanks for all the input

tacoman69 · Jul 23, 2024

whats cool about short 6.5 prcs is you can shoot the same 6.5 bullets at 6.5cm velocities with a third more recoil

jbuck88 · Jul 23, 2024

Maybe more blast and a third more powder, but physics says the recoil should be the same

Emerson0311 · Jul 23, 2024

tacoman69 said:
whats cool about short 6.5 prcs is you can shoot the same 6.5 bullets at 6.5cm velocities with a third more recoil

Not with the same barrel length. The same argument says that if I don’t drive my car to work I can afford a bigger mortgage.

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur · Jul 23, 2024

Emerson0311 said:
Not with the same barrel length.

This was my reasoning for my build. I prefer 18-20” barrels (hunting) so my assumption was I’d be able to get 24” creedmoor velocity from a 20” barrel. In reality, I’ve got higher velocity from heavier bullets. Been quite pleased with it. Trade off is obviously more powder.

shootertom · Jul 27, 2024

Here's my $.02 on the matter. I have both an 18" and 20".

If you want to shoot shorter barrels, consider lighter bullets. I shoot 130 sierra's and they absolutely hammer game.

On my 20" rifle they shoot right at 3000 fps with RL26 and I am working on VV N565 (more temp stable).

The 18" is almost complete and I'll move on to that next.

If you have not purchased your barrel yet, get a 1:7 twist. The increase in twist will give a small gain in BC and buy back some of the lost velocity. I have been running C6 pre-fits with great success and you can basically order them to your exact specs.

I'm sure you can find some factory 130 sierra's or find a company that will load some up for you. You just give away way too much velocity when shooting factory ammo.

Or maybe reconsider a 22" barrel.

wade2big · Jul 27, 2024

jbuck88 said:
Maybe more blast and a third more powder, but physics says the recoil should be the same

A heavier powder charge is putting in more work in a shorter time frame (higher force) which means an increase in recoil. Powder adds to the mass moving and exiting the barrel as well. Physics and shit.

6brshooter · Jul 27, 2024

shootertom said:
Here's my $.02 on the matter. I have both an 18" and 20".

If you want to shoot shorter barrels, consider lighter bullets. I shoot 130 sierra's and they absolutely hammer game.

On my 20" rifle they shoot right at 3000 fps with RL26 and I am working on VV N565 (more temp stable).

The 18" is almost complete and I'll move on to that next.

If you have not purchased your barrel yet, get a 1:7 twist. The increase in twist will give a small gain in BC and buy back some of the lost velocity. I have been running C6 pre-fits with great success and you can basically order them to your exact specs.

I'm sure you can find some factory 130 sierra's or find a company that will load some up for you. You just give away way too much velocity when shooting factory ammo.

Or maybe reconsider a 22" barrel.

Have you tried a faster powder than rl26? Shorter tubes sometimes gain some by going to a faster powder(within reason) that gets closer to 100% burn(if possible). I use h1000 and 140eldm on my 22 and 25", but I'd try a 130 and h4831sc if I was wanting shorter.

jbuck88 · Jul 27, 2024

wade2big said:
A heavier powder charge is putting in more work in a shorter time frame (higher force) which means an increase in recoil. Powder adds to the mass moving and exiting the barrel as well. Physics and shit.

I always assumed that the bullet equaled the recoil. Learned something new today.

shootertom · Jul 27, 2024

6brshooter said:
Have you tried a faster powder than rl26? Shorter tubes sometimes gain some by going to a faster powder(within reason) that gets closer to 100% burn(if possible). I use h1000 and 140eldm on my 22 and 25", but I'd try a 130 and h4831sc if I was wanting shorter.

Very solid point, but wouldn't it promote much greater pressure?

6brshooter · Jul 28, 2024

Pressure is speed. Too slow burn and pressure isn't made and velocity is not obtained. Too fast burn and it will hit pressure before speed. In between those is a range that works nicely, the faster end of that range will be better in shorter barrel do to more complete burn in shorter tube.

XTREM HTR16 · Jul 28, 2024

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
Holy hell. Care to share that recipe?

I'm getting 2706 fps from factory 143 eld-x in my 20" barrel. Sounds like I should be able to push a 140 to 2,950 fps.

I hit 2,950 with a 140 elite hunter in my 20” 6.5PRC with 58.3 grains N560. Lapua virgin brass, F210M loaded to 2.950” COAL. Barrel only had 30 rounds down the pipe when I took it hunting. Might pick up some speed soon once it settles in.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Jul 28, 2024

XTREM HTR16 said:
I hit 2,950 with a 140 elite hunter in my 20” 6.5PRC with 58.3 grains N560. Lapua virgin brass, F210M loaded to 2.950” COAL. Barrel only had 30 rounds down the pipe when I took it hunting. Might pick up some speed soon once it settles in.

I can find N560 easier than I can find RL26. Thanks for sharing..

XTREM HTR16 · Sep 17, 2024

Update
90 rounds down the 20” Bartlein pipe and the same load is 2,970. N560 heats up a barrel fast.

I tried N565 with the 156 EOL. 58.5 grains got me 2,840 and great groups, so I’m taking that to Wyoming for cow elk this year. Haven’t killed anything with the 156 yet.

Midt · Sep 17, 2024

Follow up after some half ass research attempt, and reading here . ….

If built one long action to allow for longer OAL , and bumping barrel length to 20, could a guy squeeze a little more performance out of it with custom anmmo ? Enough to make worth it ? Can go with a little shorter suppressor, so length of rifle is basically same.

XTREM HTR16 · Sep 18, 2024

I get 2,780 fps out of the Hornady match 147 ammo in my 20”.
I get 2,775 out of the Berger 130 hybrid ammo in my 20” 6.5 creed.

I’ll shoot the 143 ELDX ammo this weekend to see what speed that factory ammo does.

I think you’d be fine with an 18” if you want to go that short. Even if you’re 2,700 with the 147, that will work for pretty much anything you’ve mentioned, except for real long shots where your velocity would drop below minimum.

Viking_Prs · Sep 18, 2024

Midt said:
Follow up after some half ass research attempt, and reading here . ….

If built one long action to allow for longer OAL , and bumping barrel length to 20, could a guy squeeze a little more performance out of it with custom anmmo ? Enough to make worth it ? Can go with a little shorter suppressor, so length of rifle is basically same.

BackfireTV on YouTube has a video on this. Basically 6.5prc handloads is where you’ll get the little extra you’re looking for.

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur · Sep 18, 2024

XTREM HTR16 said:
Update
90 rounds down the 20” Bartlein pipe and the same load is 2,970. N560 heats up a barrel fast.

I tried N565 with the 156 EOL. 58.5 grains got me 2,840 and great groups, so I’m taking that to Wyoming for cow elk this year. Haven’t killed anything with the 156 yet.

How long are you loading the 156gr?

evilsvt · Sep 18, 2024

18” is getting 2725 with factory 147s. I have some 118 tipped hammer hunters I’m going to load and see what they’ll do.

6brshooter · Sep 19, 2024

evilsvt said:
View attachment 8505163

18” is getting 2725 with factory 147s. I have some 118 tipped hammer hunters I’m going to load and see what they’ll do.

That will be interesting. At a certain barrel length, and I'd think 18" is getting close, the extra case capacity of a magnum is offset by slow burn rate powder and not gaining anything over 6.5creed habdloads. Not exactly apples to apples, but my 147gr load in a 20" 6.5creed is getting 2730. Factory 147 6.5prc is also running 2850 in my 22" prc. Just data points.

evilsvt · Sep 19, 2024

I’m going to start with Varget and 4831SC and what I can get.

6brshooter · Sep 19, 2024

H4350 would be as fast a burn as I think you could go. Variety sounds like it'd hit pressure well before you saw much speed, but I've been wrong before, lol.

evilsvt · Sep 19, 2024

I’m running 55 grains of varget in my 7 Saum pushing a 140 at 3100 out of a 20”.

XTREM HTR16 · Sep 19, 2024

HerCoStarNTheBeaverPictur said:
How long are you loading the 156gr?

2.955
I have a short action anTi with Hawkins hunter M5 DBM.

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