Has anybody else had any real life experience with the 223/556 68 grain BTHP? I have been reloading these pills and they are moving 2750 fps and shoot 1/2 inch groups but when used hunting varmints they are very disappointing. I have taken 5 coyotes and 3 foxes over the weekend and every one of them have needed follow up shots to get the job done humanely. All first round hits have been in the vitals. I expected a lot better results with this bullet but I think I will go back to shooting soft points after this weekend.
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Poor IRL performance of the 68 grain .223 BTHP
- Thread starter wyattgtx
- Start date
I could see that bullet performing poorly on varmints. In a .223 you probably just aren't getting the impact velocity you need to get it to really explode on contact. I'm personally not a huge fan of the .223 for coyotes, because I've just had too many runners, regardless of the bullet, but if you're going to shoot .223, those 53gr or 55gr v-max seem pretty hard to beat. The varmegeddon stuff performs really well too. I'll bet the new eld-vt offering will do a great job, but I haven't tried it personally..
It is a Match bullet, not a hunting/varmint bullet.
Yes but it is a match bullet but a hollow point bullet is designed for accuracy, stopping power, and uniform expansion on impact.
I have shot thousands of rounds through this barrel and thinking about swapping it out for a 6 ARC in the near future.
Nope, the hollowed-out area is there to facilitate pulling the bullet out of the swage once the jacket is applied. Better terminology is "open-tipped."
Try some Speer TNTs if you want actual hollow-pointed bullets (no heavies, though).
I switched to 6arc about 5 years ago, and I will never go back. I shoot deer with it too, and they just die. Coyotes just go down..
I've found that H4895 (unobtainable right now) optimizes precision for 55gr. SBK's and 69gr. SMK's but Varget was best (awesome precision) for the 77gr. SMK's.
I built a 224Valkyrie a couple of years ago and although I FINALLY got it to shoot (90gr. SMK's w/ H4350) I think the 6ARC (and it's original forms from decades ago) is a far better cartridge for heavier bullets in the ar-15 platform. When my 224V barrel wears out, it will become a 6ARC(-ish).
I built a 224Valkyrie a couple of years ago and although I FINALLY got it to shoot (90gr. SMK's w/ H4350) I think the 6ARC (and it's original forms from decades ago) is a far better cartridge for heavier bullets in the ar-15 platform. When my 224V barrel wears out, it will become a 6ARC(-ish).
Moving to a faster expanding bullet pushed faster is what you need. Some flavor of the 53-60 gr VMAX or Varmageddon will be your friend. The 53 VMAX has the best BC of the bunch but is not as accurate in some barrels.
Your 68 gr bullets likely do expand but not fast enough to anchor a small thin skinned animal like a coyote or fox.
If you want more dramatic effect stepping up to a longer barrel, or potentially a faster cartridge is the next step after a bullet change.
It is my feeling that the terminal effects from 223 are better from a 20" compared to the typical 14.5-16" carbine barrels. The extra bit of velocity does seem to help.
Your 68 gr bullets likely do expand but not fast enough to anchor a small thin skinned animal like a coyote or fox.
If you want more dramatic effect stepping up to a longer barrel, or potentially a faster cartridge is the next step after a bullet change.
It is my feeling that the terminal effects from 223 are better from a 20" compared to the typical 14.5-16" carbine barrels. The extra bit of velocity does seem to help.
It is a hollow point but it is not designed for expansion. The hollow point is there because the jacket is put on from the bullet base and formed to at the meplat(point). Hornady does not make HP hunting/varmint bullets. Their entire hunting line is based on using tipped bullets to initiate expansion.
Match bullets are notorious for inconsistencies in expansion. IN some cases they pencil through and other times blow up and fragment.
Uniform expansion on impact IS NOT what those bullets are designed for as you have certainly learned. Some hollow points will expand or fragment reliably but the Hornadys don’t.
Buy better bullets, the Hornady BTHP’s are hot garbage. Berger and Lapua are the way to go if you want terminal performance out of a BTHP match bullet.
I've used several. Primarily the 87gr v-max. It really does a number on them. I'm sure this new eld-vt is going to be even better, I just haven't had time to test it on live animals..
I have had equally poor results with the 69gr SMK out of a .223 at 2,855 FPS (20" bolt gun). Boiler room shots that resulted in the animal running off 200 yards and dying are pretty frustrating.
Occasionally you will get a bullet that tumbles in a way that opens a huge exit hole, or you are lucky and hit bone. I have had a couple of my SMK kills provide larger exits than anything else. It can get a guy excited until he understands that it is an undesigned result, rather than an expected one.
The ELD-M has started working for me well lately on critters. I am going to continue to investigate as my cartridge/bullet sample size is only one (6.5x47/130gr). I already have everything to start the 6CM/108gr next year.
Occasionally you will get a bullet that tumbles in a way that opens a huge exit hole, or you are lucky and hit bone. I have had a couple of my SMK kills provide larger exits than anything else. It can get a guy excited until he understands that it is an undesigned result, rather than an expected one.
The ELD-M has started working for me well lately on critters. I am going to continue to investigate as my cartridge/bullet sample size is only one (6.5x47/130gr). I already have everything to start the 6CM/108gr next year.
Not this type of hollow point. Hollow point match bullets have a hollow point as an artifact of the manufacturing process. Hollow point expanding bullets have a hollow point that is meant to expand. Entirely different use cases.
You'll see with expanding hollow points the meplat is considerably larger (lower BC), with visible exposed lead most of the time, and usually accompanied with serrations to create uniform shear points. OTM/BTHP bullets will fragment at best, but usually pencil through a ways then yaw and may/may not fragment.
Get some Vmax's, ELD-M (similar construction to Vmax just longer/heavier), Sierra Varminters, or Varmint grenades or the like for .223 Coyotes.
Probably the best example of this is the difference between the Berger 52 gr Varmint and the 52 gr Target bullets. G1 coefficients are. .201 and .235.
The Berger target bullets still have very good (and consistent) terminal performance though. I’ve shot a lot of stuff with their .22 77gr OTM’s, 6mm 65gr BTHP and 105gr Hybrid, 6.5mm 130gr and 140gr Hybrids, .30 185gr Juggs and 215gr Hybrids and they have had the same performance every single time.
Anyone who thinks berger otm's perform well on game, hasn't shot enough game to know what he's talking about.
If you want to lose animals, shoot them with otm's.
If you want to lose animals, shoot them with otm's.
Well, that's good. May they find everything they shoot. Best I can tell, that is the worst performing game bullet you'll ever shoot. The tipped match bullets seem to work really well, but without a tip, they are fmj's. Now, if you hit something in the vitals with an fmj or a otm bullet, it's going to die, so, was that your point?
Match bullets are not designed with any thought to expansion or stopping power, they are designed with accuracy as the goal. Whay does the Hornady site say about match bullets for hunting? The hollow point is there as part of the manufacturing process.
The non tipped versions.
The tipped versions, Amax eldm or tmk, are some of the best killing bullets on the market.
OP specifically stated 68 grain hpbt, not tipped bullets.
Right but the guy I quoted said match bullets aren’t for hunting. I was merely pointing out that there needs to be a distinction between the two types.
Noted. Actually my choice for the OP's use would be the 60 gn Nosler BT Varmint. I don't have experience with the tipped match bullets on game, especially lite, thin skinned coyotes or foxes.
Vmax is my favorite for varmints honestly. The 87g 6mm is a freaking hammer but the 223 53/55vmax have both been outstanding as well.
Shot placement is always a major factor.
My level of experience is that I'm a varmint hunter and don't hunt big game. Nothing against big game hunting, it just isn't something I have interest in.
What you are saying is the opposite of the what the hunters that I shoot with are saying, but I will take it as a data point.
Fair enough. Most big game hunters kill about .5 animals a year, so factor that into your calculations. I'll kill 50 coyotes and 20+ deer in next 12 months, and I won't even pretend to be an expert at anything. I wouldn't take terminal ballistic advice from people who kill 5 animals in a decade. There are people on this forum that kill 10 times as many animals a year as I do, and I'll bet they agree with me, not your buddies, but I could be wrong, I often am.
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