Brand new rifle stuck casings

R

Rteague77

Private
Minuteman
Dec 20, 2023
4
2
Arkansas
#1
Have a brand new Howa 1500 in 300 win.

First 40 rounds down the barrel and 1/2 of them sticking in the chamber. Stuck so hard had to hit the bolt handle with my palm to get them to release. Ammo was off the shelf new rounds 180gn Federal hunting ammo, Chrome casings.

Got home cleaned the chamber, inspected chamber, no issues I can find. Had some once fired brass casings. Ran about 40 rds in and out to see if they would stick too. About 10 of them stuck but not as near as bad as on the range. Just had to jiggle the handle a little bit and they’d release. The brass ones that stuck were also hard to close the bolt. No issues with tightness in closing the bolt on the new rounds.

Wondering if it’s just because it’s so tight and new? But never had any other rifle act like this.

Thanks for any help!
 
#3
When you say you inspected the chamber, how? It should be a mirror finish. It sure would not hurt to clean using an abrasive such as JB or some valve grinding compound to be sure there is no residual preservative coating. I'm not saying to try to hone it larger, just a very thorough cleaning. Be sure to rinse it out thoroughly afterwards, leaving bare metal.

I'd use some go/no go gauges, too.

Were those once fired cases fired in your rifle? If not, they are just fire formed to another rifle, so that's not a great test of anything.

However, now you do have some fire formed brass from your chamber. I'd full length resize maybe 10 of those and see what happens. If those are sticky, I'd send the rifle in to Howa for their inspection and remedy.

If you don't want to send it in, you can use a piece of brass and some valve grinding compound to hone it a little. It's simple. You can use one of the cases that Hornady sells for their chamber gauges, or make a similar. If you can cut threads for a cleaning rod, attach that case to the cleaning rod and apply a thin, even coat of valve grinding compound (800 grit or higher) and simply twist that case about 20 times while applying even, steady, but light pressure. Clean it real good and test. If it's still sticking, do it again. Realize the case you use will be trashed and should be tossed when you are done. A chrome one would be the one I'd use just because it would last a bit longer.

You can also just cut a slot in the case head, across the primer hole, and use a screwdriver.

If you use a sharpie, you can see where the case is rubbing/sticking.
 
#5
It's not because it's new, it's because it's a Howa... Get the case out, send it on down the road, and get something better. Not trying to be a dick, but I did own one many many years ago, and their QC wasn't any better back then...Which is why I only had it for a couple years, then traded it off.
 
#7
I have had a similar issue with factory Hornady 300winmag in a custom barrel cut with a Manson reamer. Going to swap the 7PRC barrel onto the action to see if they run OK. I'm thinking I might have to get the Smith to run the reamer a touch deeper.
 
#8
The 300 Win Mag as with all belted mags, they headspace off the belt, so one go gauge fits all the belted mags of the same case head size, example 338 win mag, 300 win mag, 7mm rem mag, all use the same go- gauge...off the belt.
So running the chamber deeper to fit the rest of the cartridge case will put the headspace out of print.
The headspace is set by the belt, so one has to adjust the FL die to size the rest of the cartridge case. Or custom dies for custom chamber not able to be covered by a factory die.
Been shooting belted mags for 50 yrs, 7mm, 300, 338, 350 mag, none has ever given any trouble, with mostly factory chambers and factory reloading dies.
All handloads no factory ever fired in any of them.
Just FL size to set the fired case shoulder about. 002" back from fired case shoulder position.
Most factory rifles are fired with a proof load, so any problems with extraction should be presented to the test shooter.
That's why I suggested trying several factory loads before complaining about the rifles function....after they show the same problem, then it’s time to be concerned and send it back, with fired case samples, that were problematic, from the several brands of ammo. If it turns out only to be one Federal loading....don't use that loading. And don't worry about it.
 
#9
So much miss information on this site.
Here is a belted magnum headspace gauge, next to just 3 of the many .535 " belted magnums its capable of checking headspace on.
Their case bodies are all different but the case head from the back of the rim to the front of belt are all the same.
So nothing can be corrected past the front edge of the case belt, as that IS your headspace distance.
Running a belted magnum finish reamer deeper will take your chamber out of print, with excessive headspace, and out of industry standards for the belted magnum.
 

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#11
Rteague77 said:
Have a brand new Howa 1500 in 300 win.

First 40 rounds down the barrel and 1/2 of them sticking in the chamber. Stuck so hard had to hit the bolt handle with my palm to get them to release. Ammo was off the shelf new rounds 180gn Federal hunting ammo, Chrome casings.

Got home cleaned the chamber, inspected chamber, no issues I can find. Had some once fired brass casings. Ran about 40 rds in and out to see if they would stick too. About 10 of them stuck but not as near as bad as on the range. Just had to jiggle the handle a little bit and they’d release. The brass ones that stuck were also hard to close the bolt. No issues with tightness in closing the bolt on the new rounds.

Wondering if it’s just because it’s so tight and new? But never had any other rifle act like this.

Thanks for any help!
Click to expand...
If you had not said this was factory ammo...
Belted cases have an inherent problem with being sized correctly right above the belt. A ring develops that can drag on the chamber, causing resistance and a sort of click as you lift the bolt after a shot. This is also a place where the belted case has a tendency to fail. LARRY WILLIS has a collet die that will rectify the problem. You might learn something from reading through that site.
I just ignore that belt.
I only use a set of cases in one rifle...those cases are dedicated for that rifle. I just bump shoulder 0.002" like I do on pretty much every other round. I anneal every time. I use that collet die after 5 reloads.
 
#12
ShtrRdy said:
It kinda sounds like the primary extraction timing is off.
Click to expand...
It could be, but being new, forged steel one piece as they advertise, (I don't own one), I
It should be in print as per engineering department. Because all industry uses CNC machines the tolerences are fairly generous, making it easy to hit and produce a functional part.
I have seen Ruger run their CNC s so fast the cutters flex and chatter, sharp burrs still on bolt. Not precision but close enough to be functional. The life of the cutting tool is always pushed against cost of the tool VS time saved on production of parts, even the CNC mill or lathes are all expendable tooling.
Easy to check how far the bolt cams the cartridge back from start to finish, fair to good, is usual, on the old braze on bolts, but they can be poor, on reworked actions.
 
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#13
Aftermath said:
If you had not said this was factory ammo...
Belted cases have an inherent problem with being sized correctly right above the belt. A ring develops that can drag on the chamber, causing resistance and a sort of click as you lift the bolt after a shot. This is also a place where the belted case has a tendency to fail. LARRY WILLIS has a collet die that will rectify the problem. You might learn something from reading through that site.
I just ignore that belt.
I only use a set of cases in one rifle...those cases are dedicated for that rifle. I just bump shoulder 0.002" like I do on pretty much every other round. I anneal every time. I use that collet die after 5 reloads.
Click to expand...
It's not a belt problem, it's a die problem.
I've reloaded thousands of belted magnums for various calibers over 50 yrs with no special collet die. Not that it's bad, but a FL die does not touch the belt cause it's solid metal and can not be sized, by a reloading press.... If it expands the primer falls out.
So one only sizes the brass above the belt through the life of the case.
The die is the problem as it doesn't size the brass down enough, like a small base die for autos...which is not usually needed.
The mag chamber vs the sizing die, tolerance in the .513" to .510" area is the problem.
I've never had this problem, with belted rifles I own. I used RCBS dies over the years, and one Redding, for belted mags.
Resized range brass, many different brands, H&H, old 375 Weatherby, down to 350 mag or 338 mag, trim and neck turn.
They all worked.
I also just set the shoulder back about .002" ave on belted mags but if the sizing die does it's part, ya don't need a special collet die...but by all means use one if your die isn't sizing the case down enough.

The only time I had case head separation was with Lapua cases 308 Win and firing them up to 40 times, using neck bushing die and every 3rd firing a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back.
Even this slight reworking of the brass and trimming to length over and over cause thinning toward the case head area...and case head separation occurs standard or belted case.
Here's a hand full of loaded and fired 300WM cases, range pick up, field finds, freebies, all sized and loaded in a RCBS die, factory chamber, hand load 200 gr SMK shot 5 rds into 1/2".
Or 230 SMk at 2960 fps, use an aluminum chassis and 3.715 or 3.850" MDT mags to improve the 300WM performance....stuffed with slooow powders.
Wilson makes an adjustable belted mag cartridge gauge to help set the shoulder back the amount needed for your chamber, may be helpful to some... and annealing after 4 or 5 firings will help with shoulder spring back irregularities.
 

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#14
FuhQ said:
It's not because it's new, it's because it's a Howa... Get the case out, send it on down the road, and get something better. Not trying to be a dick, but I did own one many many years ago, and their QC wasn't any better back then...Which is why I only had it for a couple years, then traded it off.
Click to expand...

i feel the same way about bergara’s. tight chamber and a broken extractor right off the starting line. not all that accurate either.
 
#18
45-90 said:
It's not a belt problem, it's a die problem.
I've reloaded thousands of belted magnums for various calibers over 50 yrs with no special collet die. Not that it's bad, but a FL die does not touch the belt cause it's solid metal and can not be sized, by a reloading press.... If it expands the primer falls out.
So one only sizes the brass above the belt through the life of the case.
The die is the problem as it doesn't size the brass down enough, like a small base die for autos...which is not usually needed.
The mag chamber vs the sizing die, tolerance in the .513" to .510" area is the problem.
I've never had this problem, with belted rifles I own. I used RCBS dies over the years, and one Redding, for belted mags.
Resized range brass, many different brands, H&H, old 375 Weatherby, down to 350 mag or 338 mag, trim and neck turn.
They all worked.
I also just set the shoulder back about .002" ave on belted mags but if the sizing die does it's part, ya don't need a special collet die...but by all means use one if your die isn't sizing the case down enough.

The only time I had case head separation was with Lapua cases 308 Win and firing them up to 40 times, using neck bushing die and every 3rd firing a Redding body die to bump the shoulder back.
Even this slight reworking of the brass and trimming to length over and over cause thinning toward the case head area...and case head separation occurs standard or belted case.
Here's a hand full of loaded and fired 300WM cases, range pick up, field finds, freebies, all sized and loaded in a RCBS die, factory chamber, hand load 200 gr SMK shot 5 rds into 1/2".
Or 230 SMk at 2960 fps, use an aluminum chassis and 3.715 or 3.850" MDT mags to improve the 300WM performance....stuffed with slooow powders.
Wilson makes an adjustable belted mag cartridge gauge to help set the shoulder back the amount needed for your chamber, may be helpful to some... and annealing after 4 or 5 firings will help with shoulder spring back irregularities.
Click to expand...
The thing that makes me disagree is that he said the last group were factory ammo( unless I totally misread the intial post.
 
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#19
Aftermath said:
If that's the case, why do the dies for non-belted cases not create that donut?

Click to expand...
You are obviously under-informed, even after reading what you posted.
The maker of the collet die says that the FL die does not "sometimes" size the case in this area enough...
So as he even states it's a sizing die problem....which it is, cause I've never experienced it in 50 yrs any of the many belted mags I've owned.
Non belted cases don't create a "donut", you say.
That is also false, they most definitely do.
But you are at the wrong end of the case if you're talking about "donuts."
Belted cases and non belted cases have the same issues, when you ignore headspaceing off the belt as every handloader does after firing a new case.
Autos in non belted cases often use small base dies to feed autos as chambers get dirty from propellet gas, or just a bit tight.
Its not "donuts" but case head separation.
New, Non belted 6.5 CM fired case expands above where the belt on the magnum would be...one the first firing as measured. Same exact thing happens a bulge or incorrectly a "donut" happens here, on all cases as designed to seal the chamber under pressure, the solid portion does not expand under normal operating pressure.
But normally the sizing die, sizes it back down, to fit the chamber of the 6.5 CM, an auto loading 6.5 CM may need a bit more sizing, or any other chamber where RCBC has made many small base dies to alleviate chambering problems.
Here is a 308 developing case head separation the same place as a 300WM, where the bulge or "your donut" would be.
This next one is developing a crack.
This is not an isolated incident, I have maybe 5 or 6 hundred Lapua 308 cases this way....but the sizing die kept resizing enough in "that area", just ahead of where the belt would be, to keep the going in the chamber.
It's what happens when you push them to 40 reloadings.
Make a hook tool to go down inside the case and you will feel when this starts to happen, then discard that case, belted or not....same deal.
 

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#20
oldrifleman said:
The thing that makes me disagree is that he said the last group were factory ammo( unless I totally misread the intial post.
Click to expand...
I was discussing others suggestions, as they needed to be answered.

You are correct, the man in th OP was using factory federal 180 gr nickle cases if I remember it all correctly.
Go back and read my suggestion to him..

My suggestion to him, was try 5 or 6 different factory brands and bullet weights from different manufacturers to see if any or all produced a similar extraction problem. That would be a easy button to see of its the ammo or the gun.

Then if it continues to be sticky, with all the factory ammo tried send it back along with the fired cases to have them examine it.
He paid for a functional rifle...if it's only that Federal loading,... don't use it...
 
#21
45-90 said:
I was discussing others suggestions, as they needed to be answered.

You are correct, the man in th OP was using factory federal 180 gr nickle cases if I remember it all correctly.
Go back and read my suggestion to him..

My suggestion to him, was try 5 or 6 different factory brands and bullet weights from different manufacturers to see if any or all produced a similar extraction problem. That would be a easy button to see of its the ammo or the gun.

Then if it continues to be sticky, with all the factory ammo tried send it back along with the fired cases to have them examine it.
He paid for a functional rifle...if it's only that Federal loading,... don't use it...
Click to expand...
You are right, totally forgot that, this getting old sucks😁
 
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#22
I find it sophomoric of you to try to tell me about the correct use of the term donut when the entire discussion had been about the area just above the belt. You be you, though.
 
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#25
Aftermath said:
I find it sophomoric of you to try to tell me about the correct use of the term donut when the entire discussion had been about the area just above the belt. You be you, though.
Click to expand...
YOU, are the one, and first one, who brought up donuts,... not me.
I thought you were lost and mis directed again. So to further educate you and get you back to the orginial subject, around the other end of the case, I had to mention it.
Your welcome, now ya know.
 
#26
45-90 said:
YOU, are the one, and first one, who brought up donuts,... not me.
I thought you were lost and mis directed again. So to further educate you and get you back to the orginial subject, around the other end of the case, I had to mention it.
Your welcome, now ya know.
Click to expand...
🙄
You go ahead and feel like you are educating someone.
I've been 100% correct, minus the description of the bulge as "that donut" when pointing to the spot, 0.220-0.223" on the belted magnum case that does, in fact, create a bulge after just a few firing/loading sequences. You may not even understand why a normal sizing die is unable to squeeze that spot together. I do. But go ahead and pompously tell us all know what you know about it.
 
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#28
Aftermath said:
🙄
You go ahead and feel like you are educating someone.
I've been 100% correct, minus the description of the bulge as "that donut" when pointing to the spot, 0.220-0.223" on the belted magnum case that does, in fact, create a bulge after just a few firing/loading sequences. You may not even understand why a normal sizing die is unable to squeeze that spot together. I do. But go ahead and pompously tell us all know what you know about it.
Click to expand...
Still contemplating those donuts?....
You say:
"a normal sizing die is unable to squeeze that spot together."
insightful...100%
 
#29
45-90 said:
It's not a belt problem, it's a die problem.
I've reloaded thousands of belted magnums for various calibers over 50 yrs with no special collet die. Not that it's bad, but a FL die does not touch the belt cause it's solid metal and can not be sized, by a reloading press.... If it expands the primer falls out.
Click to expand...
The belt being solid metal is NOT why the die cannot size the case at the point just above the belt...that region found above 0.220" and up to around 0.225"
45-90 said:
The mag chamber vs the sizing die, tolerance in the .513" to .510" area is the problem.
Click to expand...
No
45-90 said:
Non belted cases don't create a "donut", you say.
That is also false, they most definitely do.
Click to expand...
Your reading comprehension has failed you. That is not what was stated.

Now, please, sir, explain to the uneducated, exactly why a standard FL sizing die cannot size the area we are discussing.

Feel free to place a comma here and there where ever.
 
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#30
Aftermath said:
The belt being solid metal is NOT why the die cannot size the case at the point just above the belt...that region found above 0.220" and up to around 0.225"

No

Your reading comprehension has failed you. That is not what was stated.

Now, please, sir, explain to the uneducated, exactly why a standard FL sizing die cannot size the area we are discussing.

Feel free to place a comma here and there where ever.
Click to expand...
Two pictures are worth a thousand words... 100% of the time my belted mag dies alway size the area right up to the belt back to where they alway chamber easily....as even You can plainly see.

Never had a problem with the belted case not sizing down....but a few might, so get different dies or try the collet die, that's up to you.
So mostly it's a die problem.

My 300 Win mag die sizes the area in question back to .5105" after firing a heavy max 230 gr, 2962 fps load,... its .5122"

So all my belted mag dies size all my magnum cases enough to where they always chamber and extract easily, for 50 years never need a collet die... because the chamber /die relationship is usually manufactured correctly for many years, since 1912, with the H&H.
School is out, grasshopper...time for you to gain some practical experience, on your own.
 

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#32
Im2bent said:
You guys scared the op off by sidetracking with a reloading discussion. He used factory ammo. Although as a reloader I appreciate the info. And my 7rm always chambered with redding dies.
Click to expand...
I have a 45 year old browning 300 win mag that i bought new that always had factory ammo 250 + all types ....it always ran like butter imho he needs to contact howa
 
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#34
45-90 said:
Two pictures are worth a thousand words... 100% of the time my belted mag dies alway size the area right up to the belt back to where they alway chamber easily....as even You can plainly see.

Never had a problem with the belted case not sizing down....but a few might, so get different dies or try the collet die, that's up to you.
So mostly it's a die problem.

My 300 Win mag die sizes the area in question back to .5105" after firing a heavy max 230 gr, 2962 fps load,... its .5122"

So all my belted mag dies size all my magnum cases enough to where they always chamber and extract easily, for 50 years never need a collet die... because the chamber /die relationship is usually manufactured correctly for many years, since 1912, with the H&H.
School is out, grasshopper...time for you to gain some practical experience, on your own.
Click to expand...
Obviously, since the well documented bulge does occur, has occurred and will continue to occur, your 50 year sample of all sorts of belted cases remains a bit of an outliar. Of course, if it hasn't happened to you, you MUST be doing everything so much more gooder than everyone else.
As you say, pics are worth words.
The sizing die has a chamfer or more commonly a radius cut where the steel meets the brass. Without this ease, the die would scrape or cut the brass as the brass is pushed up into the die. That area does not size the case. Unfortunately, in the belted magnum, that coincides where the brass is thinned due to the forces of compression. The die cannot run across that area due to the diameter of the belt interfering with the stroke of the die, unlike your example of the 308, the die cannot size that area.
Here ya go, Skippy, a cutout view of the base of a standard die showing a chamfer.
Screenshot 2024-09-26 at 08.22.12.png
 
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#35
Your intelligence and knowledge of the subject is showing...
THAT'S NOT A BELTED MAGNUM
Your picture and statements do not apply.
Do you own a belted magnum?
You have no practical experience, just trying to apply a picture you found on the net, that does not even address the subject.
There is no bulge where the die does not reach it's solid brass with a flash hole...or you'd pull the case heads off by just sizing or maybe even firing, unless low pressure cartridge, like blackpowder.

Go look at your belted magnum die, ...oh, you don't have one!
It does not have a big champhered lead in, because of the big hole dia of the belt.
It only has a fairly sharp aprox .010" radius with the case having a .005" aprox radius, so it sizes right next to the belt, ....But the highest portion of the bulge is farther away from the belt....allowing it to be sized back down. As I have actually shown in pictures .512" to 5105" between fired and sized.
Plus the fact millions of other shooters, have been shooting and reloading magnums since 1912 in the H&H in Africa by professional hunters, followed by Weatherby, Winchester, for dangerous game...successfully all those years.

So you want to talk dies with your lack of basic knowledge, regurgitating things you've heard on line.
Here is a die set I made to make 35 Rem out of 308 for a shooting friend.
Notice one carbide die only has a small champher, and under cut with a modified shell holder to get down to the rim, way below where standard dies stop. Sizing the 308 W .470" portion to 35 REM dim.
No die maker on the planet has made a die that will take .270 Win to 8.6 Blackout with out lube in one sizing operation, as pictured with this crusty .270 case
308 to 6 dasher, 308 to 6mm ARC, obsolete and wildcat calibers, 401 SL, 351SL, 30 Rem, 30 RAR, 35 Rem, 510 Whisper.
Plus making cartridge gauges, brass go gauges, chambering my own barrels, building AR barrels from blanks.

I do not know it all and am always learning.
and willing to help and share what I've learned. I have the experience, and the tools, as well as a few others, you obviously do not.
Your clownish, immature, whinny, combative,attitude, like many, adds nothing. But shows alot about your wholly lacking character.
Plus if I had a problem with belted Mag cases I'd have already fixed it many years ago. I can make dies and collets.
Or just show a picture of you riding your tricycle...something you have actually accomplished. Or maybe a sized 300 Mag case?
 

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#37
Rteague77,
I had a similar experience that might be relevant.
My buddy purchased a used Rem 700 Stainless (Sendero?) in 300 Win Mag that appeared to be in brand new condition in the box.
Live rounds didn't eject effortlessly and fired rounds required a very significant tap on the bolt to eject.

A quick glance didn't show any obvious pressure issues or chamber issues.
However, studying the brass under a magnifying loop showed a distinct scratch and tiny divot in the same place about a 1/4 of the way up the case...on every case.
A bore scope in the chamber showed a little galled spot terminating in a bead of stainless that I missed without the scope.

A slotted dowel in a cordless drill with a few seconds of 400 grit paper and green rouge, followed by 600 and 800 grit with pink rouge resulted in a polished chamber and no galled bump.

Brass ejects flawlessly now and I suspect I know why the rifle was being sold despite appearing new!
Not sure if that is what you are dealing with but I would spend a few minutes polishing that chamber before I gave up on it.
 
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