Got a friend talking to a guy about making me a set of duals. He's coming back with Photonis high gain gen 2+. I'm not as concerned with cost but I'll take a deal if it's worth it. So anyone have an opinion on these vs a good gen 3?
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Night Vision Photonis gen 2 +, really worth it?
- Thread starter Romeo458
- Start date
I would default to Elbit or L3 gen 3 tubes in the vast majority of cases. The Photonis tubes from France can be less expensive and perform well with supplemental IR or ambient illum. Otherwise, they will struggle in dark conditions (no moon, low light pollution) where the L3 will perform well and Elbit will be a close second.
Edit: some people swear by the Photonis tubes, so it’s not like they’re crap like the Russian & Chinese tubes.
Edit: some people swear by the Photonis tubes, so it’s not like they’re crap like the Russian & Chinese tubes.
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I’ve heard the high gain stuff is noticeably better but the overall specs still seem to be pretty close to the regular
Gain tubes so I doubt the image is that much better (other than brighter and noisier). I’d like to try a set for sure, but more for the mixed lighting stuff like driving.
I know guys run the unfilmed tubes in mixed lighting all the time and don’t worry with it.
ETA: I have an Elbit PVS14 and it has been great
Gain tubes so I doubt the image is that much better (other than brighter and noisier). I’d like to try a set for sure, but more for the mixed lighting stuff like driving.
I know guys run the unfilmed tubes in mixed lighting all the time and don’t worry with it.
ETA: I have an Elbit PVS14 and it has been great
As mentioned, the difference between Photonis Echo’s most are familiar with and the newest 4G High Gains is significant. When converted to imperial gain values they sit around the 75,000 gain range. They do have EBI figures more in the 1.5-2 range, which is also a factor.
Also as mentioned, in mixed lighting conditions they perform better then L3/Elbit. Less loss of resolution and better halo control etc.
If they’re a significant saving for the 4G High Gains they would likely be worth it. If they’re standard Echo, Echo+, 4G, or 4G+ then skip them. They’re sometimes listed as Echo High Gains in some places rarely. There is also 4G+ High Gains with FOMS in the 2200-2400 range, but probably cheaper to go Gen 3’s at that point
Also as mentioned, in mixed lighting conditions they perform better then L3/Elbit. Less loss of resolution and better halo control etc.
If they’re a significant saving for the 4G High Gains they would likely be worth it. If they’re standard Echo, Echo+, 4G, or 4G+ then skip them. They’re sometimes listed as Echo High Gains in some places rarely. There is also 4G+ High Gains with FOMS in the 2200-2400 range, but probably cheaper to go Gen 3’s at that point
The question is.
How much is the system going to cost you?
As a general rule, goggle price brackets generally seem to be the following:
5500-6700
7000-8500
8500-11000.
If there's some significant savings there the next question should be. What is your use case?
As other's have expertly pointed out, Photonis tubes do REALLY well in mixed lighting settings. If you live in an urban area and you anticipate having street lights, car head lamps etc then Photonis is going to be absolutely fine. If you live in the midwest and it's darker than a well diggers asshole, you may want to consider spending the dosh to maximize your no light performance.
Keep in mind, regardless of what the internet says. With no moon and no ambient light, even the highest spec L3 tubes are going to struggle without supplemental IR.
I ran high spec 36+ SNR L3 unfilmed tubes at work for about a year. I switched to PVS31D's and I couldn't be happier. I'm actually considering spending a year in a set of Photonis goggles to see how those compare. I work in an Urban environment and there's pretty much always ambient lighting except for a few particular areas.
How much is the system going to cost you?
As a general rule, goggle price brackets generally seem to be the following:
5500-6700
7000-8500
8500-11000.
If there's some significant savings there the next question should be. What is your use case?
As other's have expertly pointed out, Photonis tubes do REALLY well in mixed lighting settings. If you live in an urban area and you anticipate having street lights, car head lamps etc then Photonis is going to be absolutely fine. If you live in the midwest and it's darker than a well diggers asshole, you may want to consider spending the dosh to maximize your no light performance.
Keep in mind, regardless of what the internet says. With no moon and no ambient light, even the highest spec L3 tubes are going to struggle without supplemental IR.
I ran high spec 36+ SNR L3 unfilmed tubes at work for about a year. I switched to PVS31D's and I couldn't be happier. I'm actually considering spending a year in a set of Photonis goggles to see how those compare. I work in an Urban environment and there's pretty much always ambient lighting except for a few particular areas.
Cost is estimated at 5k. I don't have a problem with that part. I got pulled in to the duals because of the price however.
I live in BFE so I'm gonna want better quality tubes it sounds like. I'm use to a single, and can even ride my dirt bike on a single without issue so I may go back to looking for one of those.
My unit is an older green gen3 and it works but a friend of mine let me play with his WP pvs14 and I want one now.
I live in BFE so I'm gonna want better quality tubes it sounds like. I'm use to a single, and can even ride my dirt bike on a single without issue so I may go back to looking for one of those.
My unit is an older green gen3 and it works but a friend of mine let me play with his WP pvs14 and I want one now.
Do you know what the specs of your current tube are?
5k, provided it's in a decent housing is pretty nice. Also, provided that the tube specs aren't shit. If they're shit, don't bother. In the grand scheme of things, spending another 1-1.5k is worth it to most end users to get tubes that they're comfortable with.
As a general rule of thumb:
30+ SNR
<1.0 EBI
<1.0 Halo
2000+ FOM.
I personally prefer quality screen cosmetics over higher specs but that's just me. I can't stand looking at blemishes.
I do not. I got them many moons ago. My main thing is I've never used a 2+ tube. I've had old Russian NV stuff for fun, and this one green gen3. I've been studying posts on here to learn about NV. Me and a couple guys have been talking about going to a NV class one of the companies puts on, I think TNVC is what he said. Figured I could fiddle with some different setups and decide what I wanted. Not much for NV shops in NE Iowa from what I can see.
I think that's a really intelligent way to approach this. Go to a try before you buy class and form your own first hand opinion. It's really hard to beat your own opinions based off of your own experiences lol.
A Photonis tube dual tube set for $5K is a steal if it's new and not in some shit housing like the Chinese Argus housing.
Photonis tubes do really well, if the OP is used to an "Older 3rd gen green" tube, he will likely be amazed with a new Photonis WP Echo. The Photonis Green tubes have higher gain also.
There was a helluva lot of propaganda against Photonis years ago by a "certain" company. We debunked a lot of their BS with videos showing Echo tubes in use down in the swamps.
At one of our NV classes where students go on a jungle lane course finding small camoflaged targets hidden in the brush, in a class of 12, 3 students that did the best were all running Photonis Echo tubes.
So it's not like they don't do well in darker environments, that's utter BS.
If you can get a new dual tube set for $5K with Echo tubes, I would jump on it.
Photonis tubes do really well, if the OP is used to an "Older 3rd gen green" tube, he will likely be amazed with a new Photonis WP Echo. The Photonis Green tubes have higher gain also.
There was a helluva lot of propaganda against Photonis years ago by a "certain" company. We debunked a lot of their BS with videos showing Echo tubes in use down in the swamps.
At one of our NV classes where students go on a jungle lane course finding small camoflaged targets hidden in the brush, in a class of 12, 3 students that did the best were all running Photonis Echo tubes.
So it's not like they don't do well in darker environments, that's utter BS.
If you can get a new dual tube set for $5K with Echo tubes, I would jump on it.
MH1 from LLI is the housing with photonis high gains, 7k-ish is the total it sounds like. It was 5k with some Chinese tubes.
The newest gen of MH1 housings were supposed to be better set up to accept Photonis 11769s. Evidently previous gen housings were not without doing some modification. I would confirm that it's the newest gen of the MH1 housing. Wouldn't matter with Elbit or L3 tubes but may with Echo tubes.
One off test, note the Elbit has significantly higher SNR.
If they’re 100% Photonis High Gains, I would say you can’t lose. The 1431 Mk2 housing seems to have decent reviews for a budget housing?? Assuming it’s the 1431 Mk2 on offer.
What lens? RPO Commercial Specs have a very marginal increase in distortion in very specific light conditions over the RPO 3.0 - that could be a good way to get lightweight quality lens for significant saving over standard Mil specs. Food for thought. Might make the price difference to the MH1 less of a gap.
After all that i find out the chinese tubes are white and the photonis are gen2+ green phos and not white. So I ordered a new 14 from Lowdown. Might get a COTI to finish off the setup and call it a day.
What's the typical SNR for those tubes?
Any time frame when the higher FOM tubes will be coming in stock?
Any time frame when the higher FOM tubes will be coming in stock?
OP: What you want is a non-Echo tube,,,, If you are only able to get those, as opposed to their high-end "MilSpec" (former Intens tube), then get an Elbit.
