New build concept

9245 · Sep 29, 2024

I’m planning a new build sometime in probably about 6 months or so, and I thought I would share the concept and see if anyone has any input.

I want a lightweight DMR style rifle for 1,000 yards and under that can still work well in close quarters, and also relatively lightweight and concealable. The concept is two fold, a no frills rifle that will break down in to a backpack for easy and discreet transport (I would like to try and get in to some hiking and maybe back country camping/hunting next summer/fall) and also something that can be used in an SHTF type scenario yet still break down in to a discrete bag to keep profile down. Mostly it’s an excuse to start playing with 6mm ARC.

So what I am thinking is a standard carbine lower except with a FAB defense R.A.P.S. Carbine stock, but the upper is the star, I’m thinking about using a quick detach barrel kit from Cry Havoc Tactical and an 18 inch 6mm ARC barrel and pretty basic MLOK free float hand guard and low profile gas block. I’m undecided on the bipod. I’m thinking an Arken EP-8 1-8x28 LPVO scope.

Broken down the entire package would only be 18 inches, and whatever the muzzle device is.

What do you think?

Redlion · Sep 29, 2024

Cascade Hemi · Sep 29, 2024

1-8X and QD barrel for 1k yards? Sounds more like 500 yards at best.

9245 · Oct 1, 2024

Cascade Hemi said:
1-8X and QD barrel for 1k yards? Sounds more like 500 yards at best.

From what I’ve learned that particular QD system is supposed to be able to stay within 1 MOA of zero. It’s also the exact same system used by the Air Force for their ejection seat rifle.

I do not see many LPVO scopes with more than 8X. At least nothing within reason for something like this. That’s why I specified under 1000 yards, a thousand I feel would be stretching it as is.

Biggy · Oct 1, 2024

LOL !!!

camocorvette · Oct 2, 2024

I recommend not going that route.

Jack of all trades and master of none.

Make a gun for shooting LR

Make a gun for being compact and close quarters combating and assaulting the trench.

Lots of us have been down this route. You waste a bunch of money and time. Then you end up with a rifle that isn't good at shit.

I vote 20" upper for longer ranges and a 12.5 for combating them close quarters enemies

JS8588 · Oct 3, 2024

@LRRPF52 has a solution for you. Welcome to the Church of the Shorty 6.5 Grendel.

Tictacticaltimmy · Oct 3, 2024

I think the concept is workable if you get rid of the QD barrel thing. Unless you don't actually care about shooting near 1000 yards. Even IF you get 1moa RTZ, having your zero off by 1moa will be frustrating for shooting long range.

I use an integrated folding lower on my 16" GPR, with the stock folded it fits into a normal backpacking backpack with lots of room for other stuff.

Keep in mind even a short LPVO will be forward of the receiver when mounted in a cantilever, so the overall package may not be as short as you are thinking, plus the front of the scope will be very exposed to getting banged around.

An LPVO, any LPVO, will suck for shooting 1000 yards or anywhere remotely close to it. Consider instead an MPVO with an offset dot. You'll get greater magnification, a much bigger objective that gives a better image even with cheaper glass, parallax adjustment, etc.

JR1200W3 · Oct 3, 2024

This guy definitely keeps the Chinese sweatshops that make Condor brand range bags in business.

ut755ln · Oct 6, 2024

9245 said:
I’m planning a new build sometime in probably about 6 months or so, and I thought I would share the concept and see if anyone has any input.

I want a lightweight DMR style rifle for 1,000 yards and under that can still work well in close quarters, and also relatively lightweight and concealable. The concept is two fold, a no frills rifle that will break down in to a backpack for easy and discreet transport (I would like to try and get in to some hiking and maybe back country camping/hunting next summer/fall) and also something that can be used in an SHTF type scenario yet still break down in to a discrete bag to keep profile down. Mostly it’s an excuse to start playing with 6mm ARC.

So what I am thinking is a standard carbine lower except with a FAB defense R.A.P.S. Carbine stock, but the upper is the star, I’m thinking about using a quick detach barrel kit from Cry Havoc Tactical and an 18 inch 6mm ARC barrel and pretty basic MLOK free float hand guard and low profile gas block. I’m undecided on the bipod. I’m thinking an Arken EP-8 1-8x28 LPVO scope.

Broken down the entire package would only be 18 inches, and whatever the muzzle device is.

What do you think?

We hit steel all morning long with the Geissle GRF 6 ARC with a 14.5" barrel and the Hux 30 cal can on it. I am not sure how much length you would save if you used something like a law folder. If you broke the gun into two pieces it would absolutely be packable.

LilGucci · Oct 7, 2024

You want something like this:

Or just build your own and save thousands of dollars. A 14.5 6ARC is the closest you'll come to reaching your goal. I don't know how a law tactical folder will work with such a build but maybe that'll allow you to break it down into a backpack.

9245 · Oct 8, 2024

ut755ln said:
We hit steel all morning long with the Geissle GRF 6 ARC with a 14.5" barrel and the Hux 30 cal can on it. I am not sure how much length you would save if you used something like a law folder. If you broke the gun into two pieces it would absolutely be packable.

Wouldn’t having the barrel that short detract too much from the ballistics? No doubt it would be fine up close and be capable of hits at range, but I’m looking for an effective round at range, not just punching holes. How does it do? Where does it go transonic?

From my reading 6mm ARC was designed to be optimized for an 18 inch barrel so what is being lost with that?

The point of the removable barrel was that the entire receiver plus non folding stock would be about the same as the barrel, with a fixed barrel and just removing the upper I don’t really see the point of messing with the folder because the upper is still going to be more than the lower.

ut755ln · Oct 8, 2024

9245 said:
Wouldn’t having the barrel that short detract too much from the ballistics? No doubt it would be fine up close and be capable of hits at range, but I’m looking for an effective round at range, not just punching holes. How does it do? Where does it go transonic?

From my reading 6mm ARC was designed to be optimized for an 18 inch barrel so what is being lost with that?

The point of the removable barrel was that the entire receiver plus non folding stock would be about the same as the barrel, with a fixed barrel and just removing the upper I don’t really see the point of messing with the folder because the upper is still going to be more than the lower.

I have no idea about the size of your pack. I have a couple and one will take a 14.5 with a folder and the other require it to be in two pieces. You will absolutely get better performance from a larger barrel but I kind of get a kick out of banging targets at 1k yards with the 14.5. The ballistics depend on the load, barrel length, ect.

What I really like about the 6 ARC is that it is a small frame AR platform. Without crap on it, it is in the 7 lbs range and with the bigger powder charge and more slippery bullet it outperforms the 5.56. I can easily buy factory Hornady ammo for $1 a round, Blackhills 77 grain 5.56 is $2 plus and does not perform as well.

I use it to shoot for fun and to shoot feral pigs. I have not taken a shot more then 300 yards at a pig but it does drop them (my opinion) better then the 5.56.

LRRPF52 · Oct 21, 2024

This concept used to be meme-worthy and brought a lot of ridicule, but developments in cartridges and optics have basically made it a reality now, not too hard to do.

I’m using the SB Tactical PDW brace and an 8.5” Grendel.

At close range, it will skull-crush most other cartridges. Makes a bullpup pointless.

There are at least 2 loads that will stay supersonic out to 900yds at sea level, and 1200yds+ for me.

Both hit 1 mil of drift in full value at 500yds.

For optics, you can go really compact and still make hits at distance, but I’m looking for some better glass in that space.

One of them has the glass but not the reticle, and the other has the reticle but glass is cheap.

Erase the term “rifle" from any of this, since we’re talking PDW to Micro Carbine size.

If you don’t want to go 8.5”, 10.5” Grendel and 12” Grendel are no joke either.

I’ve been shooting 12” Grendel out to 1k since 2017.

I regularly take it out of the small carbine case, and start shooting steel at 780yds just with an LPVO. I used to use a 1-4x LPVO, now 1-6x on the 12”. Will probably migrate the Vortex 1-10x G3 from another 18” Grendel to it.

But I’m looking at much smaller optics for the 8.5”.

Especially with the 8.5”, I don’t want to violate what one would associate with a very CQB-friendly overall weapon form factor.

The 12” suppressed already is great in that respect, but mine is kinda chunky in the weight dept.

Once you start looking at different projectile weights, it makes even some of the new higher performance 5.56 not interesting.

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