Does anyone still use case gauges?

tinker

tinker

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Minuteman
Aug 28, 2017
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#1
I still use them.

I called redding today because I bought a set (sizer and bullet seater) of redding competition full length bushing dies. I had only ever sized brand new brass with it as I only bought this set about 6-8 months ago and rand about 500-600 pieces of new brass for uniformity and neck tension with a mandrel after sizing. Before this I had always just used plain die sets with expander balls.

Well today I started loading some of my once fired brass in that caliber and it wouldn't fit a case gauge.....I checked everything thinking maybe I was overlooking something simple as of course I am human and no....it just won't fit a case gauge.

so I grabbed my RCBS match master set (which I actually like better) and after adjusting it to bump about 2 thousandths, it fits a case gauge, snug but it fits.

So I called up Redding to inquire and the older gentleman on the phone asked me "well does it chamber?" and of course it does since it was shot in that rifle. to which he replied "case gauges don't mean ANYTHING and you shouldn't bother with one". I explained to him I have several rifles in that caliber and will most definitely make probably 5 or 6 more in the next year or two and would prefer to have ammo that I know will fit them all......He didn't appreciate that at all. I said thank you and ended my call.


So I wonder, am I the only one left using case guages? I use one for every caliber I load. While it's true someone could make decent ammo without one.....

If I try to picture someone NOT using a case gauge all I see if a old fudd using a lee hand loader making 5 rounds of 30/06 or something similar for dear season so he can use three of them to sight in his ruger model 70 for the season and then miss with the other two.
 
#5
Cases gauges only commercially exist for common calibers. Never saw one for my wildcats and 33xc or cheytac even. A custom one to desired specs would be kinda cool I suppose. I have to use calipers.


I don't believe one leads to maximizing a loading for a particular system especially for benchrest,elr,fclass disciplines will only sometimes adopt body sizing and mostly for a minimal shoulder bump. And quite often as above we will never know since our chamber and calipers are our reference gauge in that case.

However if your looking to reload book safe ammo for a variety of similar rifles in a caliber, I understand and consider it a valid use case to use one. I assume you load with jump in mind for the smallest measured cbto?

I would be interested in your case measurements delta, between the dies especially if it's 6.5cr as I have Redding type s outputs fit a case gauge with .001-.003 shoulder bumps, using a Redding or Hornady shell holder.
 
#6
OREGUN said:
What’s a case gauge?
Click to expand...
1722301010918.jpeg
 
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#8
tinker said:
I still use them.

I called redding today because I bought a set (sizer and bullet seater) of redding competition full length bushing dies. I had only ever sized brand new brass with it as I only bought this set about 6-8 months ago and rand about 500-600 pieces of new brass for uniformity and neck tension with a mandrel after sizing. Before this I had always just used plain die sets with expander balls.

Well today I started loading some of my once fired brass in that caliber and it wouldn't fit a case gauge.....I checked everything thinking maybe I was overlooking something simple as of course I am human and no....it just won't fit a case gauge.

so I grabbed my RCBS match master set (which I actually like better) and after adjusting it to bump about 2 thousandths, it fits a case gauge, snug but it fits.

So I called up Redding to inquire and the older gentleman on the phone asked me "well does it chamber?" and of course it does since it was shot in that rifle. to which he replied "case gauges don't mean ANYTHING and you shouldn't bother with one". I explained to him I have several rifles in that caliber and will most definitely make probably 5 or 6 more in the next year or two and would prefer to have ammo that I know will fit them all......He didn't appreciate that at all. I said thank you and ended my call.


So I wonder, am I the only one left using case guages? I use one for every caliber I load. While it's true someone could make decent ammo without one.....

If I try to picture someone NOT using a case gauge all I see if a old fudd using a lee hand loader making 5 rounds of 30/06 or something similar for dear season so he can use three of them to sight in his ruger model 70 for the season and then miss with the other two.
Click to expand...
Ummmm.... Winchester makes a model 70.... Ruger makes a 77
 
#13
Herb Stoner said:
Not for rifle as sizing is monitored with a micrometer. For pistol coming off the Dillon is use an “ammo checker” - a case guage of sorts. I like it - this one…
https://www.armanov.com/shop/ammo-checker-100-rnd-with-flip-cover-36?category=90#attr=4
Click to expand...
you measure the base with a micrometer? I could but a case gauge is faster for myself.

I did however measure the base of a few with a mic to verify which part of the case was and was not being sized enough to cause it not to fit in the gauge.

someone mentioned gas guns. I totally forgot and then remembered I have a 308 gas gun and a 6.5 cm AR 10 then realized I also have an SBR AR10 in 308. So for me I want to case gauge ALL my ammo because even if I loaded it for a match rifle, I can still shoot it later in something else if I fee like it.

I just found a small 50 rd ammo box the other day while organizing some things. It had about 30 rds of 6.5 CM from doing some load development on a gun about 5 years ago i don't even have anymore. I will use those for plinking at steel for fun, But I know whichever gun I run them in they will run. May not be optimized for "that" gun, but will run just as well as factory stuff for plinking.
 
#17
tinker said:
I still use them.

I called redding today because I bought a set (sizer and bullet seater) of redding competition full length bushing dies. I had only ever sized brand new brass with it as I only bought this set about 6-8 months ago and rand about 500-600 pieces of new brass for uniformity and neck tension with a mandrel after sizing. Before this I had always just used plain die sets with expander balls.

Well today I started loading some of my once fired brass in that caliber and it wouldn't fit a case gauge.....I checked everything thinking maybe I was overlooking something simple as of course I am human and no....it just won't fit a case gauge.

so I grabbed my RCBS match master set (which I actually like better) and after adjusting it to bump about 2 thousandths, it fits a case gauge, snug but it fits.

So I called up Redding to inquire and the older gentleman on the phone asked me "well does it chamber?" and of course it does since it was shot in that rifle. to which he replied "case gauges don't mean ANYTHING and you shouldn't bother with one". I explained to him I have several rifles in that caliber and will most definitely make probably 5 or 6 more in the next year or two and would prefer to have ammo that I know will fit them all......He didn't appreciate that at all. I said thank you and ended my call.


So I wonder, am I the only one left using case guages? I use one for every caliber I load. While it's true someone could make decent ammo without one.....

If I try to picture someone NOT using a case gauge all I see if a old fudd using a lee hand loader making 5 rounds of 30/06 or something similar for dear season so he can use three of them to sight in his ruger model 70 for the season and then miss with the other two.
Click to expand...
I rarely use mine. If some cases don't feel quire right when trying to chamber them, I'll check with my Lyman case gauge.
 
#19
tinker said:
So I wonder, am I the only one left using case guages? I use one for every caliber I load. While it's true someone could make decent ammo without one.....
Click to expand...

IMO, sizing to a case gauge is effectively sizing to the lowest common denominator aka making the smallest possible ammo so that it will fit in every rifle possible. The net result of that is that you are oversizing your brass and will shorten brass life. And you may be running way more bullet jump than necessary.

For an AR platform, that might make sense if you have multiple rifles and need the ammo to work in all of them. For a bolt gun, I would not recommend sizing to a case gauge and I would agree with the perspective of the gentleman on the phone from Redding.

For a bolt gun, measuring with comparators allows you to know the specifics of your rifle and have dimensional targets for each measurement - the shoulder bump dimension that allows easy chambering without oversizing, the distance from bullet to lands, and even measuring base diameter and shoulder diameter to see if your dies are a good match with your chamber. Then when you are sizing brass you measure to see if you're hitting the exact dimensions.

Generally speaking this is a site full of precision rifle bolt gun shooters, and the vast majority are not sizing to a case gauge.
 
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#21
I occasionally use Whidden case gauges, which have measurements for every thou.

Easy way to directly compare brass pre and post shoulder sizing operations.

l_749-016-250_2.jpg


The datum itself (i.e. 'GO') is not necessarily important, but rather finding out how measurements compare before and after sizing.
 
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#22
tinker said:
I think he was being satirical implying he doesn't bother.
Click to expand...
I was being a smart ass. I don’t use one. I usually just check my resizing with my chamber and track using a comparator. If I’m running multiple chambers of the same caliber, I either have specific sizing settings for each or I size the lowest common denominator and accept that I’m working the brass more than I need to. The same goes for semi auto calibers.
 
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#24
I have a 6.5 mm CM case gauge. The ammo that I load for my rifle will not completely seat in the case gauge. Factory ammunition will. But, my loaded ammo fits in the chamber of my rifle fine. Funny thing, the case gauge doesn’t shoot any of the ammo, but the rifle shoots all of it. After realizing this last point, I’m not really concerned about what fits in the case gauge anymore.
 
#25
Sheldon N said:
IMO, sizing to a case gauge is effectively sizing to the lowest common denominator aka making the smallest possible ammo so that it will fit in every rifle possible. The net result of that is that you are oversizing your brass and will shorten brass life. And you may be running way more bullet jump than necessary.

For an AR platform, that might make sense if you have multiple rifles and need the ammo to work in all of them. For a bolt gun, I would not recommend sizing to a case gauge and I would agree with the perspective of the gentleman on the phone from Redding.

For a bolt gun, measuring with comparators allows you to know the specifics of your rifle and have dimensional targets for each measurement - the shoulder bump dimension that allows easy chambering without oversizing, the distance from bullet to lands, and even measuring base diameter and shoulder diameter to see if your dies are a good match with your chamber. Then when you are sizing brass you measure to see if you're hitting the exact dimensions.

Generally speaking this is a site full of precision rifle bolt gun shooters, and the vast majority are not sizing to a case gauge.
Click to expand...
I do measure with a comparator. I only bump the shoulder back .002". But they still fit in a case gauge (at least 99% of them do).
 
#27
Sheldon N said:
IMO, sizing to a case gauge is effectively sizing to the lowest common denominator aka making the smallest possible ammo so that it will fit in every rifle possible. The net result of that is that you are oversizing your brass and will shorten brass life. And you may be running way more bullet jump than necessary.

For an AR platform, that might make sense if you have multiple rifles and need the ammo to work in all of them. For a bolt gun, I would not recommend sizing to a case gauge and I would agree with the perspective of the gentleman on the phone from Redding.

For a bolt gun, measuring with comparators allows you to know the specifics of your rifle and have dimensional targets for each measurement - the shoulder bump dimension that allows easy chambering without oversizing, the distance from bullet to lands, and even measuring base diameter and shoulder diameter to see if your dies are a good match with your chamber. Then when you are sizing brass you measure to see if you're hitting the exact dimensions.

Generally speaking this is a site full of precision rifle bolt gun shooters, and the vast majority are not sizing to a case gauge.
Click to expand...

also I just learned it looks like redding dies are not suited to a Dillon 650. I don't really use my rock chucker much anymore. But I am seeing that Redding dies are meant to be used with their shell holders and will fall a little short of full sizing if using a standard shell holder. Supposedly you can tune it with their shell holders in the minus sizes.

I haven't tried that but prefer to do all my loading (bulk plinking and precision stuff) now on the dillon as it saves a lot of time for brass prep. But I could do prep on the dillon and seat on the checker if I really wanted to use the redding dies. Honestly I don't feel them sizing much between the two dies and from what I recall the base was only about 1-2 thou different from the two dies from not fitting the case gauge and fitting. I could agree the RCBS die would be causing a bunch of extra work hardening if it was 6 or 7 though but 1 to 2, I think I will see primer pocket issues before I see case head separation. But time will tell.
 
#29
Yes, I use case gauges.
I even make my own with the reamer I chambered the barrel for. They are not available in many wildcat and many outdated cartridges.
There are no, chamber gauges either, like go-gauges, so ya make your own, to chamber your barrel.
Checking factory cartridge gauges for accuracy with the go gauge used to set your chamber headspace, is very beneficial.
This makes for accurate measurements.
 

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#31
I've had my Wilson case gauges for years, but didn't use them much outside of when I was shooting NRA Service Rifle, with LC brass. Learned the hard way to gauge *every* round used in a match - at least with that stuff. Especially with a gas gun.

More recently, I broke down and got a Wilson case micrometer. So the case gauges came in handy... although I am considering whether it'd be worth it to get one made from the actual reamer 🤔
 
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#32
MarshallDodge said:
My experience is that the case gauge doesn't always give you the whole picture. I much prefer a dial caliper.
Click to expand...
I agree. But they do have their uses.

I use them on fired cases to see where the brass is moving. Also I find them useful for my hunting calibers when I use tighter neck tensions. Seating bullets with .004” tension can slightly deform certain “fatter” cases above the base (6.5prc is a good example). When I seat a bullet, I use them to see if there’s any “bulging” above the base. A quick check is all it takes.

Besides that, they are usually quite different from the chambers in most of my rifles. Yet they have their place…but I don’t rely on them.
 
#34
Case gauges are also used with pistols.
Competition shooters and anyone using ammo for defense, drop cartridges in a 50 or 100 hole cartridge gauge block.
Check primers and that all cartridges freely drop in ....any stoppages will cost you the match...and for self defense the outcome could be worse.
 
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#35
Edsel said:
View attachment 8521182

Just this one, with the regular (headspace only) case gauges.

The block’s only for zeroing.

Has the advantage of speed in operation, seems less technique - dependent than calipers + comparators.
Click to expand...
I like this idea for those who don't have a surface plate and drop indicator setup.
Accurate methods and more choices to check out variations in cartridge sizing and shoulder set back is a welcome sight, to let the individual shooter decide the method or methods he chooses to use.
The more ya measure the more you learn.
Example: The best cases in the world (subject to discussion) the case heads are not perfectly square.
And another variation added to the shoulder set back measurement that has nothing to do with annealing. And why one might get a different measurement with the caliper if moved 90°, although small it's there...
Here is a random group, LC military was laughingly pretty good.
None were flat...
20241009_221853.jpg
notice the primers being machined flat, pushing out and flatening against a square boltface.
 

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#37
Edsel said:
That sounds like my "Trash In, Trash Out" scenario :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Yeah... that LC brass was definitely a matter of "you get what you pay for". Yes, it was cheap - and I definitely paid for the difference in time/effort/tools to make it 'right'.

I've got some LC M118LR brass that I started using, but decided it wasn't worth the effort of having to double size that $hit.
 
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#40
For rifles, I use the barrel with the tightest dimensions. Once I have my dies set the first time and locked down I don’t check them again.

For pistols I find the tightest barrel and use that to randomly check loaded rounds, usually a couple per hundred. Every time I refill primers I randomly grab a few and toss them in the barrel.
 
#41
My fired 223 cases still drop right into my Wilson case gauge before I resize them, so for that, case gauges offer little value.

I am in the middle of loading 308 for a semi auto, and have several large bags of brass (some deprimed and sized, some deprimed and cleaned), so for that, yes, I'm using a case gauge to sample some in the bag to see if it's sized or not.
 
#42
I use a lot of LC brass, these 1000 ready to load 308 LC brass cases have already fired, along with Lapua, hybrid, and other commercial cases. Just load em to the shortest headspaced bolt gun chamber and shoot them in all 8 rifles auto or bolt. They are easily capable of half in 5 shot groups with no case prep, even out of AR 10 autos with good barrels.... but I use the Wilson case gauge along with a drop indicator on a granite surface plate so I know exactly where the case shoulders are averaging out. Or letting you know its time to anneal, with more inconsistent spring back in the shoulder.
I use the same neck bushing for Lapua and LC brass in the Wilson FL bushing die...not so with Winchester.
 

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#43
kentuckyMarksman said:
My fired 223 cases still drop right into my Wilson case gauge before I resize them, so for that, case gauges offer little value.
Click to expand...

The issue I had with a batch of LC 5.56 brass wasn't the headspace, but the rims.

I'd checked the headspace, using a regular comparator, adjusted the sizing die accordingly, but every once in a while, had one that wouldn't chamber. Measured everything I could think of at the time... nothing. Finally, I tried dropping the offending cases in the gauge. The rims stuck up well proud of the gauge face - despite having 'perfect' headspace. What the...?

Turned out that a few, out of that bag of 1k, had a burr on the rim. Dunno exactly what caused it (I have guesses), but it was enough to make the round hang up going into the case gauge - or the chamber.

Commercial brass, fired in a known good chamber, would be an entirely different matter.
 
#44
memilanuk said:
The issue I had with a batch of LC 5.56 brass wasn't the headspace, but the rims.

I'd checked the headspace, using a regular comparator, adjusted the sizing die accordingly, but every once in a while, had one that wouldn't chamber. Measured everything I could think of at the time... nothing. Finally, I tried dropping the offending cases in the gauge. The rims stuck up well proud of the gauge face - despite having 'perfect' headspace. What the...?

Turned out that a few, out of that bag of 1k, had a burr on the rim. Dunno exactly what caused it (I have guesses), but it was enough to make the round hang up going into the case gauge - or the chamber.

Commercial brass, fired in a known good chamber, would be an entirely different matter.
Click to expand...
Burrs on the rim are common, even slightly bent rims especially from autoloaders.

A quick buffing on a Scotch-Brite silicon carbide deburring wheel does the trick in one or two seconds.
This is one of the reloaders best tools.
Polish and deburring in a fast fashion. Great for spin polish or deburr. Get yourself one you'll be glad ya did, been using them in reloading over 25 yrs.
 

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#46
Keep this in mind, Industry standards :

A digital/ dial caliper is not a precision instrument. It's a plus or minus .001" at best for precision measuring, as it can be flexed that much easily.
It's called a reference tool, only.
If one has a large tolerance it can be used to spot check parts, but never used initially to pass a part to begin production.
The inspection department didn't have one. It's all electronic, granite surface plate CMM in a controlled atmosphere, high tech digital measuring machines, capable of finding fault with parts made on the worlds best CNC machines.
Those machines are inspected for accuracy before being put into production.

Calipers are not used in inspection departments to determine if a part is in or out of print, you would be fired for that.
"It was close, but my caliper said it was in."
Only calibrated micrometers are used with an inspection department sticker, by a machinist no other measuring tool are allowed in the shop, for precision measuring, only reference, akin to a tape measure, not considered precision.
Here is an inspection department sticker still on my caliper.
 

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#47
FWIW, if your firearm uses a "SAAMI spec chamber", you want a gauge that can display multiple areas that are critical when a casing has been resized after firing or when converting a casing. These areas are the case web, case body circumference, shoulder bump, trim length and bullet ogive contact. If any single or combination of those is off, it will affect your feeding, especially in self-loading platforms. I use the Sheridan slotted gauges for all of my AR rifle calibers as it can show ALL of those at the same time. I can check the cases after sizing and before loading to make any adjustments of dies, trim length and initial bullet seating. For AR platforms, getting these dimensions right for the 1st firing ensures reliable feeding, chambering and firing. The enclosed body gauges didn't tell me if my shoulder bump, case trim length, case web or bullet seating depth were off when a casing wouldn't just drop in or drop out, the Sheridan slotted gauge will expose which is at fault. CAVEAT: Once you have your dies adjusted for the casing itself, bullet seating is when most people will deviate according to their desired amount of jump if it exceeds the COAL for the SAAMI spec or the magazines they use.

YMMV
 

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