Short 308 Diminishing returns

snowplow · Oct 11, 2024

Hey guys, first post and not a very technical question.

I'm a brush hunter and am wanting to setup a light and handy .308 with a 16" barrel for my can. I'll run a lightweight 2-7. This would be 300y max but more like inside 100 realistically.

Major players l've found so far are Tikka t3x, Howa 1500 super lite short, and Ruger American Gen 2. Or starting a build with the Howa barrelled action.

Nice guns are always nicer of course, but would you guys spend more than 600 for a Gen 2 Ruger American?

Terry Cross · Oct 11, 2024

snowplow said:
Hey guys, first post and not a very technical question.

I'm a brush hunter and am wanting to setup a light and handy .308 with a 16" barrel for my can. I'll run a lightweight 2-7. This would be 300y max but more like inside 100 realistically.

Major players l've found so far are Tikka t3x, Howa 1500 super lite short, and Ruger American Gen 2. Or starting a build with the Howa barrelled action.

Nice guns are always nicer of course, but would you guys spend more than 600 for a Gen 2 Ruger American?

None of your 3 choices are bad for what you envision.
Honestly, I would choose the one whose stock fits you/feels the best.
If a tie, I would go for the one you think looks the best. Nothing wrong with getting what you think looks nice as long as it is functionally good to go.

If all other things are equal, I would encourage you to seriously consider the Tikka. Out of the 3 choices you list, I think it is the most "shootable" and it does offer the biggest choice of aftermarket upgrades if you decide to upgrade anything on it later.

Kwtaylor · Oct 11, 2024

I built a light short 308 with a left hand Ruger gunsight scout rifle. The stock is laminated so I replaced it with a MPI stock. Saved about 18 ounces this way. It is drilled for standard mounts if you don’t like the scout configuration.

tekmann2377 · Oct 11, 2024

I recently picked up a T3x Ranch Rifle in 308 with a 16" threaded barrel. This would be my first choice from an accuracy and ability to upgrade standpoint. It is light and handy even with a suppressor.

Even though it is a basic wood stock rifle, the barrel is a reasonable profile, the trigger is quite good, and I don't really have any reason to change anything and plan to use it "as-is."

I also have a Ruger Gunsite Scout in 450 BM, which is also a nice and handy short rifle, but it isn't as svelte or smooth as the Tikka.

TheJeanyus · Oct 11, 2024

I have a Ruger Gunsite Scout for this purpose too. Handy little thing, and while not nearly as good of a shooter as my Tikka or customs it is certainly “good enough” for short-medium range deer hunting.

Harman117 · Oct 11, 2024

Check out the Tikka Drover model specifically! Iron sights, CTR 10 round Magazine, threaded barrel (not sure of pattern). Looks like a sweet model

Simia Dei · Oct 11, 2024

Harman117 said:
Check out the Tikka Drover model specifically! Iron sights, CTR 10 round Magazine, threaded barrel (not sure of pattern). Looks like a sweet model

View attachment 8522127

I used to own a version of this in 9.3x62. They are an unreal setup.

To add on, is there a significant performance loss for 308 going down to 14” from 16”? I have a cadex and am thinking of getting the barrel shortened to be flush with the handguard.

Kwtaylor · Oct 11, 2024

Simia Dei said:
I used to own a version of this in 9.3x62. They are an unreal setup.

To add on, is there a significant performance loss for 308 going down to 14” from 16”? I have a cadex and am thinking of getting the barrel shortened to be flush with the handguard.

In the US, the significant performance issue is it will become a “short rifle”. They don’t like them.

TheBigCountry · Oct 11, 2024

Terry Cross said:
None of your 3 choices are bad for what you envision.
Honestly, I would choose the one whose stock fits you/feels the best.
If a tie, I would go for the one you think looks the best. Nothing wrong with getting what you think looks nice as long as it is functionally good to go.

If all other things are equal, I would encourage you to seriously consider the Tikka. Out of the 3 choices you list, I think it is the most "shootable" and it does offer the biggest choice of aftermarket upgrades if you decide to upgrade anything on it later.

+1 on Tikka

Listen to Terry

LeftyJason · Oct 11, 2024

FYI here is the dimensions of a T3x lite barrel. Should be same profile as a hunter.

Legend: .dia {distance from muzzle} (barrel length)

.616 {0} (24.33)
.620 {1.358} (23)
.630 {2.57} (21.75)
.640 {3.81} (20.5)
.650 {5.05} (19.25)
.660 {6.27} (18.06)
Recommended od for 9/16 shoulder .662 {6.625} (17.7)
0.673 {8.08} (16.25)Beyond this point has to be registered as an SBR
At front of tupperware 0.711 {13.33} (11)
Recommended od for 5/8 0.725 {15} (9.33)

IOW at 16" a t3x lite barrel is 0.673" which is right above the recommended od for a 9/16 thread shoulder.

Harman117 said:
Check out the Tikka Drover model specifically! Iron sights, CTR 10 round Magazine, threaded barrel (not sure of pattern). Looks like a sweet model

View attachment 8522127

Why is this the first I've heard of that? It isn't even on the choose.Tikka.Fi site. I wouldn't use it anyway but it is good to know of to help others.

Harman117 · Oct 11, 2024

LeftyJason said:
Why is this the first I've heard of that? It isn't even on the choose.Tikka.Fi site. I wouldn't use it anyway but it is good to know of to help others.

Yeah I happened to find it just by scrolling Eurooptic. Couldn't figure out the thread size, but if I were in the market for a hunting rifle... I'd do something like that.

LeftyJason · Oct 11, 2024

Harman117 said:
Yeah I happened to find it just by scrolling Eurooptic. Couldn't figure out the thread size, but if I were in the market for a hunting rifle... I'd do something like that.

@Euro.Connor any info on what the thread is on the Tikka Drover?

snowplow · Oct 11, 2024

I looked at the drover quickly today actually. Thanks for all the good tips. I'll give it another look. Does anybody know if those iron sites come off? I would imagine they do, and I would imagine they would be in the way of my low small scope.

I actually have a gen 1 Ruger American predator in 308. Those ones came with a 18-in threaded barrel. I threw a break on it for my wife and my daughter but I ended up pretty much falling in love with it for brush hunting with a lighted 2-7. I just keep thinking how much I like it, but also how we'd love to have a nicer version for no particular reason. My daughter has pretty much taken it over so I figured I'd look for something that was a little bit of an upgrade.

If I could have my cake and eat it too, I would find a stainless 16-in barrel setup with hopefully a little bit better stock and at least as light.

I know these are cheap rifles and may not be worth upgrading in a sense, but I have not found anything that comes close to being more of a perfect rifle for what I'm doing. If I could find a good quality one, I would probably spring for a carbon fiber stock. I have it rigged up with a AR style adjustable sling on the side of the rifle so I can just stock with it slung right over my chest. Since it's not long and it's very light it's just perfect. Now that I want to add the suppressor and they offer it in a 16-in versus a 18-in barrel, I'm all over it.

snowplow · Oct 12, 2024

I actually have a Tikka t3x ultralight that I recently inherited from my dad. It is a beautiful action. So I am a little bit familiar with them although it is new to me. And today I put my hands on a HowWa 1500 for the first time. I will say the action was kind of strange to me. I don't know how to describe it. If I closed my eyes and just use the bolt, it felt nicer than my Ruger American. It felt pretty. Darn good. But at the same time it looked and felt cheap to me. The safety felt so cheesy and cheap. I felt like my American gen 1 looks and feels higher quality. The only real exception being the zippery action. I really wanted to like it but I don't know if I can.

snowplow · Oct 12, 2024

WOW THANK YOU GUYS!

Ruger® Scout Rifle Bolt-Action Rifle Model 6829

ruger.com

I almost bought a gunsight scout when I bought my American but in the end couldn't do it because I was hearing the accuracy wasn't very good and it was so darn heavy. I completely wrote it off and didn't look back into it just now. But I am a total m77 Fanboy. I absolutely love that Mauser action. Tikka eat your heart out.

Now it looks like they have what seems to be my perfect rifle. 16-In barrel, detachable mags, stainless, mauser action, and a composite stock at about 6 lb!

So please tell me guys, what kind of accurate are you getting out of this? My little American is just shoots aces. I'm so impressed with it. Years ago when I was looking at it, it seemed like the Americans were shooting a lot better than the scouts. How's the accuracy?

Simia Dei · Oct 12, 2024

Kwtaylor said:
In the US, the significant performance issue is it will become a “short rifle”. They don’t like them.

We have “overall length” laws here

TheJeanyus · Oct 12, 2024

snowplow said:
So please tell me guys, what kind of accurate are you getting out of this? My little American is just shoots aces. I'm so impressed with it. Years ago when I was looking at it, it seemed like the Americans were shooting a lot better than the scouts. How's the accuracy?

Mine is an 18”. I have a NF 2.5-10 on it. Shoots around 1 MOA with Fed GMM 168s and around 1.25-1.5 with Barnes Vortx 130s and 150s which are what I hunt with.

snowplow · Oct 14, 2024

Great thank you. This got me thinking about the often compared American Ranch/Predator vs Gunsite Scout. It's a very confusing rabbit hole.

I most often I read that the Ruger American is a much better design and more accurate. However, I'm not really sure if that's true. I know the control round feed action is much better on the scout. I know Ruger barrels are generally very good as far as I know and I can't imagine them being too different quality wise. I especially wouldn't expect the $600 gun to have a better barrel. Obviously the wood stock is better on the scout which certainly wouldn't make the accuracy worse I wouldn't imagine. And it's heavier too. Lots of things may make the accuracy better, but definitely don't make the accuracy worse.

What I'm thinking these people possibly mean is that a scout rifle with the scout scope isn't as accurate, at least to them as a conventional rifle and scope setup. I don't care either way because I don't plan on running a scout scope.

For an apples to apples comparison, if I had the composite stock scout, a conventional scope, and the front rail removed, would there be any reason the scout would be less accurate than the American?

Harman117 · Oct 14, 2024

snowplow said:
Great thank you. This got me thinking about the often compared American Ranch/Predator vs Gunsite Scout. It's a very confusing rabbit hole.

I most often I read that the Ruger American is a much better design and more accurate. However, I'm not really sure if that's true. I know the control round feed action is much better on the scout. I know Ruger barrels are generally very good as far as I know and I can't imagine them being too different quality wise. I especially wouldn't expect the $600 gun to have a better barrel. Obviously the wood stock is better on the scout which certainly wouldn't make the accuracy worse I wouldn't imagine. And it's heavier too. Lots of things may make the accuracy better, but definitely don't make the accuracy worse.

What I'm thinking these people possibly mean is that a scout rifle with the scout scope isn't as accurate, at least to them as a conventional rifle and scope setup. I don't care either way because I don't plan on running a scout scope.

For an apples to apples comparison, if I had the composite stock scout, a conventional scope, and the front rail removed, would there be any reason the scout would be less accurate than the American?

No direct experience with it, but if it were me I'd get the laminate wood stock and get it bedded. That and a better trigger is usually the go to methods for squeezing the most out of a mass produced rifle.

wvfarrier · Oct 14, 2024

I have a blue printed Rem 700 Tac in 308 that has been fantastic, threaded 16" barrel. I have hunted out to 500 with it and it has never let me down.

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