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338 ARC
- Thread starter Parham4020
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Those supersonic BC's you're quoting don't apply in subsonic flight. Velocity has some to do with the BC of a bullet. With a 50yd zero my 300BO bolt gun shooting 190gr 30 cal bullet subsonic has very similar drop as my RimX shooting Lapua Center X. So the comparison you're making is off
How much expansion would you get on impact at say 750 fps in something like a big pile ballistic gel?
The higher BC bullet will stay at lest maximum expansion velocity for a longer extended range, and still can expand several hundred yds beyond a really low BC bullet... but it's a moot point for hunting because most expanding bullets at say minimum of 900 fps are close range bullet design anyway and a long range match bullet will not expand at the full 1050 fps...let alone 900fps much further down range, but a bit more helpful on targets.
I shoot alot of subs in many calibers, but never intended to hunt with any of them in the subsonic mode, eventhough I shoot bullets for subsonic hunting like Maker, Sub X, and Leigh Defense. Just to check them out, and their claims.
I find them disappointing at 1050 fps and are not for me, for anything other than, testing, target, and plinking.
Usually use the long match bullets mostly for that, cause I ain't hunting.
And I run the .510 sub bullets way above 1050 fps to 2450 fps for interesting results on small rabbit sized game...so ya don't have to stomp their heads in the ground to finish them off...
High velocity just kills much better, and where I go quiter isn't important.
But do your own thing, some will be just plinkers, and target shooters, others will be hunting with their subs, or supers.
I'll stick with .458 SOCOM for now. See where this goes after a year.
I'd like to know if they considered going with the Spectre. They already make 6.8/224 so it should be easy enough. It will be interesting to see how this one does.
Not sure. I haven’t seen testing below MV tests. But they claim it expands down to 700 fps. I’d be interested in testing at a few different velocities to measure expansion and penetration.
Well boys, Kevin hates it so you may as well pack it up and go home.
And this is why some folks will let the masses test it before jumping in
Thanks for sharing
I don’t know if .338 ARC will work. I want it to work. Guess we will see.
"I didn't invent this and Hornady wont mass produce ammo for my platform. IT SUCKS!"
-Angry Bald Man that makes overpriced grifter gooner gear
This type of response from him means he feels threatened.
This video makes me want to buy the boombox, pull the 8.6 barrel, and put a 375 Raptor barrel in it. Like some sort of self-defeating, passive aggressive FU.
The match bullet will have a higher BC than a round nose Maker, true, but it's not the BC you think it is. And it has no expansion capability. I can verify the Maker bullets expand very well and there are plenty of examples from other people shooting them demonstrating that they expand well. I really don't think that's debatable.
I was thinking maybe I want a 338ARC now that I know Kevin doesn't like it. Kevin being such a cunt and all
This was my immediate thought when I watched that video last night
What a fuckin douche canoe lolYes, I know....the match bullet will be much lower because the BC changes with velocity, but still have a small advantage, even at subsonic speed, and increases with range. And sub hunting is a close range endevor. But as one goes supersonic the advantage begins to really widen again, as I shoot alot of supers.
You say "And Makers expand very well"... not necessarily. I have tested them....They are very twist, velocity, and medium dependent. The petals can blow off before they reach the target, they open too slow, they open too fast and blow off the petals leaving a tiny fmj wound channel or don't open at all. Sometimes they seem to work.
I have shot a bunch of them.
Would I hunt anything with them? Absolutely not.
But I won't hunt with any subonic gun, when I have magnum rifles on hand and a 6 lb 308 AR 10 to take care of the close range work, fast handling with quick, high velocity follow up shots.
Would I build 338 ARC? Yeah probably, just to play with, and test...a fun gun. I do that all the time. And shoot lots of subs.
Would I hunt anything with it ....absolutely not.
But others will, and may be their primary goal of owning a 338 ARC.
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I wonder what kind of velocity’s you could get out of a 8-9 inch barrel with a 150-165 solid copper bullet similar to the 110 ttsx for the 300 blackout. Should be a solid heavy hitting pdw for 100-300 yards. 338 arc doesn’t interest me much for hunting tho due to the 6 arc and 300 prc having those spots taken.
I think them marketing supersonic capability is a mistake. It's a really anemic case capacity to try to expand bullets made for supersonic impacts.
They're not made for barrier blind expansion, lol. WTF are you trying to shoot through?
These were shot into meat.
I find that in such a limited case capacity, copper bullets are taking up too much space, especially if so slow they won't open. The ttsx is great, but I like the 110 V-Max better.
So, the angry bald guy does have some valid points, with twist rates, barrel extensions, magazines, and limited rd mags.
But that does not deter many, as 5 rds or 10 rds in the mag, may be enough....if one can modify the mag, feed ramps, enough to get it to feed reliably.
Hornady has announced the 338 ARC but nothing is available at this time brass, dies, barrels, etc ...but coming soon.
A year later maybe, it will have general availability....support? Takes along time with Hornady.
Its not a super sonic cartridge, too small capacity, he is correct.
I believe it could be a good subsonic cartridge depending on the barrel makers, twist, feed ramps, and mags.
It's true faster twist opens bullets faster, that depends on bullet design, and how extreme the twist, if it's a positive or negative For hunters a 6.5 twist may be better for bullets designed to open up on game.
But the 8 twist is fine for us plinkers and target shooters.
I changed the 3 twist barrel for a 6.5 twist on my own 8.6 Blackout, as the 3 twist was too extreme and dangerous IMO, as bullets blow up inside the muzzle device as soon as they leave the confines of the barrel. I have photos of the destruction.
A 5 twist is available in blank form but it wasn't worth the trouble of machining to see if this was a better option for hunters with sub bullets...since I'm not into that endeavor, just curious.
But that does not deter many, as 5 rds or 10 rds in the mag, may be enough....if one can modify the mag, feed ramps, enough to get it to feed reliably.
Hornady has announced the 338 ARC but nothing is available at this time brass, dies, barrels, etc ...but coming soon.
A year later maybe, it will have general availability....support? Takes along time with Hornady.
Its not a super sonic cartridge, too small capacity, he is correct.
I believe it could be a good subsonic cartridge depending on the barrel makers, twist, feed ramps, and mags.
It's true faster twist opens bullets faster, that depends on bullet design, and how extreme the twist, if it's a positive or negative For hunters a 6.5 twist may be better for bullets designed to open up on game.
But the 8 twist is fine for us plinkers and target shooters.
I changed the 3 twist barrel for a 6.5 twist on my own 8.6 Blackout, as the 3 twist was too extreme and dangerous IMO, as bullets blow up inside the muzzle device as soon as they leave the confines of the barrel. I have photos of the destruction.
A 5 twist is available in blank form but it wasn't worth the trouble of machining to see if this was a better option for hunters with sub bullets...since I'm not into that endeavor, just curious.
Want those normal copper hunting bullets to open up, ya need enough case capacity. Here the 160 Barnes in 8.6 Blackout, has enough case capacity to do that...6.5 twist barrel, only ...2800 fps. Can't go as fast in a 3 twist I had both twist rates at the same time to test, pressure spikes fast and the bullet doesn't seem to accelerate fast enough out of case as the powder burns, and powder energy is consumed in the form of heat and rotational force instead of forward velocity, in the 3 twist...this was also one of the first Faxon rough rifled barrels in 3 twist....not a fan of 3 twist.
Also the 300 Hamr will run the 110 grs at 2700 to 2790 fps, but not a sub round, in 16" to 18" barrels.
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I think that’s exactly what it will be.
A pod caster on YouTube shared to wait on a 338 Spectre video I saw last week.
Hornady is stating that the new .338 ARC is capable of anything someone would use a 44 Magnum for.
I think that will make it more mainstream than it otherwise would be.
Apparently plexiglass in front of a wet cardboard box, with maybe some shaving cream or glue in there lol
338 ARC vs 338 Spectre
Almost identical.
I made a 338 ARC case with a home built die not having the exact dimensions, but the 338 ARC COAL at 1.293" I trimmed it to 1.283" for a barley fit to the ogive of the 300 gr Berger.
The shoulder of the case could be larger or the neck longer, but I just used a cut down 6.5 Grendel.
The water capacity other mockup 338 ARC was 29.0 gr at .010 short on length.
Q load says the water capacity of the 338 Spectre is 28.80 grains.with a case length of 1.252"
So one can plug in 338 ARC in the 338 Spectre cartridge data and get your load data...that simple.
But it only has a MAP of 37,500 psi where the 338 ARC is 52,000 psi Max.
Plug and play...easy.
Almost identical.
I made a 338 ARC case with a home built die not having the exact dimensions, but the 338 ARC COAL at 1.293" I trimmed it to 1.283" for a barley fit to the ogive of the 300 gr Berger.
The shoulder of the case could be larger or the neck longer, but I just used a cut down 6.5 Grendel.
The water capacity other mockup 338 ARC was 29.0 gr at .010 short on length.
Q load says the water capacity of the 338 Spectre is 28.80 grains.with a case length of 1.252"
So one can plug in 338 ARC in the 338 Spectre cartridge data and get your load data...that simple.
But it only has a MAP of 37,500 psi where the 338 ARC is 52,000 psi Max.
Plug and play...easy.
Didn't even watch, but now I kinda want a 338 ARC.
I was bored so I got on the wait list for an upper. Should be about 4 week before they start shipping. Let's see if I follow through!
Not surprised by Brittingham's position, pretty much the same shit he's done for years. There are some pretty epic stories out there on his interactions in the industry and community, and reasons why he's been banned from other forums.
It was a 2 liter bottle of water...lol.
The perfect mushrooms shown look like ballistics gel not meat. If it was meat they failed to penetrate through the animal which I consider inadequate and a failure.
They have a lot of S/D at 350 grs and mine really penetrate. But also were inconsistent, no perfect mushrooms, but highly varied pieces of bullet, bent bullet, blown off petals...
But for me it's just a test and I don't care how they perform, ...just report how did they perform....cause I ain't gonna use them to kill game animals.
I just want to know if they work as advertised, the answer is sometimes, part of the way through, and a few not at all.
An animal is made of hair, hide, muscle, blood and bone. Not ballistics gel...and even there the petals break off, bullets curve off path.
I did find them accurate in the 6.5 twist.
And so it is... I do not care if they are used or not, and experiences differ.
They had trouble with the 3 twist 1000 fps a new lot says 1050 max fps... cause the petals blow off before reaching the target.
Like my muzzle brake and magneto speed bayonet.
Very dangerous, csuse ya don't know which way all the shrapnel is going, bullet fragments and muzzle brake fragments.
The 338 ARC will be better here with the 8 twist...but you'll have to get the correct bullets for it. As they may not open up with Maker 3 twist bullets, cause they make them for the 338 Spectre with 6.5 twist would be a better bet for performance, in your 338 ARC.
Yep, I tested blowing up bullets on purpose with a recommended load in the 3 twist.
This time no muzzle device or chronograph...barrel inside the box the bullet blows up as soon as it leaves the confines of the barrel...sending pieces of bullet to all sides of the box, back, top, bottom, & sides.
When no one tells the truth, or muddies up the facts, you have to find out for yourself.
An inquiring mind wants to know.
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I already have load data written down...I was bored so I got on the wait list for an upper. Should be about 4 week before they start shipping. Let's see if I follow through!
It's a tiny case with big bullets, pressures jump really fast like 2 tenths extra powder can get into the danger zone.
Subs are fairly high pressure, so powder burns should be good.
Powders are limited because of the small capacity. Similar to 300 Blackout.
Supers are nonexistent basicly and still mushroom up with most bullets.
The Barnes 160 gr might reach 1920 fps at max pressure in a 12" barrel for example.
The Spectre is 1850 fps in 16" for factory ammo, but it runs at lower pressure, so a 12 " ARC should reach that with the 52,000 psi.
Maker has a 160 gr 338 expanding for supers for the 6.5 twist 338 Spectre, that supposed to work down to 900 fps. But you will have to confirm that before using.
A 200 gr Nosler is around 1600 fps no help there for hunting on a 12".
I did a fair amount of research for what information is available.
I believe thr 338 ARC to be a pretty good subsonic gun, and not much use as a super sonic gun, unless special light bullets are made that will expand at lower velocity, but they won't be cheap plinking like the 300 blackout with 147 fmj.
Plus issues to overcome with mags might exist.
Intriguing, yeah kinda...
For me it would be another fun gun torally worthless for anything but fun.
Good enough reason to own one...
It was meat. I said it was meat. A bone in pork shoulder, taped up with black gorilla tape with three layers of denim taped to the front. Backed by water jugs and finally plywood to stop the bullets. I've tested a lot of bullets this way.
190gr SUBXs, 200gr Makers, RMR 9mm Nukes, 9mm Gold Dot HP's. All going between 1000fps and 1060fps.
120gr 6.5mm Speer GDHP, Hornady 55gr SP, 2 x 62gr Speer GDHP, 200gr Maker, Barnes 130gr TTSX, Barnes 110gr TAC TX, 124gr GDHP, 2x147gr GDHP, 124gr RMR Nuke, 115gr modified Nuke.
This medium shows some pretty consistent results with multiple bullets. And it show where some bullets fail. Like the Speer 147gr Gold Dots. Fail to expand well until they're over 1050fps. The Barnes 130gr TTSX is borderline at 2800fps. The TAC TX is phenomenal at 2450fps. The 200gr Maker has a bent petal from penetrating through the pork shoulder, three water jugs and bouncing off the wood backer.
You couldn't be more wrong.
That's exactly what I was think when I first heard about this. It makes me want a subsonic / suppressed only setup so bad to use around the farm to not disturb the neighbours.
Maybe my old yhm resonator will have a big enough bore diameter. I can measure it or the rugged obsidian 45 possibly
That's a prety big can right? Most 338 cans are substantially bigger and heavier than a lot of 30 cal cans.
probably so if db reduction and precision are the two primary selection criteria ...
tbac makes a hell of a can ... i love my dominus sr
somehow I ended up with a YHM resonator and I think the bore diameter on it will be big enough to shoot 338 projectiles through
i never use that can anymore anyway so I was just excited about something to use it on again or it would be a good excuse to buy a tbac
Ya. 10.5" x 1.7 or 8". The weight actually isn't too bad. But that's the quietest can I think you can get right now for this cartridge. If you're goal is to just suppress it with something not that quiet, then it's not much of a discussion. Screw something with a large enough bore size on it go
Doesn't take a lot of discussion to do that. It's basically a pistol cartridge. 9gr of Lil'Gun. 300BO charge weights in ARs are the same. 9.8gr of H110 is what it takes to cycle 200gr bullets in my 7" BO.
I'm curious what it'll do with supers in a 12.5".....I'll let someone else do the testing before I start ordering parts. Subs don't interest me that much.
Well fuck... I hate Kevin more than I hate the .338 ARC, so... Goddamnit... I guess now I have to build one now that the raging egomaniac alcholic narc hates it...
Or, someone must have showed him my "Candy Mongoose 8.6 Rainbow Warrior" Q-mockery post, and so he didn't want to get accused of being a bigger fag than he already is, so now he's against it.
Yeah, my personal interactions with him over the years is why I hate him so much... Same with Cortina and Alex Wheeler. All egomaniac d-bags. They all have that "I have trophies or .gov contracts, and you don't, so who are you to question what I say, and not worship at my feet like all the other gun simps..." type of attitudes. Pathetic for grown men to act like this.
Exactly my thought. Is it cute and useless? YES! Will I use it to fuck up any raccoon I see at the house while the neighbors are blissfully unaware? Also YES! Plan on running a Hybrid 46 with a 9mm front cap for the can.
Staged to capture the bullet like I said, you did not recover them from live animals... cause the penetration performance would be dismal if ya did.
Very few are actually recovered from live animals, but you had a fair amount, mentioning meat, falsely leading one to believe the bullets were recovered from big game animals and they all worked perfectly. Unbelievable....so you got called on it. You mislead. It could be hamburger, pork ribs, or a grasshopper the bullet penetrated "meat" under controlled conditions therefore it must be a perfect bullet.
As I mentioned they were pretty hard to recover because of penetration (especially the 350 grain) even in a staged event, where impact velocity, and medium are controlled to get the best outcome for bullet performance.
That doesn't tell ya much other than it has the potential to work. Then when one fails the potential to fail.
How will it hold up going through elk or bear hide and bone?
Velocity to high just blow off the petals, before it reaches the target or at impact?
And sometimes they worked, sometimes they did not. Just the facts.
Check with Maker the manufacturer, who states the velocity range and sometimes the cartridge and twist rate the bullets are to be used at...for example not recommended to use 338 Spectre bullets in 8.6 Blackout, they both .338" in dia but the 3 twist takes a different bullet than the 6.5 twist of the Spectre. They work in a very narrow velocity range with specific twist rstes.
There have been a fair amount of complaints to the manufacturer and it appears they try to listen to improve their bullet, or place further velocity restrictions, or in one case add 50 fps to the top velocity with a 3 twist.
The bullets are what they are.
So you're changing your goal post? First it was gel. Now it's because it wasn't a live animal? From the guy shooting water jugs... You can't even take a legible photo.
You won't have good data on bullets if you're only standard is live animals. Because you won't recover the majority of them. And in reality when you are talking about shooting people and animals, weird shit happens. People and animals live through some horrific things. Bones cause bullets to ricochet. We shot a guy with AH64's in the mountains of Afghanistan. 20-30rd burst. I watched the video. He lived, but it turned him into a vegetable. Weird shit happens. To isolate the weird shit, this type of testing really is the better way. And the only viable way. I agree about ballistic gel. It is like a comparator. It gives you a better idea about expansion and penetration compared to other bullets than it does how that bullet will actually perform in live tissue. So capturing after dead tissue is the only practical way of testing to provide empirical data.
You have done neither.
Sometimes you have to fully aerate the soil before you bury the vegetables...
I didn't imply anything. I said meat. You said I lied and shot gel. I clarified and then you tried to discount it because it wasn't live tissue. Yes. You did move goal posts. When confronted with facts and data you squirm and vacillate.
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