How to think about categories of "accurate" rifles?

elrguyNV · Oct 23, 2024

<newbie, apologies in advance for any stupidity>

Wondering how folks think about what I am beginning to see as four "categories" of elr bolt action rifles. For context, I am looking to get into long range shooting after a bit of a drift off into mostly pistol related sports and activities. I am trying to judge the value tradeoff and decide what to buy. Would appreciate thoughts on how to think about this if accuracy vs. price is my only focus. I am willing to spend $3-5k or so if I am really getting better accuracy than say an RPR, don't care (much) about weight, appearance, custom colors, etc. Expecting to shoot in the 1,000 yard range mostly.

1) Your basic bolt action like the Rem 700 and clones. Sub $1,000 off the shelf. Sub 2 MOA maybe out of the box? I have one of these already.

2) Factory rifles designed for elr shooting, but "low end." RPR. Christensen MPR. etc. Right around the $2,000 mark +- $500. Sub 1 MOA out of the box?

3) Factory rifles, but high end. Christensen TFM. Tikka. AI. Barrett, etc. Typically >$5,000. Maybe sub 1/2 MOA? The TFM is "guaranteed" < 1/2 MOA.

4) Hand made custom rifles from one of say a dozen top class high end builders. Probably would buy one used here, looks like $3,500 - $10,000 is the range.

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ · Oct 23, 2024

1&2 combine

3&4 combine

TacOps>The rest

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 23, 2024

You use a POS Christensen as a primary example of an ELR rifle (LOL) at the $2K mark, but then lump Tikka’s in the $5K mark when they don’t even have a rifle that costs more than $2K along with AI who now doesn’t have a rifle that costs under $6500.

I’ve got no idea what you’re trying to do here but the very basis of whatever this thought is supposed to be is flawed right from the start.

If you want a long range rifle then determine what you can comfortably spend and then look at your options in that price range. Playing mental gymnastics over nonsense isn’t going to help your decision making.

Part Timer · Oct 23, 2024

elrguyNV said:
<newbie, apologies in advance for any stupidity>

Wondering how folks think about what I am beginning to see as four "categories" of elr bolt action rifles. For context, I am looking to get into long range shooting after a bit of a drift off into mostly pistol related sports and activities. I am trying to judge the value tradeoff and decide what to buy. Would appreciate thoughts on how to think about this if accuracy vs. price is my only focus. I am willing to spend $3-5k or so if I am really getting better accuracy than say an RPR, don't care (much) about weight, appearance, custom colors, etc. Expecting to shoot in the 1,000 yard range mostly.

1) Your basic bolt action like the Rem 700 and clones. Sub $1,000 off the shelf. Sub 2 MOA maybe out of the box? I have one of these already.

2) Factory rifles designed for elr shooting, but "low end." RPR. Christensen MPR. etc. Right around the $2,000 mark +- $500. Sub 1 MOA out of the box?

3) Factory rifles, but high end. Christensen TFM. Tikka. AI. Barrett, etc. Typically >$5,000. Maybe sub 1/2 MOA? The TFM is "guaranteed" < 1/2 MOA.

4) Hand made custom rifles from one of say a dozen top class high end builders. Probably would buy one used here, looks like $3,500 - $10,000 is the range.

Posts like these show up fairly regularly here, so it may not be a bad idea to do a bit more browsing to see some in-depth answers from others with a ton of experience and insight to give. Having said that, there are some questions that you should get answers to before anything happens:

- What is your definition of ELR? This can vary from shooter to shooter, but is typically considered 1500m and beyond.
- As noted in the above post, what is your budget? This is key, and probably the most important question, due to the varying price ranges for rifles and such. This should also take into account optics and accessories.

Those two questions are intertwined and will affect (effect? I dunno) each other. For instance, if you wanted to get into true ELR, get your pocket book out and start digging. If you're under the impression that ELR is just longer range shooting, like out to 1000m at the range kind of thing, you won't need anything special and can probably make it work with something off the rack.

Once you figure those two things out, you'll have a good starting point to make an educated decision.

TL;DR - How much money do you have to throw at this and how far do you want to shoot?

diggler1833 · Oct 23, 2024

elrguyNV said:
<newbie, apologies in advance for any stupidity>

Wondering how folks think about what I am beginning to see as four "categories" of elr bolt action rifles. For context, I am looking to get into long range shooting after a bit of a drift off into mostly pistol related sports and activities. I am trying to judge the value tradeoff and decide what to buy. Would appreciate thoughts on how to think about this if accuracy vs. price is my only focus. I am willing to spend $3-5k or so if I am really getting better accuracy than say an RPR, don't care (much) about weight, appearance, custom colors, etc. Expecting to shoot in the 1,000 yard range mostly.

1) Your basic bolt action like the Rem 700 and clones. Sub $1,000 off the shelf. Sub 2 MOA maybe out of the box? I have one of these already.

2) Factory rifles designed for elr shooting, but "low end." RPR. Christensen MPR. etc. Right around the $2,000 mark +- $500. Sub 1 MOA out of the box?

3) Factory rifles, but high end. Christensen TFM. Tikka. AI. Barrett, etc. Typically >$5,000. Maybe sub 1/2 MOA? The TFM is "guaranteed" < 1/2 MOA.

4) Hand made custom rifles from one of say a dozen top class high end builders. Probably would buy one used here, looks like $3,500 - $10,000 is the range.

Now that you've been flogged; $3-5K is going to be a pretty big step over what you'll get with an RPR. If that is really your budget, determine what distances you’ll shoot at most and that might help narrow down (probably not) the cartridge you'll want.

$5K will get you into a used Accuracy International AT or AT-X with potentially some left over. While I have an AT-X myself, I'm more of a fan of a custom build personally. However that 2014 and newer AI has the ability to swap barrels quickly should you flip-flop on cartridges like many new shooters do. You are more limited to things like case head diameter, but there are a LOT of options that'll get you out to 1,300-1,500 yards. Handloading will get most to a half-minute or better since you're concerned with accuracy, but the feeling of the rifle is way beyond something like an RPR.

Even something like a Seekins Havak Hit will do the same for less than the AI, along with interchangeable bolt faces (more aftermarket cartridge choices)...but I have no experience with them. Word seems to be that they're decent though.

There is a law of diminishing returns here, like with most hobbies. But I'll promise you that going from a factory mediocre example for $2K to a $5K custom is going to leave you wanting until you scratch that itch.

Most of us will argue the merits of manufacturer A vs. B etc... in decisions like this. I'll say that most all at the upper end of your range will be a step above whatever you've played with before.

Best of luck.

The_Steward · Oct 23, 2024

I don't care how cheap a rifle is these days. If a bolt action rifle won't average one-inch 3-shot groups at 100yds (the standard crappy 1MOA guarantee) with good ammo, then I'd be trying to sell it. 1.5-2.0" groups are for ARs with FMJ ammo or muzzle loaders.

Turkeytider · Oct 24, 2024

The_Steward said:
I don't care how cheap a rifle is these days. If a bolt action rifle won't average one-inch 3-shot groups at 100yds (the standard crappy 1MOA guarantee) with good ammo, then I'd be trying to sell it. 1.5-2.0" groups are for ARs with FMJ ammo or muzzle loaders.

A reasonable standard IMHO. On the low end price wise, the Savage Axis lines will routinely shoot 1 MOA, often better.

Dead Eye Dick · Oct 24, 2024

Alex, I’ll take an original 1865 Henry in .44 Rimfire for the win.

Afterall, I saw one used to take one of the villains out on Lonesome Dove at 500 yards. If they show it tv it has to be true.

In a more serious tone, comparisons between rifles’ accuracy without laboratory controlled tests using multiple examples of each, basically boils down to two things, individual rifle variations and Shooters OPINIONS! The capability of the fellow doing the shooting is an accuracy concern as well. So how does this refer to the OP’s question, Categorizing rifles?

Point, not to step too hard on the OP’s toes, but these polls are essentially useless and pointless. And as we have seen from the debacle of PRS trying to categorize “production” rifles for the centerfire series, its pretty much impossible. With individual variations, and sometimes, a builders innovation, $$ does not always make the difference.

Maggot · Oct 27, 2024

Nothing wronf with factory rifles, I got 1/2 moa out of both my Remington's and a Bergara HMR for $1100 got me to a mile. That said, if youre a sharp shopper you can put together a much better rifle for only a bit more.

I built one for about 2K. PVA barrel, threaded and chambered about $750. Used Remington action for about $600. Used Bergara HMR stock $250. Timney Hit trigger, $225. Fat Bastard brake $125. Walked it out to 1350 and rang the steel on the 2nd shot, Havent tried a mile yet but I'm told that with the PVA barrel it should do that. Josh says the barrel should be good for at least 2500 rounds.

What will hurt is getting good glass on it. I went with an Athlon Cronus 4.5x29 used for a thousand, so I've got about 3K in the whole rig but I'm lusting big time for something better.

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How to think about categories of "accurate" rifles?

elrguyNV

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D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷

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redneckbmxer24

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Part Timer

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diggler1833

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The_Steward

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Turkeytider

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Dead Eye Dick

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Maggot

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