6.5 BR, short barrel, hunting rifle. Am I crazy?

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

Mission: Short action, competition "grade", ground-blind oriented, short barrelled, suppressed hunting rifle.

I own an Impact on an MCS TCS, with a Kahles 6-24 in 6BR. The thing shoots much better than I can, yadda yadda. I'm planning to form 1 the action for this project, if it comes to be.

Seeing how easy-mode the BR variants are, as well as how efficient the case is, I don't see a downside to necking up some Lapua brass and running a short barrelled 6.5 BR. I've read that some of the guys experimenting with this cartridge in 2008-9 were seeing 2800fps or more pushing 140s. Maybe even 2900 but that was really pushing it, even for BR guys... Also, this was from 26" barrels. Assuming 30fps per inch, cutting 14", I'm guessing a loss of 420fps from their numbers?

My question is, does anyone know or can anyone help me get a good idea what velocity to expect from a 12" 6.5BR, pushing 130 Berger VLDHs?

If I can't get 2600 fps from a 12-14" barrel, then I might re-think. Even at 2500 fps it's worth doing to me, but getting 2600 is the goal.

DarinC · Jan 5, 2023

I would say 2800-2900 in a 26” barrel was really pushing things considering what most of us get with 140’s in their creedmoors.

Huskydriver · Jan 5, 2023

That is stupid fast.....and I would say bs

I load a 105 with 31 gr of varget and that case is pretty full with a 6bra.

I have no idea how you would get close to the 41ish grains needed to push a 6.5 140 to 2800 like in a 6.5cm.

My 16" 6.5 only gets 2500ish fps same load fyi

ma smith · Jan 5, 2023

Kanwhitetails said:
I've read that some of the guys experimenting with this cartridge in 2008-9 were seeing 2800fps or more pushing 140s. Maybe even 2900 but that was really pushing it... but getting 2600 is the goal.

This is a huge LOL NO, you are lucky to get 2,600 with 140 from an short barreled 6.5 Creedmoor.

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

Right, right. I knew all this internally, but wanted to believe in the BR magic.

The re-reading of the information I found online (a message board, I should have known better) States 2750-2800 out of the 6.5BR and 140s, and was published in oh-eight. I'm still thinking BS, even if it was a special reamer... The post that mentioned 2900 fps was a guy talking about a 6.5x284 later on. I should have read more carefully. I mean, who comments on a 6.5 BR thread about a totally unrelated cartridge, am I right?

I'm getting 2960 from my 26 inch 6BR running 108s, and am starting to see pressure. I thought magic existed in the efficiency of the case I guess...

I refer to published statements like "The 30BR is even more efficient than the 6BR. It can drive 120gr bullets faster than other cartridges, such as the 6.5-08, which burn 30% more powder", and "6BR shooters may be amazed at the speeds with which the 30BR can push 112-125gr bullets. After all, a standard 6BR case is hard-pressed to drive a 107gr SMK much past 2950fps even with a 30″ tube. The 30BR’s larger bore diameter is what makes that possible" in my defense. I realize too, that this is about the 30BR, but information may have melded into the ideal in my head somewhat.

I was hoping that it could be done, even if pushing brass harder than normal that I'd removed from the competition rotation, and wasn't worried about saving. (E.T.A. - Which is pretty stupid, I know better...)

Hecouldgoalltheway · Jan 5, 2023

This seems like a ridiculous amount of effort to keep your buddies from making fun of you for shooting a creed. Just close your eyes and step off the creedmoor ledge, we are all down here already.

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

Alright. Then, does anyone know the lower velocity limit expansion threshold of the 130s?

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
This seems like a ridiculous amount of effort to keep your buddies from making fun of you for shooting a creed. Just close your eyes and step off the creedmoor ledge, we are all down here already.

I started with Creed. No shame in it as far as I'm concerned.

I figured I'd eventually be told to just go bigger. Which would be fine, if the muzzle blast wasn't a thing. The idea is short and quiet, with no flame from the can. I want to spit bullets, not burn holes in my blind... lol

Baron85 · Jan 5, 2023

As others have said my 6.5x47 with 140s and 26” barrel is running 2757 and that’s quite a bit bigger case than the BR.

My 26” Dasher with 112’s is running 2840

My 6br with 108 ELDM’s and 26” barrel is running 2880 and it’s pretty hot, really need to slow it down.

Just more reference points for you.

What distances are you wanting to shoot? Why not something like 300 blackout? 375 raptor ect. Something designed for short barrels and supressors

PharmerJon · Jan 5, 2023

Kanwhitetails said:
Alright. Then, does anyone know the lower velocity limit expansion threshold of the 130s?

Nosler 129 lower threshold is around 1350fps.
“IF” you can find some!

AccuBond® Long Range Bullets

AccuBond Long Range bullets were developed in response to the escalating demand from long-range hunters who were asking for a hunting bullet that could keep up with today’s level of high-grade optics and ultra-high velocity cartridges in order to stretch practical shooting yardages past 1,000 yards.

www.nosler.com

Supersubes · Jan 5, 2023

Kanwhitetails said:
Right, right. I knew all this internally, but wanted to believe in the BR magic.

The re-reading of the information I found online (a message board, I should have known better) States 2750-2800 out of the 6.5BR and 140s, and was published in oh-eight. I'm still thinking BS, even if it was a special reamer... The post that mentioned 2900 fps was a guy talking about a 6.5x284 later on. I should have read more carefully. I mean, who comments on a 6.5 BR thread about a totally unrelated cartridge, am I right?

I'm getting 2960 from my 26 inch 6BR running 108s, and am starting to see pressure. I thought magic existed in the efficiency of the case I guess...

I refer to published statements like "The 30BR is even more efficient than the 6BR. It can drive 120gr bullets faster than other cartridges, such as the 6.5-08, which burn 30% more powder", and "6BR shooters may be amazed at the speeds with which the 30BR can push 112-125gr bullets. After all, a standard 6BR case is hard-pressed to drive a 107gr SMK much past 2950fps even with a 30″ tube. The 30BR’s larger bore diameter is what makes that possible" in my defense. I realize too, that this is about the 30BR, but information may have melded into the ideal in my head somewhat.

I was hoping that it could be done, even if pushing brass harder than normal that I'd removed from the competition rotation, and wasn't worried about saving. (E.T.A. - Which is pretty stupid, I know better...)

Where to start…

Does any of this really make sense to you? Does it seem even remotely reasonable? If it does, you're batshit crazy. The person who wrote what you quoted lives in fantasy land.

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

@Baron85 The spot where I hunt is 50-450 yards, longest shot possible probably 400. I'd like to keep 1k foot pounds to at least 400. That was why I went to the 6.5 over just running a short 6BR. If the rifle turned out as precise as my 6BR, energy wouldn't be as necessary though. I can hit a 4" plate anywhere in the property, with shockingly little effort for my skill level. KYL racks will teach you and humiliate you. You learn to trust yourself and your equipment though. If I could do the same with the short BR, I wouldn't hesitate to take the 400 yard shot. I limit myself to 250 with my 12" gas Grendel, which is what I blind hunt with now. It's good, but it's nothing compared to the Impact in a Manners. I just can't do with it what I do with my comp gun.

To clarify, I run 2780 in my 6BR. I just ran up to 32.6 grains of SWPrecision to find maximums, and got to 2960 fps. The bolt was very sticky, the case head was pretty flat. Primer was flat, but not loose. I wouldn't run that load, it was as you correctly pointed out, too hot.
32.1 grains was probably too hot, too. That was probably what I'd call max, even if the brass wasn't showing all that much in the way of pressure. 31.0 gets me to 2780, which leaves some room for moisture, dust, ect without worrying about popping primers or sticky ejection.

Kanwhitetails · Jan 5, 2023

Supersubes said:
Where to start…

Does any of this really make sense to you? Does it seem even remotely reasonable? If it does, you're batshit crazy. The person who wrote what you quoted lives in fantasy land.

Until now, I though Accurateshooter was a reasonably good source...

I already said what you have about the 6.5 BR info...

RFutch · Jan 5, 2023

6.5x47 is what you seek. All the goodness of the 6br in a 6.5 caliber.

Superjet · Jan 5, 2023

I have an 18” 6.5 X 47 that I use for whitetail. It’s running 130 hybrids at 2650 with RL 16. Excellent deer round.

2c1fr · Oct 27, 2024

@Kanwhitetails did this ever go anywhere?

tactical-sniper · Oct 27, 2024

I have built a 6.5br Rem with a 1-8.25" twist 20" barrel on a Shilen Dga action, have had some chamber issues, but hopefully sorted now. Have been using vithavouri N140 and Norma 11(around Rel15) with 100gr amax,

Got to 820m/s without any serious pressure issues, but will do a new test with 123gr scenar and n135.

This is the test ladder:

Scotch_egg · Oct 28, 2024

tactical-sniper said:
I have built a 6.5br Rem with a 1-8.25" twist 20" barrel on a Shilen Dga action, have had some chamber issues, but hopefully sorted now. Have been using vithavouri N140 and Norma 11(around Rel15) with 100gr amax, View attachment 8532933 View attachment 8532932
Got to 820m/s without any serious pressure issues, but will do a new test with 123gr scenar and n135.

This is the test ladder:View attachment 8532931

Great little project for sure. It does confirm that the OP’s hope to achieve 2600fps with a 140gr bullet with a 14” barrel wasn’t going to be achievable.
There are numerous solid copper bullets on the market that would be a good alternative to the A-Max for deer hunting. They would give better penetration further out.

beetroot · Oct 28, 2024

Yeah, I don’t see 2600fps being remotely achievable with 130s or 140s with a 6.5BR.
My 260 with a 19” barrel will do 2800fps with 130s and 2680 with 140s, burning 43gr of powder.

powdahound76 · Oct 28, 2024

I had a 16.5” 6.5 creed barrel that was 2840 with a 123 Scenar and below Hodgdon book charge of h4350.

Was heavy, so sold it and redoing that idea in a lighter profile so next year we can hunt with it. 22.5” with can, for less weight than the original 16.5” bare.
May try Hammer bullets.

Will say a 140 Berger hunter was very devastating internally on a mule deer doe my daughter shot this weekend.

Personally, for 50 - 450 yd, I would go a little lighter on the bullet and up on speed.
Esp for whitetails.

lash · Oct 28, 2024

powdahound76 said:
I had a 16.5” 6.5 creed barrel that was 2840 with a 123 Scenar and below Hodgdon book charge of h4350.

Was heavy, so sold it and redoing that idea in a lighter profile so next year we can hunt with it. 22.5” with can, for less weight than the original 16.5” bare.
May try Hammer bullets.

Will say a 140 Berger hunter was very devastating internally on a mule deer doe my daughter shot this weekend.

Personally, for 50 - 450 yd, I would go a little lighter on the bullet and up on speed.
Esp for whitetails.

What profile are you going with on the 22.5”?

powdahound76 · Oct 28, 2024

lash said:
What profile are you going with on the 22.5”?

Barrel will be 16.5”.

With 6” suppressor will be 22.5” total

It will be for hunting only, mostly for the midget, so using a proof CF Sendero.
Found one new in box to finish at 16.5” for less than my Smith can get one on sale. Very close to a premium steel blank in price, and no worries about threading a light profile, so went for it.
I personally have noted less POI shifting and better repeatability With them vs light profile steel with barrel devices mounted and removed.

I like them for hunting. Usually involves some decent walking here in CO.

And use my truck axle steel barrels for target or match work

lash · Oct 28, 2024

powdahound76 said:
Barrel will be 16.5”.

With 6” suppressor will be 22.5” total

It will be for hunting only, mostly for the midget, so using a proof CF Sendero.
Found one new in box to finish at 16.5” for less than my Smith can get one on sale. Very close to a premium steel blank in price, and no worries about threading a light profile, so went for it.
I personally have noted less POI shifting and better repeatability With them vs light profile steel with barrel devices mounted and removed.

I like them for hunting. Usually involves some decent walking here in CO.

And use my truck axle steel barrels for target or match work

Thanks. As I think I already mentioned, I’m hem hawing about what to use. That sounds about perfect in .260.

powdahound76 · Oct 28, 2024

As I have told you before, Do it!!

Fun and handy.

If you have an action that would work, I will send you a 16” .308 barrel to give a try (origin with HLR lug or TL3) and see if you like it.

I know you wouldnt shoot the 6.5 creed.
You aint got pink shoes to do it in!!!

lash · Oct 28, 2024

powdahound76 said:
As I have told you before, Do it!!

Fun and handy.

If you have an action that would work, I will send you a 16” .308 barrel to give a try (origin with HLR lug or TL3) and see if you like it.

I know you wouldnt shoot the 6.5 creed.
You aint got pink shoes to do it in!!!

I’d love to take you up on that, but no origin or TL3. Options for this are either a R700 or a Stiller TAC-AW

Jmjuhl · Oct 29, 2024

While not a 6.5 BR, I built my 7yr old son a 6.5 Grendel on an Impact 737 with an 18" Bartlein carbon barrel for hunting this year. I have used the caliber a ton on AR platform for pigs and found the little round to punch WAY above its weight class. With the Hawkins flush mags it gave me a little more length and I was able to move the 127gr Barnes LRX out a bit to 2405fps average with CFE223. While he wont shoot anything over 100yds the bullet stays above 1k lbs of energy and above minimum expansion velocity out to 300yds and with a suppressor it has almost no recoil. Makes a light handy little package for deer sized game and even though its not moving very fast it hammers game.

Jmjuhl · Oct 29, 2024

Scotch_egg · Oct 30, 2024

Jmjuhl said:
While not a 6.5 BR, I built my 7yr old son a 6.5 Grendel on an Impact 737 with an 18" Bartlein carbon barrel for hunting this year. I have used the caliber a ton on AR platform for pigs and found the little round to punch WAY above its weight class. With the Hawkins flush mags it gave me a little more length and I was able to move the 127gr Barnes LRX out a bit to 2405fps average with CFE223. While he wont shoot anything over 100yds the bullet stays above 1k lbs of energy and above minimum expansion velocity out to 300yds and with a suppressor it has almost no recoil. Makes a light handy little package for deer sized game and even though its not moving very fast it hammers game.

Makes a lot of sense of go 6.5 Grendel with it being within a few grains of the BR case. It does however limit any future cartridges due to the size of the bolt face unless you have a changeable bolt face. But for the OP your experience will give a good idea of what to expect in a 6.5-6mmBR.

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