Distance to the lands question, and a thank you!

Marv_2101 · Nov 10, 2024

1. Do you measure distance to the lands everytime you swap bullets or once and done good enough?

2. I had a bunch of 212 grain eldx 30 cal bullets and 6.5mm sst given to me but some of them are tarnished, almost as if they were not kept in a climate controlled area there’s no rough spots on them or anything just a few discolored here and there. Are they good to run?

I also just wanted to say thank you to everyone on here who helped me on my reloading journey. I was brand new to this but was eager to learn so I read threw a few reloading manuals and reached out to a PRS buddy of mine and asked if I could watch him go threw his reloading process. I learned more in 30 minutes watching and talking with him than I did in any of those books.

Someone on here recommended I start with the 6.5 creedmoor as it’s easy to learn on so that’s what I did and here are some results. I know they’re 3 shot groups but this is coming out of a Ruger American with a thin barrel and I just didn’t want to waste components as I’m learning. I tweaked this load a little more and got SD down in the 4s keep in mind it’s a 22” barrel.

I figured maybe I just got lucky as that gun has always shot good for what it is so I started working on my older remmington 700 .270 that has hardly ever shot sub MOA and now that’s my most accurate deer rifle. A few pictures of the gun and results.

I’m sure there could be improvement but for my first reloads I was pretty happy and now I’m looking at expander mandrels and annealing to further increase precision. My simple reloading setup.

Aftermath · Nov 10, 2024

1.) You will find that different bullets will:
a) "Prefer" different distance to the lands. If you are not magazine restricted, it is worth determining where that is.
b) Require a different seating stem in order to seat the bullet accurately
2) Depending on your use, that tarnish isn't likely to alter point of impact. I've fired very old ammunition with no real noticeable accuracy loss. My OCD would not allow me to reload those, though. Your vibratory brass case cleaner won't take very long to remove that tarnish.

WasNH4X · Nov 10, 2024

I see yo wife put your ass in the closet, lol.......ie 270 , zero scope and go huntin (( add edit) and kill deer ,many deer.).....that's good enough.

Post above answered ,your questions

JR1200W3 · Nov 10, 2024

I think it's worth measuring anytime you start with a new bullet. It gives you awareness of a couple of things and it's just good data to keep as you load for the life of the barrel. Number 1, you don't want to load into the lands so your options are to pick a random OAL to load to and then chamber a loaded round and see if it feels like you're smashing the bullet into the lands, or.... you just start off knowing. And of course, like stated above you may have to selectively choose a jump distance for accuracy. It also lets you know how much potential case capacity you have when you're shooting long bullets at the limit of your mag restriction. And finally, you may choose to re-measure after many hundreds of rounds when you suspect that you're barrel could be highly worn. This will help you estimate some of the throat erosion. But you won't ever be able to compare with the latest measurement if you didn't start out with one.

Marv_2101 · Nov 10, 2024

WasNH4X said:
I see yo wife put your ass in the closet, lol.......ie 270 , zero scope and go huntin (( add edit) and kill deer ,many deer.).....that's good enough.

Post above answered ,your questions

Lol the closet was my only option I’m just glad it was big enough.

WasNH4X · Nov 10, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
Lol the closet was my only option I’m just glad it was big enough.

A little reminder....... Take notes,Keep notes ....on EVERYTHING

Fired h.s.( head space)
" c. l. (Case length )
" n.k. o.d. ( neck O.D. )
" " i.d.
Sized ^^^^^
New ^^^^^

Brass brand x number of firings/ loading assign lot numbers to them

What the load is ie:

Brass. Nosler or whatever brand it is
Primer
Powder and grains.
Bullet brand/ weight
oal overall cartridge length
Comparator oal base to ogieve ( sp)
Loaded neck o.d.

One last tip...if you havent bought one,get some kind of universal debt primer die, for your first step .look at primer pockets after de primed ......you want see a perfect 3pie shape of in the bottom from burnt primer.
Enjoy your new rabbit hole ,it goes deep

Edit: keep your targets and record load data next to groups

straightshooter1 · Nov 10, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
1. Do you measure distance to the lands everytime you swap bullets or once and done good enough?

Hmmm??? When you say "swap bullets" I assume you're talking about different weights and/or different brands. As such, yes. . .I always take a measurement to the lands to find a "starting point" as different bullets are of different lengths and the ogives are different shapes. The starting point can be either how far you are from the lands, or . . . it's the mag that limits your COAL, all depending on how you intend to feed the cartridges.

For me, since I seldom mag feed my cartridges, I want to find the CBTO where it touches the lands and decide on a starting point. When mag feeding, I never really bothered with that since everything I've ever tried to use that's mag fed is pretty far from the lands to start with and not a point for measuring to the lands.

For example, when loading long and hand feeding: if one is shooting .264 cartridge with 135 Berger Classic's and "swaps" for a Berger 156, most likely the 156 simply won't fit and it'll be jamming the lands. Likewise, if it's a .308 cartridge with a Berger 135 and one swaps it for a 210 Hunt, they're going to have the same issue. Note too, a lot of this will depend on the length of freebore in one's particular chamber.

You only have to measure to the lands once to see where that distance to the lands is and find a starting point for you're load development. From that point on, it's only about seating depth, not how far you are from the lands.

BTW: I do something that just isn't necessary, where I measure distance to the lands after every cleaning using exactly the same bullet each time to monitor and record the throat erosion of my barrels.

Marv_2101 said:
2. I had a bunch of 212 grain eldx 30 cal bullets and 6.5mm sst given to me but some of them are tarnished, almost as if they were not kept in a climate controlled area there’s no rough spots on them or anything just a few discolored here and there. Are they good to run?

I'd say YES, they're good to run. Any concern for me would be any damage to the surfaces or meplats.

Marv_2101 said:
I also just wanted to say thank you to everyone on here who helped me on my reloading journey. I was brand new to this but was eager to learn so I read threw a few reloading manuals and reached out to a PRS buddy of mine and asked if I could watch him go threw his reloading process. I learned more in 30 minutes watching and talking with him than I did in any of those books.

Someone on here recommended I start with the 6.5 creedmoor as it’s easy to learn on so that’s what I did and here are some results. I know they’re 3 shot groups but this is coming out of a Ruger American with a thin barrel and I just didn’t want to waste components as I’m learning. I tweaked this load a little more and got SD down in the 4s keep in mind it’s a 22” barrel.

Good going!

Now just develop a method for recording your loading and shooting data for future reference. It'll go a long way in helping you refine your reloading process and might even help with your shooting skill.

paulrem308 · Nov 10, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
1. Do you measure distance to the lands everytime you swap bullets or once and done good enough?

2. I had a bunch of 212 grain eldx 30 cal bullets and 6.5mm sst given to me but some of them are tarnished, almost as if they were not kept in a climate controlled area there’s no rough spots on them or anything just a few discolored here and there. Are they good to run?

I also just wanted to say thank you to everyone on here who helped me on my reloading journey. I was brand new to this but was eager to learn so I read threw a few reloading manuals and reached out to a PRS buddy of mine and asked if I could watch him go threw his reloading process. I learned more in 30 minutes watching and talking with him than I did in any of those books.

Someone on here recommended I start with the 6.5 creedmoor as it’s easy to learn on so that’s what I did and here are some results. I know they’re 3 shot groups but this is coming out of a Ruger American with a thin barrel and I just didn’t want to waste components as I’m learning. I tweaked this load a little more and got SD down in the 4s keep in mind it’s a 22” barrel. View attachment 8543183 View attachment 8543184

I figured maybe I just got lucky as that gun has always shot good for what it is so I started working on my older remmington 700 .270 that has hardly ever shot sub MOA and now that’s my most accurate deer rifle. A few pictures of the gun and results.
View attachment 8543186
View attachment 8543187 View attachment 8543188

I’m sure there could be improvement but for my first reloads I was pretty happy and now I’m looking at expander mandrels and annealing to further increase precision. My simple reloading setup. View attachment 8543189

What is that tricler set up? How well does it work.

Aftermath · Nov 10, 2024

Unless you are mag feeding, measuring cartridge overall length is rather pointless. Maybe measure and record for posterity.

Measure cartridge base to ogive. The ogive is what is going to be hitting the barrel first, not the tip of the bullet.

Edit to say: that even if not a detachable mag, you may be magazine limited to a certain cartridge overall length and still be very far away from being able to seat a bullet to jam length.

straightshooter1 · Nov 10, 2024

Aftermath said:
Unless you are mag feeding, measuring cartridge overall length is rather pointless. Maybe measure and record for posterity.

Measure cartridge base to ogive. The ogive is what is going to be hitting the barrel first, not the tip of the bullet.

Edit to say: that even if not a detachable mag, you may be magazine limited to a certain cartridge overall length and still be very far away from being able to seat a bullet to jam length.

When conveying one's cartridge set up to someone else, like via online blogs, COAL is best to know and convey, even though there's some variance in a projectiles OAL, since measurements of CBTO's as well as distances to the lands can vary greatly due to variances in equipment being used to take the measurements and chamber dimensions. If someone tells me their COAL, I can better determine that cartridge's relation to my chamber than just knowing someone else's CBTO.

In terms of one's personal use for reloading, you're right, COAL has little if any point to it. . . other than determining whether a cartridge will fit in a mag.

Aftermath · Nov 11, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
When conveying one's cartridge set up to someone else, like via online blogs, COAL is best to know and convey, even though there's some variance in a projectiles OAL, since measurements of CBTO's as well as distances to the lands can vary greatly due to variances in equipment being used to take the measurements and chamber dimensions. If someone tells me their COAL, I can better determine that cartridge's relation to my chamber than just knowing someone else's CBTO.

In terms of one's personal use for reloading, you're right, COAL has little if any point to it. . . other than determining whether a cartridge will fit in a mag.

So...in the case at hand, the OP is wondering about his very own stuff....
What would be your sage advice to him?

straightshooter1 · Nov 11, 2024

Aftermath said:
So...in the case at hand, the OP is wondering about his very own stuff....
What would be your sage advice to him?

My response was here: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...estion-and-a-thank-you.7236970/#post-11855993

Aftermath · Nov 11, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
My response was here: https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...estion-and-a-thank-you.7236970/#post-11855993

No shit?

Now, please use all that sage wisdom to completely explain how using COAL is so much better at conveying info to someone as compared to CBTO and when that info would even matter, even across the interwebs. Does it even matter, and when would it matter, what COAL another person is using? How is COAL any more or less accurate than CBTO for any chamber? Where were there any questions about COAL to be shared?

Here's one for ya....measure 1000 bullets base to tip, record. What is the ES and SD of that measurement? Now do the same, using the same 1000 bullets, but this time measure base to ogive. Get back to us...

straightshooter1 · Nov 11, 2024

Aftermath said:
No shit?

Now, please use all that sage wisdom to completely explain how using COAL is so much better at conveying info to someone as compared to CBTO and when that info would even matter, even across the interwebs. Does it even matter, and when would it matter, what COAL another person is using? How is COAL any more or less accurate than CBTO for any chamber? Where were there any questions about COAL to be shared?

Here's one for ya....measure 1000 bullets base to tip, record. What is the ES and SD of that measurement? Now do the same, using the same 1000 bullets, but this time measure base to ogive. Get back to us...

When I measure a 169 SMK's BTO with the appropriate Hornady comparator I get .653". When I do the same with a Sinclair comparator I get .586". That's a .067" difference.

In addition to differences in chamber freebores, there's the throat erosion. Like in my current .308 barrel its original CBTO measurement to touch was 2.217 and is currently at 2.278 as measured with my Sinclair comparator.

If someone tells me their .308 cartridges has a CBTO of 2.225 (just for example) and is .010 off the lands using a Hornady comparator (which BTW Hornady comparators can have variations of their own), how am I to come close to duplicating or even comparing the same seating depth when there could be as much as .067 difference in what I would measure with my comparator? That 2.225 really not useful information to me. Same goes for saying how far off the lands they are since my freebore and/or throat erosion makes for a very different seating depth if I were to use that CBTO as a guide.

If that someone instead tells me their cartridge COAL (and I typically assume they're stating an average, given the variation in bullet's BTOs), I can get a better idea of the seating depth by seating a bullet into a dummy case to that COAL, then measure the CBTO with my own comparator. Then I have a better idea as to the distance the bullet has been seated and how it might or might not fit in my particular chamber. Yes, various lots of bullets as well as the bullets within a lot have what I'd characterize as significant variation in BTO's. But not as much as variance as there is between various comparators and freebores. A stated COAL simply provides a better information for an idea of what one's cartridge configuration is actually like.

Aftermath · Nov 12, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
When I measure a 169 SMK's BTO with the appropriate Hornady comparator I get .653". When I do the same with a Sinclair comparator I get .586". That's a .067" difference.

In addition to differences in chamber freebores, there's the throat erosion. Like in my current .308 barrel its original CBTO measurement to touch was 2.217 and is currently at 2.278 as measured with my Sinclair comparator.

If someone tells me their .308 cartridges has a CBTO of 2.225 (just for example) and is .010 off the lands using a Hornady comparator (which BTW Hornady comparators can have variations of their own), how am I to come close to duplicating or even comparing the same seating depth when there could be as much as .067 difference in what I would measure with my comparator? That 2.225 really not useful information to me. Same goes for saying how far off the lands they are since my freebore and/or throat erosion makes for a very different seating depth if I were to use that CBTO as a guide.

If that someone instead tells me their cartridge COAL (and I typically assume they're stating an average, given the variation in bullet's BTOs), I can get a better idea of the seating depth by seating a bullet into a dummy case to that COAL, then measure the CBTO with my own comparator. Then I have a better idea as to the distance the bullet has been seated and how it might or might not fit in my particular chamber. Yes, various lots of bullets as well as the bullets within a lot have what I'd characterize as significant variation in BTO's. But not as much as variance as there is between various comparators and freebores. A stated COAL simply provides a better information for an idea of what one's cartridge configuration is actually like.

I don't think you really thought that through.

First: It doesn't matter that you get different measurements when you use different tools. Just use the same tool.

Second: Who cares what someone else has for any measurement in THEIR rifle using THEIR tools? It's not a dick measuring contest.

Third: Just reread all that crap you posted. Oh, use this but of course there's erosion and differences in measuring tools and even the way the chamber is cut and you left out how the other dude is measuring even if he is using the same brand tools and both sets have been verified to be exactly calibrated. Then you say you want to know the COAL so you can then find a CBTO...WTF? Why not just use the CBTO?

Finally, NONE OF THAT ADDRESSES WHAT THE OP ASKED ABOUT>

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Distance to the lands question, and a thank you!

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