Dedicated mile gun

UKMan · Nov 8, 2024

I am able to make it to Thunder Valley in Ohio a few times a year to take advantage of what a great facility it is. That being said it sure is fun to take my 6.5cm out to the 1,200 yard steel, have even made impact on low wind days at a mile but it does leave something to be desired. Would like to add another caliber to my collection.

If you were going to build out a dedicated mile gun would you go 300 win mag or 300 prc. Keeping in mind I do not reload nor have the time to (hence only being able to get there a few times a year) so want the most bang for my buck. Thanks

Taylorbok · Nov 8, 2024

of the two I'd do a 300 PRC. Better suited to long heavy bullets, If you get into reloading you can load 250 A-tips at mag length still, that will be a challenge with the WM

UKMan · Nov 8, 2024

Taylorbok said:
of the two I'd do a 300 PRC. Better suited to long heavy bullets, If you get into reloading you can load 250 A-tips at mag length still, that will be a challenge with the WM

Thank you, any other factory loadings you recommend?

DocRDS · Nov 8, 2024

UKMan said:
I am able to make it to Thunder Valley in Ohio a few times a year to take advantage of what a great facility it is. That being said it sure is fun to take my 6.5cm out to the 1,200 yard steel, have even made impact on low wind days at a mile but it does leave something to be desired. Would like to add another caliber to my collection.

If you were going to build out a dedicated mile gun would you go 300 win mag or 300 prc. Keeping in mind I do not reload nor have the time to (hence only being able to get there a few times a year) so want the most bang for my buck. Thanks

Magnums are where you get the most bang for you buck in reloading. Even a simple single stage press really starts to save you money. Just putting the thought in your head.

PRC over Win Mag, no belt. designed for longer (aka heavier bullets). Getting a heavy factory round can be tough---with 300 WM is was tough to find anything over 185gr factory.

375fan · Nov 8, 2024

As someone who has both, 300wm which I've put lots of rounds through over the years and have went through 3 barrels, it is very capable but it's pretty much maxed out over what it originally was designed for.
The PRC is the very modern updated version. Great round in many ways. Since you don't reload, the factory 225 load is a good one for you.
I haven't shot the 225 from Hornady but I have shot the 212ELD-X load and the accuracy was very good.

UKMan · Nov 8, 2024

DocRDS said:
Magnums are where you get the most bang for you buck in reloading. Even a simple single stage press really starts to save you money. Just putting the thought in your head.

PRC over Win Mag, no belt. designed for longer (aka heavier bullets). Getting a heavy factory round can be tough---with 300 WM is was tough to find anything over 185gr factory.

For sure would like to look more into it (reloading) in the future, life is just busy now and it’s hard enough to get to the range. For cost savings on Magnums what are you seeing CPR compared to factory loadings?

TripleBull · Nov 8, 2024

UKMan said:
Thank you, any other factory loadings you recommend?

The Hornady 225 ELDM has been very consistent at a mile for me. Best on 18" target is 4 of 5, quite a few 2/5 and 3/5 groups. I have not gotten a chance to shoot the Berger 245s yet.

It's worth the hassle and cost to get into handloading for ELR. You're welcome.

xpshooter · Nov 8, 2024

UKMan said:
I am able to make it to Thunder Valley in Ohio a few times a year to take advantage of what a great facility it is. That being said it sure is fun to take my 6.5cm out to the 1,200 yard steel, have even made impact on low wind days at a mile but it does leave something to be desired. Would like to add another caliber to my collection.

If you were going to build out a dedicated mile gun would you go 300 win mag or 300 prc. Keeping in mind I do not reload nor have the time to (hence only being able to get there a few times a year) so want the most bang for my buck. Thanks

That's a fantastic range for sure, as far as a dedicated mile gun you should really ask Tom next time you're there, he's full of knowledge and knows what calibers wins the matches at his range.

UKMan · Nov 8, 2024

xpshooter said:
That's a fantastic range for sure, as far as a dedicated mile gun you should really ask Tom next time you're there, he's full of knowledge and knows what calibers wins the matches at his range.

Now that’s a great idea!

DocRDS · Nov 9, 2024

UKMan said:
For sure would like to look more into it (reloading) in the future, life is just busy now and it’s hard enough to get to the range. For cost savings on Magnums what are you seeing CPR compared to factory loadings?

Since I don't look for factory ammo I could be off, but sierra 220MK (for 300WM) are like 60-80C, Brass is $1 (and gets reused--just save your brass--I'm using my old wincester/federal), primers are 0.10.
Ammo IIRC is over $2-3 a round (just checked at Midway) and that was for 185 in 300 WM. The max was 200 Gr. You use about twice as much powder ($40-50 per 100+--very rough guess, I figure about 200 rounds of 308/6.5 per pound) I used Hornady 208 ELD-X (40 cents per round?) before as well. Beause we don't volume load for Magnums typically, its worth the effort once you find time. So its a savings of over a dollar a round and I get EXACTLY what I want. I don't imagine PRC is much different.--most of those loads commerically are hunting loads and you want match loads/bullets.

MOUNTIC · Nov 9, 2024

300 PRC and 225 ELDM is the easy button at a mile. $40 a box. Sell the brass and your into it for a buck a round.

I havent seen any advantage with heavier pills In PRC and even 300NM for that matter. The 215 bergers in 300 PRC are another great option. I quit reloading also for 300 PRC.

j-moose32 · Nov 9, 2024

MOUNTIC said:
300 PRC and 225 ELDM is the easy button at a mile. $40 a box. Sell the brass and your into it for a buck a round.

I havent seen any advantage with heavier pills In PRC and even 300NM for that matter. The 215 bergers in 300 PRC are another great option. I quit reloading also for 300 PRC.

Were you snagging it from at 40$ a box? (If you don’t mind sharing)

MOUNTIC · Nov 9, 2024

j-moose32 said:
Were you snagging it from at 40$ a box? (If you don’t mind sharing)

Mile High had it for $40. Looks like they are at $42.99 now. I'm sure others out there for less.

Kickin45 · Nov 10, 2024

7PRC
But of the 2 the OP mentions, if your not handloading, 300PRC.
If you even have a thought about handloads, WM.

ggmanning · Nov 10, 2024

I shoot 300WM for my long gun. Pretty much because I am invested in it and have all the special sauce for it. I do get my chambers cut with more freebore to allow seating 215 Berger Hybrids longer and am able to run 2900ish with no issue. That said were I starting without the good 300WM brass in bulk and Larry Willis collet sizing die for the belt area I'd go straight for the 300 PRC or 300 Norma

Ronin22 · Nov 10, 2024

I shoot the mile with a Savage Elite Precision 300WM. 208 ELDMs and 215 Bergers. I very much like outshooting others with very expensive rigs.

UKMan · Nov 10, 2024

Ronin22 said:
I shoot the mile with a Savage Elite Precision 300WM. 208 ELDMs and 215 Bergers. I very much like outshooting others with very expensive rigs.

Love my savages as well!

Asgard1 · Nov 10, 2024

UKMan said:
I am able to make it to Thunder Valley in Ohio a few times a year to take advantage of what a great facility it is. That being said it sure is fun to take my 6.5cm out to the 1,200 yard steel, have even made impact on low wind days at a mile but it does leave something to be desired. Would like to add another caliber to my collection.

If you were going to build out a dedicated mile gun would you go 300 win mag or 300 prc. Keeping in mind I do not reload nor have the time to (hence only being able to get there a few times a year) so want the most bang for my buck. Thanks

Are you planning on building a custom rifle or just off the shelf to use off the shelf ammo.

UKMan · Nov 10, 2024

Asgard1 said:
Are you planning on building a custom rifle or just off the shelf to use off the shelf ammo.

Looking at the factory route and right now, within my budget, looks like the RPR, Savage or I believe Bergara makes some 300PRC models as well. Purely a bench gun.

vh20 · Nov 10, 2024

MOUNTIC said:
300 PRC and 225 ELDM is the easy button at a mile. $40 a box. Sell the brass and your into it for a buck a round.

I havent seen any advantage with heavier pills In PRC and even 300NM for that matter. The 215 bergers in 300 PRC are another great option. I quit reloading also for 300 PRC.

Eh….for the OP’s specific requirements, that would be my suggestion as well - 300PRC and Hornady 225 ELD Match ammo will hit the sweet spot between performance, cost, etc.
HOWEVER, the quality of factory ammo post-2021 is of no comparison to pre-Covid production. This has even been admitted by them on this site. It’s not their fault, it’s the state of the way things are. My pre-2021 225ELD ammo was “good” (not great, but good enough). But then I got into mid- or late-2021-to-present production ammo and it really went to crap. They can’t source the same powder (presumably it used to be RL26, but now it’s not even a stick powder. It’s a ball powder that I’m guessing might be StaBall HD). So, while it will still shoot nice groups at 100, the performance at 1 mile sucks due to the huge ES/SD in this ammo. I wasn’t planning on loading for the 300PRC (I have other ELR cartridges I shoot nothing but hand loads in), but the drop in quality has forced me to abandon the factory ammo, bite the “bullet” (pun intended!), and develop a decent load for the PRC, which is all I run through it now. There are a couple of cases of 225ELD ammo in my stash that may never get shot due to the disappointing drop in performance circa 2021. The new stuff will still hit occasionally at 1 mile, but it will also really piss you off when you get your wind hold perfect and continue to miss high or low because of MV variation.
All that said, back to the OP, the 300PRC/Hornady 225 ELD Match combination is still probably the best option for the OP’s specific desire.

Taylorbok · Nov 11, 2024

If only using factory I’d want to shoot the Berger factory ammo with 245’s if you can find it.

IMO it’s worth getting into hand loading.

Hound Dog · Nov 12, 2024

vh20 said:
They can’t source the same powder (presumably it used to be RL26,

Didn't they discontinue RL26, or at least not in production anymore? I had some on the "notify me when in stock" feature from about everywhere. I got an email a while back that it was no longer in production

vh20 · Nov 12, 2024

Hound Dog said:
Didn't they discontinue RL26, or at least not in production anymore? I had some on the "notify me when in stock" feature from about everywhere. I got an email a while back that it was no longer in production

Yes, perhaps permanently. The Hornady engineer who is a member here said that since they don't manufacture their own powder, they used mainly Alliant and Hodgdon powders. He said prior to Covid, they were "swimming" in it, but now Alliant (who makes all the RL- powders) has discontinued all civilian sales and Hodgdon is much harder to get as well, so they have had to move to alternate sources that aren't as optimal for their specific loads. He didn't state that the pre-Covid 300PRC load used RL26 specifically. That is my (and many others here) assumption because if you dismantled a round, the powder looked like it, performed like it on a charge-weight basis, and RL26 is pretty much an optimal choice for 300PRC. I have not dismantled a recent-production Hornady 300PRC round, but several have and are finding ball powder in them now. The change seems to coincide with a much larger ES/SD being seen in that load now. Again, not blaming Hornady, they're just doing the best they can with what is available to them.

HD1911 · Nov 13, 2024

Hornady 300PRC ammo is shit, so I’ve been shooting the Berger loaded 245s exclusively. Massive difference between the two.

vh20 · Nov 13, 2024

HD1911 said:
Hornady 300PRC ammo is shit, so I’ve been shooting the Berger loaded 245s exclusively. Massive difference between the two.

What kind of ES/SD are you getting out of it?

HD1911 · Nov 13, 2024

SD Average of 8fps w/ Berger and 15fps w/ Hornady, plus tighter groups, higher actual BC (.420 vs .371) and having leftover Lapua brass is just icing on the cake. Made my decision easy after having shot a couple hundred Hornady and Hornady TAP 225 rounds, trying to give it a very thorough and fair shake. The Hornady, both flavors, were just super aggravating, especially at distance. I bought the Berger in bulk from Euro at a great price, only $17 more per box than the Hornady. And with the resale value of the spent Lapua brass over the Hornady, it really made this a no brainer for me. Atleast until I reload at some point, if ever.

j-moose32 · Nov 13, 2024

HD1911 said:
SD Average of 8fps w/ Berger and 15fps w/ Hornady, plus tighter groups, higher actual BC (.420 vs .371) and having leftover Lapua brass is just icing on the cake. Made my decision easy after having shot a couple hundred Hornady and Hornady TAP 225 rounds, trying to give it a very thorough and fair shake. The Hornady, both flavors, were just super aggravating, especially at distance. I bought the Berger in bulk from Euro at a great price, only $17 more per box than the Hornady. And with the resale value of the spent Lapua brass over the Hornady, it really made this a no brainer for me. Atleast until I reload at some point, if ever.

You got a good deal for sure, seeing at minimum 21$ more per box before shipping etc

HD1911 · Nov 13, 2024

No doubt. I mean, I used to shoot factory 300NM at $85ish a box, for 230gr hybrid loads, so this $60 a box of 245gr EOLs seems like a steal, LOL. It still hurts, but hurts a helluva lot less now.

Admittedly, my one and only gripe is that it’s kinda slow (2,720), but also I won’t mind the relatively decent barrel life as result of that. With as tight and consistent and stable as it is, I’ll live with it.

That $43 a box for Hornady from MH plus the recent 15% off was a killer deal to be sure, but I just couldn’t stand all the damn flyers I was having. Also, the ambient temperature greatly affected the Hornady’s average speed, whereas the Berger has been way more temp stable.

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

I did a bunch of research and decided on the 7 PRC for a mile rifle. The article below spells out why. If youre going past 2K you'll want more though.

Head to Head: 7mm PRC vs. 300 PRC

American Hunter
https://www.americanhunter.org › content › head-to-hea...

Nov 1, 2023 — The 7mm PRC will handle some of the lighter projectiles better than the 300 PRC will makes for a more versatile choice for the hunter.

Taylorbok · Nov 13, 2024

Maggot said:
I did a bunch of research and decided on the 7 PRC for a mile rifle. The article below spells out why. If youre going past 2K you'll want more though.

IMO this greatly depends on the terrain. If you've got moon dust a 7mm is easy to spot. In actual dirt the ground can very easily just swallow that bullet and you'll never spot a miss. 30 Cal is much easier to spot at a mile.

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

Taylorbok said:
IMO this greatly depends on the terrain. If you've got moon dust a 7mm is easy to spot. In actual dirt the ground can very easily just swallow that bullet and you'll never spot a miss. 30 Cal is much easier to spot at a mile.

Thats true but doesnt affect the over all ballistics of the round.

AznTactical · Nov 13, 2024

Maggot said:
I did a bunch of research and decided on the 7 PRC for a mile rifle. The article below spells out why. If youre going past 2K you'll want more though.

Head to Head: 7mm PRC vs. 300 PRC
View attachment 8545448
American Hunter
https://www.americanhunter.org › content › head-to-hea...

Nov 1, 2023 — The 7mm PRC will handle some of the lighter projectiles better than the 300 PRC will makes for a more versatile choice for the hunter.

This article is complete udder Bullshit. My buddy and I used that article and factory Hornady ammo ballistic data to help us decide between 7 or 300 PRC, also for a mile. I am a reloader and cannot get close to 2975 with 180 eldms without massive pressure signs in my newly built 7 PRC with 24" barrel. It now has 400 rounds through the barrel and my MV is 2915 (2880fps with 190gr A-tips). My buddy is using factory Hornady 7 PRC and is getting 2820 fps out of his 24" 7 PRC. He bought 2 cases of it so he's stuck with it. Lots of talk on the Hide and Youtube about Hornady throttling it back which pisses me off because I spent a lot of money on this build based on their data that was marketed to us.

Maggot · Nov 13, 2024

AznTactical said:
This article is complete udder Bullshit. My buddy and I used that article and factory Hornady ammo ballistic data to help us decide between 7 or 300 PRC, also for a mile. I am a reloader and cannot get close to 2975 with 180 eldms without massive pressure signs in my newly built 7 PRC with 24" barrel. It now has 400 rounds through the barrel and my MV is 2915 (2880fps with 190gr A-tips). My buddy is using factory Hornady 7 PRC and is getting 2820 fps out of his 24" 7 PRC. He bought 2 cases of it so he's stuck with it. Lots of talk on the Hide and Youtube about Hornady throttling it back which pisses me off because I spent a lot of money on this build based on their data that was marketed to us.

Interesting. Your experience noted, but "udder"? Did you mean 'Utter" because this is an udder, LOL.

AznTactical · Nov 13, 2024

Maggot said:
Interesting. Your experience noted, but "udder"? Did you mean 'Utter" because this is an udder, LOL.

I am from WI so udder it is for lol's.

Taylorbok · Nov 13, 2024

Maggot said:
Thats true but doesnt affect the over all ballistics of the round.

It doesn't affect the ballistics that is true. However, if you don't spot a miss you have nothing to correct from which will greatly reduce your hit percentage.

Rocketmandb · Nov 14, 2024

HD1911 said:
SD Average of 8fps w/ Berger and 15fps w/ Hornady, plus tighter groups, higher actual BC (.420 vs .371) and having leftover Lapua brass is just icing on the cake. Made my decision easy after having shot a couple hundred Hornady and Hornady TAP 225 rounds, trying to give it a very thorough and fair shake. The Hornady, both flavors, were just super aggravating, especially at distance. I bought the Berger in bulk from Euro at a great price, only $17 more per box than the Hornady. And with the resale value of the spent Lapua brass over the Hornady, it really made this a no brainer for me. Atleast until I reload at some point, if ever.

Friends don't let friends drive Hornady brass (or bullets).

Rocketmandb · Nov 14, 2024

Taylorbok said:
It doesn't affect the ballistics that is true. However, if you don't spot a miss you have nothing to correct from which will greatly reduce your hit percentage.

I love guessing at how to adjust my next shot. It is so much fun!

... said no one ever.

This is why my 37XC frustrated me so much (vs my 300 PRC). One would think that the hit rate at 2250 yards would go heavily in favor of the 37XC, but at that range, the copper solids out of the 37 are much harder to spot (both hits and misses) than lead core Bergers on the 300. On a "bad ground" day, they are about equal in hit rate due to this.

It's not as much of a difference in comparing two jacketed rounds of different, yet similar, rates, but in mediocre conditions, everything counts.

Related anecdote: My first time taking my 37XC to 2500 yards, I was self spotting. About 1/2 my shots I failed to spot, and I saw no hits. I thought I'd missed every shot and was very frustrated. When I went to pick up the target, I found five little copper splotches on it. Spotting power is every bit as important as other factors.

375fan · Nov 14, 2024

Rocketmandb said:
I love guessing at how to adjust my next shot. It is so much fun!

... said no one ever.

This is why my 37XC frustrated me so much (vs my 300 PRC). One would think that the hit rate at 2250 yards would go heavily in favor of the 37XC, but at that range, the copper solids out of the 37 are much harder to spot (both hits and misses) than lead core Bergers on the 300. On a "bad ground" day, they are about equal in hit rate due to this.

It's not as much of a difference in comparing two jacketed rounds of different, yet similar, rates, but in mediocre conditions, everything counts.

Related anecdote: My first time taking my 37XC to 2500 yards, I was self spotting. About 1/2 my shots I failed to spot, and I saw no hits. I thought I'd missed every shot and was very frustrated. When I went to pick up the target, I found five little copper splotches on it. Spotting power is every bit as important as other factors.

Funny you mention about the bullet differences solid vs. lead core.
Couple weeks ago at Camp Atterrbury for ELR match. Was shooting my 338LM with 285ELDM's in heavy division. At 2209 yard target my misses were showing up on the grass ground, short or right of target , which helped with adjustments.
Now, my fellow competitors were shooting big stuff, 375 or 416 variations with mostly solid monolithic type bullets, couldn't see their misses unless you could see trace.

Rocketmandb · Nov 15, 2024

375fan said:
Funny you mention about the bullet differences solid vs. lead core.
Couple weeks ago at Camp Atterrbury for ELR match. Was shooting my 338LM with 285ELDM's in heavy division. At 2209 yard target my misses were showing up on the grass ground, short or right of target , which helped with adjustments.
Now, my fellow competitors were shooting big stuff, 375 or 416 variations with mostly solid monolithic type bullets, couldn't see their misses unless you could see trace.

This matches with my experience. It's also why I'm giving my 37XC this barrel to behave. If she doesn't, I'm going down to 338AI - I've given her fair warning, so she shouldn't be surprised by the "demotion".

264win · Nov 15, 2024

UKMan said:
I am able to make it to Thunder Valley in Ohio a few times a year to take advantage of what a great facility it is. That being said it sure is fun to take my 6.5cm out to the 1,200 yard steel, have even made impact on low wind days at a mile but it does leave something to be desired. Would like to add another caliber to my collection.

If you were going to build out a dedicated mile gun would you go 300 win mag or 300 prc. Keeping in mind I do not reload nor have the time to (hence only being able to get there a few times a year) so want the most bang for my buck. Thanks

If you are set on shooting factory ammo, I would go with the 300 win mag of your choices. But it’s well worth taking a look at the 338 Lapua as well. It has a great selection of quality factory ammo and factory rifles.

GunnyUSMC · Thursday at 4:40 PM

if you are not reloading... i agree with everyone that 300PRC would be my pick because of the available factory ammo.

If i had a choice of a factory gun vs custom, i choose custom because of the flexibility in that you are able to replace barrels and change calibers without having to buy a whole new gun. Buy once... cry once.

When it comes to SD and ES... there are so many variables that come into play that you cannot make a general statement regarding how one bullet or one caliber will perform. this is totally dependent on how you load and whether or not you have found the right load for your specific gun.

Something to consider is twist. If you are going with a factory gun, you wouldnt have much control over that but in a custom build, you have choices. Some like 1:9 and some prefer 1:8. I started out with a 1:9 in my 300PRC (actually it was a gain twist 9.25-9) and it shot really well. Because it was a 1:9 twist, I was sticking to the 230gr Bergers. I wanted to go to their 245s but initially Berger stated that 245s should be shot in a 1:8 or faster. Berger later recanted and are now saying that the 245s will stabilize in a 1:9. I took my 300PRC with the 1:9 and 230gr Bergers out to 2000 yds with no problem

I had a spare barrel in a 1:8 twist so I mounted that with plans to use the Berger 245s exclusively. Unfortunately, before I was able to do any load development, i made another last minute change that i am excited about.

I pulled my new barrel off and had a new one built chambered in 338 Edge. My new 338 Edge barrel will have enough room to push the 300gr Berger as far out as i want to. I am preparing to test the 300gr Berger and the 300gr Hornady A-Max.

If everything works out as planned/hoped, that will become my dedicated and ultimate ONE-MILE gun. I am planning on using it in upcoming ELR matches in the light class.

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