Suppressors Beating a dead horse, Ultra 9 vs Magnus

03CR · Nov 13, 2024

Rifle is an AI AX primarily shooting .308 and 6.5 CM. Have even tossed around the idea of a 16” 300BO barrel strictly for subs just because. I think I’ve narrowed it down to the Ultra 9 and the Magnus.

I don’t own any magnums and currently have no plans to. I don’t shoot PRS so length isn’t a huge concern. This isn’t a hunting rig so weight isn’t really a consideration. I guess ultimately what I’m after is sound reduction. I know the Magnus meters better but is the decibel reduction over the Ultra 9 really that noticeable at the ear and worth the few hundred bucks extra? I don’t have a way to quantify how much say a 5db difference is.

Zak Smith · Nov 13, 2024

Magnus!!

Same length, quieter!

black5.3 · Nov 13, 2024

Kinda in the same predicament. Really want the magnus but the lighter weight of the Ultra 9 is appealing.

gebhardt02 · Nov 13, 2024

I have an original 30P-1 that I use the most. Not really sure if it's technically the predecessor to the ultra 9, but it's a great can and I think excellent sound reduction. Been shooting my Magnus more and more and love it as well.

You won't go wrong with either of those options. Choose which ever your finances determine.

Krob95 · Nov 14, 2024

Have both, magnus is quieter imo

Hoser · Nov 14, 2024

I have both. The Magnus is quieter for sure. I also like the SR feature.

03CR · Nov 14, 2024

Is the Magnus slightly quieter, or is it a notable difference? I don’t have a way to hear them in person so I’d hate to spend quite a bit more for the Magnus if the sound reduction difference is minimal.

Fig · Nov 14, 2024

03CR · Nov 14, 2024

Fig said:
View attachment 8545997

Gross, I don’t like either of those.

FuhQ · Nov 14, 2024

03CR said:
Rifle is an AI AX primarily shooting .308 and 6.5 CM. Have even tossed around the idea of a 16” 300BO barrel strictly for subs just because. I think I’ve narrowed it down to the Ultra 9 and the Magnus.

I don’t own any magnums and currently have no plans to. I don’t shoot PRS so length isn’t a huge concern. This isn’t a hunting rig so weight isn’t really a consideration. I guess ultimately what I’m after is sound reduction. I know the Magnus meters better but is the decibel reduction over the Ultra 9 really that noticeable at the ear and worth the few hundred bucks extra? I don’t have a way to quantify how much say a 5db difference is.

Here’s my suggestions… If you want…

Maximum DB drop - Magnus

Portability, and plenty quiet enough - Magnus-S

FuhQ · Nov 14, 2024

03CR said:
Is the Magnus slightly quieter, or is it a notable difference? I don’t have a way to hear them in person so I’d hate to spend quite a bit more for the Magnus if the sound reduction difference is minimal.

Magnus has notably more internal volume. It’s noticeably quieter than the U9.

jabonra · Nov 14, 2024

I have read that 10db is perceived at the ear as twice as loud so 5db is nothing to scoff at. If the ounces dont matter save the eardrums!

Zak Smith · Nov 14, 2024

Here's my breakdown: very lightweight but still quiet enough for most applications - Ultra 7. Want quietest- Magnus.

03CR · Nov 14, 2024

Thanks for the insight guys.

st1650 · Nov 14, 2024

Magnus, especially on a bolt gun. No substitute for volume.

carbonbased · Nov 14, 2024

A bit off topic, but what’s always confused me is with 556, why is the Ultra 7 the quietest of all current TBAC cans? (Shooter’s ear)

Not much quieter, but even if they’re all dead even it’d be weird. PDF attached or go to the link.

https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024.pdf

Dave · Nov 16, 2024

Neither. Since you seem to be price conscious, go with the Enticer LTi. Indistinguishable in performance from the Magnus, in a much more affordable package, that's also significantly lighter and smaller.

FuhQ · Nov 16, 2024

Dave said:
Neither. Since you seem to be price conscious, go with the Enticer LTi. Indistinguishable in performance from the Magnus, in a much more affordable package, that's also significantly lighter and smaller.

Yeah, I don't think that's quite an accurate statement... It's kind of misleading, since a suppressor has many factors other than just DB numbers. While it's a good can that does well in the numbers department, I don't think it's on an equal playing field with the Magnus...Especially once you factor in TBAC's industry-leading runout and precision of the build and assembly.

BurtG · Nov 16, 2024

Dave said:
Neither. Since you seem to be price conscious, go with the Enticer LTi. Indistinguishable in performance from the Magnus, in a much more affordable package, that's also significantly lighter and smaller.

Ok 2003 173 post member

Dave · Nov 17, 2024

BurtG said:
Ok 2003 173 post member

OK 2,800 posts per year member

jzerfoss · Nov 17, 2024

Dave said:
Neither. Since you seem to be price conscious, go with the Enticer LTi. Indistinguishable in performance from the Magnus, in a much more affordable package, that's also significantly lighter and smaller.

FuhQ said:
Yeah, I don't think that's quite an accurate statement... It's kind of misleading, since a suppressor has many factors other than just DB numbers. While it's a good can that does well in the numbers department, I don't think it's on an equal playing field with the Magnus...Especially once you factor in TBAC's industry-leading runout and precision of the build and assembly.

I own 3 TBACs including a Magnus and a DDC Enticer S TI. I love my Magnus but Dave is right. The only thing that the Magnus would have over the Enticer LTi is esthetics and strength for the large magnum 30s. The DDC is around half the price, much lighter, shorter, changeable front caps for more suppression with smaller calibers, and more availability.

DDC has a great reputation for QC and customer service in the very few times I've heard it's been needed. TBAC is like a high end analog watch maker in the way that the quality is great and the name means something to a lot of people but they don't really do anything special functionally.

jzerfoss · Nov 17, 2024

carbonbased said:
A bit off topic, but what’s always confused me is with 556, why is the Ultra 7 the quietest of all current TBAC cans? (Shooter’s ear)

Not much quieter, but even if they’re all dead even it’d be weird. PDF attached or go to the link.

https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024.pdf

There must be some typos on that sheet or the 5.56 is a sbr gas gun... They have a 6.5 Ultra 5 listed at 138 SE dba and 30 cal Magnus listed at 139 SE dba. I own both of these cans and have shot them both on 223 bolt guns and they are dramatically different(Magnus being much much better).

carbonbased · Nov 17, 2024

jzerfoss said:
There must be some typos on that sheet or the 5.56 is a sbr gas gun... They have a 6.5 Ultra 5 listed at 138 SE dba and 30 cal Magnus listed at 139 SE dba. I own both of these cans and have shot them both on 223 bolt guns and they are dramatically different(Magnus being much much better).

Hmmmm @Zak Smith ?

spife7980 · Nov 17, 2024

jzerfoss said:
There must be some typos on that sheet or the 5.56 is a sbr gas gun... They have a 6.5 Ultra 5 listed at 138 SE dba and 30 cal Magnus listed at 139 SE dba. I own both of these cans and have shot them both on 223 bolt guns and they are dramatically different(Magnus being much much better).

The 5.56 is an sbr with a .070 port

FuhQ · Nov 17, 2024

jzerfoss said:
I own 3 TBACs including a Magnus and a DDC Enticer S TI. I love my Magnus but Dave is right. The only thing that the Magnus would have over the Enticer LTi is esthetics and strength for the large magnum 30s. The DDC is around half the price, much lighter, shorter, changeable front caps for more suppression with smaller calibers, and more availability.

DDC has a great reputation for QC and customer service in the very few times I've heard it's been needed. TBAC is like a high end analog watch maker in the way that the quality is great and the name means something to a lot of people but they don't really do anything special functionally.

jzerfoss · Nov 17, 2024

spife7980 said:
The 5.56 is an sbr with a .070 port, it says it right on the page.
View attachment 8548102

Yeah, I missed that earlier. Makes sense then.

carbonbased · Nov 17, 2024

spife7980 said:
The 5.56 is an sbr with a .070 port
View attachment 8548102

@spife7980 to the rescue! So the shooter’s ear numbers are high because there’s a lot of back pressure/sound coming out of the ejection port. And that’s why a massive suppressor doesn’t move the bar (downwards).

Thx for clearing that up!

Zak Smith · Nov 18, 2024

carbonbased said:
A bit off topic, but what’s always confused me is with 556, why is the Ultra 7 the quietest of all current TBAC cans? (Shooter’s ear)

Not much quieter, but even if they’re all dead even it’d be weird. PDF attached or go to the link.

https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024.pdf

mil-spec MK18 = port pop dominates

Zak Smith · Nov 18, 2024

FuhQ said:

With regard to the LTi vs. the Magnus, using the 2024 Summit data for 308, the mil-left and right positions are both dominated by the supersonic crack. That's why if you sort by Mil dbA Avg or ML dB or dBA or MR dB or dBA and look at the waves of any of the top about 10 cans, the SS crack at time just after approx 0.050 is the highest SPL. If you look at what happens after that, you see some differences. For example, if you sort by SE dBA and/or look at the SE graphs, you see that one of them has most of its wave significantly less than the SS crack and the other is louder at SE that the SS crack. So there's a little more comparison of large/quiet cans than just look at the ML/MR peak, which will always just show the SS crack. See FAQ #1 for more information on this https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2024/#FAQ

There are some spec/rating differences too, that might make a difference or might not. We made the Magnus line basically for magnums and 300 NM is nothing for it. We've shot the 375 cal RR versions extensively on 375 Swiss P and it works great.

For sure at its price the LTi is a great deal.

FuhQ · Nov 18, 2024

Zak Smith said:
With regard to the LTi vs. the Magnus, using the 2024 Summit data for 308, the mil-left and right positions are both dominated by the supersonic crack. That's why if you sort by Mil dbA Avg or ML dB or dBA or MR dB or dBA and look at the waves of any of the top about 10 cans, the SS crack at time just after approx 0.050 is the highest SPL. If you look at what happens after that, you see some differences. For example, if you sort by SE dBA and/or look at the SE graphs, you see that one of them has most of its wave significantly less than the SS crack and the other is louder at SE that the SS crack. So there's a little more comparison of large/quiet cans than just look at the ML/MR peak, which will always just show the SS crack. See FAQ #1 for more information on this https://thunderbeastarms.com/sound/summit2024/#FAQ

There are some spec/rating differences too, that might make a difference or might not. We made the Magnus line basically for magnums and 300 NM is nothing for it. We've shot the 375 cal RR versions extensively on 375 Swiss P and it works great.

For sure at its price the LTi is a great deal.

Yes, absolutely, but I was referring more to the precision build of the can, attention to details, and the bore runout being just as important as DB numbers and price. And, while I like all my cans, and they’re all great, and high-quality units, without question my TBACs are the nicest overall quality cans I own.

Zak Smith · Nov 18, 2024

FuhQ said:
Yes, absolutely, but I was referring more to the precision build of the can, attention to details, and the bore runout being just as important as DB numbers and price. And, while I like all my cans, and they’re all great, and high-quality units, without question my TBACs are the nicest overall quality cans I own.

Sorry, I was just responding to the thread in general, not your post in specific. I understood what you meant.

CritterCups · Nov 19, 2024

Zak Smith said:
Sorry, I was just responding to the thread in general, not your post in specific. I understood what you meant.

Hey there, I’m getting one of your 338 ultras rr soon. I just have a question, what would your thoughts be on having an adapter made so that it can shoot with the griffin armament ratchet lok end caps?
I don’t mean legal opinion and I realize it wouldn’t be warrantied if something happened if it was on there. I spoke to someone earlier so jm aware of the warranty thing.
I’m getting a small time but quality suppressor manufacture to make the adapter, do you foresee any technical issues in
One actually making the correct thread pitch
Two the retention of the adapter in the 338 ultra(is there a taper interface?) being secure?
Three what kind of db numbers to expect compared to a standard flat capped 338? Does the RR version have one less baffle that it would be less quiet? I could have the adapter made so that it’s a bit length, say 1.2 inches of space, so that the length is the same as it is with the RR. More volume usually means more suppression.
Thanks.

Zak Smith · Nov 19, 2024

The 338 Ultra RR is a full size 338 Ultra with the RR endcap added, so there is no deficit in baffles. The dB comparison is on this chart,
https://thunderbeastarms.com/img/Poster_2024_magnus.png check the .338 row on the left side of the chart for peak dbA.

The BA mount is secure for precision rifle shooting. If you need a secondary retention lock you can get it in the "SR" version.

I'm not touching the other issue. You might want to review the silencer part of 18 USC, and this ATF letter https://www.atf.gov/file/186521/download

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 20, 2024

The Magnus sucks in gas guns like most tbac cans. They have way too much back pressure. Awesome bolt gun cans and the tbac22 is the absolute shitnizzle.

And I say this as someone with a Magnus on a 16" Geissele super duty.

Baron23 · Nov 20, 2024

jabonra said:
I have read that 10db is perceived at the ear as twice as loud so 5db is nothing to scoff at. If the ounces dont matter save the eardrums!

Actually, its a logarithmic function and sound pressure doubles for ever 3db of increased volume.

Zak Smith · Nov 20, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
The Magnus sucks in gas guns like most tbac cans. They have way too much back pressure. Awesome bolt gun cans and the tbac22 is the absolute shitnizzle.

And I say this as someone with a Magnus on a 16" Geissele super duty.

A highly suppressing can will increase backpressure on a as gun, it's a trade off for decreased muzzle report. From our line typically a different can would be chosen for a gas gun, however, the overall report will generally sound quieter a few feet off the gun with the larger can.

I would also forward the opinion that a 16" with a gas system shorter than Intermediate is not going to be optimal for suppressed use, with a Rifle length being better.

The 16" SD has a midlenth +1 gas system-- longer than midlength but shorter than Intermediate. For 556, and in my opinion, 16"'s that are going to be shot unsuppressed only should be made with Intermediate, and if you want a really quiet well balanced suppressed 16", just go with rifle gas. The 16"/RLGS ones that I've put together also run unsuppressed just fine.

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 20, 2024

Zak Smith said:
A highly suppressing can will increase backpressure on a as gun, it's a trade off for decreased muzzle report. From our line typically a different can would be chosen for a gas gun, however, the overall report will generally sound quieter a few feet off the gun with the larger can.

I would also forward the opinion that a 16" with a gas system shorter than Intermediate is not going to be optimal for suppressed use, with a Rifle length being better.

The 16" SD has a midlenth +1 gas system-- longer than midlength but shorter than Intermediate. For 556, and in my opinion, 16"'s that are going to be shot unsuppressed only should be made with Intermediate, and if you want a really quiet well balanced suppressed 16", just go with rifle gas. The 16"/RLGS ones that I've put together also run unsuppressed just fine.

Absolutely. I wasn't knocking tbac just pointing out they aren't really designed around DI guns compared to some of the modern flow through designs that have their own compromises. TBAC cans function and cycle fine it's more of an issue with gas blowback.

st1650 · Nov 20, 2024

People are way overthinking this. If you’re using a highly suppressive can, especially a high volume one and plan to use it on a gas gun then stop being poor and build and tune a dedicated gasser to not have any blow back. It’s not 2005 anymore. There’s dozens of ways to get it done: gas port size, AGB, eztune gas tubes, KAK downward BCG, side charging uppers, anti gas charging handles, JP SCS with weights and spring kits, etc etc.

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