It looks like my Wheeler Fat Wrench has gone kaput.
Are Fixit Sticks still the preferred torque sensing tools or is there New Hotness ?
Are Fixit Sticks still the preferred torque sensing tools or is there New Hotness ?
Gunsmithing Torque Tools
- Thread starter CaptNemo
- Start date
Snap-on Store
There was someone here who thought owning this toy here constituted "flexing on the poors" in a vulgar, ostentatious manner...
But the circuitry and sensors are practically identical to those made in Taiwan and China.
Any old digital torque wrench with the appropriate range from Amazon.com will do fine.
Most torque settings for our firearms aren't "Precision" or "Aerospace Grade" as bubba would have you believe.
We're not dealing with automotive components where the safety of your "Family, Friends, and Loved Ones" and many others are really biblically tantamount and taken seriously.
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If it was me, I'd get another FAT Wrench, my personal one has been reliable for years and if it does go tits up one day then I'd go get another one probably. I have Fix It Sticks and Borka too, owned Seekonk wrenches at one point also but the FAT Wrench isn't a bad thing to have at the bench, none of my stuff has fallen off the gun because of it.
Fixit Sticks win (for me) in the ease of use category, at least if you buy the preset torque attachments. They also sell a non-clicking 0-65 in/lbs general attachment that is a bit less accurate but works fine.
I also own a Wheeler and I dropped it. Seems to have affected it (not surprising and not it’s fault) as it no longer tightens close to my fixit sticks. I didn’t like always having to adjust it vs just grabbing the appropriate fixit preset.
Of course, the above example might just mean my fixit sticks are all too tight?
Anyway, it appears to me that fixit sticks’ accuracy are close enough. More expensive units are probably going to be more accurate but for firearms use it doesn’t seem to matter (but still might).
My guess is the issue would be more well known if there was a systematic over-tightening or under-tightening happening. But, that might be not a good assumption? Who knows? Not me.
I also own a Wheeler and I dropped it. Seems to have affected it (not surprising and not it’s fault) as it no longer tightens close to my fixit sticks. I didn’t like always having to adjust it vs just grabbing the appropriate fixit preset.
Of course, the above example might just mean my fixit sticks are all too tight?
Anyway, it appears to me that fixit sticks’ accuracy are close enough. More expensive units are probably going to be more accurate but for firearms use it doesn’t seem to matter (but still might).
My guess is the issue would be more well known if there was a systematic over-tightening or under-tightening happening. But, that might be not a good assumption? Who knows? Not me.
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Stuff falling off isn't as much of a concern but twisting the treads out of an alloy part or snapping off a fastener is a concern.
I had a Fix It Sticks bit lock up and would start overtightening fasteners. FIS took care of it but stuff can happen to any brand.
Yep. Haven’t had that happen yet.
But if it does happen, I’m sure the gods will issue the decree exactly when I’m setting up my first TT 7-35 or some shit like that lol
Dramatization
[Man walks into his gun room. Speaks to himself]
MAN: “La la la, so excited to use my new TT. Let’s mount that scope up with my fixit sticks!”
FX SOUNDS: < crush crush crush >
MAN: …!
Something like that almost happened to me haha. I was trying to torque ring cap screws to like 20 in/lbs or something so I'm turning the bit and the dial isn't moving and I'm turning some more and it's getting tighter but it was still reading like 10 in/lbs so at that point I figured something's not right. Fix It Sticks had great CS though, couldn't have been nicer getting me a new driver out fast.
Fix-It's are pretty handy but not in the range or configured for muzzle devices and castle nuts ; for the later I use the old school Craftsman click style.
Bite the bullet. I’m a cheapskate. My wife “bought” me this set for my birthday. (I ordered on my credit card, she approved) this is one of those cases where I have zero buyers remorse and a lifetime tool. I own other torque tools but this one goes to the range and everywhere else. Simply freakin amazing and one of the best values for the money spent.
I use the Borka!
By way of it’s design, it can not break!!!
On wheel nuts we use a digital Snap-On because the lever arm on the Borka is not long enough.
-Richard
By way of it’s design, it can not break!!!
On wheel nuts we use a digital Snap-On because the lever arm on the Borka is not long enough.
-Richard
That’s not true at all and tests have proven it. The all on one is more accurate and consistent and the limiters. It also costs a whole hell of a lot less money than buying every limiter you need. It’s a no brainer.
I have several fat wrenches. Even got one for free from a member here who was upgrading
Also using fix it sticks. I got an all in one kit from a member in a package deal here and carry that in my backpack. Then I have a 60 in lbs limiter for my AI barrel swaps and just purchased a 140 in one for my LMT MWS
There was a test done a while back using most of the torque tools still used today.
www.snipershide.com
Also using fix it sticks. I got an all in one kit from a member in a package deal here and carry that in my backpack. Then I have a 60 in lbs limiter for my AI barrel swaps and just purchased a 140 in one for my LMT MWS
There was a test done a while back using most of the torque tools still used today.
Torque Wrench Shootout: Reviews + Tests
As I mentioned in this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/torque-wrench-reviews.7136523/ , the torque wrench I’ve been using for the past seven years was stolen. Since I needed to replace it, I decided to grab a few different options and test them to see which one I liked the...
www.snipershide.com
I recently watched a few videos of independent testing on several common 1/2” torque wrenches. Snap-On faired the best but was followed very closely by several made in Chyna from Dewalt to a Harbor Freight brand, Icon. Granted it was a small sample size in these tests. I was buying for lug nuts so not an exact science.View attachment 8550478
Snap-on Store
shop.snapon.com
There was someone here who thought owning this toy here constituted "flexing on the poors" in a vulgar, ostentatious manner...
But the circuitry and sensors are practically identical to those made in Taiwan and China.
Any old digital torque wrench with the appropriate range from Amazon.com will do fine.
Most torque settings for our firearms aren't "Precision" or "Aerospace Grade" as bubba would have you believe.
We're not dealing with automotive components where the safety of your "Family, Friends, and Loved Ones" and many others are really biblically tantamount and taken seriously.
You may be right about some tests. I have no idea. Please link to them.
I was just going off Fix It Sticks own descriptions.
All in one (reg and mini) at +/- 10%
Large and small preset ones at +/- 6% (except the 140 in/lb, which at +/- 10%)
I have used fix it and borka since each came out. Just buy the full fix it stock kit. It will do everything you need to. Spending stupid money on snap on shit is literally retarded.
Post #15 above links to the torque wrench testing that a member did here and in that are comparisons of the FIS limiters and All In One. In that test, specifically posts #26 and #35 of the linked thread, the All In One had significantly less variation than the limiters, well under their advertised 10%.
That’s a pretty cool link
. I must have read that when it was new as I have reactions in it, but I forgot about it.@redneckbmxer24 and @Trigger Monkey , the fellow conducting the test apparently only used one sample of each torque device, right? Except for the 15 in/ibs FIS model, which failed the test, but its replacement was exceeding accurate (under 1%).
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-shootout-reviews-tests.7137138/post-10436516
So taking the replacement into consideration, the two preset models tested at 1.02% (55) and 0.64% (replacement 15). The all in one FIS tested at 3.43%. These are all averages.
I’m no engineer, so I don’t know if saying the preset models he tested were about 3x more accurate is valid. Probably not. But there you have it…the preset FIS tested out to be more accurate than the all-in-one FIS. (bolded for the TL;DR dudes, not to beat chests etc)
Going back to sample size: Just using one sample of the tool gives us some data, but who knows? Maybe there is wild inconsistency in the FIS preset (or Brand X) models? Or not?
The tester guy seems well-meaning, but later on he got in a fight with @E. Bryant , who is someone I trust.
Oddly, the tester’s Borka units all tested very poorly but there was no resolution? Even thought the inventor chimed in to help? Maybe I missed something. Maybe the guy just had a bad day.
I don’t own the Borka as the FIS preset models seem much more user friendly. In fact, I feel the preset FIS blow their all-in-one models out of the water in this regard, especially at higher torque levels. I own the all-in-one too, btw, and agree with others that this style definitely has some advantages, but I’m willing to throw the dice with the preset models.
Some torque test channel had a nice series of tests. One test showed that you must go slow and push consistently with all torque devices, even with preset clickers. Maybe especially with preset clickers.
But big props to that tester fella for taking the time to test the stuff for us.
Anyway, thanks @hafejd30 for posting that link and for @Trigger Monkey for pointing it out.
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Anecdotally, shit tons of people use Fix It Sticks all in one torque driver and haven’t reported a bunch of problems on here that I’ve seen, myself included. My first one did start having the reference line reset to around 3-5 instead of 0. They replaced it quickly and no further issues. You’re kinda guessing anyway from 15-25 because there’s no reference lines in between.
There isn't. It's not an aerospace application. It's degrees of autism arguing about a 1 or 10% repeatability when neither have any bearing on putting rounds down range. The actual range of effectiveness for torque values in firearm applications is multiples...not fractions.
The all in one is different but similar in the way it works to a beam style torque wrench which is by far the most consistent and accurate type of torque wrench. That’s why it works so well.
The Borkas inconsistency is a product of how it works and is more an issue of the user being able to consistently use it by design, but they will change over time too. I used the Borka for a long time as a field kit as I didn’t want to have to have $1000 in fix it sticks adaptors to do everything I needed to do (this was long before the all in one), but there was never a doubt in my mind that it wasn’t very consistent. Consistent enough probably, but when the all in one is super accurate, the most cost effective, and the most compact kit on the market there’s really no reason to buy anything else.
I’ve used them all and have about $3K worth of snap on and CDI (snap ons brand that makes all their torque tools) torque wrenches in my tool box including two inch pound wrenches I used to use for firearm applications. It’s rare that I use anything but the all in one. In fact I don’t think I had used either in a couple years for firearms until I recently got a M77 that needs the front bolt torqued to 95inlbs and the all in one won’t do.
The Borkas inconsistency is a product of how it works and is more an issue of the user being able to consistently use it by design, but they will change over time too. I used the Borka for a long time as a field kit as I didn’t want to have to have $1000 in fix it sticks adaptors to do everything I needed to do (this was long before the all in one), but there was never a doubt in my mind that it wasn’t very consistent. Consistent enough probably, but when the all in one is super accurate, the most cost effective, and the most compact kit on the market there’s really no reason to buy anything else.
I’ve used them all and have about $3K worth of snap on and CDI (snap ons brand that makes all their torque tools) torque wrenches in my tool box including two inch pound wrenches I used to use for firearm applications. It’s rare that I use anything but the all in one. In fact I don’t think I had used either in a couple years for firearms until I recently got a M77 that needs the front bolt torqued to 95inlbs and the all in one won’t do.
The latest Snap On digital 1/4 inch torque wrench adjusts in .1 in/lb increments.
Old school dials and the all-in-1 show continuous force measurement, which means as you approach X target value, you can see if anything odd is going on. Even if your X value is off by 3-4% more or less, this almost 100% will not result in a total thread failure.
Clickers and limiters train the end user like a monkey to "keep pushing" until "you feel something happen"...which means keep pushing until you the threads give out if the clicker/limiter is broken or defective...
Clickers and limiters train the end user like a monkey to "keep pushing" until "you feel something happen"...which means keep pushing until you the threads give out if the clicker/limiter is broken or defective...
I like to go until I hear a pop, feel the threads give out or feel the scope tube start to crush inOld school dials and the all-in-1 show continuous force measurement, which means as you approach X target value, you can see if anything odd is going on. Even if your X value is off by 3-4% more or less, this almost 100% will not result in a total thread failure.
Clickers and limiters train the end user like a monkey to "keep pushing" until "you feel something happen"...which means keep pushing until you the threads give out if the clicker/limiter is broken or defective...
Then I back off a 1/4 turn
That way I know I’m right on the upper edge
Can’t be to careful. Lots of idiots out there
Here’s my impact that I use on everything.I like to go until I hear a pop, feel the threads give out or feel the scope tube start to crush in
Then I back off a 1/4 turn
That way I know I’m right on the upper edge
Can’t be to careful. Lots of idiots out there
I dunno, are my scopes supposed to moan?
I'm very happy with my Fix-it-sticks torque limiter kit (individual limiters and not the All-in-ones).
I'd highly recommend them to anybody.
I'd highly recommend them to anybody.
I like the vortex torque driver tool over the fat wrench by a good bit, but if money isn't a factor the fix it sticks are pretty sweet.
I’ve always assumed that the Borka Tool was limited in its accuracy to the user. I think I do a fairly good job of operating it properly but after reading the outstanding reviews of the fix it sticks all in one, I may add a set of those limiters to my Borka kit for the ultimate range setup.
This is what I do. I love some of the Borka tools, but I love some of the FIS tools as well. My kit has both.
I agree. This is a bunch of mental masturbation for the most part. Not convinced the majority of uses need to be as precise as folks are getting at.
Torque values for firearms is not the same as torque values for equipment such as airplanes and other moving equipment where a failure can have disastrous consequences.
But that said, rigorous use of torque wrenches requires certification of the equipment periodically.
The Borka being a fixed moment arm requires none.
I also have a CDI because it is Snap On sold product but I never use it.
My digital Snap On is used for torquing my wheels before every Track Session and here proper torque is mandatory. The digital Snap-On does not require, setting to zero between uses.
But it is very expensive.
-Richard
BTW I am an Engineer!
But that said, rigorous use of torque wrenches requires certification of the equipment periodically.
The Borka being a fixed moment arm requires none.
I also have a CDI because it is Snap On sold product but I never use it.
My digital Snap On is used for torquing my wheels before every Track Session and here proper torque is mandatory. The digital Snap-On does not require, setting to zero between uses.
But it is very expensive.
-Richard
BTW I am an Engineer!
It seems that Wheeler Tools has some limiters similar to Fix-It Sticks. Using the code TGCBF will get you an additional 15% off the 25% off Black Friday sale.
Fix-It Sticks also have a Black Friday sale running...
Fix-It Sticks also have a Black Friday sale running...
I like the idea of the "all in one" torque driver. I purchased one from Silca to keep in my hydration pack when I go mountain biking. But I found that it was hard to use because of my aging eyes and needing to use it on bolts that were hard to see if you, or in my case the bike, is not in the right position. Also the graduation markings on the Silca were too close together. Perhaps this is not an issue with the Fix-It stick driver.
If you get one just keep in mind, you have to able to see the graduations while using it. There will be times when you'll wish you had the click type torque screw driver/wrench/limiter.
If you get one just keep in mind, you have to able to see the graduations while using it. There will be times when you'll wish you had the click type torque screw driver/wrench/limiter.
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