SPR Optic

NJRaised · Nov 21, 2024

Putting together a new SPR-ish rifle. 18” rifle gas, 223. Will be primarily built as a “duty” type rifle, but also shot occasionally for some gas gun matches.

I’ve been eyeing the NF NX8 2.5-20 F1. At the price I’m paying for this optic, are there any better options at this price point? I’ve heard mixed reviews on the NX8.

hafejd30 · Nov 21, 2024

A used 4-16 NF ATACR Mil XT would be my choice for around $1800-$2000

Ikeman83 · Nov 21, 2024

You're 60 days out from Shot Show. Might make sense to wait.

kriller134 · Nov 22, 2024

I’m running a 2.5-20 mil xt on my seekins. I’m liking it a lot.

owtlaw · Nov 22, 2024

March 1-10 or a 1.5-15. Dual focal plane is what mine wears.

dms416 · Nov 22, 2024

Ikeman83 said:
You're 60 days out from Shot Show. Might make sense to wait.

...If you're cool with waiting AT LEAST 90* days after that to get a sniff of whatever debuts at SHOT.

*subject to change, may be up to 6 years to NEVER.

Bird in the hand, man....bird in the hand.

Todc · Nov 22, 2024

hafejd30 said:
A used 4-16 NF ATACR Mil XT would be my choice for around $1800-$2000

This is what I run. Great choice.

kthomas · Nov 22, 2024

I wouldn't sleep on Steiner.

The new H6 series seems to pack some nice features in a compact scope, with a mag range suited for SPR work.

T6 as well, though it's a bit chunkier on the weight side.

Leupold Mk5HD series is another.

RTH1800 · Nov 22, 2024

1-8 NF? 2.5-10 NF?

NHPiper · Nov 22, 2024

Big fan of the Mk5 3.6-18 with an RMR on top. highly recommend the T3 reticle for gas guns.

skatz11 · Nov 22, 2024

Both my gas guns (223 and 308) have MK5 3.6-18’s. Plenty of magnification and good size/weight.

Both of my scores are the illuminated TMR. If I were buying new today I’d get the PR2 reticle.

NHPiper · Nov 22, 2024

I will say I wish I had gone illuminated. When using clip ons and zoomed way out, you can lose a black reticle.

Jojo417 · Nov 22, 2024

Bushnell dmr3, Steiner t6 or Zeiss s3 4-25.

I’ve had a nx8 and mk5hd. I wasn’t a fan. The nx8 eyebox is very tight, and it tunnels bad. The glass in the mk5 isn’t great for the price, and the image looking through the scope is extremely small compared to similar optics.

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 22, 2024

NJRaised said:
Putting together a new SPR-ish rifle. 18” rifle gas, 223. Will be primarily built as a “duty” type rifle, but also shot occasionally for some gas gun matches.

I’ve been eyeing the NF NX8 2.5-20 F1. At the price I’m paying for this optic, are there any better options at this price point? I’ve heard mixed reviews on the NX8.

Mk4hd 6-24. No need to under glass it.. better glass than NF better turrets better reticles and ffp.

Glassaholic · Nov 22, 2024

NJRaised said:
Putting together a new SPR-ish rifle. 18” rifle gas, 223. Will be primarily built as a “duty” type rifle, but also shot occasionally for some gas gun matches.

I’ve been eyeing the NF NX8 2.5-20 F1. At the price I’m paying for this optic, are there any better options at this price point? I’ve heard mixed reviews on the NX8.

New NX8 glass is really nice, turrets are meh, illumination outstanding and 2.5-20 is somewhat finicky but not horribly so. The new Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 might be worth checking out and yes, the ATACR 4-16x42 is another outstanding option.

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 22, 2024

Nx8 glass is dog shit what are you smoking? Horrible picture with flat DOF for an optic that cost that much. You need to do some more theorizing.

CK1.0 · Nov 23, 2024

I've been looking at the Steiner T6Xi 2.5-15x50 SCR for throwing on an 18" DMR. I dig their locking turret design, german Schott glass that is supposed to be pretty dang good (better than an NX8), plus they're less than $1000 if you're an Expertvoice member (a little over a $1000 most places if you're not, so still not too bad).

I wouldn't put a Leupold on a Nerf gun these days due to all the shitty QC issues I had with 3 different Mak4HDs and having to deal with their slow-ass CS.

TimResin · Nov 23, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
Nx8 glass is dog shit what are you smoking? Horrible picture with flat DOF for an optic that cost that much. You need to do some more theorizing.

lol maybe when they first came out there was a few issues.

YotaEer · Nov 23, 2024

Element nexus gen 2 4-25x

mrtoyz · Nov 23, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
Nx8 glass is dog shit what are you smoking? Horrible picture with flat DOF for an optic that cost that much. You need to do some more theorizing.

You may want to do some theorizing yourself. Suggest you try “how not to be an ass hat”.
Just sayin

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 24, 2024

TimResin said:
lol maybe when they first came out there was a few issues.

No. It's a design issue. You can't put that much magnification into that small of a package with that erector range without serious sacrifices. If they could do it without the downsides they could sell them for $4000 and they would be the flagship of Night force.

Shoot them side by side with anything in the same price range and it's clear you are giving up optical performance for weight and magnification range. Shoot it side by side with higher tier optics and its game over.

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 24, 2024

CK1.0 said:
I've been looking at the Steiner T6Xi 2.5-15x50 SCR for throwing on an 18" DMR. I dig their locking turret design, german Schott glass that is supposed to be pretty dang good (better than an NX8), plus they're less than $1000 if you're an Expertvoice member (a little over a $1000 most places if you're not, so still not too bad).

I wouldn't put a Leupold on a Nerf gun these days due to all the shitty QC issues I had with 3 different Mak4HDs and having to deal with their slow-ass CS.

If you think Leupold has bad customer service.....wait until you deal with Beretta and their companies. They are best described as non existent. Those of us who lived through the burris/steiner T5X rollout can attest. One of the last brands to gamble on.

CK1.0 · Nov 24, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
If you think Leupold has bad customer service.....wait until you deal with Beretta and their companies. They are best described as non existent. Those of us who lived through the burris/steiner T5X rollout can attest. One of the last brands to gamble on.

No experience there. The only Steiner product I've ever had is a P4Xi 1-4 LPVO I got like ~10 years ago and it's been solid (and costs more now than it did back then).

I'm weary of bad CS now though for sure... it's always something to consider when buying something as pricey and relatively fragile as an optic IMO. These days I'm either Vortex Razor series or ZCO only.

CK1.0 · Nov 24, 2024

On second thought, for the OP, maybe go Razor Gen2 3-18x50.

Sure, it’s a fat pig, but better than an NX8 and basically bombproof, and if you do manage to hurt it or it breaks, Vortex will have it back to you in a week or so with some stickers and a new hat lol.

stanley_white · Nov 24, 2024

The SPR 5.56mm optic use case fascinates me.

Is my goal target ID?

Is my goal to spot impacts and correct my hold if I miss?

Is my goal both?

At what ranges do I need to engage and how does this drive the magnification range and / or the need for a secondary sighting system?

Blah blah etc.

The entire thing seems like so much of a compromise in so many directions that I am considering selling my SPR build unfired.

I should have done more research before purchasing.

-Stan

CK1.0 · Nov 24, 2024

stanley_white said:
The SPR 5.56mm optic use case fascinates me.

Is my goal target ID?

Is my goal to spot impacts and correct my hold if I miss?

Is my goal both?

At what ranges do I need to engage and how does this drive the magnification range and / or the need for a secondary sighting system?

Blah blah etc.

The entire thing seems like so much of a compromise in so many directions that I am considering selling my SPR build unfired.

I should have done more research before purchasing.

-Stan

IMHO, the main conundrum with putting an SPR/DMR together is ammo… if you’re planning to shoot 77gn HPBT stuff almost exclusively, then you’re looking at ~$1 a pull (and which is why every time I go to finish mine I just end up buying more components for my 6mm bolt gun instead lol).

They’re fun though out to 750 yards or so as something to play with while your bolt-gun is cooling off (at least that’s always been my planned use case).

Ikeman83 · Nov 24, 2024

stanley_white said:
The SPR 5.56mm optic use case fascinates me.

Is my goal target ID?

Is my goal to spot impacts and correct my hold if I miss?

Is my goal both?

At what ranges do I need to engage and how does this drive the magnification range and / or the need for a secondary sighting system?

Blah blah etc.

The entire thing seems like so much of a compromise in so many directions that I am considering selling my SPR build unfired.

I should have done more research before purchasing.

-Stan

The goal was to be able to send a guy out with an accurized, scoped AR in a team of other guys with ARs at a time when virtually all ARs used 3.5x ACOGs or red dots. This allowed for shared ammo, while also giving additional range/precision to the group.

Today's 6x and 8x erector scopes give you a lot more options while keeping the same low end mag the original was built with.

stanley_white · Nov 24, 2024

CK1.0 said:
IMHO, the main conundrum with putting an SPR/DMR together is ammo… if you’re planning to shoot 77gn HPBT stuff almost exclusively, then you’re looking at ~$1 a pull (and which is why every time I go to finish mine I just end up buying more components for my 6mm bolt gun instead lol).

They’re fun though out to 750 yards or so as something to play with while your bolt-gun is cooling off (at least that’s always been my planned use case).

It is mentally hard for me to abandon the requirement to be able to spot impacts.

If I am trying to do this, even with a heavy-for-caliber 5.56mm bullet, I might get away with a 2-10x scope with easy to see targets and good dirt behind them, but if this isn’t the scenario than I am guessing when I miss.

This impact spotting desire drives the requirement for more magnification which drives the requirement for a secondary sighting system for close range and it ends up being a domino effect of optics purchases to overcome the physics-based fact that light bullets are harder to spot impacts for in imperfect conditions.

So for me it comes down to abandon the desire to spot impacts (likely not happening) or divest of tiny bullet shooting rifles (likely happening).

-Stan

stanley_white · Nov 24, 2024

Ikeman83 said:
The goal was to be able to send a guy out with an accurized, scoped AR in a team of other guys with ARs at a time when virtually all ARs used 3.5x ACOGs or red dots. This allowed for shared ammo, while also giving additional range/precision to the group.

Today's 6x and 8x erector scopes give you a lot more options while keeping the same low end mag the original was built with.

Thank you.

That is a good military goal, though likely not the context of many on this website (myself included).

-Stan

CK1.0 · Nov 24, 2024

Yeah, in a military role, they make a lot of sense, but for fun… IDK, maybe not so much.

It isn’t that hard to spot impacts within say 500-750 yards with them if the conditions are favorable (calm), and it is good practice doing it with a relatively light rifle when you’re used to a 20+lb PRS-style rig. But again, they don’t really perform at distance unless using heavier projectiles… and that stuff costs about as much to shoot as what I feed my bolt-gun that’s minute-of-pineapple at 1200 yards so…

stanley_white · Nov 24, 2024

CK1.0 said:
Yeah, in a military role, they make a lot of sense, but for fun… IDK, maybe not so much.

It isn’t that hard to spot impacts within say 500-750 yards with them if the conditions are favorable (calm), and it is good practice doing it with a relatively light rifle when you’re used to a 20+lb PRS-style rig. But again, they don’t really perform at distance unless using heavier projectiles… and that stuff costs about as much to shoot as what I feed my bolt-gun that’s minute-of-pineapple at 1200 yards so…

Agreed.

The conclusion I keep arriving at for precision fire in a semi-automatic context is SPR if part of a team, DMR with a close range secondary sighting system for an individual.

My fault I crossed the streams and created a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man-sized debate in my head.

-Stan

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 24, 2024

CK1.0 said:
No experience there. The only Steiner product I've ever had is a P4Xi 1-4 LPVO I got like ~10 years ago and it's been solid (and costs more now than it did back then).

I'm weary of bad CS now though for sure... it's always something to consider when buying something as pricey and relatively fragile as an optic IMO. These days I'm either Vortex Razor series or ZCO only.

Add TT / Armament to that list. They pay for it round trip with a very fast turn around time, which is impressive considering it has to go through US/CA customs.

DeathBeforeDismount · Nov 24, 2024

Ikeman83 said:
The goal was to be able to send a guy out with an accurized, scoped AR in a team of other guys with ARs at a time when virtually all ARs used 3.5x ACOGs or red dots. This allowed for shared ammo, while also giving additional range/precision to the group.

Today's 6x and 8x erector scopes give you a lot more options while keeping the same low end mag the original was built with.

But they don't. Because of reticle design in a FFP, it makes one end of the erector almost useless. High Erector optics look good on paper, but in practice they always fall short in a couple areas. No one is using an NX8 2-20 on 2x power or even 5x.

Most people would be better off with an optic that operates in the range they plan to shoot. Like for PRS, A 12-30 Power optic would be PERFECT. It would most likely be optically superior as it has less than a 3x erector, focusing on getting the absolute best picture, color, DOF and other optical characteristics.

For hunting something from say 5-20 is about perfect. You never need less and will rarely need more, while still having enough magnification to make zeroing easy.

Ikeman83 · Nov 24, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
But they don't. Because of reticle design in a FFP, it makes one end of the erector almost useless. High Erector optics look good on paper, but in practice they always fall short in a couple areas. No one is using an NX8 2-20 on 2x power or even 5x.

Most people would be better off with an optic that operates in the range they plan to shoot. Like for PRS, A 12-30 Power optic would be PERFECT. It would most likely be optically superior as it has less than a 3x erector, focusing on getting the absolute best picture, color, DOF and other optical characteristics.

For hunting something from say 5-20 is about perfect. You never need less and will rarely need more, while still having enough magnification to make zeroing easy.

Depends on your optic and what you're willing to spend. Illumination certainly solves a lot of low end mag reticle issues. Certainly unusable for holds, but then, if you're trying to do holds at sub 4x you're wrong. Even using a 5x erector is a big improvement over the tech available 20 years ago

Don't think anyone is building an SPR to hunt with.

xxflyingturtlexx · Nov 24, 2024

stanley_white said:
The SPR 5.56mm optic use case fascinates me.

Is my goal target ID?

Is my goal to spot impacts and correct my hold if I miss?

Is my goal both?

At what ranges do I need to engage and how does this drive the magnification range and / or the need for a secondary sighting system?

Blah blah etc.

The entire thing seems like so much of a compromise in so many directions that I am considering selling my SPR build unfired.

I should have done more research before purchasing.

-Stan

Man i totally get what you are saying…

The whole premise of spr gpr blah blah is a fetish of consumerism…

Nx8 2.5-20 is disgrace to NF honestly.

TimResin · Nov 24, 2024

well I was gonna do a 2.5 - 20 or 4-16 honestly. but why does the 4-16 have so little elevation

xxflyingturtlexx · Nov 24, 2024

TimResin said:
well I was gonna do a 2.5 - 20 or 4-16 honestly. but why does the 4-16 have so little elevation

Get a 20moa mount if you need more elavation

Sh33pdog · Nov 25, 2024

stanley_white said:
Thank you.

That is a good military goal, though likely not the context of many on this website (myself included).

-Stan

I think it depends highly on where you primarily want to use your AR. If I lived near a city, a 14.5 with a LPVO or Red dot, would probably be fine. But if you live out in open country where potential threats can be much further, why wouldn't you want a better optic, and usually longer barrel to increase your hit chances? Even with 55gr XM193, I can get consistent hits out to 600yds with my SWFA 3-9 and 18" "SPR" build.

LRRPF52 · Nov 25, 2024

Since you’re in New Jersey, I would look at what the more experienced Ridgeline Defense guys are using in their courses.

I’m re-thinking some of what I’ve been using for optics, which is basically reenforcing what I’ve found through experience I really like and seems to make sense.

A big one for me is a combination of glass clarity and field of view.

Especially for a duty rifle, FOV and clarity mean a lot.

Durability/reliability are given baselines on a gas gun.

For quick intervention shots, there likely is no time to dial, so I do like trees.

Longer shots in the LE world could very well mean things along an interstate where you have overpass range observing down the highway. Even in more remote, heavily-wooded regions of the Country, that could mean really long shots.

It also brings up a discussion about caliber, since 5.56 is really riding the struggle bus as you push out.

I saw some really refreshing discussions about this recently from older guys who are still in, actively working towards solutions in this space. Not the usual YouTube millennial click-chasers with sponsors.

steve123 · Nov 26, 2024

Yeah I'd wait til next year because I bet some new MPVO's will be out.

However my Athlon Helos G2 DMR 2-12x42 in MIL is my #1 pick so far if not needing 1x. I like it better in some ways more than my March DFP 1-10 shorty. No problems at all with my HG2 in the last 3 years.

toopoorformore · Dec 13, 2024

I’m in the same boat. Waiting to see what SHOT has coming. I’m surprised Vortex hasn’t released a 3-18 in their gen 3 razor lineup…maybe didn’t feel there was a need with the LHT?

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