Which Flame Annealer?

Kickin45 · Wednesday at 10:14 AM

Time to start annealing my large collection of brass.
Vertical standing auto feed is the course I’ve decided on. Between these 3, I could really use some input from you guys that have used one or all. They all 3 seem to be very similar, so it comes down to ease of use and precision.

Burstfire g2
Ugly
Annealeez

zmen · Wednesday at 11:04 AM

I have probably put a couple thousand rounds through my Burstfire, Honestly for the money spent I really like it and its super easy to use. I do anneal a couple different cartridges tho and it can be annoying to having to adjust where the flame hits the case, That would be my only compliant and I think the only way to get around that would be getting the Annealing Made perfect machine but that was a little out of the budget for myself.

jetjock07 · Wednesday at 12:02 PM

Don’t forget the EP annealer

jbuck88 · Wednesday at 12:21 PM

I had a burstfire and upgraded to a AMP. Zero complaints with the burst fire. I've recommended them to friends and had no trouble with adjusting the flame for each cartridge.

I actually still use the burstfire for cartridges I don't have setup on the AMP.

Kickin45 · Wednesday at 12:34 PM

jetjock07 said:
Don’t forget the EP annealer

No auto feed

jetjock07 · Wednesday at 12:56 PM

Kickin45 said:
No auto feed

Got to sit there anyways. An annealer isn’t something to set and forget especially a flame annealer. Just as fast.

jbuck88 · Wednesday at 12:57 PM

There is a difference between sitting there keeping an eye on it and feeding it every few seconds.

Kickin45 · Wednesday at 1:02 PM

I can be doing other things while it’s auto feeding.

kilizyrag · Wednesday at 1:48 PM

RegionRat · Wednesday at 2:20 PM

Just food for thought... Whichever one you pick, when you have time to study the torch and the gas bottles, those upgrades are worth it.

The biggest challenge to rookies who don't have much time with torch skills and metalworking is to "set the process". The quality of the torch valve and the hardware used to "aim" it and adjust the flame improves the workmanship with less frustration. Some kits come with a decent valve and hardware, some don't.

A bigger bottle with a good regulator helps with the stability of the flame over time. YMMV

marchboom · Wednesday at 4:22 PM

My Ugly annealer works great. Quality materials and workmanship.

Edsel · Wednesday at 4:29 PM

Giraud Annealing Machine Modifications

I just wanted to summarize what I read from this thread, and wanted to ask for clarifications in case I misunderstood something: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/219960-giraud-annealing-machine-observations.html To hook up a Propane Regulator to the smaller Throwaway...

www.snipershide.com

Get the cheapest one around and mod it

I do regret spending all that money on it.

Ultimately, it’s still a crude piece of machinery.

texastonk · Wednesday at 5:04 PM

Here ya go. All you'll need.

Reloading Equipment - Annealeez 3.0 w/Brass Tray

Works great and is $225 shipped to your door (lower 48) Brass pictured in the tray and propane tank not included.

www.snipershide.com

Herb Stoner · Wednesday at 10:02 PM

Look at the Giraud as well. Great flame annealer with very dependable feed. I let it run while I do other things.

Went to an AMP for more precision stuff but still break out the Giraud occasionally for gas gun brass.

Jmkjr87 · Friday at 9:01 PM

Ep entergrations annealer. Cheap and works great. I think I paid less than 200 bucks for it and it does the same thing as all the other flame annealers for alot lest money. He fully supports his product with spare parts, I had the reostat act up and it was like 15 bucks shipped to my house. No auto feed though

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T08:14:35-0500

None. They don’t work

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T09:48:37-0500

Maurygold said:
None. They don’t work

Fool

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T10:00:26-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
Fool

Maybe not

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T10:01:46-0500

Maurygold said:
Maybe not

View attachment 8552267 View attachment 8552268

Don't care, didn't look at your pictures

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T10:02:49-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
Don't care, didn't look at your pictures

Head in the sand is the only attitude that leads to using a flame annealer so that’s befitting.

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T10:05:20-0500

Maurygold said:
Head in the sand is the only attitude that leads to using a flame annealer so that’s befitting.

No, not everybody wants to spend 2 grand for a amp, you know they got bills a such

03machstock · 2024-11-23T10:28:16-0500

I have the Annealeez and iv been happy with it for the money I spent on it. I’m not ready to jump into an amp, so it does what I need for now.

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T10:35:46-0500

I shot all those with zero annealer. Don’t let these people convince you you need to anneal but especially that flame annealing does anything beneficial.

zmen · 2024-11-23T11:23:58-0500

Maurygold said:
I shot all those with zero annealer. Don’t let these people convince you you need to anneal but especially that flame annealing does anything beneficial.

It’s okay to admit you didn’t pass 6th grade science class to know why people anneal, has nothing to do with group size.

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T11:25:22-0500

Maurygold said:
I shot all those with zero annealer. Don’t let these people convince you you need to anneal but especially that flame annealing does anything beneficial.

Wow now your opinion is official discarded

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T11:30:32-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
Wow now your opinion is official discarded

It’s funny when I better than those that anneal and they still discount it

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T11:31:46-0500

zmen said:
It’s okay to admit you didn’t pass 6th grade science class to know why people anneal, has nothing to do with group size.

It does have zero impact on accuracy. Thanks for agreeing

zmen · 2024-11-23T12:18:25-0500

Maurygold said:
It does have zero impact on accuracy. Thanks for agreeing

I kinda get where you’re coming from now with showing your groups saying annealing does not effect group size. Which to me is correct and I’ll stand on that hill all day. In my head I figured most knew annealing has no effect on group and we just do it to pro long the life of the brass which I do trust in that.

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T12:23:39-0500

zmen said:
I kinda get where you’re coming from now with showing your groups saying annealing does not effect group size. Which to me is correct and I’ll stand on that hill all day. In my head I figured most knew annealing has no effect on group and we just do it to pro long the life of the brass which I do trust in that.

I will 100% agree on longevity increase for annealing. I am hesitant to believe a torch can consistently achieve that point but do 100% believe using an amp will extend brass life.

My interactions have led me to many people who believe annealing will increase accuracy and it’s for that reason I believe it can do more harm than good and the amount of is unnecessary (unless you’re a very high volume shooter, like 3k+ rounds. A year)

straightshooter1 · 2024-11-23T12:37:00-0500

Maurygold said:
I shot all those with zero annealer. Don’t let these people convince you you need to anneal but especially that flame annealing does anything beneficial.

OK

But at least you should tell the WHOLE story. Like, was this done with an off the shelf factory rifle or not? If not, was it a custom rifle and what are the chamber specs? Barrel details? What brass was used and how many firings on them. What's your brass prep? Cartridge specs? Seating to touch or jam?

Things can be done where annealing isn't really necessary to achieving desired results. There's a lot more to getting good results, which can be done without the benefit of annealing. For many of us, annealing is a cheaper way to get consistent results than the expense of high end or custom work done on actions and barrels.

The main thing annealing does best is extend the life of cases, especially when one is using the likes of factory off the shelf guns. Along with that, annealing (when done correctly) can also produce more consistent sizing results, which for most shooters isn't really important to the type of shooting they do.

Broad brush, blanket statements are rarely helpful.

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T12:40:47-0500

Annealing is a important step in the reloading process and there is nothing you can say to change my mind. Now a amp annealer will give consistent results, but if you don't have amp money a flame annealer will do

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T12:57:06-0500

straightshooter1 said:
OK

But at least you should tell the WHOLE story. Like, was this done with an off the shelf factory rifle or not? If not, was it a custom rifle and what are the chamber specs? Barrel details? What brass was used and how many firings on them. What's your brass prep? Cartridge specs? Seating to touch or jam?

Things can be done where annealing isn't really necessary to achieving desired results. There's a lot more to getting good results, which can be done without the benefit of annealing. For many of us, annealing is a cheaper way to get consistent results than the expense of high end or custom work done on actions and barrels.

The main thing annealing does best is extend the life of cases, especially when one is using the likes of factory off the shelf guns. Along with that, annealing (when done correctly) can also produce more consistent sizing results, which for most shooters isn't really important to the type of shooting they do.

Broad brush, blanket statements are rarely helpful.

My point is that you don’t need to annneal to shoot incredible groups. Not one of those other factors changes that.

Annealing doesn’t improve accuracy or negate any of what you said. If you think you can shoot this with a factory rifle you don’t know much about shooting and we don’t need to know what you’re doing.

zmen · 2024-11-23T13:00:21-0500

Maurygold said:
I will 100% agree on longevity increase for annealing. I am hesitant to believe a torch can consistently achieve that point but do 100% believe using an amp will extend brass life.

My interactions have led me to many people who believe annealing will increase accuracy and it’s for that reason I believe it can do more harm than good and the amount of is unnecessary (unless you’re a very high volume shooter, like 3k+ rounds. A year)

100% agree induction is the way to go on annealing ( I’m assuming that’s what you mean by saying you’re hesitant on torch annealing ) I myself just am not that serious of a shooter to drop the $1300 on an AMP. I’m probably in the realm of about 1,000-1,300 rounds a year myself. Iv yet to shoot through a full life span of torch annealed brass but have gone through a batch of brass with no annealing so maybe torch isn’t the greatest but in my experience does show positive results.

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T13:02:06-0500

zmen said:
100% agree induction is the way to go on annealing ( I’m assuming that’s what you mean by saying you’re hesitant on torch annealing ) I myself just am not that serious of a shooter to drop the $1300 on an AMP. I’m probably in the realm of about 1,000-1,300 rounds a year myself. Iv yet to shoot through a full life span of torch annealed brass but have gone through a batch of brass with no annealing so maybe torch isn’t the greatest but in my experience does show positive results.

My lapua brass last 11-12 firings. I buy 200 rounds per barrel and toss them all at the end of barrel life.

I’d rather that than anneal. Eventually the primer pockets will go and I’d rather not let that be a surprise

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T13:22:07-0500

Maurygold said:
My lapua brass last 11-12 firings. I buy 200 rounds per barrel and toss them all at the end of barrel life.

I’d rather that than anneal. Eventually the primer pockets will go and I’d rather not let that be a surprise

I've got 20 reloads on lapua brass and primer pockets are still good. 105 hybrid at 3000 plus. There's the difference

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T13:25:30-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
I've got 20 reloads on lapua brass and primer pockets are still good. 105 hybrid at 3000 plus. There's the difference

So when do primer pockets go?

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T14:01:58-0500

Maurygold said:
So when do primer pockets go?

I'm not sure, my practice brass has 23 firings and I retired them and the primer pockets still pass my go gauge but I figured I got my moneys worth. The 20 firing lot was match brass that is being retired to practice

Kickin45 · 2024-11-23T14:37:20-0500

Wow this went out into the weeds lol
I’m not doing this for added accuracy.
It’s to allow me to get as many firings as possible from my $2.75ea brass

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T14:46:18-0500

Kickin45 said:
Wow this went out into the weeds lol
I’m not doing this for added accuracy.
It’s to allow me to get as many firings as possible from my $2.75ea brass

If you are not buying a amp buy the ep entergration annealer. Save the money

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T18:00:19-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
I'm not sure, my practice brass has 23 firings and I retired them and the primer pockets still pass my go gauge but I figured I got my moneys worth. The 20 firing lot was match brass that is being retired to practice

Cool. Let’s see some chronos from brass after 15 firings. Doing something and doing something well are different things

Holliday · 2024-11-23T18:11:18-0500

My ugly annealer works great!

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T19:32:33-0500

Maurygold said:
Cool. Let’s see some chronos from brass after 15 firings. Doing something and doing something well are different things

I don't have pictures for proof but I wouldn't run it if it didn't work

Maurygold · 2024-11-23T19:48:21-0500

Jmkjr87 said:
I don't have pictures for proof but I wouldn't run it if it didn't work

10-15 sd groups work. But that’s not what I want to shoot

Jmkjr87 · 2024-11-23T19:52:17-0500

10 shot group es of 18 SD at or below 10, I don't remember exactly. It was at the regional finale.

Ex E6 · 2024-11-23T20:28:13-0500

Kickin45 said:
Time to start annealing my large collection of brass.
Vertical standing auto feed is the course I’ve decided on. Between these 3, I could really use some input from you guys that have used one or all. They all 3 seem to be very similar, so it comes down to ease of use and precision.

Burstfire g2
Ugly
Annealeez

Works as well as any other brand and pile 100-200 on set it forget it ( After YOU ensure all is set correctly ) . I modified My Annealeex 2 and it works perfectly . As a result of angling the torch head about 115Deg. rather than a 90 deg. contact with shoulder and neck . The cases remain cooler nearer the bases and heat registration ,matches Lapua's near perfectly . Measured from neck mouth down 0.5910" ,so shoulder and neck have ductility restored . Does it work ? YES ,as flame is directed too the shoulder onto the neck and away from the wheels ,so they also stay cooler . I cover with heavy duty aluminum foil ,because I do hundreds at a time and case heat transfers . Yet MY bases never exceed 225 F. ,well within safety margins .

I'm currently on firing #47 of some Old dirty disgusting 1942-43 M2 Cal .30 cases ,all loads have been loaded within 1.0 grain of maximum loading for an M1 Garand . These particular cases had been laying to the weather for nearly 70 years ,until I cleaned them up .
I've Not lost a single case or have had a rim torn off ,which is amazing given the brutality M1 extractors exert on cases .

NATE40 · 2024-11-23T20:51:19-0500

Personally I purchased an Annealeez annealer and it works wonderful for my Presicion Hand loading. I still use a deep socket and power drill. ( I anneal after every shot).
If you are shooting a lot and want something that still hangs tough
Mine has 20+ years of hard work and still working great

straightshooter1 · 2024-11-23T21:32:03-0500

Maurygold said:
Cool. Let’s see some chronos from brass after 15 firings. Doing something and doing something well are different things

How about Lapua SRP fired 13x, 50 rounds fired and chronoed: 5.4 SD and 23 ES (AR-Comp pushing 169 SMK's)

Same brass firing 14X: 25 rounds fired and chronoed: 5.1 SD and 20 ES. (AR-Comp pushing 177 SMK's)

Heretic · 2024-11-23T21:55:30-0500

Kickin45 said:
Wow this went out into the weeds lol
I’m not doing this for added accuracy.
It’s to allow me to get as many firings as possible from my $2.75ea brass

This. I have about a thousand Lapua and Peterson brass in different calibers. If I had to re-purchase that, I could have bought an AMP. Which I did, instead. 12-20 firings before annealing? Why not 24-40 or more? I bought a Giraud and got so frustrated with getting the flame right and adjusting for different brass, I used it twice. It is in pristine condition sitting in the box on my garage bench. Well made, and the feeder is a plus, but you need more patience and brass than I'm willing to sacrifice.

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