I have had the annealeez for a few years, but if I had to buy again I would buy the ugly. It seems to be better built. I see some people recommend the EP but for me I wouldn't even consider one without some type of hopper to feed them.
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Got the Bench source and Ugly, If you got the money get the Bench source. Fit and Finish is what you get, Bench source is super to adjust and you never have to play with screws and bushings to make it work.Time to start annealing my large collection of brass.
Vertical standing auto feed is the course I’ve decided on. Between these 3, I could really use some input from you guys that have used one or all. They all 3 seem to be very similar, so it comes down to ease of use and precision.
Burstfire g2
Ugly
Annealeez
What Regulator do you recommend? My Bernzomatic UL2317 pencil flame torches wouldn't light with a 20PSI Reg it apparently wasn't enough to force the torches check valve open.Agree with using gas annealer for gas gun and small caliber/cheap brass for bulk fired weapons. I do it for 223, 308, 260 and use the AMP only for the magnum stuff. If you get a gas annealer for $300 these days, you keep it when you get the AMP and set up autofeed for bulk/cheap stuff.
Also agree with getting a quality regulator and a 1-gallon (or larger) propane tank. Set a given PSI (I use 20), measure the tip of the TORCH HEAD (not the flame) to the neck, and adjust the dwell time so it just barely visibly glows in a completely dark room (the flame itself makes some light). Record the dwell time and the distance (torch to neck; mine is about 3/4") and just reuse those settings with that brass next time. You can confirm with tempilaq, but it will melt before the case glows. And I can tell you from using AMP, when I quickly remove the case in darkness, it's glowing. So it's hotter than 750 Tempilaq, which is a PITA to use.
I got this one from a barbecue supply store in Texas. I probably paid too much but it is high-quality. If you’re handy with these things, you could splice one together yourself or have the local propane shop do itWhat Regulator do you recommend? My Bernzomatic UL2317 pencil flame torches wouldn't light with a 20PSI Reg it apparently wasn't enough to force the torches check valve open.
No auto feed
I get probably an AVERAGE of 20 reloads on $1+ a piece brass. Loosing tension in primer pockets is the only reason I toss it. Since I started annealing I don’t think I’ve thrown one piece away because the neck split. I run 600 pieces per cartridges I shoot, and that makes a flame annealer pay for itself in a year, and I could even justify an AMP, though the flame does what I want, which is essentially making an $800 investment last twice as long.My lapua brass last 11-12 firings. I buy 200 rounds per barrel and toss them all at the end of barrel life.
I’d rather that than anneal. Eventually the primer pockets will go and I’d rather not let that be a surprise
One thing I figured out yesterday by accident that should have been obvious much sooner, is that with my Giraud and the regulator, I can change the pressure and leave the dwelltime the same to account for differences in brass. For example, my 308 Hornady brass was 8.5 seconds at 3/4 of an inch torch head from neck and 20 psi. For a Lapua 260 case, that was going to be like a 14 second dwelltime so I turned up the PSI to 26, and it took the dual time right down to nine seconds.
So I think from now on, I am going to shoot for an eight second dwelltime and just adjust the PSI for whatever case I’m annealing
At some point, the torch probably maxes out, but I haven’t experimented to find out what PSI that is yet
View attachment 8585250
You sit and watch your pilot lights burn too?Got to sit there anyways. An annealer isn’t something to set and forget especially a flame annealer. Just as fast.
How does turning your regulator up and down differ from turning the adjustment on your torch head up and down?One thing I figured out yesterday by accident that should have been obvious much sooner, is that with my Giraud and the regulator, I can change the pressure and leave the dwelltime the same to account for differences in brass. For example, my 308 Hornady brass was 8.5 seconds at 3/4 of an inch torch head from neck and 20 psi. For a Lapua 260 case, that was going to be like a 14 second dwelltime so I turned up the PSI to 26, and it took the dual time right down to nine seconds.
So I think from now on, I am going to shoot for an eight second dwelltime and just adjust the PSI for whatever case I’m annealing
At some point, the torch probably maxes out, but I haven’t experimented to find out what PSI that is yet
View attachment 8585250
LOLAnd FFS this is getting old
The important thing she said is if you're using the torch for a "lengthy job." Run the flame at max capacity.The only point she conveys in that video worth sharing, is the concept that heat travels back along the torch tube towards the valve and tank. When you use one of these to anneal cases, that is different than soldering for plumbing because the torch will be on long enough to make it an issue.
Using a larger tank and distant regulator does two things, it keeps the gas in the tank from warming up and changing during your session, and it also keeps the regulator out of that heat.
You will want to keep an eye on flame operations since the heat traveling back down the tube will eventually change the flame as it affects the valve and fuel.
The video is otherwise just cute and doesn't convey any of the flame front or valve setting concepts at all.
If you flame anneal, it is best to be taught by an expert. You can do this on your own but it requires feedback. You are either going to want to watch your seating force, or submit samples for hardness survey.
If you do this blind and get it right, that is great and carry on. I know folks who got it right by luck without feedback, so it can be done.
If your results are making things worse, try watching the seating force or try to find a lab to submit samples. YMMV
Or maybe you have it wrong.Hot dog
You have to allow the torch to get to an equilibrium temperature as I have said multiple times.
My zippo lighter flame heats the case to cherry hot, so I don't know what else you want. The setup also comports with the instructions Doug Giraud sends with the machine ("inner blue flame 3/4" long and 1/4" from case neck) more or less. Maybe Giraud and all the guys using his machine have gotten it wrong all these years, who knows? Despite tempilaq and all that.
And yet here we go again, back to the old fight about whether flame annealing does anything, or makes it worse or wastes time, and whether or not so and so is doing it right
And FFS this is getting old
Man, you can't even ask about machines without the annealing shit starting. Everyone has the "best method" but nobody can actually prove why their way is better.
The term you are looking for is recovery annealing.FWIW : I had MY brass tested by the foremost expert in the metallurgic field , at Skunk-works ,AKA Lockheed Martin facility .
As I had sophisticated facilities and the ability to occasionally use them , as I wanted to Know definitively whether or not it was worth screwing with and does it actually work .
YES & YES provided the brass neck and shoulder get 1200-1300 Deg., F or as they turn orange to Red ,that's ALL that's required .
As I worked there back in those days . It's NOT rocket science it's simply restoring ductility to the neck and shoulder where the brass moves most ,as firing cartridges cold works brass . A simple eyeball for color change is all one needs and 200-300 degrees F this way or that way doesn't matter . 1100 Deg. F. - 1500 Deg. F. works and only requires seconds . 800 -900 Deg. F. ISN'T enough ,one would be required to leave the case at that temp for minutes . Doing so runs the risk of heat transfer down the body .
As true annealing requires TEMPERATURE AND TIME , Excessive time which NO one can do practically . This is why it's actually " Partial Annealing " or restoring ductility . Simply softening that portion of the brass case .
Cartridge Brass ,AKA High zinc melts at 1652 Deg. F. Low zinc brass around 1725 Deg. F. give or take a few degrees ,as alloys can alter melt points .
The term you are looking for is recovery annealing.
Here is another oldie but a goodie in terms of what actually goes on in a ammo plant.
The article is old, but little has really changed in terms of the annealing during the inter-draw steps and the final anneal.
Generally speaking, employees and consultants are not allowed to publish these topics, so good luck finding anything like this again.
https://ia902200.us.archive.org/19/items/AmmunitionMakingNRAByG.Frost1990/Ammunition Making-NRA by G. Frost-(1990) _text.pdf