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My Reloading Rules for Long Range Shooting
- Thread starter secondofangle2
- Start date
6.5SS , 57gr H1000, 3008 right out of the gate fireforming cases. Haven't tried pushing any harder
My 7 saum can do that with Berger 180 hybrids.
Don’t think I’m bashing the Sherman cartridges because I like the design but the stated performance gains are a bit much.
I think of them as the short action version of the 300 prc vs 300WMno arguement from me
Optimized for modern bullets but it you optimize the older cartridge they’re performance is basically identical
The designs are awesome. A modern Ackley I guess you could say. Specially the new mega case is so tempting but been down that road.
I agree - the list is great but when working up a load, I sometimes tighten up the variables for a bit. Working up a new load seems to be the requirement with limited supplies. Get the load doped and load 50 the fun way per above if you have the supplies and start shopping for more and hope!
Only thing I would add to this as we shoot LR FTR matches and shoot for score. Keep everything the same.
A national FTR champion once told me at a match when pulling targets. It does not matter if what I do is different from what you do regarding loading. Do what works best for YOU.
They said consistency on everything is the key!
A national FTR champion once told me at a match when pulling targets. It does not matter if what I do is different from what you do regarding loading. Do what works best for YOU.
They said consistency on everything is the key!
Sorry to resurrect my own old thread - but here I am, 7 years into a 50BMG load with RL50, that shoots lights out at 100 and bangs the steel at high percentages to a mile.
But now I have a large plate I shoot at 2400 yards. And the 50 ain't cutting it there as it SHOULD be. And since we now have the GARMIN and measure every single shot we shoot (don't you?), I know why: RL50 has a SD of 14 fps over 25 rounds in my 50. It's probably a temperature sensitivity thing, because I shoot 5 and cool the fuck out of the barrel with a RYOBI blower. So I get back on the gun, it's 50 degrees cooler and I'm back to heating up the powder and vertical stringing. Maybe, maybe not, but that's my current hypothesis
So here I am back to the drawing board, and re-reading my "rules" - "Don't use Alliant powders"
I will report back after testing my H50BMG loads on Tuesday.
Gonna be Hodgdon Extreme powders FTW from now on I think....unless its 800 yards and in, like my 308 and my 223
But now I have a large plate I shoot at 2400 yards. And the 50 ain't cutting it there as it SHOULD be. And since we now have the GARMIN and measure every single shot we shoot (don't you?), I know why: RL50 has a SD of 14 fps over 25 rounds in my 50. It's probably a temperature sensitivity thing, because I shoot 5 and cool the fuck out of the barrel with a RYOBI blower. So I get back on the gun, it's 50 degrees cooler and I'm back to heating up the powder and vertical stringing. Maybe, maybe not, but that's my current hypothesis
So here I am back to the drawing board, and re-reading my "rules" - "Don't use Alliant powders"
I will report back after testing my H50BMG loads on Tuesday.
Gonna be Hodgdon Extreme powders FTW from now on I think....unless its 800 yards and in, like my 308 and my 223
Well, if you think it’s temp, you shoot five-shot strings, and you record every shot…can’t you just check the data?
Chart every five-shot string on top of each other and see if MV trends upwards as you move through the shots of the string.
Chart every five-shot string on top of each other and see if MV trends upwards as you move through the shots of the string.
Yeah, the problem with that is, trying to discern trends in very small data sets. You’re going to be chasing ghosts.
All that matters to me is, when I plop down to start banging steel at 2400 yards, and I shoot 30 rounds, what is the velocity variation of that long string?
Because I’m not about to start playing this game of adding five or 10 ft./s every shot I take
Or thinking that that’s what I should do because the last five shots string, which is way too small a data ser to infer trends from, suggested
This is one area where I think the Hornady podcast guys got it right: you need a realistic sample size to make a statistical inference
All that matters to me is, when I plop down to start banging steel at 2400 yards, and I shoot 30 rounds, what is the velocity variation of that long string?
Because I’m not about to start playing this game of adding five or 10 ft./s every shot I take
Or thinking that that’s what I should do because the last five shots string, which is way too small a data ser to infer trends from, suggested
This is one area where I think the Hornady podcast guys got it right: you need a realistic sample size to make a statistical inference
Well, this’ll be my last thought for you, but:
You said yourself you think it’s temp increasing over a shot string. So, your hypothesis is that there is a trend over small data sets. What I’m saying is, you don’t have to test anything more to determine if your hypothesis is likely disproven, you just need to look at the data you already have. If they generally trend upwards across most strings, then maybe you’re on to something. But if the shots are scattered above and below the mean with very little relationship to what position in the string they were, then it’s likely not your hypothesis.
That said, most powders will get the barrel hotter over a string. But also Hornady says to change components if you want big changes in your results, so go for it.
You said yourself you think it’s temp increasing over a shot string. So, your hypothesis is that there is a trend over small data sets. What I’m saying is, you don’t have to test anything more to determine if your hypothesis is likely disproven, you just need to look at the data you already have. If they generally trend upwards across most strings, then maybe you’re on to something. But if the shots are scattered above and below the mean with very little relationship to what position in the string they were, then it’s likely not your hypothesis.
That said, most powders will get the barrel hotter over a string. But also Hornady says to change components if you want big changes in your results, so go for it.
Oh. Yeah I don’t disagree strongly because, sometimes the 5th shot is 40 fps too SLOW. and it should be fast
So, yeah, I should have not inferred the temp sens hypothesis really
But, it’s 35 degrees and I know I’ll face this problem again in summer
Maybe that’s what I was thinking
So, yeah, I should have not inferred the temp sens hypothesis really
But, it’s 35 degrees and I know I’ll face this problem again in summer
Maybe that’s what I was thinking
Sooooo.... i have a question that has been bugging me and have never seen any reference to the same. I am sure this will stirrr some interesting responses.
just how valuable is ES? obviously, the concept is extremely valuable but do you trust your ES from a 3-round group, 5-round group, 10-round group, 20-round group?
For example, if i have an ES of 34 from a 10-round group and upon deeper analysis i find that i had just one flier (maybe a bad primer or something like that). if i remove that one flier, my ES goes from 34 to 10. So from that analysis, is my ES 34 or 10.
remember what Albert Einstein taught us... EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE to which a common reply is CONTEXT MATTERS
just how valuable is ES? obviously, the concept is extremely valuable but do you trust your ES from a 3-round group, 5-round group, 10-round group, 20-round group?
For example, if i have an ES of 34 from a 10-round group and upon deeper analysis i find that i had just one flier (maybe a bad primer or something like that). if i remove that one flier, my ES goes from 34 to 10. So from that analysis, is my ES 34 or 10.
remember what Albert Einstein taught us... EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE to which a common reply is CONTEXT MATTERS
If you have a decent amount of shots in a group (10 minimum) and your flyer is so far outside the normal distribution, I would consider removing it. The danger is when you get multiple flyers in the tails of the normal distribution, and start culling those. But I guess you do so at your peril.
Einstein had a thing about Reference Frames and the lack of an absolute time value.
Einstein had a thing about Reference Frames and the lack of an absolute time value.
For initial testing I use 10 rounds minimum for ES/SD and am willing to trust it with fairly high confidence. I do not throw away any numbers. After that I try and chrono as many rounds as possible while practicing to get a good solid velocity number.
IMO If that velocity outlier showed up once in 100 rounds it'd be fine to ignore it since it will have little to no affect on your numbers but if it's showing up in almost every 10 rounds string its part of the load.
First off if you're worried about variance, stop looking at ES altogether, it's not a statistical/mathematical measurement, it's just your "spread" and it will be reflected in your SD.
You want your SD lower than 10, ideally.
It's EASY to get that once in a while with 3-5 shot strings by chance.
To get a reliable number I want at least 10, better yet 20 shots. so I just leave the GARMIN on when I shoot several 5 shot groups, cooling the barrel in between.
Like Dog said, I remove an occasional outlier. I'm not shooting in comp, I'm ringing long range steel, and I figure if the SD of 9 shots was 6, and then the 10th shot is way out left field and takes the SD to 12, I'll stick with that load and accept that every 10 shots or so, one will be an outlier/miss at range.
