Custom builder poll! Tacops vs KMW
- Thread starter Lrdchaos
- Start date
I know you want a definitive answer in either direction, but the honest truth is that I don't remember ever reading anything negative about either.
This is a situation where you make your choice depending on options and lead times, not concerns about quality.
This is a situation where you make your choice depending on options and lead times, not concerns about quality.
You can do a TacOps in a KMW Sentinel stock.
Not to choose one over the other, I only have a KMW that was built circa 2007-8 on a Surgeon action. Terry does things I really like such serializing all parts on the gun. I have builds from other 'smiths and he provides the best attention to detail based on what I own. Would love to own a TacOps but not in the works at this time.
Terry is an OG in the game and a great builder......so no issues there. I don't know TacOps personally but I've seen some ridiculous (good) groups posted with those rifles and factory ammo. So good in fact, I'm surprised they are not winning every single LR competition out there.......even with factory ammo to boot.
Ern
Ern
About 15 years ago I "got on a list" with Terry for a build in any 6 MM cal. Initially I was #10 on the list. I moved up to # 4 or 5 IIRC. Have not heard much for the last 13 years or so. 
.
This was pre KMW stock time. Surgeon was the go to action. Now I am wondering if my rifle has been done for over a decade and is just sitting there waiting on me to claim it?
Seriously, either guy is GTG and will build a great rifle. Both seem quite likeable, and honesty is unquestioned.
. This was pre KMW stock time. Surgeon was the go to action. Now I am wondering if my rifle has been done for over a decade and is just sitting there waiting on me to claim it?
Seriously, either guy is GTG and will build a great rifle. Both seem quite likeable, and honesty is unquestioned.
A 18" non adjustable 308 isn't competitive, in fact if you tried to compete with that you would be setting yourself up for failure.
Even in F t/r it would be a challenge. You would be up against guys running 28" barrels and 180gr bergers handloaded at 2600-2800 fps, while your 168gr smk is going 2500. Not only that but their rifles are set up to be comfortable over the long strings of fire. You will get beat up and start making mistakes.
In PRS type stuff it would be even worse for you.
They are running 28" 6mms in a 20+ lbs gun to spot their own impacts and buck the wind.
Not to mention the 10oz triggers and super adjustable stocks with ARCA rails and weight systems. A Tac Ops isn't meant for that, is a work gun.
To help you to understand the difference I will reference Terry Cross in his own Zealot chassis thread on why his chassis isn't super adjustable like the gamer stuff.
308 Pirate to Mr. Cross
"Can you educate me on why the highlighted is not a desirable feature on a working precision rifle? I find the ability to change pad height invaluable, particularly in prone."
Mr. Cross in response to 308 Pirate
"It is just my own personal philosophy and decision.
Anything that can be adjusted will certainly become "un-adjusted" at the wrong time.
All vertical adjustable buttplates just create another snag point sticking out while some also expose sharp edges when moved from the neutral position.
A vertical adjustable butt will add Length to the butt I don't want on this model.
A vertical adjustable butt will add weight and cost to the chassis I don't want on this model.
This chassis already places the recoil pad higher on the shoulder than the majority out there and in testing has shown the current config to work across a lot of body styles and all positions pretty well.
I very consciously kept it off of this model.
The comp model will have it and at that time, I'm sure there will be people swapping parts over to some of these.
Just like the SENTINEL stocks, this chassis was designed to be pretty good at everything instead of a specialty stock that was really good at one thing and sucked at others."
./
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/zealot-rifle-chassis-by-kmw.7097762/
Hope this helps.
One is an OG in the precision rifle/building game and the other , well you can read his posts here.
Terry goes out of his way to help people out. Its not even a question between the two.
Terry goes out of his way to help people out. Its not even a question between the two.
What purpose is this rifle for?
Collecting, fit and finish quality, accuracy, etc?
Both are amazing quality, the question is what you plan to use it for.
Patek Phillipe Calatrava vs Rolex Daytona
Mike's a standup guy that builds a hell of a rifle. He's gone out of his way and above and beyond a few times here to help members out - including fixing rifles he didn't build.
My X-Ray 51 is never leaving my stable. Mike also builds badass suppressors - not often you get to own an amazing rifle and suppressor built by the same person!
No experience with KMW. They look like nice rifles and I always enjoy Terry's posts on here.
My X-Ray 51 is never leaving my stable. Mike also builds badass suppressors - not often you get to own an amazing rifle and suppressor built by the same person!
No experience with KMW. They look like nice rifles and I always enjoy Terry's posts on here.
Both Terry and Mike post here. Both have gone above and beyond to help folks on the Hide by offering free repairs etc...
Both build amazing rifles with great attention to detail.
If it helps you, my Delta-51 clocks 2595 fps at the muzzle with FGMM 185 Berger Juggs. That's not too bad at all for a 20" tube. Hornady 168 ELD-M TAP is 2725. FGMM 168 SMK is a pedestrian 2605 or so. TRU 168 TMK is 2625. I'm a traditional stock guy at heart, so in many ways my Delta-51 is my ideal "general purpose" rifle. I got mine with the adjustable stock, put a March FX on it. She's chonky compared to "normal" rifles, but balances well and is light for the precision game at around 13.5 lbs or so dressed (iirc... and I might not). Bare muzzle, I ran 60 or so rounds through her on the first trip to the range... fired the best group of my life, no issues with comfort.
Mike / Tac-Ops redefined what I expect from a rifle. I know I'm not all that and a bag of chips as a shooter. I'm working on it. What my Delta-51 showed me is that I'm a better shooter than most of the rifle's I've fired allow me to be. The problem, of course, is that when you get a gun that'll shoot 10 into less than 1/2 MOA, it's difficult to settle for less ;-). "Normal" precision for me, with good builds, typically hovers in the .75 MOA - 1 MOA range, depending on ammo, if I had my Wheaties, etc. My Delta-51 is on a different level and I'm just not good enough to shoot to the rifle's potential (sorry Mike).
That said, I'd love to have something from Terry - he's a hell of an engineer and a gentleman. I am very impressed by the Zealot.
Mike / Tac-Ops redefined what I expect from a rifle. I know I'm not all that and a bag of chips as a shooter. I'm working on it. What my Delta-51 showed me is that I'm a better shooter than most of the rifle's I've fired allow me to be. The problem, of course, is that when you get a gun that'll shoot 10 into less than 1/2 MOA, it's difficult to settle for less ;-). "Normal" precision for me, with good builds, typically hovers in the .75 MOA - 1 MOA range, depending on ammo, if I had my Wheaties, etc. My Delta-51 is on a different level and I'm just not good enough to shoot to the rifle's potential (sorry Mike).
That said, I'd love to have something from Terry - he's a hell of an engineer and a gentleman. I am very impressed by the Zealot.
I appreciate all the feedback gentlemen. I’ve went back and forth, and I think I’m going with a KMW built sentinel. They are both great rifles, and both great individuals after speaking with them, but I prefer the sentinel stock over the traditional A3. And the fact that I’m at the top of the list for a sentinel which should be ready in a couple weeks is a plus.
The final word, both:
www.snipershide.com
TAC OPS / KMW Collaboration
Just a heads-up gentleman after several in-depth conversations with Terry Cross of KMW we are seriously considering doing a collaboration of a rifle project together. With our combined expert experience of over 75 years of building thousands of platforms we are thinking of doing a Tac Ops / KMW...
www.snipershide.com
I'm happy you went with Terry he's handsome great unbelievable builder and he's much younger than me and doesn't use Italian olive oil in his lathe like I do to cut my chambers
Mike R
Mike R
Fk it I can't lie I've used both and the Italian olive oil is the secret sauce that I can put the 1/4 MOA Guarantee on the Tac Ops Rifles...
Please don't hate
Mike R.
