Maggie’s Surrender a Suppressor

Thumper580 · Dec 15, 2024

Sort of a estate planning question.
I have a couple of suppressors on individual form 4's. If I were to pass for some reason I was wondering how or what my wife would need to do to? I'm assuming she could surrender them to the local sheriff's office or ATF branch. Would that be correct? They are obviously in my name only. Thanks.

chevy_man · Dec 15, 2024

No. They get a free form 5 to an heir or can be sold on a form 4 to another individual.

In both cases the executor of the estate holds them until stamps come back.

You can leave them to anyone that's not a prohibited person, or sell them. Local guy died and left all his guns and suppressors to his shooting buddies. No big deal.

ATF Form 5 NFA Tax Stamp Walk-Through Guide

How to guide and walk-through guide for the ATF Form 5 NFA Tax Stamp Application - ATF 5320.5 Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm How do I fill out the ATF Form 5 Tax Stamp Application? In this step by step walk-trough guide we go over ever line item in the ATF Form...

www.nationalguntrusts.com

david walter · Dec 15, 2024

ATF form 5 them to herself for $5? I think and keep them

Or, sell them to a FFL with a SOT.

doubloon · Dec 15, 2024

david walter said:
... for $5? ...

Or, sell them to a FFL with a SOT.

A Form 5 is tax free, see the chevy_man post above.

You can't legally transfer what you don't own.

Destruction is an option.

goinghunting · Dec 15, 2024

Surrender them to the local authorities?

Come on now.

NoDopes · Dec 15, 2024

So, I thought there was a requirement that nobody else could access them? In case of death,legally an heir couldn't touch them.
Things.that make you go hmmm.

Watch your dogs people.

chevy_man · Dec 15, 2024

NoDopes said:
So, I thought there was a requirement that nobody else could access them? In case of death,legally an heir couldn't touch them.
Things.that make you go hmmm.

Watch your dogs people.

Yes.

According to the lawyers after you die they become part of the estate, which is why the executor of the estate can legally hold them. He's already legally responsible for everything else.

Easiest option is to form 4 them to a trust right now, and add trustees. Then any of the trustees can legally possess them even after his death.

Sean the Nailer · Dec 15, 2024

doubloon said:
A Form 5 is tax free, see the chevy_man post above.

You can't legally transfer what you don't own.

Destruction is an option.

I gotta say it.... that is a VERY glowing thing to state.

Especially here, on this site, amongst these folks.

I want to say that I'm surprised, but I shouldn't be. Disgusted isn't quite the word that applies either......

chevy_man · Dec 15, 2024

Sean the Nailer said:
I gotta say it.... that is a VERY glowing thing to state.

Especially here, on this site, amongst these folks.

I want to say that I'm surprised, but I shouldn't be. Disgusted isn't quite the word that applies either......

To be fair, it's hard to not sound like a glowie when discussing federal laws and rules.

Downtown · Dec 15, 2024

This is really a very easy question and I'm a little curious why it's even a issue. Tax free Form 5 to an heir and then Form 4 tax paid to any one in state. Done all the time.

chevy_man · Dec 15, 2024

Downtown said:
This is really a very easy question and I'm a little curious why it's even a issue. Tax free Form 5 to an heir and then Form 4 tax paid to any one in state. Done all the time.

Many people only do the research to buy. Most gun shops only tell you how to buy.

Not uncommon for people to not think about the "what ifs".

david walter · Dec 15, 2024

If you’re the executor, you have ownership authority over the entire estate. You can transfer them. Ask me how I know.

Destruction? Seriously?

Glowie.

doubloon said:
You can't legally transfer what you don't own.

Destruction is an option.

doubloon · Monday at 12:01 AM

david walter said:
If you’re the executor, you have ownership authority

Duh-fucking-uh

... I think I said you can't transfer what you don't own and you retort with "you can transfer it if you own it" ... brilliant. Without a will or named beneficiaries there are situations where a spouse or a remaining relative do not automatically become executors.

Go fuck yourself with our glowie bullshit and your $5

Sean the Nailer said:
I gotta say it.... that is a VERY glowing thing to state.

She may have no use for the NFA.

It's quite possible his NFA is crap and not worth the price of transfer.

Destruction is a legal option.

You can go fuck yourself with your glowie bullshit too.

Who the fuck are these idiots who call anybody they disagree with glowies?

Pay attention to what chevy_man is saying, ignore these idiots.

david walter · Monday at 5:07 PM

You said you can’t transfer what you don’t own and I said being the executor is legal ownership. Why would the wife not be the executor? And in most states, being the surviving spouse is assumed ownership absent a will that states otherwise.

So, how is my answer wrong? She can, with a form 5 and proof of death transfer them to herself or another family member.

Have you done this (I have) or is this something you’ve read about?

Why would she destroy them when she can transfer them. Or sell them to an SOT?

Destruction reads like, “After you die, your wife should throw the value of the suppressors away, and still have to file paperwork with ATF.”

eca7891 · Monday at 5:28 PM

I’m guessing you passed while transporting them via boat?

John Glidewell · Monday at 5:38 PM

Create a gun trust, put them on the trust. My Wife and I have all our NFA stuff on our gun trust.

Thumper580 · Monday at 7:21 PM

The bottom line is she has zero interest in my gun stuff and I don't want to saddle her with ATF BS to sort out. It would be a mess.

John Glidewell · Monday at 7:29 PM

Thumper580 said:
The bottom line is she has zero interest in my gun stuff and I don't want to saddle her with ATF BS to sort out. It would be a mess.

Then create a trust with another family member or friend. And you really miss the point of the trust. If you create a trust with the wife then she does not have to deal with ATF or anyone else. She is the legal owner and can sell, destroy or what ever she wants to do with them. I would suggest you do some research on gun trusts.

david walter · Monday at 7:33 PM

Then put a fiend who is interested in buying your gear on your trust with an agreed amount to pay her upon your untimely demise.

Or, ID an SOT you trust and leave his info with your suppressor paperwork and tell her to take it all to him if you die and he’ll cash it out.

Either one is easy for her and she doesn’t have to do much but take money.

doubloon · Tuesday at 11:21 AM

david walter said:
Why would the wife not be the executor?

https://nfalawyers.com/estate-documents-and-nfa-property/

An "executor" or "administrator" is a designated entity. Not every state assumes the spouse to be the legal executor. It depends on the intestate laws of each state.

Without any documentation like a will or a trust there is often no designated authority. Some states automatically pass possessions to the spouse or the children if there is no current spouse assuming the manner of death isn't suspicious.

Financial institutions, on the other hand, generally require a Executor in absence of any named beneficiary to be appointed through the courts in order to transfer ownership of a solely owned account. If a husband has a bank account in his name only with no designated co-owners or beneficiaries the surviving spouse does not automatically get to start making withdrawals against it. Usually the bank isn't knowingly going to let spouse make withdrawals. Why would a NFA in one name only with no will, no trust or no other form of designated authority be any different?

You can't just give it to a SOT or FFL to "hold" while you sort things out.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/transfers-national-firearms-act-firearms-decedents-estates/download

For registered NFA firearms in the estate, the executor should take action as soon as possible to arrange for the proper registration of the firearms. Possession of an NFA firearm not registered tothe possessor is a violation of Federal law and the firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture.However, we do allow the executor a reasonable time to arrange for the transfer of the registered firearms in a decedent’s estate. This generally should be done before probate is closed.It is the responsibility of the executor of the estate to maintain custody and control of the firearms and to transfer the firearms registered to the decedent. The firearms may not be transferred to another party, such as a firearms licensee, for consignment or safekeeping. This would be a transfer subject to the requirements of the NFA. The licensee may assist the executorby identifying purchasers and acting as a broker.

He doesn't absolutely need a Trust. Beneficiaries or heirs who should inherited the NFA could be named with a simple will. It could even be an ordered list of potential heirs like Bob gets all the NFA and if Bob is dies or becomes a felon or doesn't want the NFA then Tim gets what Bob doesn't want or can't have and if Tim dies or becomes a felon or doesn't want the NFA then Roofus, then Mickey, then Davey, then Michael, then Peter ... yada yada.

Lastly destruction. If she has no interest in them and the most valuable thing in his collection is a JJFU potato can and the sum value of it all isn't worth a cart of groceries why should she burden herself with a lifetime of babysitting something that could earn her a felony if she handled it wrong? Even so she may have to be a named heir to take legal possession of them via. Form 5 just to destroy them so it might be easier for her just to let them become a problem for the probate court.

kcbird · Tuesday at 2:23 PM

I told my wife to throw them in a bumpster. I'll be dead, fuck em.

sandhiller · Tuesday at 2:37 PM

doubloon said:
then Mickey, then Davey, then Michael, then Peter

Downtown · Tuesday at 4:18 PM

In my state the spouse is routinely appointed executor of an estate with no will. My friends wife, as executor, possessed his NFA items legally until the Form 5s was returned, which transferred the items to her as an individual. Then she sold them to me on Form 4s. Very easy and no FFL was needed. The process certainly does depend on one's state probate laws..

doubloon · Tuesday at 7:02 PM

Downtown said:
In my state the spouse is routinely appointed executor of an estate with no will.

Totally agree with you.

It's not "uncommon" in other states as well but it is a court appointment with a teeny bit of documentation to make it "official like".

With a will he could name anyone he wanted as executor and his wife wouldn't even have to be bothered to hold on to them during a transfer.

Like chevy said, most people don't think about the what-ifs.

Those silencer shop one shot trusts are convenient by they don't have any provision for naming beneficiaries so you need extra paper like you would for NFA on individual stamps.

All my crap is in a trust. The wife is a trustee but only because she might accidentally take the car with one in it, she'd never intentionally use one or even have any interest in picking one up to put it back in the safe. The trust has several other family members as trustees who may actually have an interest in the disposition of the items, the wife will never have to mess with them.

Personally I'm of the same mind as kcbird, IDGAF what happens to them just saving the wife some headache if I go before her.

chevy_man · Wednesday at 1:07 AM

Thumper580 said:
The bottom line is she has zero interest in my gun stuff and I don't want to saddle her with ATF BS to sort out. It would be a mess.

You can fill out the form 5s and leave them with your will for the executor to date and file.

What you're seeming to want is an answer that is lazy and doesn't require any effort on your part.

david walter · Wednesday at 11:05 AM

@chevy_man gives good advise.

However, I’m not sure what’s unclear about she can take them to a SOT and let the SOT buy them.

Or you can add a trusted individual to your trust.

Don’t overcomplicate this.

And, there is a grace period between when you die and when she has to dispose of the suppressors.

doubloon · Wednesday at 12:02 PM

david walter said:
Or you can add a trusted individual to your trust.

OP already stated the NFA are on individual form 4's not a trust. OP can't add anybody to a trust he doesn't have.

david walter said:
However, I’m not sure what’s unclear about she can take them to a SOT and let the SOT buy them.

What's unclear about the SOT advice is who possesses the the NFA while waiting for the transfer to be approved.

At face value this statement sounds like you're saying the SOT can give her cash money on the spot and she can just leave the NFA on the counter and walk out. No. This would be an illegal transfer. She can't even legally leave them with the SOT for "safe keeping".

Yes, she can sell them to a SOT or anybody she wants but only if she is the actual court appointed executor or if she transfers them to herself on a form 5 first. Or, per your trust advice, if OP wants to spend beaucoup money to set up a proper NFA trust then transfer each of his NFA to the trust so he can name her a RP on the trust.

david walter said:
And, there is a grace period between when you die and when she has to dispose of the suppressors.

There is an arbitrary grace period for the executor that "should be" before probate closes. But she has to be named/appointed/documented/recognized as the executor. The ATF can decide the "grace period" is over at any time.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/transfers-national-firearms-act-firearms-decedents-estates/download

It's not complicated. Write a will naming executors and heirs then form 5 them or destroy them.

Maggie’s - Surrender a Suppressor

Sort of a estate planning question. I have a couple of suppressors on individual form 4's. If I were to pass for some reason I was wondering how or what my wife would need to do to? I'm assuming she could surrender them to the local sheriff's office or ATF branch. Would that be correct? They are...

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