.223 Wylde DMR Build (Input)

Firedawgz20 · Wednesday at 5:33 PM

BLUF: I'm requesting feedback on a BCG for a DMR build, (build list below).

Alright SH fam, I will start a DMR build soon. I will post a voting poll for the BCG, but I am also interested in your thoughts on the other items in the build list as well.

Preface:
I know I could get a (quality rifle) for the amount I will spend on the parts list (or less), but I wanted to get into the hobby of (Building) AR's. This is my first AR build (EVER). So I request that the feedback be focused on the items in the build list & your experience with these parts, or parts you believe to be superior to them at or near the same price point.

Context:
In an effort to subvert the (should have spent that money on training) comments; I have attended 485 hours of credentialed firearms training with reputable training instructors. I try to attend 2-3 classes annually to stay proficient & improve my skill set. This rifle will be used for DMR roles during training missions. I train with a community defense group regularly.

Build list:
1. Ballistic Advantage 18" 223 Wylde SPR fluted SS rifle length, Premium Series, 1.03″ Gas Block Seat for .750″
2. Aero Precession M4E1 Pro stripped lower
3. Aero Precision M4E1 Enhanced upper w/ 15'' handguard
4. BCM carbine MilSpec buffer tube
5. Armaspec AR15 Gen4 C/H/H2 Stealth Recoil Spring Kit:
6. B5 Systems furniture
7. Rise Armament RA-140 Super Sporting Trigger (DTOM)
8. CMMG lower parts kit
9. Fortis Manufacturing tapered castle nut/end plate K1 system
10. Forward Controls Design Stoner 63 style compensator (DA Keymo)
11. DA Sandman S
12. Riflespeed adj. gas block (7543)
13. Radian Weapons combo charging handle / Talon safety
14. DTOM themed; forward assist / take down pins / ejection port
15. Aeroshell 64

Optic Choices:
1. Vortex Razor HD 1-6X24 in Badger Ordinance C1 mount W/ 45 degree offset 509 ACSS
2. Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 in Vortex Pro rings w/ 45 Degree offset 509 ACSS

Secondary Feedback, Anything else I will (NEED) besides tools below:
1. Dimpled roll pins
2. Interchangeable brass, metal, nylon hammer
3. Wheeler bolt catch install punch
4. Real Avid AR15 Master bench block
5. Midwest Industries professional armorers wrench
6. Midwest Industries upper receiver rod
7. Wheeler trigger pull scale
8. KZ AR15/M4 Receiver Extension Buffer Tube Block
9. in lb torque wrench
10. ft lb torque wrench
11. in lb driver

oldrifleman · Thursday at 10:55 AM

I use JPs on almost every build these days.

HD1911 · Thursday at 11:10 AM

I really dig the Geissele REBCG.

Redlion · Thursday at 11:26 AM

Lantac Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group 5.56 Black Nitride

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 11:48 AM

That is a list of very disparate parts. A lot of those parts don't have to be unique or have some special feature.

As far as a BCG, I would look at Lantac EBCG or just a simple, well made BCG like a RCA standard mass or a their adjustable gas key standard mass. I like to use JP BCGs in just about everything but they're not priced commensurate to your parts list.

If you're open to other suggestions, I would recommend saving some money by choosing some more normal, run if the mill small parts and putting the savings towards a better barrel. Like a WOA SDM or service rifle barrel. Or Craddock RTR. And then I would either go with a 16" or just fully commit to a 20" for velocity. 18" is like the worst of both worlds. It's not short and the velocity gains are minimal. The only thing it gets you is rifle length gas. I also would lean towards a fixed and pinned gas block. It's not hard to gas a 20" rifle length 223. It's probably the first gas port that Stoner figured out. Something like a pinned Black River Tactical low profile gas block and a .078" EZ tune tube for a 20" or just a standard gas tube would probably be fine. The Sandman S has relatively low back pressure due to the .30 aperture and it's incredibly low performance so you wouldn't have to choke the gas down too much. What's for certain is you're not going to need all that adjustability of the rifle speed gas block. An RCA adjustable gas key BCG is $27 more than the standard version and would take care of gassing the rifle so a simple, reliable pinned lo-profile gas block and cheaper gas tube can be used.

Some other small parts that are nice without being overly expensive:

PWS ratchet castle nut. Locks the buffer tube in without having to stake the nut.

MAGPUL MOE K2+ XL grip. If you have large hands and want a more vertical grip for precision prone shooting this is a nice grip. It's like $20.

MAGPUL DT PR. You can find these for $50. They provide a PRS Lite type of functionality but they also collapse and they have a tension function so it doesn't wobble around in the buffer tube.

An "enhanced" buffer tube would provide a small lip for the BCG to ride on and reduce the risk of the BCG smashing the buffer tube over time. It's a little bit of a 6 of one, half dozen thing but they can be had for about the same price of the BCM tube you have listed. Aero makes one and Optics Planet has them for $39.

Cascade Hemi · Thursday at 12:05 PM

Microbest Chrome BCG with C158 bolt, SprinCo springs, and OCKS fasteners. They're pretty reasonably priced.

https://arftac.com/microbest-ar15-5-56-c158-mpi-all-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-premium/

Overwatch260 · Thursday at 12:10 PM

Agree with @JR1200W3 the Rubber City Armory standard mass with adjustable gas key and a better quality barrel (Craddock, WOA, Geissele) would be my personal choice over the Riflespeed gas block... You can also order one of RCA's "blem" BCGs and have the option to choose standard or adjustable gas key version for the same price last time I looked. I purchased one of their 308 BCGs and opted for the adjustable key in my order notes. I couldn't find anything "blem" about it when it arrived.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 12:26 PM

Another one to consider is opting for the Sgt of Arms ARCA handguard that fits the Aero M4 Enhanced upper vice the standard Aero Enhanced handguard. It has an integrated ARCA rail. It's $230 so the difference of buying an Aero for $160 and ARCA rails for $50 to 100 vs the SgtofArms is likely a wash but it makes for a much nicer ARCA setup. The Aero M4 Enhanced has a QD sling swivel socket at the 6 o'clock in the rear of the handguard next to the receiver. Dumb as fuck place to attach a sling and it prevents an Arca rail from being mounted there because it protrudes slightly. It's right where you might want to mount the rifle on a tripod too. The SgtofArms handguard also prevents having to play the dick dance of the ARCA MLOK nuts coming into close contact with the bottom of gas block on the far end of the handguard and the potentiality of having flyers from occasional contact during barrel whip.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 12:40 PM

oldrifleman said:
I use JPs on almost every build these days.

Which model? I see them on Optics Planet from $200-$500

Makinchips208 · Thursday at 12:44 PM

SOLGW bcg

Or as one mentioned above the specific microbest bcg.

Bolt Carrier Group SOLGW 5.56 158 Carpenter SP/HPT/MPI - Sons Of Liberty Gun Works

Sons of Liberty Gun Works – We look at the bolt carrier group as the heart of the gun. If the gas port is the lungs, then the bolt carrier group is the heart. It’s what drives the entire gun. If you look at the AR platform’s cycle of operations, everything happens around the bolt carrier...

sonsoflibertygw.com

Reason being,
Reputation.
proper and proven materials for each individual part, not just what’s cool.
They spec the right dimensions,
Use excellent springs.
They full auto test the finished unit.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 12:46 PM

HD1911 said:
I really dig the Geissele REBCG.

Thanks for the feedback. How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

oldrifleman · Thursday at 1:00 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Which model? I see them on Optics Planet from $200-$500

Full Mass, JPBC-2-BCG

TonyTheTiger · Thursday at 1:21 PM

Literally any quality BCG will do.
You're welcome.

joe777 · Thursday at 1:30 PM

Word of advice based on my experience, if this is for serious training go buy a serious ar.

If you're looking to learn to build ARs with cheap parts and barrels that's fine, but start with making a plinking rifle with the expectation of 2 moa.

If you want accuracy at minimum you need like a 500 dollar barrel with headspaced bolt. Also forget about an adjustable gas block on a serious rifle, look for a properly gassed barrel.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:38 PM

JR1200W3 said:
That is a list of very disparate parts. A lot of those parts don't have to be unique or have some special feature.

As far as a BCG, I would look at Lantac EBCG or just a simple, well made BCG like a RCA standard mass or a their adjustable gas key standard mass. I like to use JP BCGs in just about everything but they're not priced commensurate to your parts list.

If you're open to other suggestions, I would recommend saving some money by choosing some more normal, run if the mill small parts and putting the savings towards a better barrel. Like a WOA SDM or service rifle barrel. Or Craddock RTR. And then I would either go with a 16" or just fully commit to a 20" for velocity. 18" is like the worst of both worlds. It's not short and the velocity gains are minimal. The only thing it gets you is rifle length gas. I also would lean towards a fixed and pinned gas block. It's not hard to gas a 20" rifle length 223. It's probably the first gas port that Stoner figured out. Something like a pinned Black River Tactical low profile gas block and a .078" EZ tune tube for a 20" or just a standard gas tube would probably be fine. The Sandman S has relatively low back pressure due to the .30 aperture and it's incredibly low performance so you wouldn't have to choke the gas down too much. What's for certain is you're not going to need all that adjustability of the rifle speed gas block. An RCA adjustable gas key BCG is $27 more than the standard version and would take care of gassing the rifle so a simple, reliable pinned lo-profile gas block and cheaper gas tube can be used.

Some other small parts that are nice without being overly expensive:

PWS ratchet castle nut. Locks the buffer tube in without having to stake the nut.

MAGPUL MOE K2+ XL grip. If you have large hands and want a more vertical grip for precision prone shooting this is a nice grip. It's like $20.

MAGPUL DT PR. You can find these for $50. They provide a PRS Lite type of functionality but they also collapse and they have a tension function so it doesn't wobble around in the buffer tube.

An "enhanced" buffer tube would provide a small lip for the BCG to ride on and reduce the risk of the BCG smashing the buffer tube over time. It's a little bit of a 6 of one, half dozen thing but they can be had for about the same price of the BCM tube you have listed. Aero makes one and Optics Planet has them for $39.

Thanks for the feedback. How many rounds you got on your Lantac ECBG? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals. Same question for the JP BCG.

Watching SOTAR videos I am starting to shy away from the Nickel boron finish in favor of Black nitride or DLC due to tolerance failures.

I have already purchased the BA barrel as the reviews on the 32oz barrel all reported sub to 1.25 MOA capability. But what kind of groups are you getting from your WOA SDM?

I will definitely reconsider the gas block as I have not yet purchased that. But I will be shooting both suppressed & unsuppressed, does your logic still apply in this case?

I already purchased the Fortis castle nut, but thank you for making me aware of the PWS ratchet one, I will probably adapt this in future builds.

I do like magpul grips, but I prefer the texture of the B5 Systems P-23. The Magpul DT PR intrigues me, as the slop in a stock does bother me.

Also was unaware of the enhanced buffer tube, will research that.

Thank you kindly for your feedback.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:41 PM

Cascade Hemi said:
Microbest Chrome BCG with C158 bolt, SprinCo springs, and OCKS fasteners. They're pretty reasonably priced.

https://arftac.com/microbest-ar15-5-56-c158-mpi-all-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-premium/

Nice, SOTAR says he prefers chrome carriers with phosphate bolts due to tight tolerance specs. At $139 seems like a great deal. What is your experience with yours? How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:44 PM

Overwatch260 said:
Agree with @JR1200W3 the Rubber City Armory standard mass with adjustable gas key and a better quality barrel (Craddock, WOA, Geissele) would be my personal choice over the Riflespeed gas block... You can also order one of RCA's "blem" BCGs and have the option to choose standard or adjustable gas key version for the same price last time I looked. I purchased one of their 308 BCGs and opted for the adjustable key in my order notes. I couldn't find anything "blem" about it when it arrived.

Glad to hear you like the RCA adj. BCG. How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:46 PM

Makinchips208 said:
SOLGW bcg

Or as one mentioned above the specific microbest bcg.

Bolt Carrier Group SOLGW 5.56 158 Carpenter SP/HPT/MPI - Sons Of Liberty Gun Works

Sons of Liberty Gun Works – We look at the bolt carrier group as the heart of the gun. If the gas port is the lungs, then the bolt carrier group is the heart. It’s what drives the entire gun. If you look at the AR platform’s cycle of operations, everything happens around the bolt carrier...

sonsoflibertygw.com

Reason being,
Reputation.
proper and proven materials for each individual part, not just what’s cool.
They spec the right dimensions,
Use excellent springs.
They full auto test the finished unit.

SOLGW BCG's also have favorable inspections by SOTAR. This was also a BCG I looked at. How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

TonyTheTiger · Thursday at 1:50 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc.

These are wear items. You cant spend your way out of replacing them if you shoot enough.

Firedawgz20 said:
Watching SOTAR videos

I found the problem.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:51 PM

oldrifleman said:
Full Mass, JPBC-2-BCG

Wow they proud of that BCG. How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 1:53 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Thanks for the feedback. How many rounds you got on your Lantac ECBG? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals. Same question for the JP BCG.

Watching SOTAR videos I am starting to shy away from the Nickel boron finish in favor of Black nitride or DLC due to tolerance failures.

I have already purchased the BA barrel as the reviews on the 32oz barrel all reported sub to 1.25 MOA capability. But what kind of groups are you getting from your WOA SDM?

I will definitely reconsider the gas block as I have not yet purchased that. But I will be shooting both suppressed & unsuppressed, does your logic still apply in this case?

I already purchased the Fortis castle nut, but thank you for making me aware of the PWS ratchet one, I will probably adapt this in future builds.

I do like magpul grips, but I prefer the texture of the B5 Systems P-23. The Magpie DT PR intrigues me, as the slop in a stock does bother me.

Also was unaware of the enhanced buffer tube, will research that.

Thank you kindly for your feedback.

I've never replaced any parts on any of the BCGs I have. I had a Lantac EBCG in a large frame build a couple of years ago and was impressed by it for the features, weight, and coating. I pretty much just buy JP BCGs now.

I think you might be placing a little too much emphasis on the whole maintenance thing. Buy a quality BCG and shoot the fuck out of it. By the time you need to replace something your rifle ADHD will probably be kicking in you'll want the new hotness. If you have to replace parts in the BCG before you replace 4 - 5 barrels it's a shit BCG.

I'm getting .5" - .6" groups with the occasional .3" out of a 5 year old 20" WOA SDM barrel. I have a fixed gas block that had to be thermally fitted on the barrel and a standard rifle length gas tube. I think it's melonited

. And I'm shooting it suppressed with a high back pressure can. Yes, I do think you can balance the gas between unsuppressed and a low back pressure can. If you want to optimize for suppressed only, you can check out Black River Tactical EZ tune gas tubes. You'll want a .076" or .078" model. The happy coincidence between WOA gas journals and BRT lo pro gas blocks is that you have to heat up the gas block to get it on the journal. It's rock solid once it's on.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 1:57 PM

TonyTheTiger said:
Literally any quality BCG will do.
You're welcome.

ARFTAC it is.

https://arftac.com/microbest-ar15-5-56-c158-mpi-all-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-premium/

oldrifleman · Thursday at 2:05 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Wow they proud of that BCG. How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

I clean after each range trip, wipe bolt and carrier down with BT carbon eliminator. Most have between 900-1500 rounds and I really have not replaced anything, one might be needing to have the rings replaced in the next few months, but no failures. All Semi-Auto, some high speed finger exercising but not many.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:05 PM

joe777 said:
Word of advice based on my experience, if this is for serious training go buy a serious ar.

If you're looking to learn to build ARs with cheap parts and barrels that's fine, but start with making a plinking rifle with the expectation of 2 moa.

If you want accuracy at minimum you need like a 500 dollar barrel with headspaced bolt. Also forget about an adjustable gas block on a serious rifle, look for a properly gassed barrel.

Thank you for sharing your experience. However, I reject the notion that you cannot achieve sub 2MOA without a $500 barrel. I own barrels that achieve sub MOA priced under $300.

Can I not validate the headspace specs prior to instillation & return if necessary?

You are the second person that has advised against an adjustable. gas block for this build. I will definitely research this more & if I can run both suppressed & unsuppressed w/o that feature I will.

Please define serious rifle.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:07 PM

TonyTheTiger said:
These are wear items. You cant spend your way out of replacing them if you shoot enough.

I found the problem.

LOL, so his approach is all snake oil then?

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:09 PM

JR1200W3 said:
I've never replaced any parts on any of the BCGs I have. I had a Lantac EBCG in a large frame build a couple of years ago and was impressed by it for the features, weight, and coating. I pretty much just buy JP BCGs now.

I think you might be placing a little too much emphasis on the whole maintenance thing. Buy a quality BCG and shoot the fuck out of it. By the time you need to replace something your rifle ADHD will probably be kicking in you'll want the new hotness. If you have to replace parts in the BCG before you replace 4 - 5 barrels it's a shit BCG.

I'm getting .5" - .6" groups with the occasional .3" out of a 5 year old 20" WOA SDM barrel. I have a fixed gas block that had to be thermally fitted on the barrel and a standard rifle length gas tube. I think it's melonited. And I'm shooting it suppressed with a high back pressure can. Yes, I do think you can balance the gas between unsuppressed and a low back pressure can. If you want to optimize for suppressed only, you can check out Black River Tactical EZ tune gas tubes. You'll want a .076" or .078" model. The happy coincidence between WOA gas journals and BRT lo pro gas blocks is that you have to heat up the gas block to get it on the journal. It's rock solid once it's on.

View attachment 8572907

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:16 PM

Nice rig, how you like that NF? I have a NF ATACR 5-25X56 on a Tikka T3X TACT A1 Couldn't be happier with mine.

I did not realize that a BCG will last through 5 barrels before its service life is done. My research indicates the BA SS barrel has a service life 10k-15k rds, that's 50k rds on a BCG. Is this true?

TonyTheTiger · Thursday at 2:17 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
LOL, so his approach is all snake oil then?

His videos are factually correct. They are also nearly worthless to 99.999% of shooters.
You want to get to work on time everyday? Go buy a Toyota. Stop watching videos of master techs discussing the compression ratios of a Nascar engine.
This is the same.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:18 PM

oldrifleman said:
I clean after each range trip, wipe bolt and carrier down with BT carbon eliminator. Most have between 900-1500 rounds and I really have not replaced anything, one might be needing to have the rings replaced in the next few months, but no failures. All Semi-Auto, some high speed finger exercising but not many.

Nice, glad to hear its giving those results.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:23 PM

TonyTheTiger said:
His videos are factually correct. They are also nearly worthless to 99.999% of shooters.
You want to get to work on time everyday? Go buy a Toyota. Stop watching videos of master techs discussing the compression ratios of a Nascar engine.
This is the same.

I understand the rationale. I lean into the best value approach. I still driving a 2008 Dodge ram because of the lifetime powertrain warranty when I purchased it in 2008.

But I hear your perspective, BCG brand is NBD in overall scheme of things.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 2:24 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Nice rig, how you like that NF? I have a NF ATACR 5-25X56 on a Tikka T3X TACT A1 Couldn't be happier with mine.

I did not realize that a BCG will last through 5 barrels before its service life is done. My research indicates the BA SS barrel has a service life 10k-15k res, that's 50k ends on a BCG. Is this true?

I would put usable accuracy for a .223 Remington closer to 5K rds in a match barrel. You might be able to hose 15K RDS down a barrel but you probably won't be happy with the accuracy.

NF NX8's are the sweet spot for affordably priced optics and performance. They suck ass in heavy mirage but they're reliable, durable, have the right features and aren't too heavy for precision ARs. They are no where near an ATACR. But that's a big scope for an AR-15. This is my first 2.5x20. I have a couple of 4x32's and for a long time didn't consider a 2.5x20 being worth buying because it's essentially the same size and weight of the 4x32. I don't really need lower magnification than 4x for what I do. And a Tremor3 reticle is useless that low. This scope is confirming all my prior thoughts, but I needed another NX8 and it was a good deal so whatever...

LRRPF52 · Thursday at 2:31 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Nice rig, how you like that NF? I have a NF ATACR 5-25X56 on a Tikka T3X TACT A1 Couldn't be happier with mine.

I did not realize that a BCG will last through 5 barrels before its service life is done. My research indicates the BA SS barrel has a service life 10k-15k res, that's 50k ends on a BCG. Is this true?

I have a pre-1963 slick side chromed bolt carrier in my Colt 605A clone. Nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, it’s probably built better than most after-market bolt carriers due to tri-bore tolerances.

Bolts are what wear out, along with cam pins, gas rings, springs, barrels, etc.

I would look at the top-level shooters in the courses you’ve attended, find out who has the least problems and best performance, and go in that direction.

I’m not sure if a Ballistic Advantage barrel will be in that equation. Not knocking them, but just seems the most important component will be from another barrel maker.

You have to decide if you’re going with a standard carrier and gas system, or something with tunable features to handle suppressed vs unsuppressed.

For me, I use Bootleg carriers. Very easy to adjust between naked and suppressed with them with just a flat head through the ejection port.

If I was going the route you are headed, I would do either the Bootleg or Rifle Speed for a tunable system, or for a basic BCG, go with a BCM or something that passes Mil-Std materials and dimensional checks.

My background is that I’ve been chasing the DM thing since the mid-1990s, but I’ve moved onto 6.5 Grendel and feel like 5.56 just tickles the targets now, at least out here in the West. Out East, with tree lines baffling the wind, you can get more audible hits on steel. Out here, 400yds is barely audible a lot of the time, plus no real ground effect from the bullet splash.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:45 PM

JR1200W3 said:
I would put usable accuracy for a .223 Remington closer to 5K rds in a match barrel. You might be able to hose 15K RDS down a barrel but you probably won't be happy with the accuracy.

NF NX8's are the sweet spot for affordably priced optics and performance. They suck ass in heavy mirage but they're reliable, durable, have the right features and aren't too heavy for precision ARs. They are no where near an ATACR. But that's a big scope for an AR-15. This is my first 2.5x20. I have a couple of 4x32's and for a long time didn't consider a 2.5x20 being worth buying because it's essentially the same size and weight of the 4x32. I don't really need lower magnification than 4x for what I do. And a Tremor3 reticle is useless that low. This scope is confirming all my prior thoughts, but I needed another NX8 and it was a good deal so whatever...

Does that apply to the .223 Wylde chamber as well? I will be shooting .556 77gr.

Yes the NF NX8 1-8X24 is on my 2025 xmas list. Do you run a red dot w/ your 2.5? If so, 12 o'clock or 45 offset?

Cascade Hemi · Thursday at 2:48 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Nice, SOTAR says he prefers chrome carriers with phosphate bolts due to tight tolerance specs. At $139 seems like a great deal. What is your experience with yours? How many rounds you got on yours? Have you had to replace any wearable parts gas rings, retaining pins, extractor spring etc. Just curious on your shoot schedule/mnt intervals.

Microbest is the OEM for a lot of the bolts mentioned in this thread. They make bolts for Colt, RRA, Bushmaster (back in the day), etc. I probably have a few hundred thousand rounds on their bolts. I've broken some but bolts break. It's a fact of life.

I think many of the high end bolts are mediocre at best, JP for example. You'll spend all of the money and then need to change the gas rings and springs. You may as well but a Microbest, if it breaks in 10 years you can buy another for less than a high end with the same service life.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 2:59 PM

LRRPF52 said:
I have a pre-1963 slick side chromed bolt carrier in my Colt 605A clone. Nothing wrong with it at all. In fact, it’s probably built better than most after-market bolt carriers due to tri-bore tolerances.

Bolts are what wear out, along with cam pins, gas rings, springs, barrels, etc.

I would look at the top-level shooters in the courses you’ve attended, find out who has the least problems and best performance, and go in that direction.

I’m not sure if a Ballistic Advantage barrel will be in that equation. Not knocking them, but just seems the most important component will be from another barrel maker.

You have to decide if you’re going with a standard carrier and gas system, or something with tunable features to handle suppressed vs unsuppressed.

For me, I use Bootleg carriers. Very easy to adjust between naked and suppressed with them with just a flat head through the ejection port.

If I was going the route you are headed, I would do either the Bootleg or Rifle Speed for a tunable system, or for a basic BCG, go with a BCM or something that passes Mil-Std materials and dimensional checks.

My background is that I’ve been chasing the DM thing since the mid-1990s, but I’ve moved onto 6.5 Grendel and feel like 5.56 just tickles the targets now, at least out here in the West. Out East, with tree lines baffling the wind, you can get more audible hits on steel. Out here, 400yds is barely audible a lot of the time, plus no real ground effect from the bullet splash.

Thank you for the feedback. A lot of positive feedback on chrome BCG's.

I did consider the bootleg but (He Whom Shall Not Be Named) had less than flattering feedback on those he dealt with. But TonyTiger says all that snake oil has no place in a NASCAR build.

I was leaning toward a Riflespeed gas block to resolve my suppressed/unsuppressed shooting schedules, thus the poll between Cryptic, Sharps, BCM, & Other. Perhaps I should not have included other, lol.

I will have to take your word for it on the 6.5 Grendel. I am not willing to invest in another caliber to stock pile, 7 is enough.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 3:00 PM

Cascade Hemi said:
Microbest is the OEM for a lot of the bolts mentioned in this thread. They make bolts for Colt, RRA, Bushmaster (back in the day), etc. I probably have a few hundred thousand rounds on their bolts. I've broken some but bolts break. It's a fact of life.

I think many of the high end bolts are mediocre at best, JP for example. You'll spend all of the money and then need to change the gas rings and springs. You may as well but a Microbest, if it breaks in 10 years you can buy another for less than a high end with the same service life.

Thank you for the feedback.

roostercogburn98 · Thursday at 3:10 PM

I used Seekins and had it headspaced to my barrel when it was spun up. It is a consistent 1 moa or slightly better with 77 grain IMI Razorcore

Mega matched upper and lower
PRS Gen 3 buttstock
Tubb Flatwire Spring
Standard buffer
Seekins BCG(complete from Seekins)
Triggertech two stage
Generic lower parts kit(pins, etc)
WOA competition length barrel extension
Bartlein 1-7.7 twist barrel(5/8-24muzzle)
Strike Industries handguard
Superlative Arms adjustable GB
Badger Max 36mm mount
ZCO 4-20

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 3:12 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Does that apply to the .223 Wylde chamber as well? I will be shooting .556 77gr.

Yes the NF NX8 1-8X24 is on my 2025 xmas list. Do you run a red dot w/ your 2.5? If so, 12 o'clock or 45 offset?

I would do a Vortex G3 1-10 over a NX8 1-8. Especially for a heavier DMR type of rifle. The glass and reticle is much better. The nx8 1-8 only excels in weight and size. I currently do not have a piggyback red dot but if I did I would mount it at 12 most likely. I have run a lot of piggyback red dots over the last two decades and used to be a big proponent for them. But that was almost another lifetime ago and for a different discipline than shooting competitions. They are another thing sticking out of your gun that can be broken. If I could do what I need to do by dialing down the 1X I would rather do that.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 3:18 PM

roostercogburn98 said:
I used Seekins and had it headspaced to my barrel when it was spun up. It is a consistent 1 moa or slightly better with 77 grain IMI Razorcore

Mega matched upper and lower
PRS Gen 3 buttstock
Tubb Flatwire Spring
Standard buffer
Seekins BCG(complete from Seekins)
Triggertech two stage
Generic lower parts kit(pins, etc)
WOA competition length barrel extension
Bartlein 1-7.7 twist barrel(5/8-24muzzle)
Strike Industries handguard
Superlative Arms adjustable GB
Badger Max 36mm mount
ZCO 4-20

Thank you for the input. Glad to hear you are getting sub MOA out of that build.

BCP · Thursday at 3:25 PM

Microbest or Toolcraft BCG in phosphate with milpec type parts, not nitrided

That barrel is mediocre get a green mountain or rainier for budget barrels, 5.56 chamber or wylde both are fine for your purposes

Might find something like a white oak or a seekins barrel on sale too if you look

Ideally you want to buy the barrel and bolt from the same place and have them fitted for a tight headspace but if you're mixing and matching on a budget that probably won't happen

If you want a trigger I've got a palmetto nickel boron 2 stage I'd sell you for 40$ shipped

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 3:26 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Microbest it is.

https://arftac.com/microbest-ar15-5-56-c158-mpi-all-chrome-bolt-carrier-group-premium/

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 3:30 PM

BCP said:
Microbest or Toolcraft BCG in phosphate with milpec type parts, not nitrided

That barrel is mediocre get a green mountain or rainier for budget barrels, 5.56 chamber or wylde both are fine for your purposes

Might find something like a white oak or a seekins barrel on sale too if you look

Ideally you want to buy the barrel and bolt from the same place and have them fitted for a tight headspace but if you're mixing and matching on a budget that probably won't happen

If you want a trigger I've got a palmetto nickel boron 2 stage I'd sell you for 40$ shipped

Thank you for the feedback.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 3:40 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
I was leaning toward a Riflespeed gas block to resolve my suppressed/unsuppressed shooting schedules, thus the poll between Cryptic, Sharps, BCM, & Other. Perhaps I should not have included other, lol.

So, if you're deadset on adjusting gas regularly for suppressed vs unsuppressed then the rifle speed might be the only option. Most adjustable gas blocks are only adjustable when new. After they get a couple hundred rounds in them, they seize up with carbon. So they adjust for you to tune the gas initially. Or the adjustable gas key or bootleg.

But, most people would probably say that constantly adjusting gas from unsuppressed to suppressed is not a place you want to be. Are you really going to shoot unsuppressed once you zero for suppressed? Are you going to change your zero along with adjusting gas? Sounds a pita. Because of that, most people just zero and gas for one or the other. It's kind of a novice idea that you're going to be changing your rifle around constantly. If you're not really going to do that in practice, you'll save yourself some money and ass pain building the gun.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 3:45 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Does that apply to the .223 Wylde chamber as well? I will be shooting .556 77gr.

Yes

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 3:48 PM

JR1200W3 said:
So, if you're deadset on adjusting gas regularly for suppressed vs unsuppressed then the rifle speed might be the only option. Most adjustable gas blocks are only adjustable when new. After they get a couple hundred rounds in them, they seize up with carbon. So they adjust for you to tune the gas initially. Or the adjustable gas key or bootleg.

But, most people would probably say that constantly adjusting gas from unsuppressed to suppressed is not a place you want to be. Are you really going to shoot unsuppressed once you zero for suppressed? Are you going to change your zero along with adjusting gas? Sounds a pita. Because of that, most people just zero and gas for one or the other. It's kind of a novice idea that you're going to be changing your rifle around constantly. If you're not really going to do that in practice, you'll save yourself some money and ass pain building the gun.

All valid points.

But the answer is yes. I remove the can & allow others to train with my weapon during our training days depending on what the objective is & what user is filling what role. I do have all the DOPE on my rifles for suppressed & unsuppressed to record POI shift for each platform. I then adjust windage/elevation as needed from the platforms record book.

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 3:54 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
All valid points.

But the answer is yes. I remove the can & allow others to train with my weapon during our training days depending on what the objective is & what user is filling what role. I do have all the DOPE on my rifles for suppressed & unsuppressed to record POI shift for each platform. I then adjust windage/elevation as needed from the platforms record book.

If it were me, I would still just try to balance the two with a low back pressure can.

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 4:05 PM

JR1200W3 said:
If it were me, I would still just try to balance the two with a low back pressure can.

Ok, theres another rabbit hole. I have a Sandman S. I hear Huxworx is a good one, thoughts?

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 4:14 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Ok, theres another rabbit hole. I have a Sandman S. I hear Huxworx is a good, thoughts?

I don't have any experience with Huxworx
Do you already own this Sandman s?

Firedawgz20 · Thursday at 4:15 PM

JR1200W3 said:
I don't have any experience with Huxworx
Do you already own this Sandman s?

Yes

JR1200W3 · Thursday at 4:25 PM

Firedawgz20 said:
Yes

Okay, then without this turning into a, "what is the best suppressor" thread...Just working with your Sandman-S, the upside to its low suppression performance is that it's not super high back pressure. I've got a Thunderbeast Dominus on a 20" rifle length gas with no adjustable gas block and it runs suppressed and unsuppressed. That's a high back pressure can. The Sandman-S would be even easier to work with.

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.223 Wylde DMR Build (Input)

Which BCG would you purchase for the below build?

Cryptic Mystic Black

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