Long Range for beginners

snowplow · Dec 20, 2024

Hey guys, l got a buddy who's into LR stuff and is always bugging me to go shoot with him. I've had plenty of shooting exp but never stretched it out before. I have a couple of very basic questions.

When you're running a big decked out scope that you can hold off or dial, does the caliber really matter that much? Is drop basically irrelevant and BC the basic consideration?

I have a Ruger Mark ll M77 in 7 mag and a Rem 700 30-06 that I'm not doing anything else with. I could also buy a 6.5 Creedmoor. Will either of the three calibers really be drastically different with the right scope setup?

Emerson0311 · Dec 20, 2024

The newer cartridges are designed from the ground up to be efficient and effective with high BC heavy for caliber bullets. The standard twist rate of classic cartridges/rifles often will not stabilize those bullets. The cost of feeding them is also a challenge. It is easier to see the impact of a larger bullet downrange, but $$$ and recoil are the cost. Not painful recoil, but recoil that makes it harder to be super precise without a very heavy rifle. 6.5CM is the base model pickup that does what the majority need done with a range toy.

brianf · Dec 20, 2024

Bc/ drop/ wind …”doesn’t matter” it’s all just math

The hard part is monitoring and “measuring” so you can correct

No one knows if it’s a 8mph or a 10mph out that far, so being able to see what happens is a must. Especially if you don’t have a competent spotter.

That’s why straight behind the rifle and lesser recoiling cartridges have taken over. They both make it easier for you to spot misses and adjust.

For any kind of distance you need to be able to hold the rifle and shoot ammo that is 1moa more or less..unless you are shooting at a car/ big rock in the field. Having a “1/4 minute” set up really won’t change anything out there.

Of the 3 you mentioned the 6.5 is the easy button.

It will shoot “inside” / better bc with less recoil than the 06 by a large margin, and it will shoot with the 7mm with less recoil.

Plus match grade factory ammo for the 6.5 is better than 99% of the hand loaders out there.

TheJeanyus · Dec 20, 2024

You're somewhat correct. The age-old term "flat shooting" is irrelevant with modern laser range finders and a good optic. It was important when we guessed, "Yeah that coyote looks about 350 yards away," then lobbed a bullet out there hoping we were correct within +/- 25 yards.

However, lower drag bullets (higher BC) are still important for more forgiving performance in the wind. Calling wind is the hardest part of connecting at range, and a bullet that drifts less in the wind will make things much easier. So, cartridges that are designed to shoot heavy-for-caliber bullets with long ogives have an advantage. The 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag were both designed around shorter, lighter bullets and while you can certainly connect at longer distances with them, they will not be as forgiving as even a milder cartridge like the 6.5 Creedmoor. On top of that, they're also going to recoil more which will make consistency more difficult as well as spotting hits/misses.

All of that said, if you have someone offering to take you out to shooting long range, just go shoot with what you have. Like most of us you'll probably get bitten by the bug and start planning out a dedicated long range target gun as soon as you get back.

Turkeytider · Dec 20, 2024

When you say, “ long range “, to what in the way of distance are you referring ? As stated, 6.5 Creedmoor is an all around great caliber with which to get started. It’ll rather easily handle distances to 1,000 + yards. It was originally designed specifically as a target round. Rifle offerings in 6.5 Creedmoor are practically limitless.

db2000 · Dec 20, 2024

Not knowing your skill level I’ll leave this here based off what you’ve asked.
There’s a lot of options including classes put on by Frank and others on here.
This is free and a good place to start. Ryan explains things well IMO. He has a lot of vids.

JR1200W3 · Dec 20, 2024

If you're asking if you can put a competent long range scope on a Remington 700 hunting rifle shooting 165gr hunting soft tips and be pretty much gtg for long range, the answer is no. I mean as Greg put it, "You can milk anything with nipples". But it doesn't mean it'll work out well.

Thin barrels will heat up fast and might walk with heat. If it's not threaded you forgo the added benefit of recoil reduction which will help see impacts.

The weight, ergonomics, and features of a stock or chassis designed for long range will help you as the shooter be more consistent shooting which in turn will help you maintain and shoot the same zero in a variety of environments and positions.

As far as speed and BC, they're both important. BC more so. The core of your question about just dialing the right data, even if it's a little more data than a faster round.... there's a kernel of truth there. But with both wind and elevation they can be unknowns and so the more forgiveness ( error budget/ danger space) you have to work inside of, the better your hit percentage will be. With modern LRFs getting the correct distance is much easier than calling the exact wind. We still don't have a commonly available tool to figure that out for us, so right now BC matters a bit more because it has more impact in wind calls. But I would also say that civilian long range shooting disciplines all revolve around target distances being given to shooters so it can present a false idea about elevation just being something you dial, doesn't matter if this cartridge needs a little more than that cartridge. Only in the last couple of years have civilian long range competition started to get to the point where people want to challenge themselves with unknown distance targets.

Maggot · Sunday at 8:05 PM

db2000 said:
Not knowing your skill level I’ll leave this here based off what you’ve asked.
There’s a lot of options including classes put on by Frank and others on here.
This is free and a good place to start. Ryan explains things well IMO. He has a lot of vids.

Interesting that you posted this today. We were at the range today with 20 mph full value gusting wind. With my 223 bolt I ended up holding 2 full mils to get on steel at 400.

Took a bit to work it out but once we got on it was a blast.

To the OP, I'd agree with the recommendation to just go and see if you like it. If so, 6.5 CM is a good starting place. Or you could have your 7mm rebarreled to a 7PRC which is still (barely) supersonic at a mile. Ammo is a bit more but damn the 7 PRC BC is hard to beat.

snowplow · Sunday at 10:58 PM

I didn't know if l could rebarrel to a 7 PRC from a 7 mag. That's good to know.

hafejd30 · Sunday at 11:06 PM

Starting off in long range a 6.5 CM is a good choice.

Good choices of factory ammo with decent barrel life and recoil

There’s lots of threads on it already but starting off with a decent rifle more specific to LR shooting will be a smarter choice. What you have is hunting rifles and they won’t fill the roll as well and be more expensive with excessive recoil and heat issues

Chris1972 · Monday at 6:42 PM

Tikka CTR and an XTR of some variety is a good starting point without going crazy financially. Accurate and reliable. The upgrades from there yield little return in the ability to shoot long range. As stated, trying to use a hunting rifle is a fools errand, they’re not designed for sustained firing no matter how accurate they are in a hunting scenario.

rileyr · Monday at 7:16 PM

Chris1972 said:
Tikka CTR and an XTR of some variety is a good starting point without going crazy financially. Accurate and reliable. The upgrades from there yield little return in the ability to shoot long range. As stated, trying to use a hunting rifle is a fools errand, they’re not designed for sustained firing no matter how accurate they are in a hunting scenario.

Tikka is the only way to go from the factory and the CTR is the only way to go if you want to shoot PRS (TAC A1 if you like the chassis). However I stumbled on a tract toric 4.5-30x56 and will never buy anything but tract optics ever again. The build quality, tolerances, finish and glass clarity are impeccable and the reticle is actually level to the housing which is of the most important aspect of a LR scope yet so many manufacturers blow it even on their top shelf models (Leupold, Burris, Athlon esepecially).

7mm-08 Freak · Tuesday at 6:18 AM

snowplow said:
Hey guys, l got a buddy who's into LR stuff and is always bugging me to go shoot with him. I've had plenty of shooting exp but never stretched it out before. I have a couple of very basic questions.

When you're running a big decked out scope that you can hold off or dial, does the caliber really matter that much? Is drop basically irrelevant and BC the basic consideration?

I have a Ruger Mark ll M77 in 7 mag and a Rem 700 30-06 that I'm not doing anything else with. I could also buy a 6.5 Creedmoor. Will either of the three calibers really be drastically different with the right scope setup?

I don’t think I would wanna try to do long range with an 06 or a 7mag. Your shoulder gonna be killing you at the end of the day I think I just go buy me a 24-26”6.5 Creedmoor and send it. Them suckers will shoot a long way and they don’t have a whole lot of recoil.

Turkeytider · Tuesday at 8:35 AM

Another vote for the CTR or possibly Super Varmint, either in 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavy barrel in either, probably a better stock ( Roughtech) in the SV, also an adjustable comb, which is nice. Very nice two stage trigger in the SV. Whether the difference in price is worth it ( ? ) is, of course, a matter of personal judgement.

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Long Range for beginners

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