Biden's Pardons

UKDslayer · 2024-12-20T21:34:43-0500

Biden's pardons just got a lot worse. We thought commuting the sentences of all those corrupt democrats that hurt and stole millions from American citizens was bad enough; meanwhile Biden thinks heck, let's get a bunch of people off of a death row.

Biden Mulls Commuting Sentences of All 40 Federal Death Row Inmates After Trump Promises to Accelerate Federal Executions | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

President Biden is weighing a historic decision to commute the sentences of all federal death row inmates, a move influenced by religious and civil rights advocates. Discover the implications of this potential shift.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the Boston Marathon bomber, Dylann Roof, the man who fatally shot 9 parishioners at a church in South Carolina, and Robert Bowers, the man who carried out a mass shooting at Tree of Life Synagogue, are all currently on death row.

Biden has now pardoned over 9000 people.

Edit:

Name	Race/Ethnicity	State	Year of Sentence	Offense
Agofsky, Shannon	White	TX	2004	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Allen, Billie Jerome**	Black	MO	1998	Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in an armed bank robbery during which a bank guard was killed. (Co-defendant of Norris Holder.)
Barnette, Marcivicci Aquilia	Black	NC	1998	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of his ex-girlfriend, as well as another man in a carjacking.
Basham, Brandon**	White	SC	2004	Convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and death of a woman following an escape from prison. (Co-defendant of Chadrick Fulks)
Battle, Anthony	Black	GA	1997	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prison guard.
Bowers, Robert	White	PA	2023	Convicted and sentenced to death for the mass shooting at Tree of Life Synagogue.
Brown, Meier Jason	Black	GA	2003	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a postal worker.
Caro, Carlos	Latino	VA	2007	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Coonce, Wesley**	White	MO	2014	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in the mental health unit of a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Charles Hall)
Council, Brandon	Black	SC	2019	Convicted and sentenced to death for killing two bank employees during the course of a bank robbery.
Cramer, Christopher**	White	TX	2018	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Ricky Fackrell)
Davis, Len+	Black	LA	2005	Police officer convicted and sentenced to death for ordered the killing of a witness for an internal affairs investigation into a police misconduct complaint against him.
Ebron, Joseph+	Black	TX	2009	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Fackrell, Ricky**	White	TX	2018	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Christopher Cramer)
Fields, Edward	White	OK	2005	Pled guilty to and sentenced to death for the fatal shootings of two campers on federal land.
Fulks, Chadrick**	White	SC	2004	Pled guilty and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and death of a woman following an escape from prison. (Co-defendant of Brandon Basham.)
Gabrion, Marvin	White	MI***	2002	Convicted and sentenced to death for klling a woman on federal land.
Garcia, Edgar**	Latino	TX	2010	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a fellow prisoner while incarcerated in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Mark Snarr.)
Hager, Thomas+	Black	VA	2007	Convicted and sentenced to death for a drug-related killing.
Hall, Charles**	White	MO	2014	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in the mental health unit of a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Wesley Coonce.)
Holder, Norris**	Black	MO	1998	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a security guard during a bank robbery. (Co-defendant of Billie Allen.)
Jackson, Richard Allen	White	NC	2001	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a woman while on federal property in North Carolina.
Kadamovas, Jurijus**	White	CA	2007	Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings and kidnappings-for-ransom of five Russian and Georgian immigrants. (Co-defendant of Iouri Mikhel.)
Lawrence, Daryl	Black	OH	2006	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a special-duty police officer during an attempted bank robbery.
Mikhel, Iouri**	White	CA	2007	Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings and kidnappings-for-ransom of five Russian and Georgian immigrants. (Co-defendant of Jurijus Kadamovas.)
Mikos, Ronald	White	IL	2005	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a federal grand jury witness in a Medicare fraud investigation.+
Roane, Jr., James H.**	Black	VA	1993	Convicted and sentenced to death for his participation in a series of drug-related killings. (Co-defendant of Corey Johnson & Richard Tipton.)
Robinson, Julius+	Black	TX	2002	Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of two men in drug-related incidents in Ft. Worth.
Roof, Dylann	White	SC	2017	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of nine parishioners in a church in South Carolina.
Runyon, David+	Asian	VA	2009	Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the death of a Naval officer in a murder-for-hire plot in Newport News.
Sanchez, Jr., Ricardo**	Latino	FL	2009	Convicted and sentenced to death for involvement in the drug-related killing of a family, including two children. (Co-defendant of Daniel Troya.)
Sanders, Thomas	White	LA	2014	Convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping resulting in death of a 12-year old girl.
Savage, Kaboni+	Black	PA	2013	Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings of 12 people in connection with a drug enterprise.
Snarr, Mark**	White	TX	2010	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a fellow prisoner while incarcerated in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Edgar Garcia.)
Taylor, Rejon+	Black	TN	2008	Convicted and sentenced to death for the carjacking, kidnapping, and death of a restaurant owner.
Tipton, Richard**	Black	VA	1993	Convicted and sentenced to death for his participation in a series of drug-related killings. (Co-defendant of Corey Johnson & James H. Roane, Jr.)
Torrez, Jorge	Latino	VA	2014	Ex-marine convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow service member.
Troya, Daniel**	Latino	FL	2009	Convicted and sentenced to death for involvement in the drug-related killings of a family, including two children. (Co-defendant of Ricardo Sanchez, Jr.)
Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar	White	MA	2015	Convicted for offenses committed in the Boston Marathon bombing and sentenced to death for two of the victims killed.
Umana, Alejandro+	Latino	NC	2010	Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of two brothers in a North Carolina restaurant.

Note: Names in [ ] are defendants whose conviction or death sentence have been reversed by the courts but the reversal is not yet final, or who are awaiting capital retrials or resentencings after an initial conviction or death sentence was overturned. Those awaiting retrial or resentencing are marked with a caret (^). From time to time, this list may include defendants whose cases are marked with an asterisk (*). This indicates that the defendant has received a verdict of death from the jury, but the judge has not yet issued a formal sentence. In the federal system, the judge is obliged to follow a unanimous jury recommendation. (Source: Federal Capital Habeas Project.)
Because of different definitions of what constitutes being “on death row,” some organizations such as the Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel or the Bureau of Justice Statistics may have a slightly different list of those currently under federal sentence of death. The DPIC total includes individuals whose capital convictions and/or death sentences have been overturned and who face continuing jeopardy of the death penalty until their retrial or resentencing proceedings are completed, although those individuals do not have a valid death sentence and are presumed innocent of the death penalty.
** Has co-defendant, as noted, also on death row.
*** States in bold have abolished the death penalty.
+ Has co-defendant(s) not on death row.
*States without their own death penalty law when the federal sentence was imposed. Illinois, Maryland, Connecticut, and Virginia no longer have the death penalty, but the federal death sentences in each state came when the state’s death penalty was still in effect.

Hecouldgoalltheway · 2024-12-20T21:37:20-0500

He's pardoned some pedophiles too. People incarcerated for crimes against children. He's let them go free..

UKDslayer · 2024-12-20T21:42:08-0500

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
He's pardoned some pedophiles too. People incarcerated for crimes against children. He's let them go free..

Only the Democratic pedophiles.

hafejd30 · 2024-12-20T21:46:41-0500

The goal is to destroy as much of America as they can before Trump takes over

So far plan is right on track

Hecouldgoalltheway · 2024-12-20T21:50:35-0500

UKDslayer said:
Only the Democratic pedophiles.

I think 90% of them are democrats..

mvphilly · 2024-12-20T21:52:57-0500

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
He's pardoned some pedophiles too. People incarcerated for crimes against children. He's let them go free..

So he can go hang out with them and exchange info.

diverdon · 2024-12-20T22:33:53-0500

I think this must be satirical. It just does not seem possible. I just did a Google search [Dylann Roof pardon] it did not return anything about a Biden pardon.

The first reason I thought the story BS is that Mr Roof and his family are poor white trash. Nothing for bribes=no pardon.

KYAggie · 2024-12-20T23:10:45-0500

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I think 90% of them are democrats..

That’s because 90% of the people doing crime and ending up in jail are democrats……..

akmike47 · 2024-12-21T01:33:54-0500

All but one TX inmate killed another prisoner, is that really that bad?

ggmanning · 2024-12-21T05:16:47-0500

Why are criminals sentenced to death still alive going back to 1993 on that list?

Fx51LP308 · 2024-12-21T05:56:11-0500

UKDslayer said:
Biden's pardons just got a lot worse. We thought commuting the sentences of all those corrupt democrats that hurt and stole millions from American citizens was bad enough; meanwhile Biden thinks heck, let's get a bunch of people off of a death row.

Biden Mulls Commuting Sentences of All 40 Federal Death Row Inmates After Trump Promises to Accelerate Federal Executions | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

President Biden is weighing a historic decision to commute the sentences of all federal death row inmates, a move influenced by religious and civil rights advocates. Discover the implications of this potential shift.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the Boston Marathon bomber, Dylann Roof, the man who fatally shot 9 parishioners at a church in South Carolina, and Robert Bowers, the man who carried out a mass shooting at Tree of Life Synagogue, are all currently on death row.

Biden has now pardoned over 9000 people.

Edit:

Name Race/Ethnicity State Year of Sentence Offense
Agofsky, Shannon White TX 2004 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Allen, Billie Jerome** Black MO 1998 Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in an armed bank robbery during which a bank guard was killed. (Co-defendant of Norris Holder.)
Barnette, Marcivicci Aquilia Black NC 1998 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of his ex-girlfriend, as well as another man in a carjacking.
Basham, Brandon** White SC 2004 Convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and death of a woman following an escape from prison. (Co-defendant of Chadrick Fulks)
Battle, Anthony Black GA 1997 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prison guard.
Bowers, Robert White PA 2023 Convicted and sentenced to death for the mass shooting at Tree of Life Synagogue.
Brown, Meier Jason Black GA 2003 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a postal worker.
Caro, Carlos Latino VA 2007 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Coonce, Wesley** White MO 2014 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in the mental health unit of a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Charles Hall)
Council, Brandon Black SC 2019 Convicted and sentenced to death for killing two bank employees during the course of a bank robbery.
Cramer, Christopher** White TX 2018 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Ricky Fackrell)
Davis, Len+ Black LA 2005 Police officer convicted and sentenced to death for ordered the killing of a witness for an internal affairs investigation into a police misconduct complaint against him.
Ebron, Joseph+ Black TX 2009 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a prisoner in a federal prison.
Fackrell, Ricky** White TX 2018 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Christopher Cramer)
Fields, Edward White OK 2005 Pled guilty to and sentenced to death for the fatal shootings of two campers on federal land.
Fulks, Chadrick** White SC 2004 Pled guilty and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and death of a woman following an escape from prison. (Co-defendant of Brandon Basham.)
Gabrion, Marvin White MI*** 2002 Convicted and sentenced to death for klling a woman on federal land.
Garcia, Edgar** Latino TX 2010 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a fellow prisoner while incarcerated in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Mark Snarr.)
Hager, Thomas+ Black VA 2007 Convicted and sentenced to death for a drug-related killing.
Hall, Charles** White MO 2014 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow prisoner in the mental health unit of a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Wesley Coonce.)
Holder, Norris** Black MO 1998 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a security guard during a bank robbery. (Co-defendant of Billie Allen.)
Jackson, Richard Allen White NC 2001 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a woman while on federal property in North Carolina.
Kadamovas, Jurijus** White CA 2007 Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings and kidnappings-for-ransom of five Russian and Georgian immigrants. (Co-defendant of Iouri Mikhel.)
Lawrence, Daryl Black OH 2006 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of a special-duty police officer during an attempted bank robbery.
Mikhel, Iouri** White CA 2007 Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings and kidnappings-for-ransom of five Russian and Georgian immigrants. (Co-defendant of Jurijus Kadamovas.)
Mikos, Ronald White IL 2005 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a federal grand jury witness in a Medicare fraud investigation.+
Roane, Jr., James H.** Black VA 1993 Convicted and sentenced to death for his participation in a series of drug-related killings. (Co-defendant of Corey Johnson & Richard Tipton.)
Robinson, Julius+ Black TX 2002 Convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of two men in drug-related incidents in Ft. Worth.
Roof, Dylann White SC 2017 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of nine parishioners in a church in South Carolina.
Runyon, David+ Asian VA 2009 Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the death of a Naval officer in a murder-for-hire plot in Newport News.
Sanchez, Jr., Ricardo** Latino FL 2009 Convicted and sentenced to death for involvement in the drug-related killing of a family, including two children. (Co-defendant of Daniel Troya.)
Sanders, Thomas White LA 2014 Convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping resulting in death of a 12-year old girl.
Savage, Kaboni+ Black PA 2013 Convicted and sentenced to death for his involvement in the killings of 12 people in connection with a drug enterprise.
Snarr, Mark** White TX 2010 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal stabbing of a fellow prisoner while incarcerated in a federal prison. (Co-defendant of Edgar Garcia.)
Taylor, Rejon+ Black TN 2008 Convicted and sentenced to death for the carjacking, kidnapping, and death of a restaurant owner.
Tipton, Richard** Black VA 1993 Convicted and sentenced to death for his participation in a series of drug-related killings. (Co-defendant of Corey Johnson & James H. Roane, Jr.)
Torrez, Jorge Latino VA 2014 Ex-marine convicted and sentenced to death for the killing of a fellow service member.
Troya, Daniel** Latino FL 2009 Convicted and sentenced to death for involvement in the drug-related killings of a family, including two children. (Co-defendant of Ricardo Sanchez, Jr.)
Tsarnaev, Dzhokhar White MA 2015 Convicted for offenses committed in the Boston Marathon bombing and sentenced to death for two of the victims killed.
Umana, Alejandro+ Latino NC 2010 Convicted and sentenced to death for the fatal shooting of two brothers in a North Carolina restaurant.

Note: Names in [ ] are defendants whose conviction or death sentence have been reversed by the courts but the reversal is not yet final, or who are awaiting capital retrials or resentencings after an initial conviction or death sentence was overturned. Those awaiting retrial or resentencing are marked with a caret (^). From time to time, this list may include defendants whose cases are marked with an asterisk (*). This indicates that the defendant has received a verdict of death from the jury, but the judge has not yet issued a formal sentence. In the federal system, the judge is obliged to follow a unanimous jury recommendation. (Source: Federal Capital Habeas Project.)
Because of different definitions of what constitutes being “on death row,” some organizations such as the Federal Death Penalty Resource Counsel or the Bureau of Justice Statistics may have a slightly different list of those currently under federal sentence of death. The DPIC total includes individuals whose capital convictions and/or death sentences have been overturned and who face continuing jeopardy of the death penalty until their retrial or resentencing proceedings are completed, although those individuals do not have a valid death sentence and are presumed innocent of the death penalty.
** Has co-defendant, as noted, also on death row.
*** States in bold have abolished the death penalty.
+ Has co-defendant(s) not on death row.
*States without their own death penalty law when the federal sentence was imposed. Illinois, Maryland, Connecticut, and Virginia no longer have the death penalty, but the federal death sentences in each state came when the state’s death penalty was still in effect.

So, he actually hasn't pardoned/commuted any of these yet.... just "thinking about it." I swear, if he pardons Tsarnaev, he best never show his face in Boston again, ever! Or South Carolina for Dylan Roof.

DarnYankeeUSMC · 2024-12-21T06:44:41-0500

Fx51LP308 said:
So, he actually hasn't pardoned/commuted any of these yet.... just "thinking about it." I swear, if he pardons Tsarnaev, he best never show his face in Boston again, ever! Or South Carolina for Dylan Roof.

When he leaves DC he'll have full time babysitting in Delaware. They will change his diaper and feed him ice cream. They will probably stop medication and escort him to the beach house occasionally to show that he's still alive. He's not going to be hanging out with the Kenyan and Big Mike in Martha's Vineyard or traveling around like all the past presidents. Statements will be released trashing Trump and accredited to the potato but we know that he's not capable of understanding what is going on around him. Maybe Cornpop will make a visit and get revenge?

wvfarrier · 2024-12-21T07:53:50-0500

He is doing as much damage as possible before he leaves office

mike278 · 2024-12-21T07:58:20-0500

Somebody needs to sue for an injunction until he can prove mentally competent. The entire world knows he isn't choosing the recipients of theses pardons. He's senile and will sign any piece of paper they tell him to sign.

sirhrmechanic · 2024-12-21T08:02:29-0500

diverdon said:
I think this must be satirical. It just does not seem possible. I just did a Google search [Dylann Roof pardon] it did not return anything about a Biden pardon.

The first reason I thought the story BS is that Mr Roof and his family are poor white trash. Nothing for bribes=no pardon.

It's being reported on Breitbart... Not satirical at all.

He is not going to pardon the death row inmates. Just commute their sentences to life.

He has commuted thousands. Pardoned more than almost all other Presidents put together since 1900...

Motherfucker...

Sirhr

PS. It's not him. It is his utterly corrupt handlers and/or Hunter and Jill who are probably cashing checks as fast as they can... of course not that Hunter has a pardon... he can do whatever he wants! Guess they should release those Hunter Laptop images now... of him raping children. It's not like they can do anything about him... so might as well make it public domain. Right President The Donald?

Fx51LP308 · 2024-12-21T08:02:49-0500

mike278 said:
Somebody needs to sue for an injunction until he can prove mentally competent. The entire world knows he isn't choosing the recipients of theses pardons. He's senile and will sign any piece of paper they tell him to sign.

That's a bit risky. If it goes that far, then there will be talk of the 25th amendment. Which is worse? FJB in the office for the rest of his term, or "Pres. Kamala Harris" behind the Resolute Desk for any length of time? I don't want Pres. Trump to be the 48th President..... the 47th is perfect for him.

sirhrmechanic · 2024-12-21T08:08:29-0500

DarnYankeeUSMC said:
When he leaves DC he'll have full time babysitting in Delaware. They will change his diaper and feed him ice cream and provide him with an endless supply of little kids that can rub his leg hair, so to speak. They will probably stop medication and escort him to the beach house occasionally to show that he's still alive. He's not going to be hanging out with the Kenyan and Big Mike in Martha's Vineyard or traveling around like all the past presidents. Statements will be released trashing Trump and accredited to the potato but we know that he's not capable of understanding what is going on around him. Maybe Cornpop will make a visit and get revenge?

FIFY

pmclaine · 2024-12-21T08:10:49-0500

No way he will pardon Roof.

Should Roof be pardoned?, no, but he probably is border line IQ functional and may be deserving of some indulgence for that. He does not fill any DEI box though and for that and his crime he will die.

Let’s not totally blame Biden.

Let’s blame the fact that in most cases these sentences should be carried out within a fortnight of the sentence if not directly from the court room.

The fact Tsarnaev has taken oxygen this long is appalling.

DarnYankeeUSMC · 2024-12-21T08:23:18-0500

pmclaine said:
No way he will pardon Roof.

Should Roof be pardoned?, no, but he probably is border line IQ functional and may be deserving of some indulgence for that. He does not fill any DEI box though and for that and his crime he will die.

Let’s not totally blame Biden.

Let’s blame the fact that in most cases these sentences should be carried out within a fortnight of the sentence if not directly from the court room.

The fact Tsarnaev has taken oxygen this long is appalling.

The liberal hippies are against the death penalty. There's no situation they believe that it is warranted except for abortion.

Mike Casselton · 2024-12-21T08:30:20-0500

DarnYankeeUSMC said:
The liberal hippies are against the death penalty. There's no situation they believe that it is warranted except for abortion.

Well, they do want us dead...

sirhrmechanic · 2024-12-21T08:32:07-0500

DarnYankeeUSMC said:
The liberal hippies are against the death penalty. There's no situation they believe that it is warranted except for abortion.

And CEO's. And Republican congressmen. And the Red Sea Pedestrians. And uppity Southern blacks who want to learn to read and vote. And Nazi's (which is really anyone they don't like). And tens of millions of Kulaks. And Sharon Tate. And congregations. And, recently, German Christmas Shoppers. Don't forget Donald Trump. Oh and 7.5 billion people who are trampling all over their precious Gaia. And who can forget "anyone who refuses to acknowledge their mental illness" when it comes to junk removal. Should I bring up people who refused to get death-vaccines? Nah... pretty sure you are familiar with that one!

Yeah... the mostly-peaceful left will kill you at the drop of a hat in retroactive abortions as long as it furthers their shining path.

But they'll empty the prisons in a second in order to make people scream "We need more Government protection" from the people they just released...

Sirhr

mike278 · 2024-12-21T08:45:55-0500

Fx51LP308 said:
That's a bit risky. If it goes that far, then there will be talk of the 25th amendment. Which is worse? FJB in the office for the rest of his term, or "Pres. Kamala Harris" behind the Resolute Desk for any length of time? I don't want Pres. Trump to be the 48th President..... the 47th is perfect for him.

As long as the RINOs are threatened enough to play along, they won't be able to push that through before the real President takes over. Just neuter the pedo in place.

Fig · 2024-12-21T11:26:32-0500

DarnYankeeUSMC said:
The liberal hippies are against the death penalty. There's no situation they believe that it is warranted except for abortion.

I'm completely against abortion, and against the death penalty. The government should not have the power to kill it's own citizens, period. The government, including and maybe especially the Judicial Branch, is completely corrupt and cannot be trusted. I would only accept an irreversible decision by some judge if I had any assurance that they were capable of delivering perfect justice. They're not. In fact, they suck. This is way, way, way more power than they should have, and frankly the death penalty may be the most arrogant and illogical decision a government functionary can make. Killing out in the field, all day long. Killing once the person is no longer a threat and in a cage, never.

That isn't to say some people don't need kilt at all. They do, but once they're captured it is simply too complete and perfect of a sentence for men to carry out. That is literally the reason that when the death sentence is handed they used to say, "And may God have mercy on your soul". The fact of the matter is that many people find faith in prison, and probably die being forgiven for their sins. As a Christian I am ideologically and spiritually committed to saving as many humans as possible, and my reasoning is solid.

It's not like I don't understand or sympathize with people who are for the death penalty, or I'm going to protest or argue for the animals who are given this sentence, but innocent people have been put to death, and that contravenes a thousand years of Western justice and juris prudence.

Agree to disagree.

Fx51LP308 · 2024-12-21T12:51:08-0500

Fig said:
I'm completely against abortion, and against the death penalty. The government should not have the power to kill it's own citizens, period. The government, including and maybe especially the Judicial Branch, is completely corrupt and cannot be trusted. I would only accept an irreversible decision by some judge if I had any assurance that they were capable of delivering perfect justice. They're not. In fact, they suck. This is way, way, way more power than they should have, and frankly the death penalty may be the most arrogant and illogical decision a government functionary can make. Killing out in the field, all day long. Killing once the person is no longer a threat and in a cage, never.

That isn't to say some people don't need kilt at all. They do, but once they're captured it is simply too complete and perfect of a sentence for men to carry out. That is literally the reason that when the death sentence is handed they used to say, "And may God have mercy on your soul". The fact of the matter is that many people find faith in prison, and probably die being forgiven for their sins. As a Christian I am ideologically and spiritually committed to saving as many humans as possible, and my reasoning is solid.

It's not like I don't understand or sympathize with people who are for the death penalty, or I'm going to protest or argue for the animals who are given this sentence, but innocent people have been put to death, and that contravenes a thousand years of Western justice and juris prudence.

Agree to disagree.

OK. I'll agree to disagree. And I do. I'm all for the preservation of life when it comes to the unborn (i.e. "anti abortion"). Yes, everyone has a right to life, to be born and to grow up. But, once grown, there are some things one can do with their life (evil, horrific, horrible things etc.) that justify the "forfeiture" of that life. Ask yourself this question: "Are there crimes and circumstances for which the 'forfeiture of life' is that necessary and sufficient measure of justice?" If you believe no, then I can see you being opposed to capital punishment. If you believe yes, then you must believe in capital punishment. And, as you state above, "This isn't to say some people don't need kilt at all. They do." And I agree, there. They absolutely do. But, if not the govt. then who? As you'll see below, perhaps we leave the decision of to whom it applies and to whom it's administered to a jury of the peers. It is only then the govt's job to carry out the jury's order.

I also agree that the system is often corrupt and that people are unjustly condemned to death. But does that mean we should stop the entire practice because of that? Stop the practice, "if it saves one innocent life?" Gee, where have I heard that before?

Not having capital punishment is a denial of justice to the victims of the crimes committed that warrant it. It's all about justice for the victims and their survivors. Nothing to do with deterrence or recidivism or any of those things. It is, simply. that just punishment for the crime committed. And, yes, I can be a forgiving person. I can forgive the BG that murders my family member. But what I can't do is absolve responsibility for what they've done. They still have to pay for it.

All that said, I do think there are some things we can do to help reduce the corruption. For example, I really take issue with the way prosecutors seek the death penalty for "select" defendants. I would almost rather go back to the days where capital punishment would be automatic, tied to
the offense and the circumstances. But I guess that wouldn't work, these days. Still, I think the decision to seek should be out of the hands of the prosecutor. There could be options built into the laws that say, "This particular level of offense is eligible for CP" and the jury would have to determine if the offense met that threshold. Yes, the prosecutor still can select the particular charge to file (i.e. selecting the punishment) but, hopefully, there a much stricter standards for proving capital offenses than there are now.

Hecouldgoalltheway · 2024-12-21T12:53:56-0500

I can see both sides. Imagine the justice system that was weaponized against Trump condemns you to death.

Also, if some piece of trash tortures and murders your loved one.....

If we could have faith in the system, then I'd be the most pro-capital punishment person on the planet, and I kinda am.

I also have next to zero faith in the judicial system currently, so.... I just don't know.

Fx51LP308 · 2024-12-21T13:33:27-0500

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I can see both sides. Imagine the justice system that was weaponized against Trump condemns you to death.

Also, if some piece of trash tortures and murders your loved one.....

If we could have faith in the system, then I'd be the most pro-capital punishment person on the planet, and I kinda am.

I also have next to zero faith in the judicial system currently, so.... I just don't know.

Which is why I'd much prefer it be in the hands of the jury than any of the others involved in the system. And why the structure of laws should be modified to make certain supreme offenses eligible for it. Not "automatic," but "eligible." And then have the jury decide to impose it or not

Hecouldgoalltheway · 2024-12-21T13:46:34-0500

Fx51LP308 said:
Which is why I'd much prefer it be in the hands of the jury than any of the others involved in the system. And why the structure of laws should be modified to make certain supreme offenses eligible for it. Not "automatic," but "eligible." And then have the jury decide to impose it or not

There are obvious problems with that too, though I mostly agree. If you watch the Derrick Chauvin trial, you can see how a perfectly innocent man can be crushed by a jury. If a corrupt judge and prosecutor won't allow evidence to be discussed, you can easily convict an innocent man. In his case, I believe his defense was actually complicit. It's the best chance you have of a fair trial, but can still be twisted against you easily. I still think we may have the best system worldwide, unless we do trals by combat. I can imagine a scenario that would make that better, and you can watch it every Saturday night ON PPV FOR ONLY $59.99!!

Sean the Nailer · 2024-12-21T14:05:18-0500

president carter is looking better and better each day, isn't he?

Methinks he'll be getting a Nobel prize in the near future. Seems the oBOMBination just stepped up in ranking too....

Whodathunkit?

Fig · 2024-12-21T15:07:45-0500

Fx51LP308 said:
OK. I'll agree to disagree. And I do. I'm all for the preservation of life when it comes to the unborn (i.e. "anti abortion"). Yes, everyone has a right to life, to be born and to grow up. But, once grown, there are some things one can do with their life (evil, horrific, horrible things etc.) that justify the "forfeiture" of that life. Ask yourself this question: "Are there crimes and circumstances for which the 'forfeiture of life' is that necessary and sufficient measure of justice?" If you believe no, then I can see you being opposed to capital punishment. If you believe yes, then you must believe in capital punishment. And, as you state above, "This isn't to say some people don't need kilt at all. They do." And I agree, there. They absolutely do. But, if not the govt. then who? As you'll see below, perhaps we leave the decision of to whom it applies and to whom it's administered to a jury of the peers. It is only then the govt's job to carry out the jury's order.

I also agree that the system is often corrupt and that people are unjustly condemned to death. But does that mean we should stop the entire practice because of that? Stop the practice, "if it saves one innocent life?" Gee, where have I heard that before?

Not having capital punishment is a denial of justice to the victims of the crimes committed that warrant it. It's all about justice for the victims and their survivors. Nothing to do with deterrence or recidivism or any of those things. It is, simply. that just punishment for the crime committed. And, yes, I can be a forgiving person. I can forgive the BG that murders my family member. But what I can't do is absolve responsibility for what they've done. They still have to pay for it.

All that said, I do think there are some things we can do to help reduce the corruption. For example, I really take issue with the way prosecutors seek the death penalty for "select" defendants. I would almost rather go back to the days where capital punishment would be automatic, tied to
the offense and the circumstances. But I guess that wouldn't work, these days. Still, I think the decision to seek should be out of the hands of the prosecutor. There could be options built into the laws that say, "This particular level of offense is eligible for CP" and the jury would have to determine if the offense met that threshold. Yes, the prosecutor still can select the particular charge to file (i.e. selecting the punishment) but, hopefully, there a much stricter standards for proving capital offenses than there are now.

I'm not against the death penalty because I'm a leftist, feel any empathy for criminals, or that I am against killing humans in general. I'm not, I don't, and I'm all for it. I do not deny some people need killing, nor would not hesitate to kill anyone who needed killing.

I'm against the death penalty administered by government based on purely libertarian and religious grounds. The arguments against are deep and vast and bolstered by mountains of evidence, which I would be happy to discuss with you across a fire with a whisky in my hand, but I'm too whipped to write it all out...

Not saying there aren't good arguments for it, or that I could change your mind, but I'm also not going to write a book or start a group.

Fx51LP308 · 2024-12-21T16:36:55-0500

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
There are obvious problems with that too, though I mostly agree. If you watch the Derrick Chauvin trial, you can see how a perfectly innocent man can be crushed by a jury. If a corrupt judge and prosecutor won't allow evidence to be discussed, you can easily convict an innocent man.

Or, that same jury can "acquit" him. Did you ever see the Paul Newman movie, 'The Verdict?" Granted that was a civil matter and Newman's client is the "plaintiff," but... The jury has one huge tool over which the judiciary has very little control, if any... "Jury Nullification." I, personally saw this in action when serving as a juror myself. Long story short, a biker gang got into a brawl and the complaint was that a "prodigal son" in that biker gang that was just visiting got into a one-on-one with a resident member, resulting in that member being cut very badly with a box cutter blade. The "prodigal son" defendant was arrested and charged with 6 different assault and weapons charges. They had all kinds of evidence (investigators found the blade in the grass, the blood on the clothing, the blood on the defendant's person, etc. etc.

Still, We, the jury acquitted him of all the original felony charges, but convicted only one one simple "misdemeanor" charge (that was added to the indictment after the trial had started - they knew they were in trouble). That charge was "simple assault," with the stipulation that there was "mutual consent" between them to start the brawl, reducing the penalty to the classic 30 days in jail. He had, probably, already served it pre-trial. The problem being, The prosecutor was totally incapable of "connecting the dots." He put out a whole ton of evidence and expected us, via "reverse jury nullification" to connect the evidence and reach guilty verdicts. Unh-Uh. Yes, a blade was found at the scene, and yes, it had the defendant's blood on it (the defense even stipulated to that). But did it have the defendant's "fingerprints" on it? Was the "victim's" blood on it? It was found in the grass around the brawl site. But did anyone witness the defendant actually possess the weapon, or draw it from their person? No such testimony. Did the two brawlers go into the brawl "clean" (no injuries) and stay "isolated" for the whole duration of the brawl, with both coming out injured? Apparently not, and they even flew in a witness to testify as to what happened in the brawl. He confirmed that several members attempted to intervene in the brawl. They were never totally isolated.

Hence, dots not connected, and the defendant was acquitted of all the felony charges. Only the one small "simple assault" charge where we determined there was "mutual consent."

Point being, the right jury can see through all the BS and make the right call. Just like they did in NYC with Daniel Penny. Whodathunk that one?

Hecouldgoalltheway · 2024-12-21T16:50:55-0500

Fx51LP308 said:
Or, that same jury can "acquit" him. Did you ever see the Paul Newman movie, 'The Verdict?" Granted that was a civil matter and Newman's client is the "plaintiff," but... The jury has one huge tool over which the judiciary has very little control, if any... "Jury Nullification." I, personally saw this in action when serving as a juror myself. Long story short, a biker gang got into a brawl and the complaint was that a "prodigal son" in that biker gang that was just visiting got into a one-on-one with a resident member, resulting in that member being cut very badly with a box cutter blade. The "prodigal son" defendant was arrested and charged with 6 different assault and weapons charges. They had all kinds of evidence (investigators found the blade in the grass, the blood on the clothing, the blood on the defendant's person, etc. etc.

Still, We, the jury acquitted him of all the original felony charges, but convicted only one one simple "misdemeanor" charge (that was added to the indictment after the trial had started - they knew they were in trouble). That charge was "simple assault," with the stipulation that there was "mutual consent" between them to start the brawl, reducing the penalty to the classic 30 days in jail. He had, probably, already served it pre-trial. The problem being, The prosecutor was totally incapable of "connecting the dots." He put out a whole ton of evidence and expected us, via "reverse jury nullification" to connect the evidence and reach guilty verdicts. Unh-Uh. Yes, a blade was found at the scene, and yes, it had the defendant's blood on it (the defense even stipulated to that). But did it have the defendant's "fingerprints" on it? Was the "victim's" blood on it? It was found in the grass around the brawl site. But did anyone witness the defendant actually possess the weapon, or draw it from their person? No such testimony. Did the two brawlers go into the brawl "clean" (no injuries) and stay "isolated" for the whole duration of the brawl, with both coming out injured? Apparently not, and they even flew in a witness to testify as to what happened in the brawl. He confirmed that several members attempted to intervene in the brawl. They were never totally isolated.

Hence, dots not connected, and the defendant was acquitted of all the felony charges. Only the one small "simple assault" charge where we determined there was "mutual consent."

Point being, the right jury can see through all the BS and make the right call. Just like they did in NYC with Daniel Penny. Whodathunk that one?

Ok, again, Derrick Chauvin committed no crime and has been sitting in max security prison for years.
A jury convicted Trump of 34 felonies for midemeanor crimes that were beyond the statutes of limitations, and not in the jurisdiction of the authority of the prosecutor, and on and on. Juries put innocent people in prison all the time. The jury only gets to see the evidence that the judge allows. When DNA hit the scene in the early 90's, as you may remember, we discovered that these DA's had, (in literally thousands of cases) fabricated and planted evidence, created false witnesses, and a dozen other dirty tactics. Many of those successful prosecutors went on to become judges themselves, fuck man, one of them became the vice president of the united states of America, and missed becoming president by a few million votes. A jury can only process the information they are given.

mosin46 · 2024-12-21T17:15:00-0500

a bit OT but re evidence manip by prosecution. rodney king-cnn (?) ran the whole tape that the jury saw 1x. after that it was shown publicly heavily edited. if you saw the orig,you wonder why the cops didn't just back off and empty their guns into the scumbag. the innocent verdict and edited film caused the usual amish riots. in OJ,they tried to frame a guilty man. george floyd evidence was buried to get a popular guilty verdict to appease the amish. daniel penny and rittenhouse are lucky they got rational juries. the whole system is corrupt on both sides going either way.

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