24-26" 223 AR vs 224 Valkyrie: need data

Subwrx300

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Jan 15, 2014
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Need some help guys. If anyone on reading this thread has a long barrel 223 Semi-auto (24-26" barrel), I'm curious how fast you can push a 69gr SMK/TMK accurately (~1/2-3/4 MOA CONSISTENTLY).

Swapped my AR barrel for a new Valkyrie 26" 7.5T tube and I'm at 3180fps with 27.8gr CFE223 and it's shooting .3"-.5" 4- shot groups. RE17 is faster but is a PITA to meter and tricky to tune. The same bullet in my 18" 223 Wylde was 2730-2750. But it's not apples to apples because if the barrel length. So I'm seriously asking to see if a LONG 223 can keep pace with the 224V. I've yet to see an apples to apples comparison (same barrel length and same bullet tuned for each barrel). Most of the time, it's an SPR Mod2 77gr 18" 556 (or similar) vs a 90gr hypothetical 224V load from a 24" barrel that very few people seem to have gotten to shoot well. That's like comparing a pistol AR to a service rifle built for F-TR.

I bought this barrel to prove the Valkyrie wrong: I mean seriously, it cant be THAT much different. But now with real data, actual cases to measure, running through Quickload and testing in the field, I've nearly flipped my position.

I'll be shooting this Valkyrie against my 20" Kreiger from 200-1100yds for personal test because it's the only reference I have. I'll shoot the same bullet (69 TMK) as fast and accurate as each barrel will allow.

Hopefully some of you can help with data from longer barrel 223's.
 
I'm shooting a 77 TMK in my 220 Thunderbolt AR at 3250 from a 24" Kreiger with tiny little groups.
Well that's almost what I was looking for. Super cool round BTW. I'm a bit surprised they didn't design the 224V a bit more like the Thunderbolt by shortening the neck and pushing the shoulder forward. But it's all splitting RCH's and detail in the throat/freebore. You did put a new caliber on my radar for future so thank you!

But I'd like to focus on the 223 Wydle/556 to get an objective measure of how big the difference is. The Thunderbolt takes that to an even different level.
 
I am shooting a 24” Krieger ar 223 Wylde lc case 450 cci primer 24.5 gr Benchmark seated mag length yields 3020 fps. I am not seeing any pressure signs but the load is slightly compressed and that’s why I stopped at 24.5 gr. The bullet is a 69 sierra tmk.
 
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I am shooting a 24” Krieger ar 223 Wylde lc case 450 cci primer 24.5 gr Benchmark seated mag length yields 3020 fps. I am not seeing any pressure signs but the load is slightly compressed and that’s why I stopped at 24.5 gr. The bullet is a 69 sierra tmk.
Awesome. That's inline with what Ive been able to price together from my Google Fu. So that would put you ~3060-3080 with a 26". That's within 100fps of the 224v; I see the point of being able to run heavy bullets at mag length, but that argument starts to get thin given the other small frame calibers (like the 22 Nosler, 220 Thunderbolt, 6mm AR, 6 Turbo, 223WSSM, etc etc and I'm sure a ton of others I've never heard of).

So, assuming that 100fps is negligible and you could technically push 80-90grainers from the 223 Wylde (single feed), the only major different between the 224V and other wildcats is factory support? That's essentially what Hornady and several others manufactures did the 6.5 Creed for the last 6-7 years right? And same with 6.5 PRC... Market the hell out of it and get momentum to keep it going forward until critical mass exists.

I've actually started to like the round but it still seems like there is some hype, mystery and misinformation rolling around with conflicting attributes: advertise 1300yds supersonic but to get that you'd need to live at 2000-3000ft with a 24" barrel. However, barrels are being built with 18"-20" in mind which defeats the purpose of the cartridge: max velocity for a high BC bullet. And to boot, the twist rate needs to be 6.5 or faster just to get those longer bullets to shoot but the first 6 months of production have pushed 8, 7.5 and 7 T barrels. Did Federal not test there ammo at range in the winter or at sea level?

But arguably the hardest part to swallow is the difficultly there seems to be in achieving reload combinations that work well for most rifles.

Am I alone in my confusion? Why haven't the other wildcats Ben pushed/supported this aggressively?

Now I want @padom 's 22Thunderbolt!! Lol
 
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Everything you said makes sense to me. I shoot 223 because it is easy to hand load for and also inexpensive. Prairie dog shooting is a favorite past time for me and the 223 flat out works. I can buy processed brass for 11 cents run it through the giraud, prime it 3 cents, powder it 8 cents, and seat a 50 gr. Zmax bullet 12 cents. So for 34 cents I have got match quality ammo. The last I checked 224 Valkyrie brass costs more than that.
 
Give it another year or more for the industry to figure out the 224V.

First off the available brass seems to be the current weak point. Lapua, Alpha, etc, should come out with a stronger heel at some point. That alone might give an extra 50-75 fps.

Reamers need to be optimized.

Next is rifling profiles and twist rates that work the best with the current bullets.

Needed are target bullets with thicker jackets.

Expect new powders developed just for this cartridge case.

Remember 224V was designed for fitting the heavies in a AR mag. There are other choices if you want to shoot the lighter bullets. I might add that if you want 224V then steer towards the longer barrel's, otherwise just get a 6.5G if you want short and handy, or live with the inevitable consequences of cutting the balls off your hot little round.

Furthermore don't expect this small case to be more than it is. It'll never measure up to the higher capacity 22 centerfires.
 
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I am using a 22" Bison Armory Fulcrum 1:6.5 twist barrel with 69gr TMK, CCI 41 (or 450), and 27.0gr of CFE223. I have a Griffin Recce5 suppressor on it. I'm at 2982fps. I killed 4 coyotes with it this past weekend at night with my thermal and the holes left in the coyotes was impressive. Pass throughs but huge devastation inside with tons of blood pouring out. Shots were just above the heart into the lungs. dead dead. Once I shoot up this batch, I'm going to try to load some at 27.5gr and 28.0gr. I'd like to get 3100fps if possible, and safe, and accurate.