Annealed brass opinion
- Thread starter Ragin_cajun
- Start date
I suspect he means accurately measured/dispersed energy and not that the case differences are compensated for.
If not, then hellifiknow lol
Because the time is consistent. On map gas I can assure you 1/10th of a second you’re not getting consistently because your watching for say the glow. But say 3/10ths vs 1/10th is a difference. Not saying induction is pure consistency. It’s not. But with a torch it’s definitely not
Don't need any high dollar tools to anneal.
It's been done for thousands of years without such equipment.
I prefer to run my red hot blade through a slave, for tempering the sword.
Brass cases being a bit different, I use a heat sink, caliber specific, in a lathe turning at low speed, apply map gas, a few seconds, to the neck shoulder, a slight dull color of red /pink starts on neck, pull with leather glove insert new case with non gloved hand and repeat.
Form lots of cases this way, works for me, and you can definitely tell when heavy case forming takes place. Made 250 6 ARC cases from Starline grendel basic straight wall cases.
Tumble them and ya have no head stamp super bright 250 pcs of 6mm ARC cases, when none are available.
Or 900 .510 Whisper cases when none are available. Or hybrid cases in 308, 6.5 CM,
8.6 Blackout, 358 Win. Etc. Plus 338 RCM made from 6.5 PRC, 35 Rem from 308, to 401 and 351 WSL, and 350 Rem mag. Plus a bunch of others most all required annealing....but no special equipment needed... I already have the lathe, but one could use a drill motor to turn the case.
But you can buy whatever ya want to anneal... or not... they're your cases, but it ain't rocket science.
It's been done for thousands of years without such equipment.
I prefer to run my red hot blade through a slave, for tempering the sword.
Brass cases being a bit different, I use a heat sink, caliber specific, in a lathe turning at low speed, apply map gas, a few seconds, to the neck shoulder, a slight dull color of red /pink starts on neck, pull with leather glove insert new case with non gloved hand and repeat.
Form lots of cases this way, works for me, and you can definitely tell when heavy case forming takes place. Made 250 6 ARC cases from Starline grendel basic straight wall cases.
Tumble them and ya have no head stamp super bright 250 pcs of 6mm ARC cases, when none are available.
Or 900 .510 Whisper cases when none are available. Or hybrid cases in 308, 6.5 CM,
8.6 Blackout, 358 Win. Etc. Plus 338 RCM made from 6.5 PRC, 35 Rem from 308, to 401 and 351 WSL, and 350 Rem mag. Plus a bunch of others most all required annealing....but no special equipment needed... I already have the lathe, but one could use a drill motor to turn the case.
But you can buy whatever ya want to anneal... or not... they're your cases, but it ain't rocket science.
Attachments
First principles:
YOU CANNOT GUAGE ANNEALING BY BRASS COLOR
Choose a different metric
Many annealing machines are automated. Every peice of brass spends the same amount if time in the heat.
You probably get a little more control over temp, but I doubt many if any machines can heat and reheat their coil as consistently as a flame maintains the same temperature.
They don't make MAPP gas anymore. They make map-pro which burns 10 percent hotter than propane but transfers heat better also.
Correct partially . Color change is an indication of heat signature and to some extent duration at temperature .
Consider the very nature of induction coil partial annealing ; One's case neck shoulder are fully surrounded and near instantly conduct the necessary heat ( duration is always variable and on the operator ) in order to partial anneal a case .
Believe ME ,I'm a BIG fan of induction malleability restoration . It simply isn't as fast multi case cycle wise . In order to do that faster multiple stations are required and runs into unwanted expense .
MY motto don't break what's not broken ,aim for consistence on a budget which one is comfortable with.
For ME Modifying My Annealeeze was more than affordable ,cycling #250-1K cases is very doable , in as short a time as I could practically afford . Some shooters use Bolt guns ( I do to ) and others Semi or Automatics ( I do to ) . The latter being a monster with an appetite ,needs additional feeding and attention .
MY problem too many Rifles ,as I also enjoy building or assembling them ,which ever the case might be .
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Color change is caused by chemicals on brass. That's one of the reasons diffrent companies brass turns diffrent colors and why brass with lots of firings that has only been dry tumbled stops changing colors. 
If we have to get to "theoretically" to indicate why one is more consistent. Then the ever so slight diffrence is irrelevant.
If we have to get to "theoretically" to indicate why one is more consistent. Then the ever so slight diffrence is irrelevant.
Some of those funny rainbow colors are just angstroms thick. A regular SEM can "burn" right through without being able to "see" them, and the typical EDX uses too strong of a beam to "see" them. We study these very thin surface layers with a technique called AUGER in case you were curious.
The color layers are often so thin and fragile, that they clean off easily with common case cleaning methods. We can find some factory brass that is absent of the rainbow colors due to their process steps including post heat treat cleaning.
Some companies leave the "rainbow colors" as a matter of showing visual evidence they did their final heat treat, and sometimes it is a contractual agreement between them and folks who buy their brass such that they are required to leave them.
Not all (raw material) cartridge brass is from the same sources, and various specifications can be made that might include various allowable amounts of trace contaminates.
Those various raw material sources are not common to all brands, and can result in big differences in those color layers and their thicknesses.
By and large, those colors are not harmful but the main point I am trying to convey is that they are also not standardized between brands of brass due to the differences in composition, allowable contaminates, and process methods. Try to avoid getting to wrapped up on the colors between different brands.
We only use the micro hardness as a proxy. The properties we are really interested in achieving with the heat treat are correlated to that hardness range, so we use the neck hardness instead because the direct measurements of those much more important values are not practical to measure on thin wall cartridge necks. Carry on.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and Happy New Year!
The color layers are often so thin and fragile, that they clean off easily with common case cleaning methods. We can find some factory brass that is absent of the rainbow colors due to their process steps including post heat treat cleaning.
Some companies leave the "rainbow colors" as a matter of showing visual evidence they did their final heat treat, and sometimes it is a contractual agreement between them and folks who buy their brass such that they are required to leave them.
Not all (raw material) cartridge brass is from the same sources, and various specifications can be made that might include various allowable amounts of trace contaminates.
Those various raw material sources are not common to all brands, and can result in big differences in those color layers and their thicknesses.
By and large, those colors are not harmful but the main point I am trying to convey is that they are also not standardized between brands of brass due to the differences in composition, allowable contaminates, and process methods. Try to avoid getting to wrapped up on the colors between different brands.
We only use the micro hardness as a proxy. The properties we are really interested in achieving with the heat treat are correlated to that hardness range, so we use the neck hardness instead because the direct measurements of those much more important values are not practical to measure on thin wall cartridge necks. Carry on.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and Happy New Year!
Color change is caused by chemicals on brass. That's one of the reasons diffrent companies brass turns diffrent colors and why brass with lots of firings that has only been dry tumbled stops changing colors.
If we have to get to "theoretically" to indicate why one is more consistent. Then the ever so slight diffrence is irrelevant.
NO Brass ,copper , zinc even steel changes or discolors with Heat applied ,not because of chemicals .
Different companies brass cases are subjected to different treatments ,is why some appear unpolished ( Because they are ) Military especially . Soldiers don't give a rats ass about shiny fodder ,function or polish wins matches or saves lives .
Commercial ammunition manufactures re-polish their brass after partial annealing . Most Euro producers DON'T ,unless exporting to the USA . Then only polish somewhat Lupua ,PPU, Norma three examples .
I've heard nonsense stating every company uses a different % of zinc or copper . Bullshit ,cartridge brass is almost 100% universally accepted as C26000 Cartridge Brass .
IF one is a large enough consumer ,additional alloys can be requested as some of those vary but again mainly due to regional copper and zinc mining facility's or the smelting facility itself . That equates to possible impurities .
Normal ratios appear below ,other trace elements can also be present such a silicon aka Si and aluminum Al .
Forged temperature is : between 732 and 843°C (1350 and 1550°F ).
initial Annealing of UNS C26000 cartridge brass alloys are annealed between 427 and 760°C (800 and 1400 °F ) That makes raw sheets . Now Remember this is PRIOR to punching and DRAWING brass pucks ,which cold hardens Brass . When the cartridge draw is completed ,Partial annealing takes place involving the neck and shoulder ,the two areas most prone too movement . Again by multi station induction heating .
| Cu | 68.5-71.5 |
| Fe | 0.050 |
| Pb | 0.070 |
| Other | 0.15 |
| Zn | 28.5 |
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Straightshooter1 is correct.
Some popular domestic and imported brass is also made of C24000 and C28000 or their source continent's equivalent, and there are also some proprietary custom specs as well.
You can always request the alloy to be adjusted in order to change the properties to suite the application, and when the values don't match the usual industry specs you just create your own.
Nothing to get excited about or worry over, all alpha phase brass will behave close enough for this discussion. No worries, carry on.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
Some popular domestic and imported brass is also made of C24000 and C28000 or their source continent's equivalent, and there are also some proprietary custom specs as well.
You can always request the alloy to be adjusted in order to change the properties to suite the application, and when the values don't match the usual industry specs you just create your own.
Nothing to get excited about or worry over, all alpha phase brass will behave close enough for this discussion. No worries, carry on.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
Yes different grades or specifications of Brass are available ,yet not all of it's small arms cartridge grade brass .
Manufacturer of cartridge brass available in wire, bar, and rod forms. Offered with 0.006 to 0.250 in. thickness and 0.125 to 48 in. width. Grades include 21000, 22000, 22600, 23000, 24000, 26130, 27200, 33500, 35300, and 42200. Anodizing, bending, cladding, deburring, forming, machining, milling, plating, polishing, and cutting are offered as secondary services. Suitable for heat exchangers, caskets, contacts, eyelets, grommets, couplings, vehicles, thermostats, springs, and shipbuilding applications. Serves electronics, telecommunications, aerospace, architectural, automotive, hardware, jewelry, and food industries. Meets ASME or ASTM standards and military specifications.
