I want to take my hand loading up a notch, help me pick a new press please.

Mean_Man

Mean_Man

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Dec 14, 2024
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#1
I got into hand loading loading .45acp, 9x19 and 5.56x45. Just making decent but plinking ammo, long story short I went for mostly LEE products and grabbed one of their Challenger presses which was a new thing at the time I believe that had the locking bushing to quick swap dies so I didn’t have to redo setup every time I changed a die….

Was still annoying and I hate single stage for doing a lot of ammo, BUT that press was good enough to get me going, learn and make some ammo.

Now I have shifted focus less on volume (thank goodness as that was the wrong tool for that job) and more on precision.

I have my doubts with the bushing system of that press…. And so I’m wondering where to start looking to make match quality top shelf ammunition. I have a set of Lyman .308 dies i inherited, I recently bought a .308 bolt action that’s heavily focused on long range accuracy.

Would I be wasting my time with that press? And if so, what’s an upper end of the bell curve value press that’s not going to break my wallet but I can rely on? I don’t have Dillon compound press money….and since this will be low volume, I’m absolutely more focused on accuracy and repeatability, so single stage is what I’m after here.
 
#2
My “cheap” LEE single stage makes great ammo. For a while I considered spending $ on a “better” reloading press, dies, etc.

I never did get a new stuff. I spent the money on primers, powder and projos. Suffice to say I believe my groups improved because I put more time into my shooting.

Are you looking for more volume? Personally I just buy pistol chow by the case and sell the brass to fund the rifle chow.

But I get it. My girlfriend has 100 pairs of good shoes but she’s out shoe shopping today. 😎👍

IMG_8866.png
 
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#3
If your talking precision, I would assume you are thinking single stage, in that case I think the best for the money is Redding presses with the revolving turrets, I think it is called G7 or something, If progressive I have always used Hornady but as you mentioned Dilion, there are better presses available if you have the coin.
 
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#4
eklarsen said:
If your talking precision, I would assume you are thinking single stage, in that case I think the best for the money is Redding presses with the revolving turrets, I think it is called G7 or something, If progressive I have always used Hornady but as you mentioned Dilion, there are better presses available if you have the coin.
Click to expand...
Yeah thinking single stage.

I won’t really know until I make a round or two of the .308 with the dies I have and just take some measurements with micrometers (not calipers)

I’m probably better off assuming there’s no slop in the press or bushings to focus on the right kind of dies…. I’m assuming a simple two die set like I have is less than ideal…

I’m assuming that because I didn’t even know what neck sizing mandrels and bushings were until recently…

Obviously uniformity of the brass and consistency are what I’m after. I plan on running either Sierra match king or Berger projectiles.

As I understand it the SMK ogive being a tangent type I believe it’s called is very forgiving but not aerodynamics optimized. And I think the Berger 185 juggernaut is the same but they also have a hybrid that combines aspects of both.

Point being I’m trying to ascertain what needs to go from good enough to match grade?
 
#5
I used a Lee press for years and then tought my brother to reload on it.
Between me and him using it with years of use and thousands of rounds of ammo it finally started showing signs of wear and had a little play in it at the ram to frame fit.
I replaced it with a Rockchucker Supreme press and that should last me the rest of my life.
Your lee challenger press is more than adequate for all but maybe the largest magnum rifle cases.
The Lee dies are just fine as well they just don't have all the bells and whistles of match die sets.
I have loaded some of my most accurate ammo with Lee dies and still us3 the collet neck dies on some cartidges.
 
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#6
i've been using the Redding T7 turret press for over 10 years now. Once dies are set, the loads are exact. I know some have graduated from this to the Area 419 Zero press, i looked at one at Scheels the other day and it's nice, but just don't think it would do a better job than what i'm getting from my Redding. I use the Redding Elite series of dies
 
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#7
Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.
 
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#8
db2000 said:
Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Spend money on better powder metering.
 
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#9
db2000 said:
Since you mentioned “take it up a notch”. The best investment I made was the Fx120i and AutoTrickler V4 combo. Cuts a significant amount of time. I don’t load volume on my single stage but even 50-100 at a time is so much quicker with the automated process. Then it’s off to the range.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing those are electronic powder dispensers? I have an older model RCBS ChargeMaster (I think the first one they came out with) It works okay, heck of a lot better than handle trickling a whole charge though if you used.... a charge thrower? I guess they're called and have it just a little shy of you're target, then hand trickled I swear it might be faster... *shrug*. For what I'm wanting to do i'll probably do something similar anyway as I noticed every once in a while it will throw a charge that's over or under by a tenth so I'll probably just use powder scoops that get me close and then hand trickle as I want the exact same in every case. I plan to get serious and take it as far as I can on my budget, like weighing and culling Lapua or Alpha brass (gotta get some) so that the heaviest and lightest get set aside, then taking H20 capacity measurements of each and every single case that's not culled from the batch of 100... unless maybe 20 deep into it I'm not seeing any variation. etc. etc. there's tedious but low cost things I figure I can control I have never bothered with just loading M193 and M855A1 clone loads, or 124gr +P loads..... did make some sweet sabot 9x19 ammo though that laughs at soft armor at 2400+ fps with a 41gr solid copper self turned projectile. That was an interesting load development. 5.7x28 eat your heart out.


How does one decide on match dies? far as neck mandrels and bullet seating stems?
 
#10
Press is perhaps the least important part of a reloading set up

I had an old red hornady pacific that I got in the late 1980s that made fantastic ammo. At some point, I gave it to my neighbor and “upgraded” to an RCBS rock chucker. I honestly think the old horny was more solid, but I had given it away and it was too late. For 50BMG, I also used RCBS

Then at some point, I had all of the other bling equipment like the amp annealer and Giraud trimmer so I figured I need bling presses too and I spent about $2500 on German PRAZIPRESS. Two of them.

They are works of art but again they do not make better ammo. Plain and simple. And getting them set up, gave me a fair dose of grief which I have documented elsewhere. My warnings are roundly ignored by all of the guys who have more money than brains and have convinced themselves they are getting the Ferrari of reloading presses.

If I were starting out reloading 308 today, I would be thinking about getting some kind of bushing die, I prefer the Redding type S for sizing. Micrometer dies don’t make a whole lot of difference, but if you found a set of the Redding competition ones I think you would be pleased with them. The sliding sleeve inside probably does help with bullet alignment although I remain a little skeptical how much difference that makes.

As another poster said, getting your powder charges to within one colonel is going to actually make a difference

As another poster said good quality components like LAPUA brass is going to definitely make a difference in the long run

And I would probably get some kind of flame annealer with a small hopper so that it is partly automated.

After my cases had been shot four or five times I would be looking at getting a trimmer and I am partial to the GIRAUD. That up your game in terms of case uniformity and ease of workflow.

If you don’t have one, get some kind of rotary or vibratory Tumblr with corncob and walnut media. It has tried and true. Do not use stainless steel pens they will fuck up your neck tension by a braiding the neck and cleaning off all of the carbon.

I also like to know where my lands are so if you don’t have one, you could consider getting the horny version of that

Expensive calipers are a goddamn waste, $20 made in China ones work perfectly fine , STARRETT and MITUTOYO are just for bling

You can’t tell if you’re making good ammo unless you have a Garmin to coronagraph your loads. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you’re not shooting past one or 200 yards but if you are a Garmin is indispensable these days.
 
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#11
Rock Chucker or T-7 is the answer. Although I load on a 419 Zero now, I made excellent ammo with a Lee Challenger and Lee dies. Attention to detail is the key. The Challenger takes a lot more of that attention.

Use the chargemaster and trickle up like you suggested. Hit it where 1 kernel of powder trips to the next number every time. No, you won’t have have 1 kernel accuracy, but it will be significantly closer than the unit can do on its own and plenty good for quality ammo.
 
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#12
Mean_Man said:
I'm guessing those are electronic powder dispensers? I have an older model RCBS ChargeMaster (I think the first one they came out with) It works okay, heck of a lot better than handle trickling a whole charge though if you used.... a charge thrower? I guess they're called and have it just a little shy of you're target, then hand trickled I swear it might be faster... *shrug*. For what I'm wanting to do i'll probably do something similar anyway as I noticed every once in a while it will throw a charge that's over or under by a tenth so I'll probably just use powder scoops that get me close and then hand trickle as I want the exact same in every case. I plan to get serious and take it as far as I can on my budget, like weighing and culling Lapua or Alpha brass (gotta get some) so that the heaviest and lightest get set aside, then taking H20 capacity measurements of each and every single case that's not culled from the batch of 100... unless maybe 20 deep into it I'm not seeing any variation. etc. etc. there's tedious but low cost things I figure I can control I have never bothered with just loading M193 and M855A1 clone loads, or 124gr +P loads..... did make some sweet sabot 9x19 ammo though that laughs at soft armor at 2400+ fps with a 41gr solid copper self turned projectile. That was an interesting load development. 5.7x28 eat your heart out.


How does one decide on match dies? far as neck mandrels and bullet seating stems?
Click to expand...
 
#13
secondofangle2 said:
Press is perhaps the least important part of a reloading set up

I had an old red hornady pacific that I got in the late 1980s that made fantastic ammo. At some point, I gave it to my neighbor and “upgraded” to an RCBS rock chucker. I honestly think the old horny was more solid, but I had given it away and it was too late. For 50BMG, I also used RCBS

Then at some point, I had all of the other bling equipment like the amp annealer and Giraud trimmer so I figured I need bling presses too and I spent about $2500 on German PRAZIPRESS. Two of them.

They are works of art but again they do not make better ammo. Plain and simple. And getting them set up, gave me a fair dose of grief which I have documented elsewhere. My warnings are roundly ignored by all of the guys who have more money than brains and have convinced themselves they are getting the Ferrari of reloading presses.

If I were starting out reloading 308 today, I would be thinking about getting some kind of bushing die, I prefer the Redding type S for sizing. Micrometer dies don’t make a whole lot of difference, but if you found a set of the Redding competition ones I think you would be pleased with them. The sliding sleeve inside probably does help with bullet alignment although I remain a little skeptical how much difference that makes.

As another poster said, getting your powder charges to within one colonel is going to actually make a difference

As another poster said good quality components like LAPUA brass is going to definitely make a difference in the long run

And I would probably get some kind of flame annealer with a small hopper so that it is partly automated.

After my cases had been shot four or five times I would be looking at getting a trimmer and I am partial to the GIRAUD. That up your game in terms of case uniformity and ease of workflow.

If you don’t have one, get some kind of rotary or vibratory Tumblr with corncob and walnut media. It has tried and true. Do not use stainless steel pens they will fuck up your neck tension by a braiding the neck and cleaning off all of the carbon.

I also like to know where my lands are so if you don’t have one, you could consider getting the horny version of that

Expensive calipers are a goddamn waste, $20 made in China ones work perfectly fine , STARRETT and MITUTOYO are just for bling

You can’t tell if you’re making good ammo unless you have a Garmin to coronagraph your loads. I suppose it doesn’t matter if you’re not shooting past one or 200 yards but if you are a Garmin is indispensable these days.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine is getting the new Caldwell unit that about to hit the market, they claimed it gave more data far as at multiple distances in flight it could tell you what the projectile’s velocity is, and thus could calculate the bullets BC if I recall correctly over it’s flight path or something to that effect. I just have an optical unit.
 
#15
Mean_Man said:
I got into hand loading loading .45acp, 9x19 and 5.56x45. Just making decent but plinking ammo, long story short I went for mostly LEE products and grabbed one of their Challenger presses which was a new thing at the time I believe that had the locking bushing to quick swap dies so I didn’t have to redo setup every time I changed a die….

Was still annoying and I hate single stage for doing a lot of ammo, BUT that press was good enough to get me going, learn and make some ammo.

Now I have shifted focus less on volume (thank goodness as that was the wrong tool for that job) and more on precision.

I have my doubts with the bushing system of that press…. And so I’m wondering where to start looking to make match quality top shelf ammunition. I have a set of Lyman .308 dies i inherited, I recently bought a .308 bolt action that’s heavily focused on long range accuracy.

Would I be wasting my time with that press? And if so, what’s an upper end of the bell curve value press that’s not going to break my wallet but I can rely on? I don’t have Dillon compound press money….and since this will be low volume, I’m absolutely more focused on accuracy and repeatability, so single stage is what I’m after here.
Click to expand...

OK ; IMO ,Here's when and where YOU decide and by doing so , it will either increase productivity or limit you as to what can be done .

A turret style press makes GREAT ACCURATE AMMUNITION ,as does a single stage but Only slower .

IF You load pistol .45 .9mm Etc. and shoot any volume ,a Turret is YOUR FRIEND and with some exception 5.56X45mm 7.62X51mm Aka .308 .

Top shelf ammo is nothing more than full fundamental adherence to details and either press is more than capable ,IF YOU ARE !.

Now days YOU must decide on YOUR volume and FUTURE volume . Turrets although cost more up front ,have fringe benefits down the road . Quality Dies as well as cases coupled with bullets and careful measurements ,MAKES TOP SHELF AMMO .

Way back when Mike Dillon first offered 550 upgraded RL 550 C , I switched and never looked back . I also acquired another #2 Dillon presses later on but still to this day use that original RL 550 for a multitude of tasks .

I also had the GOOD sense to purchase #30 tool heads and #20 powder dispensers ,along with Free extra parts rebuild kits from Mike and all necessary powder pucks for a myriad of calibers . A friend once told Me ,that I made #3 top sporting outlets look like a LGS .
Worked near all the time ,so when sales happened or when one could purchase a pallet of primers directly from the factory , I DID !.

I knew I'd retire one day and I also stock piled 42 Years worth of Pallet quantities of reloading essentials , so Now days only laugh when I see pricing of components . Because I'll NEVER need any .

MY point is simple YOU NEED A PLAN ;)
 
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#16
Gucci presses and dies are far better at separating guys from dollars than actually making better ammo in any meaningful way.

IMHO just pick a simple, solid, single-stage with as few bells and whistles as possible and spend the money you save on good components in bulk so you can work on honing your craft… that’s all it takes.

I load all my precision ammo on a little $100 Lyman Ideal press using normal, nothing-fancy dies and it kicks ass and all my ammo comes out awesome… my buddy uses a fancy Zero press and $500 a piece dies and all his ammo comes out like shit.

Like most things, it’s the Indian, not the arrow.
 
#17
As a 20 year single stage man, that says I'm deliberate and enjoy the hobby. Check out the review on affordable progressive presses. That will let you set multiple dies for one caliber and change the dynamic to faster or less stop and go.
 
#19
Your options:

1) Get a quality single-stage press like a Rock Chucker or, if you want to spend a little more on something like a Forster Coax.
2) Get a quality turreted press like a Redding T-7 or Lyman.
3) Spend a crap-ton on an upper-end press like a Zero Press or a SAC Nexus.

For where you're at, I'd recommend eliminating #3. This leaves options 1 and 2.


Single-stage Press:

- These will deliver fine ammo, but you suffer a little on throughput when you have to change dies.
- These will tend to be the lowest cost of the options.


Turreted Press:

- The Redding holds 7 dies, the Lyman holds 8. This allows you to "set and forget" all your dies since you don't have to muck with them when changing functions.
- Both are very steady - no slop like some cheaper turreted presses.
- One turret will easily handle 2 calibers for precision, and, depending on your process, potentially 3.
- When you get more calibers (beyond the 2 or 3), you can buy additional turrets and swap them out as needed.


What did I do?
I started with a Rock Chucker, got annoyed by changing dies between the steps for a single caliber, then moved up to a Redding T-7. I've since moved up to a SAC Nexus, which is... wait for it... a single-stage press. I still use my T-7 for the limited amount of pistol ammo I reload.

Why did I move back to a single-stage?
The SAC Nexus has quick-change plates for the dies that make it very easy to swap dies - not much different than turning a turret. The main reason I switched was that changing out the turret for different calibers is a bit annoying. I might give up a bit (might!) swapping between dies steps on one caliber, but I make up for any minor loss with the ease of swapping between any of the calibers I shoot. Not to mention that the Nexus is, frankly, a work of art.
 
#20
I have a MEC Marksman as well and have been happy with it, but I'm nobody special. I had been pining over a fancier press until I started reading about BR and F Class guys winning matches and setting records loading ammo with Rockchuckers. I agree money could be spent better elsewhere.
 
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#21
I went from the tried and true (used)Rock Chucker to the Forester co-ax, back to the Rock Chucker, and then bent over for the Area 419 turret. I get better consistency with the 419, and it is faster than the Rock Chucker.

Have fun.
 
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#22
Rocketmandb , Brings up a valid point . Most of us myself included , all started on a single stage ( in 1965 and old Pacific was what was ) . Later in early 70's RCBS Rockchucker and in early 90's Dillon RL550C . Later acquiring an XL 650 which had perhaps #300 rounds loaded on it , I knew the guy really well who owned it and he simply had other interest as well as priorities . So I bought that for a song and dance comparatively speaking ,with all his Dies plate heads and powder primers Etc. .

The point I'm dancing around is ; Eventually 90+ % of us went PROGRESSIVE . I reload #18 different calibers and have some multiple calibers setup for different bullet styles . So changing calibers on say the Dillon RL 550C takes 5 minutes ( unless changing primer size add an additional 5 minutes for that ) . Again comfortably I can load Pistol or Rifle at an easy pace of #300 an hour and up too 440 an hour . The XL 650 on pistol is realistically #600-650 per hour .

So kind of makes sense to go progressive right from the start ,nobody says you must load ,XXX #'s per hour or week and regardless they make just as good of ammo as brand D, H or R . Ditto with Dies .

I probably know more about reloading Die's than the machinist manufacturing them , Lord knows I should . I own well over a #200.

RCBS ,Hornady , Redding , Forester , which are all made to SAAMI Spec standards . NO I don't own a single Lee and they're also made to Spec .

The REAL reason I own so many Dies is , For years I've worked along side a company who specializes in coatings .
In particular BAM , AKA AlMgB14 .I'll fore go chemistry 101 ,it's Aluminum Magnesium and Boron in specific structure .
PLVD ,AKA Pulsed Laser Vapor Deposition , creates micron thickness coating which become synonymous too the metallic object which is exposed to the vapor inside a vacuum chamber . Once deposited it's nearly permanent . Far exceeds DLC specs .

Benefits Diamond Hardness ,with half the friction of Teflon ,in a super thin layer such as 2-4 μm .

OK what does this mean for You and I ; Dies which require NO lube , a Rifle barrel's Bore , CHAMBER THROAT and LEADE which retains it's integrity for 50K 250K rounds or more ? .

Problem has and is ,getting the coating inside a small cylinder !. Most anything , say such as an expander ball , a de-capping pin a TIN or Carbide cutting edge , NO problem . Extends cutting edge life 4-5 times . It's hard too fire a laser into a mixture down a small diameter cylinder and have it equally disperse , an even coating under vacuum .

OK that's WHY I have so many volunteer Dies ,as many have been subjected to experiments . ALL are still perfectly GOOD and are in Spec and I use them regularly to make MY ammo . Some I can even lube one case size it and do #40 more without lube .
They're simply NOT perfected . IF they were I might have a Leer Jet ;)
 
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