This will only hit the " new guy" looking for a chrono. Most of us aren't going to buy another chronograph just because... Garmin will have and has larger budget to push out updates etc.
Precision Rifle Gear New Athlon Rangecraft Chronograph-Garmin Xero Killer?
- Thread starter Steel+Killer
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The other thing is I hope they have tested the shit out of this thing and worked any bugs out before it hits the market. Because if they release it and reports come back that this thing doesn't work like it should, misses shots, or freezes up this thing will be toast.
Forgot to add the first YT videos that every YT channel is going to put out will be side by side comparison videos with the Garmin Xero, Lab Radar, and the Magnettospeed to see how close the FPS matches the other ones. It will be interesting!
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Yep, I think we are making some assumptions in terms of performance. I have not followed the Labradar but I assume if I have heard nothing, the performance has been comparable to the Garmin?
With a delivery date of the Athlon out in April I assume that is when they expect FCC type approval.
Using an RF/Antenna similar to the Garmin would speed things up a little.
Probably same power level, beam angle, in-beam trigger.
Display, button layout, and probably minor hardware differences between the Athlon and the Garmin.
Some internal components and boards maybe even made in same plant.
3rd parties for sub-assemblies and assemble in contracted plant.
Garmin might be using Taiwan labor and Athlon using Chinese labor.
Using an RF/Antenna similar to the Garmin would speed things up a little.
Probably same power level, beam angle, in-beam trigger.
Display, button layout, and probably minor hardware differences between the Athlon and the Garmin.
Some internal components and boards maybe even made in same plant.
3rd parties for sub-assemblies and assemble in contracted plant.
Garmin might be using Taiwan labor and Athlon using Chinese labor.
Basically the vast vast majority of made/assembled in USA products Garmin makes are for their automotive and aviation sectors. Most of the general consumer watches, gps hand helds, cycling computers, etc. are made in Taiwan and elsewhere. Garmin stuff works though, I have cycling computers that are 10+ years old, still work, been crashed dozens of times.
If this unit works well, they are going to sell truckloads of them at what with sales/coupons etc. will be a close to $300 price tag, but we won't know how they do for a few months when lots of them are out in the wild. Basically Garmin just got Garmin'd
It's sad but it is what it is, look at the Leofoto fiasco just a couple years ago but now they are supported positively here and a major sponsor of PRS.
Garmin is not perfect, their shooting and many consumer products do not have a fast track record of updates. Having used thier handheld GPS and cycling units for 30+ years they also don't respond to consumer requests and like most companies almost never add features after release. Their trap shooting device came out in 2019, hasn't changed since. Their archery sight came out in 2018, a "pro" version in 2021......hasn't changed since. I would not hold my breath on a new Garmin chrono every year. I could see them come out with maybe a HUD or something to integrate with. Their handhelds and cycling computers are the same, they have various tiers but most are lucky to get updated every 3-4 years. Watches are the only sector they are updating quickly because the consumer demands it and the competition is fierce with dozens of big hitter competitors.
Garmin has always been bad with handling data, exporting it, proprietary file formats, etc. Oddly the Xero has no options to change displayed data fields, this is something I can remember doing on Garmin GPS units 20 years ago. The app is not great, especially when it comes to tracking and organizing shooting sessions. Garmin could do a lot more integration to get weather, location, etc. info directly from the phone as well. Photos of groups, etc. basically all the things people want to do in a shooting/development session could be integrated.
The Athlon ability to work with a ballistic app, where you can easily store chrono sessions to a specific rifle/load profile and if you have an Athlon optic the ability to get holdover/yardage info for that scope is handy. It's also in theory better sealed, being not just water resistant like the Garmin but also dust rated (IP67 vs IPX7). Not sure I really think the two side buttons are a great idea. Rifle mounted they could be hard to access (depending on the mount side), and on a small light table tripod side buttons might not be great to use. It's also super easy to erase a bad shot, or errant shot, though to be fair I don't find having to do that often with the Garmin.
I do with they'd both abandon reverse LCD displays, some idiot thought they were tacticool 15 years ago and we can't escape the stupidity to this day. The only lighting where negative displays have a slight advantage is in full sunlight at the right angle, in every other lighting condition it forces the user to use more backlight and reduces runtime.
If this unit works well, they are going to sell truckloads of them at what with sales/coupons etc. will be a close to $300 price tag, but we won't know how they do for a few months when lots of them are out in the wild. Basically Garmin just got Garmin'd
It's sad but it is what it is, look at the Leofoto fiasco just a couple years ago but now they are supported positively here and a major sponsor of PRS. Garmin is not perfect, their shooting and many consumer products do not have a fast track record of updates. Having used thier handheld GPS and cycling units for 30+ years they also don't respond to consumer requests and like most companies almost never add features after release. Their trap shooting device came out in 2019, hasn't changed since. Their archery sight came out in 2018, a "pro" version in 2021......hasn't changed since. I would not hold my breath on a new Garmin chrono every year. I could see them come out with maybe a HUD or something to integrate with. Their handhelds and cycling computers are the same, they have various tiers but most are lucky to get updated every 3-4 years. Watches are the only sector they are updating quickly because the consumer demands it and the competition is fierce with dozens of big hitter competitors.
Garmin has always been bad with handling data, exporting it, proprietary file formats, etc. Oddly the Xero has no options to change displayed data fields, this is something I can remember doing on Garmin GPS units 20 years ago. The app is not great, especially when it comes to tracking and organizing shooting sessions. Garmin could do a lot more integration to get weather, location, etc. info directly from the phone as well. Photos of groups, etc. basically all the things people want to do in a shooting/development session could be integrated.
The Athlon ability to work with a ballistic app, where you can easily store chrono sessions to a specific rifle/load profile and if you have an Athlon optic the ability to get holdover/yardage info for that scope is handy. It's also in theory better sealed, being not just water resistant like the Garmin but also dust rated (IP67 vs IPX7). Not sure I really think the two side buttons are a great idea. Rifle mounted they could be hard to access (depending on the mount side), and on a small light table tripod side buttons might not be great to use. It's also super easy to erase a bad shot, or errant shot, though to be fair I don't find having to do that often with the Garmin.
I do with they'd both abandon reverse LCD displays, some idiot thought they were tacticool 15 years ago and we can't escape the stupidity to this day. The only lighting where negative displays have a slight advantage is in full sunlight at the right angle, in every other lighting condition it forces the user to use more backlight and reduces runtime.
If this is possible I WILL BE selling my Xero. I bring multiple guns to the range to load develope and bounce from rifle to rifle to keep mirage from my suppressors to a minimal.
I feel that is something that could be pushed software side. They are in my opinion...
A. To lazy and don't care enough to listen THAT much.
B. The current leaders in features in a package like this and are not threatened.
Hopefully, this makes them give us the rest of what we want. If the new one lets us pause, resume merge/continue with an old string. I will ditch my Garmin. Something we have asked for several times, but they refuse to do it.
A better app would be nice as well. One that can actually control the Xero from the app so I can use my tablet or phone and not have to touch the Xero. The app is just a lame data storage program.
We know you are reading this thread Garmin. You were reading the last thread when it was your chronograph being talked about.
A. To lazy and don't care enough to listen THAT much.
B. The current leaders in features in a package like this and are not threatened.
Hopefully, this makes them give us the rest of what we want. If the new one lets us pause, resume merge/continue with an old string. I will ditch my Garmin. Something we have asked for several times, but they refuse to do it.
A better app would be nice as well. One that can actually control the Xero from the app so I can use my tablet or phone and not have to touch the Xero. The app is just a lame data storage program.
We know you are reading this thread Garmin. You were reading the last thread when it was your chronograph being talked about.
The one thing I would love to see is bc values and taking the environmentals for that day and I guess continuing a string. I think it would be a perfect unit that way but garmin is top dog I can't see the athlon taking the throne other than price.......
When your HQ is in Switzerland you’re a Swiss company. I’m well aware that they started in the US and then moved the HQ to Switzerland.
Athlon started in the US and is still a US company. So if you want to have a dick measuring contest of which company is more American then it’s the one with its HQ here.
Garmin LTD is in Switzerland. Garmin is the main company…and is still located in the US. Reread what I wrote.
I’m not measuring shit faggot. I’m telling you what it is. Garmin in Switzerland is where it’s legally registered, Garmin in Kansas is where the operations happens at.
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I think it’s also important to note that only about a quarter of their employees are in the US. They have about twice as many employees in Taiwan than the US and the rest are in other various countries. Not shitting on Garmin here, just adding perspective.
Edit: That number also depends on where you look. Even the info Garmin puts out on how many employees they have fluctuates depending on what article you read.
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I think think the xero is a minor blip in garmin product line. It could dissappear tommorow they may not notice. For all we know they could have sold some of the details to Athlon. It will be a standard by what others are judged.
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That’s probably true of any single consumer product from Garmin, but they definitely sold a boatload of Xeros and will continue doing so. I doubt they’re purposely ceding ground just because.
I will buy the Athlon, if it is not 600€ in Europe.
That thing that Garmin does not have, but Athlon has, is that ballistic software, just like it has on FX True Ballistic.
Garmin is just a radar, but Athlon gives you more, and less money.
Will see is that radar as good as Garmin, that is dope.
On FX is also good, when you upload the best software on it, i live in Finland, and there is NO for the US option
on the FX upload program. but who the F is looking at my FX, is there US version or that BS eu version, that is like
half the power of the radar that you have in US version, now that FX work´s like it should.
That Athlon would be so qute, so small and looks good, and if it has Garmin radar power, it is going to be hit on the market.
Is there any date when these are available?
That thing that Garmin does not have, but Athlon has, is that ballistic software, just like it has on FX True Ballistic.
Garmin is just a radar, but Athlon gives you more, and less money.
Will see is that radar as good as Garmin, that is dope.
On FX is also good, when you upload the best software on it, i live in Finland, and there is NO for the US option
on the FX upload program. but who the F is looking at my FX, is there US version or that BS eu version, that is like
half the power of the radar that you have in US version, now that FX work´s like it should.
That Athlon would be so qute, so small and looks good, and if it has Garmin radar power, it is going to be hit on the market.
Is there any date when these are available?
Athlon shot show rep has been telling people end of March beginning of April in the US.
Yep for sure, If you look at Garmin's Q3/Q4 revenue, over half of it is from Outdoors and Fitness, both split about evenly, the rest is marine, aviation, and auto. Their biggest gains are coming in the fitness and outdoors areas, mostly from wearables.
Just 1 quarter of Garmin's revenue from outdoor and fitness is almost $900 million dollars at a ~30% margin. Even if they sold 100,000 chrono's every 3 months that's still a drop in the bucket compared to the total. It all adds up though, and they have a good opportunity to integrate into a HUD, watches, GPS units, etc. if they really want to pursue it.
The sad part is they got out integrated by Athalon, they have no ballistics option, no profiles, or ability to integrate with their other (or other company's) devices or even auto-populate weather/location etc. from the app. Perhaps that will be the "pro" version upgrade.
I wouldn't give Athlon the victory yet. Athlon hasn't started selling it yet, and we don't really know how well it will integrate with other products. Garmin can write an update for the software to do the same thing and might actually do a better job of integration. Garmin hasnt had a real competitor in the chronograph game for a year now. But competition is good for all and I hope the Xero improves because of Athlon's attempt to get into the outdoor electronics scene.
I ordered one on euro optic’s preorder.
The way I see it, Athlon has to do well with something like this, they invested money into the development. It can’t flop, because the shooting market is their primary and only real customer base.
Garmin on the other hand, could stop supporting the software entirely in a year or two, and see the impact of it as nothing more than a rounding error on their bottom line.
The way I see it, Athlon has to do well with something like this, they invested money into the development. It can’t flop, because the shooting market is their primary and only real customer base.
Garmin on the other hand, could stop supporting the software entirely in a year or two, and see the impact of it as nothing more than a rounding error on their bottom line.
Seems like Kestrel kind of dropped the ball on getting something like this out there. They have to regret buying magneto speed I would think.
Probably not, Kestrel did not start in the shooting sports segment. Like Garmin they started somewhere else and saw a niche they could sell to. They had the manufacturing and engineering for portable measuring instruments already laid out. Kestrel and Garmin are in a much better position and dont have as much of their business leveraged in chronographs or shooting electronics.
Athlon on the other hand, they had to go to China and find an electronics manufacturer that could create a Xero clone. So I really wonder how much input or control they dont have with the method they brought a chrono to market. They will get hurt the most when Tariffs against China start, since all but a couple optics they sell are not produced there.
Athlon on the other hand, they had to go to China and find an electronics manufacturer that could create a Xero clone. So I really wonder how much input or control they dont have with the method they brought a chrono to market. They will get hurt the most when Tariffs against China start, since all but a couple optics they sell are not produced there.
A caveat to this is that Trump ain’t fuckin around.
He’s tarrifing Taiwan too, specifically electronic components. Taiwan is where the Garmins are made. Garmin being global company and a company of more than 19-55 people unlike Athlon, might be able to move manufacturing without it effecting prices.
Athlon though might have to step carefully.
I hear what you are saying, but I would think at this point they are heavily invested in shooting sports since they have a whole division devoted to ballistics. I can't imagine they bought Magneto Speed for the target indicators and the Xero made the Magneto Speed Chorney about as useless as tits on a hog IMO
Yeah seems like all of magnetospeeds products are getting a butt kicking. Now they seem to have brought those same people into the Kestrel end which makes little sense to me.
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I fell for the $200 target indicator just in time for other less expensive indicators to hit the market. Those things are ludicrously overpriced.
Thanks, I gotta order my 7mm back country rifle first to truly see how this thing works.
That's what I was thinking. the hardware is easy, go to your local chip dealer and buy what you need. Reverse engineering the software, not so much.
Exactly. How many updates should we expect in the first year? Garmin pushed out at least a dozen.
I'm keeping my Xero. Athlon said no to restarting existing strings.
Amazing. That one software improvement could have be a huge marketing/ selling point.
I'm probably the minority requesting this feature but I could of used that feature today. Load developing 2 rifles. Shoot gun #1, move over to gun #2, shoot it, go back to gun #1, repeat.
I think they'll bring the price of the Xero down a hefty bit they've no doubt got an absolutely massive margin on that thing right now.
I was manufacturing doppler radar/LiDar units in ruggedized cases that are installed on big ag tank sprayers for measuring the volume in the tank at a BYD factory for 60$ a piece retail(I think the units were around $35 COGs pre first round of Tariffs).
I'm sure their sensors and software are a little more heavy on the tuning end but they also dont have to support a big centralized platform and all the big data stuff on the other end of it.
Honestly even the Athlon unit is probably huge margins at its current price point.
I was manufacturing doppler radar/LiDar units in ruggedized cases that are installed on big ag tank sprayers for measuring the volume in the tank at a BYD factory for 60$ a piece retail(I think the units were around $35 COGs pre first round of Tariffs).
I'm sure their sensors and software are a little more heavy on the tuning end but they also dont have to support a big centralized platform and all the big data stuff on the other end of it.
Honestly even the Athlon unit is probably huge margins at its current price point.
Garmin doesn't use OEM manufacturers in China. Garmin consumer products are built in Garmin owned factories by Garmin employees in Taiwan.
Thank you for the clarification and thanks to Garmin for engaging in a public forum such as this! Much respect!
I am going to ask a couple questions, and I understand if you aren't at liberty to answer them, but I figured why not.
1. Is there a Xero II on the near horizon?
2. Has Garmin ever thought about getting into optics specifically ones that integrate laser range finders?
Thanks!
