Lol, no, just like I'm not using honda transmission case bolts as a case study on how to tighten ring cap screws. I'm relying on KAC, Hakan, Geissele, and Nightforce for advice, there.
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Wet Mounting Scope Mounts - Where It All Started
- Thread starter matt2143
- Start date
Were comparing a transmission case removal for reman repair effort to ring cap screws, so why not?
Can we skip the dick-measuring contest, and get back to the original topic?
Some dude is talking about transmissions. I'm talking about scope mounting. He does this in every thread about the topic. I don't care about how much money he made fixing busted Hondas. This is about scopes. Trying to find some esoteric bullshit like tranmission casings in an attempt to provd the exception to the rule is absurd. Okay. Ive been proved wrong. IF I ever buy some old tech gas car, I'll remember...if it's a honda. Don't lube trans case bolts. Happy?
Carol Shelby was well aware of this.Did you measure bolt stretch? How did you quantify that the tension was indeed equal? Dry on dry threads will result in un-equal torque across fasteners.
The relationship between torque and tension is stabilized by lubricating the threads.
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View attachment 8604110
There is a preponderance of data suggesting strongly that lubricated threads produce a more consistent relationship between torque and tension.
Yes, and I mount my Nightforce scopes exactly how Nightforce recommended. Loctite the ring cap screws.
There’s an off chance our dear @308pirate has been pulling T H E I S-grade shenanigans for years.
But I doubt it.
I think @E. Bryant (among others) would have caught him by now.
@JWG are you, ah, an engineer by trade?
But I doubt it.
I think @E. Bryant (among others) would have caught him by now.
@JWG are you, ah, an engineer by trade?
4 pages and you don’t know whether to lube or not? Come on man you got to lube! Lube the base, lube the rings/mount and lube the ring cap screws. If you don’t the rifle loses zero if you sneeze on it or if you slam your unlubed Honda door near it! Lol
Well, here he is over half a decade ago talking about Honda transmissions again trying to equate it to the topic at hand.
Honestly. By the time I mount it , no lube is needed
I've seen nightforce rings seperate at the bottom of the screw holes in the ring caps. Cap popped right off. The screws held though.
Nightforce doesn’t have failures. Just user error
Pretty much this. I've read alot of retarded threads on this site over the last 25 years or so....but this one may take the cake.
Hakan spuhr should be the last fucking person on the planet anyone should listen to about fastners. He uses the shittiest quality money can buy.
Here is what happens. When you torque down a fastners you are elogating ( stretching) it out. The elastic properties of most steel are usually not very good. In many critical applications fastners have a cycle life of 1, for this reason. Witness marks are not for future install but to ensure the fastners has not backed out, it's a form of inspection.
There are so many factors that can cause issues, saying it's because you need to wet the clamp is pure retardation. Scope issues, scope tube straightness, receiver straightness, rail straightness, the tolerance from everything from a 1913 rail to the clamp, the type of clamp, the bearing surface of the clamp, the size of the fastners, the torque values, how many times you have cycled then , ect ect ect ect. Then add in user error and people are chasing their tails.
When you wet a fastner it generally reduces friction resulting in a much higher torque value than indicated. A properly speced torque value taking into account the material, size and application does not need thread locker. Even in applications where vibration is present. You may have to torque it to the point of it becoming a one use fastners but it is what it is depending on application. Safety wife may be called for due to critical failure risk, but should not be needed all things being equal. I spent over a year running a multi million dollar fastner study for a federal agency and learned more about this shit than I ever want to know. The big one being, most grades and specs are bullshit, and unless you buy from a respectable US manufacture who retains data sheets and certs, you are probably getting the cheapest Chinese garbage yum sim pumped out at the end of his 30 hour shift.
Based on my over a dozen spuhr mounts over the years, I can with 100% confidence say Hakan is a cheap bastard using The shittiest fastners only rivaled by tikka. Probably from the same shitty vendor.
^^^ This. Witness marks are not for return to position it is to let you know if they moved. Safety wire is to try to prevent movement and oil is a lubricant that alters torque reliability.
Well guess what, you’re arguing with an engineer & SME.
Well it looks like he’s really gotten into your head, huh? Who cares?
As to wet mounting the scope rings or base to the rail, I’ll probably do it on my next setup. It makes some sense, but Not going to throw out he baby with the bath water.
Why is sex lube cheaper than gun lube? That's the real question we should all be asking.
Because gun guys are notorious for buying the next, newest newly newness with extra new.
And this thread is a perfect example of why that is. lol
If I need my transmission rebuilt, I'll defer to him.
Thats what he said his expertise is in. Far be it from me to argue with a tranny SME.
His expertise is fasteners. You’re latching on to the tranny part in an almost Freudian way.
Are we still talking about transmissions? I mean I am a little disturbed after clicking on @DeathBeforeDismount last post.
Diddy got to move that 1000 bottles
If they did come out with some sort of "scope ring mounting lubricant," don't fall for it. Just go in the kitchen section of your local department store and get non-caloric silicone based kitchen lubricant or Griswold's Sled Wax.
Wow, this strayed wildly off course. Needless to say we don’t need to over think the fastener state/ type, etc. as we know the mount shifts left to right and greasing the mating surfaces fixes the issue. If you don’t believe it happens, spend $5 in ammo and test it yourself, anyone can do it in five minutes on the range.
Rob01, since you didn’t test it and you come into the thread making fun of it, I think you should rethink your behavior here. It just makes you appear more irrelevant with each post.
I have nothing to sell. Just sharing information that has been validated by dozens of engineers across pretty much all the main line optics/mount manufacturers. Choose to believe it or not, make fun of it if you choose, I could care less. I’m about shooting and teaching. I do both every week, I don’t really ever post anything on the hide but just recently this topic surfaced again and since I started the discussion I figured I would jump in here.
Rob01, since you didn’t test it and you come into the thread making fun of it, I think you should rethink your behavior here. It just makes you appear more irrelevant with each post.
I have nothing to sell. Just sharing information that has been validated by dozens of engineers across pretty much all the main line optics/mount manufacturers. Choose to believe it or not, make fun of it if you choose, I could care less. I’m about shooting and teaching. I do both every week, I don’t really ever post anything on the hide but just recently this topic surfaced again and since I started the discussion I figured I would jump in here.
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