Precision Rifle Gear Precision Build Questions

Scope is up to you. I wouldn't run either of those myself, but I'm not looking through it.

You can calm down on the reloading. Buy quality brass and don't load it to primer piercing levels, and annealing becomes much less important. I have found that I use the annealer much more often making brass I can't buy than just from a few loadings.

Dasher is easy. There's no difference doing a dasher rather than 308.
I'd get started right and get into the Redding type C bushing dies. Don't bother neck sizing, just need a full length sizer and a seating die. You'll need a few bushings to set neck tension to your liking.

I like a quick tumble clean. To be honest more often than not I just wipe my brass with a rag.

Most of the time guys have issues with ultrasonic cleaning is actually corrosion between the bullet and the case. Tumbling leaves carbon inside the case, creating a layer between the copper and brass.
If you're going to clean them squeaky clean, just need to wax your bullets so they don't end up stuck to the cases. This varies a lot with heat and humidity, but I see it pop up over and over down south across all the forums. Load shoots perfect, 3 weeks later it's all over and primers are randomly falling out of cases...

There's a mile long Dasher reloading thread in the reloading section. Go read on loads.


I'm a can guy myself. Won't shoot a brake. Lots of guys like the minimal recoil. I'll take a tiny bit of recoil for zero blast.

Razor. Your Dillon is plenty capable of PRS level precision although I would recommend separating prep and loading. Ask 3 people about trimmers and you'll get 4 opinions. Giraud, RCBS, Henderson, Hornady, they'll all work. Buy quality dies, brand not super important. Tumbler. Pick a good quality bullet, add Varget until you hit your desired velocity, play with seating depth a little and call it good. Maintain consistency in your process and it will shoot well. Focus more on your practice and less on pursuing 0.0001" groups from a bench.

You're on the right track, fantastic idea to start with taking a class. No huge red flags jump out, but since you asked:

Optic: If a Gen II Razor HD 4.5-27x56 was in the cards, it's hard to recommend something so far separated as the Arken, or even the current inexpensive community darling, the DNT. The inexpensive optics have come a long, long way - if you end up with one, and get it mounted up plumb in a quality mount with proper torque, you'll probably be fine to get started. But yes, you can and should expect to get less optical performance in challenging lighting conditions, it will be harder to see shot-up gray targets next to brown dirt and rocks, when the mirage gets to boiling you may struggle, etc. Hopefully, one of the best things you'll do at that class is have a chance to really verify if the scope you select is tracking properly, as in, giving you exactly 10 mils when dialed to 10. If not, you can enter the percentage error into your ballistic solver of choice, not the end of the world, but not ideal. In short, if you can swing it, nice glass is a quality of life improvement that I'd recommend if you can swing it. If so, there's a bunch of other optics in the current MSRP range of that Gen II Razor that you might consider. If there's cost pressure, ammo/training/match fees are an easy priority.

Reloading: I'd stick with the presses you have now, honestly. If you enjoy the discipline and want to hit a bunch of local matches, being able to crank out a few hundred rounds on your Dillon is an incredible thing, even if you're just using it for brass prep. For dies, if I had to start over with a new caliber, I'd at least try to get one of the new style sizing dies (bushing or otherwise) that only works the neck as much as it needs to be expanded back to set neck tension only - you won't see anyone crimping rounds for precision rifle. Many of the new style dies have an expander mandrel built in (SAC, Area 419, etc) in lieu of an expander ball, and that's the easy button. Since you have a Dillon, you could also just pull the expander ball out of a standard sizing die and run a separate expander mandrel die as another operation. Your basic trimmer and tumbler are fine, and you might not need to do a whole ton of trimming with Dasher anyway. You didn't mention how you were measuring powder charges, though: if anything, I'd focus here if you don't have something that's repeatably good to 0.02 grain.

Dasher: Hard to argue for your stated use. If your 737R is cut for AW mags, I'd recommend the gray ops CNC AW Dasher mag. When I'm picking up brass at local matches, folks overwhelmingly shoot Alpha Dasher brass. From that consensus, projectile choice is all over the map, though. To start, whatever 100-109ish grain match bullet you can get a few hundred of. For powder, I'd encourage something like Varget that's relatively temperature stable, and stay away from the top end of pressure.

Barrel and Device: That's a fine choice. I prefer a 22-24" for suppressed use, and I don't shoot rifles unsuppressed at all if I can help it. I will so very happily leave 100FPS and 10-20% reticle movement on the table in trade, with a 20+ pound competition rifle it just isn't moving enough to prevent me from seeing what I need to see after the shot, and the quality of life gains from not concussing myself and everyone around me can't be overstated. I would make sure that Saker has a good, repeatable mounting system, though: Looks like it's a Charlie pattern and you could use "Plan B" to get a nice taper+threads system, works with muzzle devices from a whole ton of quality vendors. If I didn't have TBAC CB gear, I'd happily use Plan B instead, it's a great design. If your OG JAE can accept an MTU, that's a fantastic profile.

You don't need anyone to put it together. Get a prefit mailed to your house, and torque the barrel yourself.

I'd start with a 6CM and shoot factory ammo. Eliminate the variables and focus on you as a shooter. You can reload for the 6CM if you really want to, but I'd say burn out at least one barrel.

I'd go with a different chassis that is more configurable, but if the JAE is all you got, then go with that.

Between Arken & G2R, I'd go the Razor route. I've had a couple G2Rs that were good, but I would go a different route today - pending your budget.

Optic:
Do yourself a favor and get it in MIL. Your PRS class will be full of instructors and students who think and speak in MIL. It's not hard to learn, it is time. As for the specific scope at $2k (I thought we were closer to $4k just looking at MSRP, but you're right, they're way cheaper on the street), you're going to get the full spectrum of recommendations, especially if you ask in the dedicated optics forum. I've enjoyed the Leupold MK5HD 5-25x56. That particular optic does have a 35mm tube, so mounts are a little less common. For mounts, the 1.5" high Area 419 or Hawkins have both been great, I'd pick whatever is in stock.

Reloading:
There's no doubt you can significantly increase your speed and precision in your powder charge by going with a high-end electronic setup. The various automated-thrower-and-trickler-over-a-balance solutions like the AutoTrickler, SuperTrickler (I'm sure there's more, I'll tag in for help here) are going to spit out a charge that's accurate to the kernel of Varget in seconds, repeatably, over your entire reloading session when properly set up. That's been a game changer the last few years. If you enjoy the meditation of manual balance beam charge weighing, and you've been measuring your muzzle velocity with a quality chronograph over a large enough sample size to be sure that your standard deviation of muzzle velocity is in the single digits... I wouldn't change happy.

Chassis:
You didn't ask me, but hey, the OG JAE's are cool. Heavy is good in this game, if it fits you well, have at it. I'm also a filthy Manners stock enjoyer and my reach to the trigger is an easy half inch longer than it should be, so perhaps take my encouragement with a grain of salt.

Muzzle Device:
I'm not familiar with the ASR but I looked it up, I generally don't like or recommend anything with secondary retention teeth, they're not needed in this application and can cause unintended consequences. That said, if yours is working properly, you have a spare ASR device for this new barrel, and you don't have a zero shift every time you mount/remove the suppressor (to clarify - of course it's different suppressed and unsuppressed, but when you put the can back on after cleaning, does your suppressed zero remain), then I'd rock what you have for now. You could remove the ASR mount out the back of your can and install a Plan B adapter, and I think that's a great system, but run what ya have until you see trouble worth correcting.

$2k for a gen 2 razor hurts my soul. At the ~2k mark, I'd look for a used Minox ZP5 or used Gen 3 Razor.

For barrel installation, if you order a prefit and an action from the same place, most will just torque the barrel for you. Obviously do what you want, I'd just avoid paying an additional fee for something that takes less than 5 min.

You may want to consider the 6 gt with 108-115 bullets. Also Hornady custom precision dies work well. My Brux 1-7.5 twist 6 gt throws 115 dtac’s at 2800 into 1/4 inch @ 100 using 6.5 Staball and Cci 450 primers

Havoc35 said:

I have a Lyman Turret and a Dillon XL750 but from what I understand the concentricity/perpendicularity of these aren’t up to snuff for precision reloading.

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These are both perfectly fine. I'd use the XL750 with separate processing and loading toolheads like @JaoeyP recommended

Havoc35 said:

as far as dies go, I can only find Redding S series in 6 Dasher

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Type S are good, my preference in that price range is LE Wilson FL w/ bushing though. They make Dasher

Havoc35 said:

-@Secant, the cost is very close if not better to have it built up especially considering tool cost

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Just buy the 737 from Impact & ask them to torque one of Wade's barrels on for you. Or Area 419 is 3 hours from you. You can kick the vice down the road until you need to rebarrel

Havoc35 said:

Since the 737R already has 20MOA built into it, is it recommended for the PRS ranges to add an additional 20MOA or just leave it? It doesn't look like you need to cantilever the scope out so the standard mount is what I should be looking at?

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Not sure about others but I feel that 20 total is enough and I use zero moa mounts on my 737Rs

oldrifleman said:

Not sure about others but I feel that 20 total is enough and I use zero moa mounts on my 737Rs

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I use a zero moa Spuhr with my Impact 737R, too.

Yeah, 0MOA mounts are just fine for your application. Standard versus cantilever - the Area 419 mount has pretty efficient rail usage, easy to recommend the standard mount for your 737R.

Char'ed Cuterie said:

Optic:
Do yourself a favor and get it in MIL. Your PRS class will be full of instructors and students who think and speak in MIL. It's not hard to learn, it is time. As for the specific scope at $2k (I thought we were closer to $4k just looking at MSRP, but you're right, they're way cheaper on the street), you're going to get the full spectrum of recommendations, especially if you ask in the dedicated optics forum. I've enjoyed the Leupold MK5HD 5-25x56. That particular optic does have a 35mm tube, so mounts are a little less common. For mounts, the 1.5" high Area 419 or Hawkins have both been great, I'd pick whatever is in stock.

Reloading:
There's no doubt you can significantly increase your speed and precision in your powder charge by going with a high-end electronic setup. The various automated-thrower-and-trickler-over-a-balance solutions like the AutoTrickler, SuperTrickler (I'm sure there's more, I'll tag in for help here) are going to spit out a charge that's accurate to the kernel of Varget in seconds, repeatably, over your entire reloading session when properly set up. That's been a game changer the last few years. If you enjoy the meditation of manual balance beam charge weighing, and you've been measuring your muzzle velocity with a quality chronograph over a large enough sample size to be sure that your standard deviation of muzzle velocity is in the single digits... I wouldn't change happy.

Chassis:
You didn't ask me, but hey, the OG JAE's are cool. Heavy is good in this game, if it fits you well, have at it. I'm also a filthy Manners stock enjoyer and my reach to the trigger is an easy half inch longer than it should be, so perhaps take my encouragement with a grain of salt.

Muzzle Device:
I'm not familiar with the ASR but I looked it up, I generally don't like or recommend anything with secondary retention teeth, they're not needed in this application and can cause unintended consequences. That said, if yours is working properly, you have a spare ASR device for this new barrel, and you don't have a zero shift every time you mount/remove the suppressor (to clarify - of course it's different suppressed and unsuppressed, but when you put the can back on after cleaning, does your suppressed zero remain), then I'd rock what you have for now. You could remove the ASR mount out the back of your can and install a Plan B adapter, and I think that's a great system, but run what ya have until you see trouble worth correcting.

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Bushing size will depend on your brass and chamber. Looks like .267 is a good place to start.

I did direct thread once, never again. Any repeatable, quality muzzle device with a taper & thread system designed for concentric suppressor mounting is far preferred. For me, direct thread would walk loose without rockset. I've never once had a TBAC CB supressor walk loose. Being able to skip the rockset and just flick-of-a-wrist install and remove the can, with ZERO point of impact shift after cleaning bore and suppressor both and reassembling, is a super power.

If the ASR does that for ya, rock on. If you have issues with it walking loose, or you're having POI shifts every time after you clean and reassemble, then Plan B that thing and enjoy a well designed taper & thread system with your device of choice. Plenty of OEMs make Plan B devices, you can get something small and lightweight, a flash hider, whatever.

Char'ed Cuterie said:

I did direct thread once, never again. Any repeatable, quality muzzle device with a taper & thread system designed for concentric suppressor mounting is far preferred. For me, direct thread would walk loose without rockset. I've never once had a TBAC CB supressor walk loose. Being able to skip the rockset and just flick-of-a-wrist install and remove the can, with ZERO point of impact shift after cleaning bore and suppressor both and reassembling, is a super power.

If the ASR does that for ya, rock on. If you have issues with it walking loose, or you're having POI shifts every time after you clean and reassemble, then Plan B that thing and enjoy a well designed taper & thread system with your device of choice. Plenty of OEMs make Plan B devices, you can get something small and lightweight, a flash hider, whatever.

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Please excuse the noob question:

Why is there a difference between direct thread and "a taper and thread system" (not sure what that means) when it comes to a gun muffler that would "walk loose," by which I assume you mean it unscrewed itself off the barrel?

Please do not be afraid to break it down in simple terms. This is not a sarcastic question, nor am I trying to bait you.

I now own 3 silencers, but I am a new owner. I just screwed them on and have not really given it a second thought.

Your post caught my attention. Would you please elaborate?

Sure - taper and thread refers to muzzle devices (adapters, flash hiders, brakes, etc.) that stay on the barrel more-or-less permanent, and provide a mating system for a suppressor to attach to said muzzle device instead of the barrel's threads.

For an example, here's the taper and the threads on a Plan B system:


And on the TBAC CB system:



Note that Plan B is Taper in front of thread, CB is thread in front of taper. I like the idea of taper first to keep carbon out of the threads... but I'm a few thousand rounds into the CB system and have never been unable to just snap my wrist while holding the suppressor to break any carbon and remove the can after a match. So, while in theory I like one way, in practice I'm using the other and doing great.

There are some assumptions in this advice away from direct thread: OP mentioned he was interested in PRS and high volume varmint shooting. In general, I got the impression he wanted to be able to shoot 200+ rounds in a weekend. For me, that's enough rounds to warrant taking the suppressor off, cleaning the barrel, and also ultrasonic cleaning the suppressor. While in theory the suppressor shouldn't need cleaned that often, in practice the repetitive muzzle up presentations at a PRS match, followed by the very likely chance of a bump to the system while muzzle up, leads to hard carbon falling down the bore if the suppressor is fouled and causes issues with bolts not wanting to close, high pressure, firing pin problems, and trigger issues. I've seen plenty of all those at our local club matches, and when somebody's suppressed rifle is giving them fits, over 90% of the time it turns out that suppressor has never been cleaned.

Cleaning concerns aside, I have had very good return to zero with the TBAC CB system - after cleaning everything, and putting the suppressor back on the rifle at the next match, I'm within a 0.1mil of my last zero if I need to adjust it at all. It's a minor thing after the above, but these thread and taper systems have much larger threads and also fewer of them - the can needs fewer revolutions to go on or come off. Little creature comfort. Even less of an issue for a barrel used in matches, is that leaving a thread-and-taper muzzle device on the barrel threads protects the barrel threads, which are harder to repair if damaged. If you damage a thread-and-taper muzzle device... just put a new one on. Again, less of an issue with a match rifle, the barrel is only in your life for a year or so and you're on to the next one, but no sense inviting trouble over early.

I've used the same HUB compatible can in both direct thread and with a TBAC CB adapter from Ecco Machine. After a few hundred direct thread and thousands with CB, I'm staying CB and it's not close.

Back to OP's system - his suppressor has one of the modular adapter systems for the mount, and the current insert accepts the ASR style, like this:


Note how this device has a taper, threads, and a secondary retention system where a pawl on the suppressor engages with those teeth on the muzzle device. If OP's been having good performance with this system, i.e., it doesn't get loose after a full day of shooting, it doesn't get stuck on with carbon, and his system returns to zero after removing and re-installing the suppressor, my advice is to keep using it and don't fix happy. IF, however, maybe there are some issues in any of those arenas, I would encourage OP to consider a change to a simpler system, thread-and-taper only, no secondary retention. His application is a 6mm Dasher competition rifle, we're not dealing with reciprocating mass at all, no SURG schedules, etc. It's a simpler application and it's much more sensitive to imperfections in the mounting system.

I have ASR brakes on my semi-autos and area 419 pm my bolt guns. My 22 rimfires are direct thread, I guess that makes me slightly skitzo, but it works.

Thank you for that explanation. I now have a lot more information to consider.

I know them more for other products, but sure enough they offer adapters for suppressors using that same system. Seems like it'll work great.

Happy to help, enjoy that class and that hunt!