Vatican desecrated by Diversity/Strength individual

clcustom1911

Muppet Extraordinaire
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Oct 23, 2017
    10,118
    35,048
    In a van, down by the river.
    I don't have words to eloquently articulate my feelings, so I'll just say it like this - about 100 years ago some asshole with a funny mustache who enjoyed painting 🎨 100% called this.



     
    The Vatican is a business and a country of its own. I'm actually surprised this is not done more often. I think they have like $6 Billion in the coffers, not counting the value of the Vatican itself.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: 10ring'r
    The Vatican is a business and a country of its own. I'm actually surprised this is not done more often. I think they have like $6 Billion in the coffers, not counting the value of the Vatican itself.
    I don't disagree with you. But, if this particular action happened in Mecca, or [especially] Jerusalem, we know how large the outcry would be.

    Check that - I think if some dipshit did this in Mecca they would just dissappear the asshole. Jews would just say this is the 6 millionth time this has happened.
     
    Yeah, I'd like to see the swift justice had this been tried in Mecca.

    That being said, I don't know how I'd feel praying at an altar named after a man. The statue of St. Peter (?) there has a smooth spot rubbed into the foot from where people laid their hands and prayed...and I clearly think that my Bible and theirs don't match. I put the question mark because I am not smart on sainthood.

    I did visit the Vatican once. It was a wonderful marvel of art and architecture, built to serve man.
     
    Last edited:
    Yeah, I'd like to see the swift justice had this been tried in Mecca.

    That being said, I don't know how I'd feel praying at an altar named after a man. The statue of St. Peter (?) there has a smooth spot rubbed into the foot from where people laid their hands and prayed...and I clearly think that my Bible and theirs don't match. I put the question mark because I am not smart on sainthood.

    I did visit the Vatican once. It was a wonderful marvel of art and architecture, built to serve man.

    Idols.
     
    Just because President Washington or Jefferson are held in high regard, and patriots visit monuments built to them, doesn't necessarily mean that they consider those men equivalent to God Himself. Not long ago we might of visited the Washington monument and wished that a man of his character would be elected president. Might even ask President Washington if he could ask God to help that happen.
     
    God commands us to pray and worship only him, prayers to saints are idolatry. It gives glory to saints, glory that God reserves for himself. “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols” (Isaiah 42:8).


    I’m not following anyone who puts themselves above others with fancy robes, gold, and claiming to be Gods middle man. The book tells you what to do
     
    Last edited:
    Yeah, I'd like to see the swift justice had this been tried in Mecca.

    That being said, I don't know how I'd feel praying at an altar named after a man. The statue of St. Peter (?) there has a smooth spot rubbed into the foot from where people laid their hands and prayed...and I clearly think that my Bible and theirs don't match. I put the question mark because I am not smart on sainthood.

    I did visit the Vatican once. It was a wonderful marvel of art and architecture, built to serve man.
    It woukd be an awesome historical building to see. I get excited looking at homes steads built in the 1800s that little more than some piles of rocks though. 🤣🤣🤣
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: diggler1833
    It woukd be an awesome historical building to see. I get excited looking at a homestead built in the 1800s that is just some piles of rocks. 🤣🤣🤣

    Man, it is amazing in there. Worth a look for sure if only to appreciate the architecture, art, and amount of money that it must have cost to put it all together.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: CaptArab
    Yeah, I’m a Catholic born and raised so take this for what it’s worth. The Vatican is its own country and the pope is the leader. But I don’t see the pope inviting the Muslim masses to come in camp out in the Vatican. So I think the pope is full of shit every time he opens his mouth about immigration and he is not in a position to lecture anyone.
     
    Last edited:
    I don't have words to eloquently articulate my feelings, so I'll just say it like this - about 100 years ago some asshole with a funny mustache who enjoyed painting 🎨 100% called this.





    Catholic Church is very liberal, they spend millions on "refugee resettlement" programs, they deserve it.
     
    LOL ... Costs-$$$ a lot to run your own country and tourism industry behind those beautiful high walls. Vatican and Pope are head dog of the Catholic Con, so it only right the Vatican got it's required ' Pizzo ' from the 4.6 billion the CRS took in from USAID.
    .
     
    ...and all of the other property that they own across the Globe on a tax-exempt basis.
    Yeah - they own more real estate than any non-gov/royal entity in the world. A friend was an attorney on the abuse cases for years. The wall of protection was disgusting by any measure.

    They play hide the money as well as they play hide the weeny.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Nik H
    Many years ago, my parents had a good friend whose daughter died at a very young age due to some disease. The priest told the parents that in order for their daughter to enter heaven, they needed to buy 250 candles from the church. They didn't have the money, and the mother was emotionally destroyed. Yeah that uhh, church.
     
    Don't got no beef against the catholic church, the Pope, or the Vatican. Trashing them is not what I think is important.

    This thing is defacing what others find holy. So, my response to him would be to blow my nose with an LGBTQLMNOP flag. Full disclosure, later in life, my grandmother and step-grandfather converted to catholicism. But the comments here do not upset me and trust me, believe me, I have spent time in my life ripping into religion and into the Bible.

    This thing is defacing to rile people up. He wants a fight.
     
    I’ll play the role of Catholic apologist.

    On the saints…many people don’t understand catholics asking for the intercessions the saints. Catholics don’t “pray to the saints” thinking that the saints can cause anything to happen directly. They recognize that the saints are in a unique position to stand directly before God and pray to Him for us. So we ask the saints to pray for us. When asking a saint for help, the intention is that we are asking the saint to join us in asking God for help.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: SBRSarge and BScore
    Humans that insert themselves between a person and their god are doing so for power, control, influence, or money.

    -Stan
    Christ himself created the church. He chose the 12 apostles and declared Simon the “Rock”. In Old Testament theology, 12 was a number that symbolized government. It sure looks like Jesus intended to create an organized church.

    After his resurrection he says to the apostles “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are retained. By saying so, isn’t he directly appointing them as mediators between souls and God?
     
    Christ himself created the church. He chose the 12 apostles and declared Simon the “Rock”. In Old Testament theology, 12 was a number that symbolized government. It sure looks like Jesus intended to create an organized church.

    After his resurrection he says to the apostles “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are retained. By saying so, isn’t he directly appointing them as mediators between souls and God?
    If worshipping god through a system invented by a human is your preferred method, so be it.

    It is not mine.

    I suspect god tolerates both of our preferences.

    -Stan
     
    Christ himself created the church. He chose the 12 apostles and declared Simon the “Rock”. In Old Testament theology, 12 was a number that symbolized government. It sure looks like Jesus intended to create an organized church.

    After his resurrection he says to the apostles “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are retained. By saying so, isn’t he directly appointing them as mediators between souls and God?

    Interesting how much people hang onto the nuances of every word from a current English version of the new testament. Don’t get me wrong it’s an amazing book filled with meaning, insight, and many truths. Given that this gospel was written roughly 60-80 years after the time of Christ in Greek (thought the Jews argue, of course that it was Hebrew based on some medieval manuscripts from what is now Spain that are in the Vatican archives), and was originally circulated as a hand written tract of which there are many copies that are not identical, and later translated to Latin. Other NT book were written over the next couple hundred years and first rolled up as a full New Testament around 400 AD. All this was run through the meat grinder of a highly political Catholic Church which was considered a higher authority than the nascent “bible”. Then came the schisms starting in the 11th century over (surprise!) translation of a few words that couldn’t fairly be translated clearly. Books were discarded by various groups (read them!) though they predated many books of the NT, gnostics (an early Christian church) were murdered by the Catholics and manuscripts burned much for political expediency. We didn’t event get to English (from Latin) until Wycliffe in the 14th century and that Middle English language is quite unlike the much more modern English of the KJV which is where the Bible as an English manuscript we recognize today finally came along in the early 17th century. Along the way various manuscripts were translated earlier (including John in the 8th century as I recall) than all this but the remaining manuscript make it clear its way a long way from a nice neatly packaged. The book we in the US know as the Bible is about a 415 year old book (with a rich, fascinating, and treacherous history!)

    I value faith and respect people’s beliefs but too many people leading churches are clueless on how we got here and better at spewing dogma as an absolute. …and they have a temple or sanctuary full of trainable parrots in front of them every Sunday ready to help dumb it down. They are not educated enough and find it easier to criticize knowledge as “lack of faith” than a better understanding of meaning. Otherwise well-meaning believers still swear it’s 2,000 years old and exactly the same all along. That’s not faith - it’s intentional ignorance.

    Don’t get me started on dumbing the Bible down to little more than anther Chicken Soup for the Soul books in recent decades…
     
    1739343255233.png
     
    • Like
    Reactions: BScore
    I’ll play the role of Catholic apologist.

    On the saints…many people don’t understand catholics asking for the intercessions the saints. Catholics don’t “pray to the saints” thinking that the saints can cause anything to happen directly. They recognize that the saints are in a unique position to stand directly before God and pray to Him for us. So we ask the saints to pray for us. When asking a saint for help, the intention is that we are asking the saint to join us in asking God for help.

    Not my experience with the Catholics I’ve known. They call on saints for protection among other things.

    Saint Christopher: Protects travelers, and is known for carrying a child who turned out to be Christ across a river.

    Saint Benedict: Protects from curses, evil, and vice, and protects good health

    …and many more.

    You are right that they should not, but lots of Christians, not just Catholics fall unknowingly into the same trap.

    How does the confession thing work? “Say three Hail Marys and go and sin no more.” This is the one thing that would forever keep me from a Catholic Church. How can a mortal man determine true remorse in another man? Also, the veil was torn from top to bottom eliminating the middle man.
     
    The Vatican is a business and a country of its own. I'm actually surprised this is not done more often. I think they have like $6 Billion in the coffers, not counting the value of the Vatican itself.

    Multiply that by 10 and you might be getting close to the value of their 'liquid' assets...

    I'd be willing to bet that they control hundreds of billions...

    17,500 parishes roughly in USA. Average of about 1100 registered parishoners per. If half go to mass once a week... and give an average $5 donation (which I think is low in the USA).... If my math is right, that/s 2.5 billion a year handed over in the USA alone. And though I think my donation estimate is low... I think my number who go to mass each week is probably high. So betting it averages out.

    Yeah, that doesn't all go to the Commie Pope... But he skims some of it!

    Not that there is anything wrong with that... If that's what folks want to do... and it makes them better people... I'm all for it!

    Sirhr
     
    Not my experience with the Catholics I’ve known. They call on saints for protection among other things.

    Saint Christopher: Protects travelers, and is known for carrying a child who turned out to be Christ across a river.

    Saint Benedict: Protects from curses, evil, and vice, and protects good health

    …and many more.

    You are right that they should not, but lots of Christians, not just Catholics fall unknowingly into the same trap.

    How does the confession thing work? “Say three Hail Marys and go and sin no more.” This is the one thing that would forever keep me from a Catholic Church. How can a mortal man determine true remorse in another man? Also, the veil was torn from top to bottom eliminating the middle man.
    Yes, each saint has specific things they are associated with being intercessors for. The saints serve as a great comfort to us as we strive for righteousness, not just as intercessors but as examples of faith we can take inspiration from.

    As far as confession goes, it’s one of the sacraments of the church. The sacraments are gifts from God to strengthen us on our journey of faith. During confession, it’s not necessarily the priests job to determine the truth of remorse in an individual. That said, if they perceive a lack of remorse they might refuse absolving someone of a specific sin because to do so anyway would be a lie.

    The church teaches that the priest hears confessions “in persona Christi” meaning that the priest acts in the person of Christ himself. Jesus uses the priest as his hands to do the work of the Father. This is true for other sacraments as well.

    Be warned, I am NOT an expert by any means. Just a Catholic who thinks much of the church is misunderstood.
     
    Multiply that by 10 and you might be getting close to the value of their 'liquid' assets...

    I'd be willing to bet that they control hundreds of billions...

    17,500 parishes roughly in USA. Average of about 1100 registered parishoners per. If half go to mass once a week... and give an average $5 donation (which I think is low in the USA).... If my math is right, that/s 2.5 billion a year handed over in the USA alone. And though I think my donation estimate is low... I think my number who go to mass each week is probably high. So betting it averages out.

    Yeah, that doesn't all go to the Commie Pope... But he skims some of it!

    Not that there is anything wrong with that... If that's what folks want to do... and it makes them better people... I'm all for it!

    Sirhr
    I wish those numbers were right. I think the current estimates of parishioners that attend weekly mass is more like 20% or less. It’s gotten bad.

    As far as money, many local parishes are running in the red every year. Our tri-parish serves a community of about 10-12 thousand people, and of the 3 churches, only one has donations that meet its expense requirements with any regularity. Most years they require assistance from the diocese.
     
    It's really hard to desecrate that which is already a profane abomination in the sight of God.
    The pope can be wrong about things. Bishops are sinners. Priests are sinners. Some are worse than others, many are amazing people. Just like all humanity.

    However “the church” is the bride of Christ. The souls of all the faithful, in communion with the angels and saints, is “the church”. At its founding it had but one member, Mary the mother of Jesus. From its inception “the church” was holy, and continues to be so despite our sinfulness.
     
    Interesting how much people hang onto the nuances of every word from a current English version of the new testament. Don’t get me wrong it’s an amazing book filled with meaning, insight, and many truths. Given that this gospel was written roughly 60-80 years after the time of Christ in Greek (thought the Jews argue, of course that it was Hebrew based on some medieval manuscripts from what is now Spain that are in the Vatican archives), and was originally circulated as a hand written tract of which there are many copies that are not identical, and later translated to Latin. Other NT book were written over the next couple hundred years and first rolled up as a full New Testament around 400 AD. All this was run through the meat grinder of a highly political Catholic Church which was considered a higher authority than the nascent “bible”. Then came the schisms starting in the 11th century over (surprise!) translation of a few words that couldn’t fairly be translated clearly. Books were discarded by various groups (read them!) though they predated many books of the NT, gnostics (an early Christian church) were murdered by the Catholics and manuscripts burned much for political expediency. We didn’t event get to English (from Latin) until Wycliffe in the 14th century and that Middle English language is quite unlike the much more modern English of the KJV which is where the Bible as an English manuscript we recognize today finally came along in the early 17th century. Along the way various manuscripts were translated earlier (including John in the 8th century as I recall) than all this but the remaining manuscript make it clear its way a long way from a nice neatly packaged. The book we in the US know as the Bible is about a 415 year old book (with a rich, fascinating, and treacherous history!)

    I value faith and respect people’s beliefs but too many people leading churches are clueless on how we got here and better at spewing dogma as an absolute. …and they have a temple or sanctuary full of trainable parrots in front of them every Sunday ready to help dumb it down. They are not educated enough and find it easier to criticize knowledge as “lack of faith” than a better understanding of meaning. Otherwise well-meaning believers still swear it’s 2,000 years old and exactly the same all along. That’s not faith - it’s intentional ignorance.

    Don’t get me started on dumbing the Bible down to little more than anther Chicken Soup for the Soul books in recent decades…
    In addition, the Apocrypha had interesting things to say. As well as the scrolls found at Nag Hammadi that describe a different ending for Jesus' time in Jerusalem. These are talked about in "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and because of various accounts of a private "crucifixion" on the land of Joseph of Aramethea, it fits in with the idea that Jesus, who was married to Mary of Magdalene (and no, she was not a prostitute), escaped the persecution to move to Gaul, now the southern tip of France.

    Then the children of Jesus and Mary married into the Merovingian family. TLDR, there is somewhere on the outskirts of Paris today, a living descendent of Jesus, of the House of David, and heir-apparent to the throne of Jerusalem.

    These books and others were ultimately rejected at the Council of Nicea.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Herb Stoner
    The church teaches that the priest hears confessions “in persona Christi” meaning that the priest acts in the person of Christ himself. Jesus uses the priest as his hands to do the work of the Father. This is true for other sacraments as well.

    And that is where I get off the train.

    Be warned, I am NOT an expert by any means. Just a Catholic who thinks much of the church is misunderstood.

    Ditto
     
    Tom Robbins is an author of interestingly described fiction. His book "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" was made into a movie.

    He had another book entitled "Another Roadside Attraction."

    The protagonist runs a roadside attraction where you can see two-headed lizards and other oddities. So, while visiting the Vatican, an earthquake strikes and one of the vaults cracks open and out slides a casket that he later finds is about 2,000 years old.

    So, he takes it and brings it back to the states, where it is just another roadside attraction.