School me on the Vudoo

Rob01 said:

Nah. You can never prove something to someone who doesn’t want to see it work and way too many tuner haters out there. Just a waste of ammo to hear “no now I need 100 40 shot groups at 8 different yardages”. Lol Not my job to prove to anyone they work. I proved it to myself in the past 4 years of using them.

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I think it would be awesome if they did. And we learned exactly how….

Csafisher said:

I recently did my own tuner test. I think it was a total of 78 five shot groups. Average 5rd group size was .31. I don’t remember what the average 30rd group size was. With a random lot of center x. I was happy with that. As for the test, I picked the best and worst settings and re-shot them. They flipped…. Also ran a p test on the data and no difference was found.

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A few details please. Barrel length and profile and tuner weight or type. Note that you only proved your tune was without merit, not that everyone else's are without merit.

Regards wanting proof as to the validity of tuning are you familiar with Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.

David Lott said:

The great part about tuner testing is taking the time to learn trigger and rifle control, which in itself is the better outcome as far as results on paper are concerned. Testing with a bipod and rear bag is worthless to see a real change, become a .22 bullet whisperer and you will see things you never thought possible

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Funny is that I've started my 22 journey shooting Small bore F class years ago before I moved to NRL22 PRS Rimfire..

20 minutes, 20 rounds unlimited sighters.
50 & 100 yards

Running my GEN2 V22 it taught me more about rifle and trigger control and when NOT to pull it than anything else...

Of course it was hard keeping up custom f class rifles with 30# sleds / tuners while shooting off of a bag and bipod..yet always ended up in top 5 each match.

Williwaw said:

A few details please. Barrel length and profile and tuner weight or type. Note that you only proved your tune was without merit, not that everyone else's are without merit.

Regards wanting proof as to the validity of tuning are you familiar with Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.

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24” MTU. EC v1 tuner. Note that nobody has yet to show a test proving it works on their gun….

I’m not familiar with him.

Well, Kolbe is a good starting point for inquiring minds. He put some effort into establishing and sharing proof how tuning works for anyone willing to do the legwork.

Williwaw said:

Dr. Kolbe, one time owner of Borden Barrels,UK.

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Not to induce a tangent, but I think you mean Border Barrels.

Jack_L said:

Not to induce a tangent, but I think you mean Border Barrels.

ABOUT US | Phoenix Barrels

www.phoenixbarrels.com

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You bet, thank you. I would have thought that was close enough for the HIDE. Thanks again.

DAVID A BUREAU said:

Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.

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Voodoo/Rim-x/Duece/ modified Bergara are real racecars. Don’t believe the “they all run great” hype. If they are put together and function tested by an experienced pro Rimfire builder, yes, usually run well as long as it’s not the first Gen version. What we don’t say publicly is that most of our big $$$ customs that we put together took a lot more time, $$, and learning on our part to get running as well as an off the shelf CZ. Eventually the customs will perform better, but it’s embarrassing how much more resources are takes if you don’t buy the whole setup complete sans optics from a pro builder.

DAVID A BUREAU said:

Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.

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Notwithstanding the design flaw that is the Vudoo magazine, the answer of what is the difference between an r700 and a CZ is the Bolt and the r700 ecosystem. The vudoo bolt is a very high quality design. And you get bix/triggertech triggers.

The problem with the magazine is quite basic, and is more a quality-of-execution problem than anything else. It's persistance also seems to indicate is a business model problem (ie a feature not a flaw for the widget sellers).

DAVID A BUREAU said:

Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues. So why does everyone jump on the Vudoo band wagon?
Also you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it. So what makes the action any different than lets say a CZ457? I may be asking stupid questions but like I said, I'm new to this.

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I haven't had a feeding malfunction in my 1st-gen Vudoo in literally years and thousands of rounds fired, including a dozen or so matches each season.

Keep in mind that Vudoo's controlled-feed design ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES perfect fitment between action and stock/chassis. Whereas centerfire rifles with bottleneck calibers have a relatively gigantic hole into which the cartridge feeds, the Vudoo (and Rim-X) has to pick up the round from the magazine and insert the soft bullet nose into an opening of pretty much the same diameter - WITHOUT the bullet hitting anything on the way in. That's a pretty challenging thing to accomplish. Compare this to the usual ramp feed in CZ or pretty much every other design where the bullet nose hits a ramp and maybe the top of the chamber during the feed cycle - possibly deforming the bullet.

When my rifle was new, it would frequently fail to pick up the last round in the 10-round mag. Turns out I had about 3/16-1/4 inch of vertical play in the magazine. MPA sent me one of their then-new, now-standard adjustable magazine latches for the BA Comp chassis. Problem solved, reliability now 99+ percent (I'd never claim 100% on pretty much anything).
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I don't know what you mean by "... you buy a Vudoo barreled action and then take the barrel off and replace it." You get whatever barrel you want. If you want to replace the barrel, then replace the barrel. If you don't, then don't. I replaced my original 20" Kukri-contour Ace barrel with a longer Bartlein MTU barrel because I wanted to try it. Rob has gone to the 1.2" straight contour like a lot of people have (I don't want to deal with that much weight cuz I'm old&decrepit).
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There is no "design flaw" in the Vudoo mag - there are "design considerations" in the overall design in order to effect the controlled round feed. The "flaw" in the whole setup is that any deviation from required tolerance in fitment between action and stock/chassis manifests as misfeeds. In the Rim-X ecosystem, where 10-round mags cost freaking $125, rounds MUST feed from a magazine; no single-loading through ejection port. Incorrect action/stock fitment often manifests as the round stripping off the mag in front of the extractor and being jammed into the chamber. It is impossible, with its design, for the extractor to slide over the case rim. everyone I know who competes with a Rim-X has a little claw tool stuck on the rifle to clear this sort of misfeed.
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In 5+ years of Vudoo ownership (and 2+ of Rim-X ownership), I've seen guys get fed up with feeding issues on both platforms. Both REQUIRE perfect fitment of components. Feed issues are less common with less-expensive factory rifles. If feed issues scare anyone off, then just get one of those.

DAVID A BUREAU said:

Seems to me that vudoo is a pain in the ass when it comes to magazines and feeding issues.

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Another viewpoint on Vudoo magazines: They must be loaded correctly.

• See the photo - notice the staggered appearance of the cartridge column. If the mags are loaded correctly - by depressing the follower button just enough to slide a cartridge under the feed lips - the column will usually adjust itself properly.
• If two cartridges do not orient in this staggered fashion, the shooter will likely experience a misfeed when these misaligned cartridges reach firing position.
• Note the bullet orientation at the top of the column. If the bullet appears "flat" and its nose is at or below the front of the mag, a stoppage is likely.
• If a shooter just presses the follower button down as far as it will go and drops cartridges in, rim lock and/or misalignment (first bullet) are likely.

Last year, a guy appeared at a match with a fairly new Vudoo, and he experienced stage-ending (for him) jams on first two stages. I asked him to show me how he was loading his magazines. He pushed the follower button all the way down and dropped in cartridges. Misalignment in this bunch, and he had had actual rim lock on one stage.

I showed him one of my loaded magazines and explained how to load. He finished the day without another misfeed.
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[This is NOT directed at OP; it's a general observation] Too fussy? Fine. Go buy a 10/22 with a bolt that flops around like a toothpick in a soda straw. Or an AK-47, which will feed with the action half-full of sand. You want optimal accuracy in a .22LR? you gonna have to learn your precision platform's idiosyncrasies, whether it's Vudoo or Rim-X or whatever.
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Edit: the photo below shows a cartridge column in a discontinued 15-round Vudoo mag. The staggered appearance is less pronounced in the 10-round mags, but is still visible.

Glock, one of the largest pistol manufacturers (think lots of engineers) in the world has a video at the top right of this page on how to properly load a magazine,


Vudoo is very small in comparison but brought the .22 into the 21st century by introducing the V22 in a 700 footprint, keep in mind that they are not the 1st (Remington 40X was I believe.) But the keyword is making a very short rimfire cartridge work in a place designed for a centerfire (think long smaller diameter projectile feeding into a larger hole, even they had feeding issues early on ) When you are trying to insert a .222 projectile into a .226 hole timing and alignment are very critical. They are "Race rifles" if you will and when set up properly will run like a Swiss watch. Rim X paid attention and designed a better mouse trap in their magazine (Still has to be adjusted properly), Thankfully l3I built the angled aluminum magazine that stopped the rim lock but still has to be adjusted correctly to feed properly. Also keep in mind it's a number game, Vudoo is probably 10 to one of anything else at matches, so there will be more talk of problems than another brand. That also means they have a very proven track record.

Starting a new business during covid and it revolving around Vudoo would have been a very foolish mistake on my part if they did indeed have as many problems as some claim.

I commend you guys who have the patience to give your time to endlessly dispelling the misconceptions around Vudoo mag/feed issues.

I can only add that I have I'll probably have 100K rounds through my 360 next week and I'm patiently awaiting my second which will have a BR contour barrel. So either I'm having no issues or else I'm an idiot ... opinions vary.

Williwaw said:

I commend you guys who have the patience to give your time to endlessly dispelling the misconceptions around Vudoo mag/feed issues.

I can only add that I have I'll probably have 100K rounds through my 360 next week and I'm patiently awaiting my second which will have a BR contour barrel. So either I'm having no issues or else I'm an idiot ... opinions vary.

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If we have learned anything the last 8 years is that keeping quiet and minding our own business will get us into more trouble than anything else. Simply look at the mess Trump and Elon are currently cleaning up. How did we get there? false information, the media lies and people regurgitate the lie until it becomes the norm. Forums and social media are no different. If those of us who truly know don't CORRECT the lies and misconceptions WE all lose.

misconceptions

1. a view or opinion that is incorrect based on faulty thinking or understanding.