Rifle Scopes Best optic aroumd 2k with mil discount

Gen3 Razor is what you're looking for.

What I ended up settling with 5 years ago were Minox ZP5 scopes on my longrange rifles, and I still have a few. For my eyes, these are leaps and bounds above the atacrs and vortex stuff at the time.

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What specifically put the ZP5 leaps and bounds over the rest? Eyebox? Lack of aberration? Colors? Each of those listed manufacturer's top scopes are better at some things and worse at others than each other.

Zeiss S3 6-36. To me it’s nicer than Vortex and Leupold. If you can find a sell going on, it can be had for around 1850.

rothgyr said:

What specifically put the ZP5 leaps and bounds over the rest? Eyebox? Lack of aberration? Colors? Each of those listed manufacturer's top scopes are better at some things and worse at others than each other.

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I would say yes, on all of those. The ZP5 uses essentially the same optical formula as the Tangent Theta. My ZP5 5-25's were very, very close to my Tangents with regard to optical quality. Where Minox shot themselves in the foot was with some QC issues, out of country warranty and then the 50% fiasco the OP mentions.

317millhand said:

My eyes aren't the best anymore, and the Minox seems to have a brighter image tha. The NG or Leupold. Minox is comparable to older S&Bs ive owned. Also love the MR4 reticle. Nit picky things I dont like about the NF are the rotating ocular and capped windage turret. If clarity was on par with the minox, I could live with the nit picky items. My experience is with the 4-16 and 5-25 ATACR. I hear the 7-35 may be better? I wish all had more FOV

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The ATACR 4-16x42 and 7-35x56 are the best of the ATACR bunch IMO. With regard to FOV, the 7-35 has fairly narrow FOV at bottom mag but quickly picks that up. Most guys who shoot the 7-35 do so without the intention of using it at 7x, most use the Goldilocks zone somewhere in the 10-20x range and that's where these scopes excel and I think you'll find the FOV of the NF ATACR 7-35 to be as good or better than other scopes that don't have an ultra wide field eyepiece.

jetjock07 said:

Zeiss S3 6-36. To me it’s nicer than Vortex and Leupold. If you can find a sell going on, it can be had for around 1850.

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I would say the Vortex RG3 6-36, the Zeiss LRP S3 6-36 and the Element Theos 6-36 are all right there with regard to optical/mechanical quality, I just did a review of all three and each has their own nuanced features but all have excellent IQ that is close to ZP5, ZCO, TT and Schmidt

@gr8fuldoug from camerlandny.com is a great source for all three, give him a call and he can get you setup with excellent pricing

rothgyr said:

What specifically put the ZP5 leaps and bounds over the rest? Eyebox? Lack of aberration? Colors? Each of those listed manufacturer's top scopes are better at some things and worse at others than each other.

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The zp5 is better in every way performance wise. It's really a poor man's Tangent Theta. The problem is support is almost non existent and you will spend many months waiting on repairs. There is a reason places like CS optics no longer carry them. At one time they were the biggest dealer and their team shooters ran minox.

317millhand said:

Looking for a new scope geared toward hobbyist PRS/long range. Through the years I've owned most everything in the $3500 and under price tag. Always purchased used or paid full price. Was never aware of places like expertvoice or govx that offer veterans some hefty discounts. Fast forward to today, with so many options and so many big names offering discounts to veterans. I dont feel like I'll be shooting at an level that requires me to spend 4k on a new optic. Im sure they are fantastic, but prices are getting out of control. I've owned Kahles, NF ATACRS, vortex gen2 and gen 1 vipers, schmidt, Leupold mk5, premier, and a wide variety. What I ended up settling with 5 years ago were Minox ZP5 scopes on my longrange rifles, and I still have a few. For my eyes, these are leaps and bounds above the atacrs and vortex stuff at the time. These could always be picked up in the classifieds for under 2k, and Minox even had a 50 percent off promo once.

So, now that I'm aware of all the fantastic patriotic companies that offer discounts to veterans. And all the new options and advancements, is there something new as good as the Minox in that 2k to 2.5k price range with the discount? Leupold and NF definately make some of the toughest and well regarded proucts, but not my preference for this application. I feel like there may be something newer, that has better glass. Maybe just go with what I know and pick up another Minox, but I got nervous when a company gets out of the game.

I've found the following to offer substantial discounts, either direct, through expertvoice, or gov x. I have never owned or tried the longrange optics from a few of these, but do notice they get great press.

Leupold
Nightforce
Vortex
Steiner (never owned )
Leica (never owned )
Burris
Zeiss (never owned)
Trijicon

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If you can stretch your budget...you can get In to a used ZCO in high 2's, low 3's. That puts you in a class above anything else you are looking at.

As far as the .mil discounts go, it might not be a bad idea for the OP to message a few guys in here who obviously qualify. Posting prices where other dudes can't qualify has always seemed a little off to me.

@317millhand I think that for the money, the Zeiss S3 glass is very hard to beat (I still wouldn't run it on a hunting rig...that red coating blooms in your image when the sun is anywhere behind you). However, for image quality they aren't really behind the ATACR or G3 Razor at all.

I'm in the same market right now ($2K budget for a hobby target rifle). And while I have the S3, ATACR, and G3 Razor, I think I'm going to go a different route as well.

diggler1833 said:

(I still wouldn't run it on a hunting rig...that red coating blooms in your image when the sun is anywhere behind you).

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Behind you or in front of you? Just want to be clear, is it sunlight hitting the ocular or the objective that you've found to be an issue?

Glassaholic said:

Behind you or in front of you? Just want to be clear, is it sunlight hitting the ocular or the objective that you've found to be an issue?

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Great question. I'm probably not wording it well.

***Not my images***, but this is exactly what I'm seeing in that last 60 minutes of daylight when the sun is at my 4-8 O'clock. Specifically, the red hue is washing out a lot of the image contrast. ***See behind the scope photos starting on post #2, 3, 4 etc...

Nightforce or Schmidt Bender PM ll with their war pedigree is hard to beat.

I have the Steiner T6xi 5-30 and the Vortex Razor G3 6-36. They're both good scopes, glass is very similar to my eye, with the Razor just slightly better if you've got them side by side. The turrets on the Razor are more definitive than the Steiner, but the eyebox seems more forgiving on the Steiner (and I really love the MSR2 reticle). Is the Vortex worth over a $1k more (at EV price)? Not sure I could argue for that. The Steiner actually fits into your budget parameters with the discount you mentioned. Another thing to add to the discussion is that Vortex customer service is absolutely awesome. Hope this helps add to the confusion.

OP your experience with optics seems much higher than mine but I've been doing a lot of research in that price range and like another member posted earlier, The Zeiss comes VERY close to what you were aiming for and then the Theos (a little bit higher in price) but I think would be a fantastic choice.

The Theos is like an ATACR without the rotating occular housing. A buddy of mine who swears by Nightforce was actually really impressed with his Theos, and started shooting with it more than his ATACR 7-35. I never thought I'd see the day he'd use anything else.

If they would make the NF 7-35 with 10 mil turrets I believe that would be just about perfect price per performance.

Shooting centerfire the 12 mil turrets are not that bad but when shooting rimfire they suck balls and screw you all trying to count your dope.

Son with that being said Gen III razor takes the cake but with their price hike they priced themselves out for most things.

OP can get a NF 7-35 much cheaper than the razor with mil/leo discounts now. Crazy.

rothgyr said:

The Theos is like an ATACR without the rotating occular housing. A buddy of mine who swears by Nightforce was actually really impressed with his Theos, and started shooting with it more than his ATACR 7-35. I never thought I'd see the day he'd use anything else.

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What about matching the NF 7-35’s very good flare performance? Ask him that, I’m curious.

This is from reading some tests and talking to people, not first-hand experience btw.

Kadams1563 said:

If they would make the NF 7-35 with 10 mil turrets I believe that would be just about perfect price per performance.

Shooting centerfire the 12 mil turrets are not that bad but when shooting rimfire they suck balls and screw you all trying to count your dope.

Son with that being said Gen III razor takes the cake but with their price hike they priced themselves out for most things.

OP can get a NF 7-35 much cheaper than the razor with mil/leo discounts now. Crazy.

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Whoa, I hadn't realized that but just checked and you're right. I think you can still find sales on the RG3 but in general it appears to have gone way up in price. Kudo's to NF for keeping prices reasonable the past 5 years when everything else seems to have gone crazy.

I couldn't get a Schmidt or nf 7-35 close what I just got the gen 3 for. But I'm also civilian and can't get the other discounts.

Glassaholic said:

Kudo's to NF for keeping prices reasonable the past 5 years when everything else seems to have gone crazy.

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I imagine they will get a massive hike on the next update.

Yep, I bought a 7-35 ATACR last fall for $300 less than I could get a G3 Razor.

The are incredibly close to my eye.

I still think that Vortex usually does sales around Memorial Day, and might drop the G3 down to where it is less then...

Best deal on a Razor Gen 3 is a used one out of the classifieds for about $2150ish, or buy a 30% off MAP price certificate on Vortex from Euro Optic out of the PX for about $75 and then order a new RG3 for $2100 from Euro with that 30% off MAP certificate.

The Vortex mil/le discounts aren't as great anymore since Vortex significantly bumped the MSRP prices early last year but kept MAP prices the same, and the mil/le/vet discount is a percentage back of MSRP price. Vortex didn't say why they jumped the MSRP but kept the MAP prices the same, but my hunch is people were abusing the mil/le/vet discounts and reselling scopes at a profit. Vortex usually ran extra deep mil/le discounts around memorial day, veterans day, and 4th of July, but with the new higher MSRP prices even those extra le/mil/vet discount sales still end up costing you quite a bit more than buying a 30% off MAP cert from Euro for $75 in the PX here.

For around the $2k-ish mark new the RG3 is my favorite of all the scopes I've tried in that price range. I have quite a few S&B 5-25s and 3-20s, 5-25 Tangents, 5-25 and 3-15 Premiers, and a 5-25 Minox, and the last 4 scopes I've bought have all been Razor Gen 3s-- they're not just good scopes for the money, they're just very good scopes that happen to be priced reasonably. Using them side by side with my other scopes makes me wonder how Vortex pulled off making such a good scope for about $2k. After spending time behind the first RG3 I purchased I haven't been able to make myself pay the $3600-5000+ for any more Tangents. I will say though I have yet to spend enough time behind a ZCO to see what I might be missing.

A nice used Minox ZP5 5-25 out of the PX can often be found right at or even under $2k and is a hell of a lot of scope for the money, but if it ever needs service expect a long turnaround. You mentioned you already have a few and if you like them, I'd try to get another one. They're the same heritage as the Premier 5-25 and Tangent 5-25, so as you know performance wise it's excellent and you can get them for $2k or under in the PX.

Edit: right now on EV the Zeiss S3 6-36 is right at your price target, and while I don't like it as much as the RG3 it's still a very nice scope for the price. However, they were a few hundred cheaper on EV about a year ago, and you can save a few hundred off the current EV price by getting a lightly used one from the PX.

A NF 7-35 from EV is a bit above your $2k price point but is still a very good scope, but having used one back to back with the RG3 my preference is for the RG3. Don't consider saving money by purchasing an ATACR 5-25 instead of the 7-35; the 5-25 a huge step down in glass quality from the 7-35. I bought an 5-25 ATACR years ago, used it for a week long shooting trip, and sold it when I got home because I was so disappointed with it.

If you want to stretch your budget a bit, $3k puts you right in the range of a used ZCO 527 or Tangent 5-25. A Tangent 5-25 Gen2XR went for $3k here just a week or two ago; they are excellent. It will be optically comparable to your Minox ZP5 5-25s (they share a design heritage, both branching out from the Premier 5-25 design) but with much better turrets and IMO better reticle choices.

Vortex is making all their money back from when the dude ran off with everyone’s money and they honored his selling price or delivered scopes he didn’t.

I called it way back then that nothing is free and just out of the kindness of their hearts lol.

Kadams1563 said:

Vortex is making all their money back from when the dude ran off with everyone’s money and they honored his selling price or delivered scopes he didn’t.

I called it way back then that nothing is free and just out of the kindness of their hearts lol.

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2 of my RG3s came from the Liberty Optics fiasco that Vortex made good on, but I still had to pay Vortex for them-- it's not like Vortex sent them to me for free, they just honored the price Scott charged for them. It's not like they gave away every scope that Scott stiffed people on for nothing. From what other dealers told me the prices Scott was selling Vortex stuff for was right at wholesale price or even slightly back of the wholesale prices they were paying, and Vortex is still making money selling to their dealers at wholesale prices-- so it's not like they were taking a huge loss selling all those scopes that Scott stiffed people on for the prices he was charging. In the end it was probably mostly a wash for Vortex financially but gained them a *lot* of goodwill for helping out those of us who got hosed by Scott. My 2 RG3's that Vortex sent me from the Liberty fiasco quickly turned into another purchase of 2 more RG3s soon after I received them and used them.

Just my opinion though as I obviously can't see their balance sheets.

Vortex increasing the MSRP but not the MAP prices sure makes it seems like people were abusing the mil/le/vet discount programs, as bumping the MSRP but not the MAP only hurts the mil/le/vet discount purchasers. I was briefly disappointed in that but quickly realized that for the high MSRP Vortex stuff that paying $75 for a 30% off MAP Vortex cert at Euro from the PX meant your out the door price ended up nearly the same as the deep mil/le/vet discounts around memorial/veterans day/4th of July at the older, lower MSRPs. For instance, in January of 2024 when all this went down Vortex jumped the MSRP of the RG3 from $3999 to $4799, but kept the MAP the same at $2999.

I was in your same place a few weeks ago, although no mil discount. After a lot of reading and talking, I ended up scooping up a "Like New - Demo" Zeiss 6-36 for $1900 from Eurooptic. Pretty sure they offer mil discounts also.

TahoeDust said:

I was in your same place a few weeks ago, although no mil discount. After a lot of reading and talking, I ended up scooping up a "Like New - Demo" Zeiss 6-36 for $1900 from Eurooptic. Pretty sure they offer mil discounts also.

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Euro does offer a mil/le/vet price on the S3, but their mil/le/vet price on the S3 6-36 is higher than what you paid for your demo model. It's also higher than the current EV price on the S3 6-36, and the EV price is about $200 more than they go for lightly used in the PX.

The really good deals for the S3 were on EV were right after they came out, but Zeiss had a price increase since then and they also decreased their discount on EV.

Kiba said:

Euro does offer a mil/le/vet price on the S3, but their mil/le/vet price on the S3 6-36 is higher than what you paid for your demo model. It's also higher than the current EV price on the S3 6-36, and the EV price is about $200 more than they go for lightly used in the PX.

The really good deals for the S3 were on EV were right after they came out, but Zeiss had a price increase since then and they also decreased their discount on EV.

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I'm going to show my ignorance. What are the abbreviations EV and PX?

EV = expert voice, one of the mil/le/vet discount sites. They aren't a gun related site, but they do have some optic manufacturers that participate and sell through them. Vortex is there, as is Burris, Zeiss, Nightforce, Athlon, etc.

PX = the classifieds here on the hide

Kiba said:

EV = expert voice, one of the mil/le/vet discount sites. They aren't a gun related site, but they do have some optic manufacturers that participate and sell through them. Vortex is there, as is Burris, Zeiss, Nightforce, Athlon, etc.

PX = the classifieds here on the hide

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Thanks. Never heard of EV, but it does not apply to me so that makes sense. Kinda figured that was what PX was.

TahoeDust said:

I was in your same place a few weeks ago, although no mil discount. After a lot of reading and talking, I ended up scooping up a "Like New - Demo" Zeiss 6-36 for $1900 from Eurooptic. Pretty sure they offer mil discounts also.

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There's another one on there now.

blackblue said:

There's another one on there now.

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Yeah. I saw that. I wonder how many they have and where they come from. Mine looked absolutely new and came pachaged as such. I also realized in the process tha Scopelist and EuroOptic are the same company....or Scopelist is owned by EuroOptic.

TahoeDust said:

Yeah. I saw that. I wonder how many they have and where they come from. Mine looked absolutely new and came pachaged as such. I also realized in the process tha Scopelist and EuroOptic are the same company....or Scopelist is owned by EuroOptic.

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I almost snagged it but I found a price i was happy with for a razor.

Kiba said:

Don't consider saving money by purchasing an ATACR 5-25 instead of the 7-35; the 5-25 a huge step down in glass quality from the 7-35. I bought an 5-25 ATACR years ago, used it for a week long shooting trip, and sold it when I got home because I was so disappointed with it.

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I hear this quite a bit - has anyone bought a recent production of the 5-25? I'm curious if they updated something in their glass when they released the 7-35, but everyone's just been buying 7-35s. It wasn't until recently that I started seen 5-25s with modern Mil-XT/Mil-C reticles showing up.

blackblue said:

I almost snagged it but I found a price i was happy with for a razor.

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I'm sure you will be happy with it. The original budget in my mind was $1500ish, so the Zeiss was already a stretching it. What did you pay for your Razor if you don't mind me asking?

So far I’m happy with this 5-30 T6Xi (MSR-2). I was a little nervous about it. Steiner doesn’t have the best street cred. The glass feels familiar. A lot like the k525 which I actually like a lot. But waaaay fucking better eye box. I really really like it up to about 20ish. Peep the Expert Voice. It’s plenty to work with. I’m tempted to buy another but with the SCR-2.