Prefit match barrels with test target?

T

TorF

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Oct 9, 2003
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#1
Are there any makers of prefit matchbarrels in the US that test accuracy before shipping and include test target in the shipment?
Should be no problem for barrels in 308 and 6.5CM.
This practice is quite common in Europe.

This is a test target that came with a Sauer SSG3000 6.5x55 match barrel. 5 shots with Raufoss ammo loaded with Sierra 144gr SMK.
W50330 is serial nr on the barrel:

1740308493013.png
 
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#2
I’ve yet to see any but doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But I’m sure they refrain from doing so due to so many variables involved. What if the end user doesn’t know how to shoot? What if they don’t know how to reload? What if the factory ammo selection sucks? I’m sure the gunsmith/manufacturer doesn’t want to waste time with people claiming their barrel is “broken.”
 
#5
I guess if you're willing to pay for the added time and ammo...

The reason why you don't really see that in the US is that there are a lot of quality gunsmiths in every state that can take a reputable barrel manufacturer's blank, and chamber a prefit out of it so well that it maximizes full potential. When you add the extra step in the process, you're going to price yourself above the competition.

That doesn't mean that your test target business model will necessarily fail. It just puts you into a niche where the target (pun intended) segment is much smaller. Heck, we have guys willing to pay 1.5 times the price for a hunting rifle and ammo...just because they didn't have to spend the hour to put it together themselves (Gunwerks).

Any quality gunsmith here will without hesitation take a barrel back that isn't performing and inspect it.
 
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#6
Yeah, I have not seen it. This would drive up the cost of the barrel by at least a hundred dollars or more and prove very little. You are already paying for the reputation of the barrel blank maker and the the gunsmith who chambered it. I know I would not pay for it. The guy would have to have a dedicated tester who spins up the barrel onto a pre-mounted test action, fire it with factory ammo, retrieve the target, clean the barrel? All without accidentally damaging it) and ensure that the two are never separated. Way too many variables and too much effort/time for a volume business where people already complain about lead time and cost.
 
#7
Never got a test target and never wanted one from the many prefits I have gotten. Why? I am getting them from trusted companies or companies I know. Having to make them take their time and money to shoot a 5 shot group is going to add an unwanted cost to me and also time they could be making barrels. And as we all know the first 5 shots out of a new barrel tells you nothing.

Hard pass on test targets.
 
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#9
diggler1833 said:
I guess if you're willing to pay for the added time and ammo...

The reason why you don't really see that in the US is that there are a lot of quality gunsmiths in every state that can take a reputable barrel manufacturer's blank, and chamber a prefit out of it so well that it maximizes full potential. When you add the extra step in the process, you're going to price yourself above the competition.

That doesn't mean that your test target business model will necessarily fail. It just puts you into a niche where the target (pun intended) segment is much smaller. Heck, we have guys willing to pay 1.5 times the price for a hunting rifle and ammo...just because they didn't have to spend the hour to put it together themselves (Gunwerks).

Any quality gunsmith here will without hesitation take a barrel back that isn't performing and inspect it.
Click to expand...
You add for production time and ammo, but you eliminate the cost and wait time for a gunsmith.
Why use a gunsmith when the parts fit together in such a way that the shooter can do it by himself?
 
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#14
I am not a profit barrel guy but since every rifle is basically a tuning fork and changing the action would change the tune, why would a group shot with another action prove other than that barrel is not a turf on that action? I mean it won’t indicate it will shoot tiny groups on your action in your stock.
I am an old school guy. I understand pre fits shoot great but man it’s hard to beat a GAP, Terry Cros, Spartan Precision or Tac Ops built rifle

But I understand the profits shoot good enough. Especially if you have barrel burner and change barrels a great deal more than I do To me it’s a step up from factory rifles but step down from great built rifles

I use profits in ARs but generally get one with refitted bolt which

So I don’t see an advantage to the test target shot with barrel from a different target

Especially knowing the companies producing pre fits have good track records of replacing dud barrels if they won’t shoot for end user

Not an argument because this is not something I normally do

Now I have a Surgeon action and a smith who can make any barrel to fit perfectly but he has exact dimensions of my action taken from my action. So any plus or minus dimensions are accounted for
 
#15
TorF said:
This practice is quite common in Europe.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's also quite common - if not mandatory - in much of Europe for barrels to be proof tested before being shipped out. There's no such requirement here in the states, so it's more the exception than the norm for barrel makers / gunsmiths to put rounds through the customer's brand new shiny barrel.
 
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#16
I ordered the barrel for my most recent build from Bugholes. A 30” 7PRC throated for the heaviest projectiles. They didn’t need my action because the tolerances for most of the best actions out there now are so consistent that one need only send in your action if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

I spun on the barrel and it’s has been a hammer right from the start. That’s what I would expect from any of the decent barrel suppliers around these days. No rounds fired through the barrel before I spun it on.

Does that qualify as a prefit in your book or do you consider it custom since they are gunsmiths?

Bottom line is, in the U.S. market it’s not a necessity. If that’s what you desire, I don’t doubt that there are smiths that will provide it for a price, but as already said, what does that guarantee unless they have your action? Then, is it a prefit?

It’s a changing market and a great time for those in the precision rifle community. Times, they are a’changing.
 
#17
lash said:
Does that qualify as a prefit in your book or do you consider it custom since they are gunsmiths?
Click to expand...

For me... I'd call it a custom. Custom dimensions, done as a one-off to your specs. 'Pre-fits', at least in my mind, are more generalized - a 'standard' reamer for a common cartridge like 6.5CM (or whatever) made en masse. They still might be very high quality, and very consistent from one to the next, but they're more of a 'batch' process.
 
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#18
If a gunsmith does not need YOUR action to produce a barrel then it is a prefit. These days you are able to specify manufacturer, length, contour and freebore required for your prefit. Not much, if any, difference between a quality prefit and a custom chambered blank anymore.
 
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#19
memilanuk said:
For me... I'd call it a custom. Custom dimensions, done as a one-off to your specs. 'Pre-fits', at least in my mind, are more generalized - a 'standard' reamer for a common cartridge like 6.5CM (or whatever) made en masse. They still might be very high quality, and very consistent from one to the next, but they're more of a 'batch' process.
Click to expand...
You are just parsing words now. I can even ask Northland to send me a Criterion prefit for an action with differing chamber specs, within reason. PVA sells hundreds of prefit barrels and you can again ask for a variety of chamber options, barrel lengths, etc. with them.

I disagree with your narrow definition in case that wasn’t clear. You are using PVA’s special runs of sale prefit barrels as your gauge. I highly doubt that exists in Europe when they buy prefit barrels.

Edited to add: my 7PRC referenced above wasn’t ‘custom’ dimensions. I had an option of chamber specs to choose from. No special reamer required.
 
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#21
MikeMiller said:
I am not a profit barrel guy but since every rifle is basically a tuning fork and changing the action would change the tune, why would a group shot with another action prove other than that barrel is not a turf on that action? I mean it won’t indicate it will shoot tiny groups on your action in your stock.
I am an old school guy. I understand pre fits shoot great but man it’s hard to beat a GAP, Terry Cros, Spartan Precision or Tac Ops built rifle

But I understand the profits shoot good enough. Especially if you have barrel burner and change barrels a great deal more than I do To me it’s a step up from factory rifles but step down from great built rifles

I use profits in ARs but generally get one with refitted bolt which

So I don’t see an advantage to the test target shot with barrel from a different target

Especially knowing the companies producing pre fits have good track records of replacing dud barrels if they won’t shoot for end user

Not an argument because this is not something I normally do

Now I have a Surgeon action and a smith who can make any barrel to fit perfectly but he has exact dimensions of my action taken from my action. So any plus or minus dimensions are accounted for
Click to expand...
Crap auto correct is killing me. Profit should be prefit. Turf should be Turd
 
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#22
Rob01 said:
Sure it is. Someone has to thread and chamber the blank. You think they are formed in a mold that way? lol A riflesmith does all that work and builds the prefit to a spec for your action.
Click to expand...
Yes, barrels can be formed in a mold. The Blaser barrels for the Sauer SSG3000 have hammerforged rifling, hammerforged chamber and hammerforged profile. All in one. Untouched by human hands. Ready to shoot as a prefit dropin barrel at app 40% less cost than a gunsmith fitted barrel to a std action.
With modern production equipment there should be no problem having "M700" actions and barrels made to a set of fixed specs so the shooter himself can assemble a top quality chassis rifle from separate parts in 30 to 45 minutes.
The IHMSA silhouetters had it like this with their TC Contenders. Ultimate flexibility. I just don't understand why this is not a possibility for rifleshooters using the "700" platform today.
 
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#23
TorF said:
Yes, the Blaser barrels for the SSG3000 have hammerforged riflling, hammerforged chamber and hammerforged profile. All in one. Ready to shoot as a prefit dropin barrel at app 40% less cost than a gunsmith fitted barrel to a std action.
With modern production equipment there should be no problem having "M700" actions and barrels made to a set of fixed specs so the shooter himself can assemble a top quality rifle from separate parts in 30 to 45 minutes.
Click to expand...

Almost every aftermarket 700-footprint action can accept a prefit here. They are made to tighter tolerances.

That machining takes time and money, so you won't find that on a $600 US rifle.

You can't compare a Blaser to a Remington/Savage/Roger. But you can compare the actions to a Impact/Terminus/Lone Peak/Defiance/Zermatt etc... etc... What you want, these can provide.

What is your cost right now for the barrel you are promoting? I can do the conversion amount.
 
#27
diggler1833 said:
Almost every aftermarket 700-footprint action can accept a prefit here. They are made to tighter tolerances.

That machining takes time and money, so you won't find that on a $600 US rifle.

You can't compare a Blaser to a Remington/Savage/Roger. But you can compare the actions to a Impact/Terminus/Lone Peak/Defiance/Zermatt etc... etc... What you want, these can provide.

What is your cost right now for the barrel you are promoting? I can do the conversion amount.
Click to expand...
They have uniform tight machining tolerances yes and prefits ( ability to install it yourself) are available. There are also places where you can buy the prefits off the shelf ($1000 or so for the most common configurations) they sell rather quickly and you have to look/wait for them. Most of use here have specific requirements and it is often easier to find a barrel blank from one of our favorite makers (Bartlein, Proof, CRB, Krieger, ect) find our favorite gunsmith and have it finished the way we want it (length, chamber spec, color, threading, ect) wait a few weeks and install it ourselves. For rifles like a factory Remington, savage Ruger none of this is possible. There are nut barrels where the threads match but you use a nut on the barrel to set headspace but as a matter of course you send them to a gunsmith who will measure the action and cut a barrel to fit it and install it. It all comes down to cost. The average American ( most here do not fall in this camp) shooter want a rifle to go hunting, shoot beer cans, throw it in the truck and wants cheap, “accurate”, durable and the companies supply it in large quantities for 6-900 dollars plus optics. If the barrel wears out they cuss at it say what crud it is and head to local box store and buy another and a box of ammo. No targets provided.
 
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#28
oldrifleman said:
They have uniform tight machining tolerances yes and prefits ( ability to install it yourself) are available. There are also places where you can buy the prefits off the shelf ($1000 or so for the most common configurations) they sell rather quickly and you have to look/wait for them. Most of use here have specific requirements and it is often easier to find a barrel blank from one of our favorite makers (Bartlein, Proof, CRB, Krieger, ect) find our favorite gunsmith and have it finished the way we want it (length, chamber spec, color, threading, ect) wait a few weeks and install it ourselves. For rifles like a factory Remington, savage Ruger none of this is possible. There are nut barrels where the threads match but you use a nut on the barrel to set headspace but as a matter of course you send them to a gunsmith who will measure the action and cut a barrel to fit it and install it. It all comes down to cost. The average American ( most here do not fall in this camp) shooter want a rifle to go hunting, shoot beer cans, throw it in the truck and wants cheap, “accurate”, durable and the companies supply it in large quantities for 6-900 dollars plus optics. If the barrel wears out they cuss at it say what crud it is and head to local box store and buy another and a box of ammo. No targets provided.
Click to expand...

I agree with you...but did you mean to quote me, or the other guy? 😄
 
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