Optic choices for $3500 and less?

M

Marv_2101

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2024
54
34
Mississippi
#1
I’m currently assembling a rifle for my daughter and I (she’s 9) it started off as a bergara b14r in a MPA BA comp chassis and I’ve been spotting her impacts more than I’ve been shooting lately lol. So the plan is to drop a 6.5 creedmoor barreled action into the chassis and extend our ranges a bit.

-Gun Details - Will be a competition contour 6.5 creed 26”, MPA BA chassis, big horn orgin action etc. I want it 20lbs+ so she is extremely comfortable behind it.

-Shooting style - We don’t compete we just shoot for fun. I want the 6.5 CM to be a 1000 yard and in gun for her and my plans is to later have a 7ss, 7saum barrel spun up and stretch out to a mile.

-Conditions - We shoot no matter rain or shine but the optic must be good in low light as this will serve as a deer hunting gun as well (we shoot from a bench and tripods) we rarely walk over 100 yards to a stand so a heavy gun will not be a problem.

-Specifications needed - Needs to be FFP and in mils other than that the heavier the better. Considering the 7-35 magnification range this go around.


My experience with good quality glass is a leupold Mark 5 5-25x56 and a few lower end Night force scopes. The mark 5 does everything well so I would like a scope at least on par with it or a slight step up.
 
#2
Glad you are teaching your daughter! My first concern is the weight. 20 pounds is likely more weight than a 9 yr old can comfortably lift/position. Yes it will deaden the recoil but she may be reluctant to use it. My own experience is with my daughter, I also started her at 8 on lighter rifles and we had a great time. She decided at 11 to start shooting the 3 position 22 competition with the 4H team our range sponsored. Long story is that she wanted her own rifle and after searching we settled on a used walther KK300 which she tried out and said was fine, it wasn’t. It was uncomfortable for her and she actually hurt herself. This dampened her enthusiasm. Start with a 223 or 22creed) ( minimal recoil) maybe get a light varmit contour barrel aim for a 12 pound rifle. She will be able to reach out 600-800 yard and do well. You can change barrels on the creed to other calibers later. On scopes find a used vortex gen 3 or ZCO in 5-27 ish off the PX. Cheaper would be Leopold mk4 or 5 same magnification. Let her shoot a lot at ranges she is comfortable with and can have fun with dad, that is the best prescription to get her to keep shooting as she gets older/stronger. Just my 2cents as a guy who has done this twice.
 
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#4
Marv_2101 said:
I’m currently assembling a rifle for my daughter and I (she’s 9) it started off as a bergara b14r in a MPA BA comp chassis and I’ve been spotting her impacts more than I’ve been shooting lately lol. So the plan is to drop a 6.5 creedmoor barreled action into the chassis and extend our ranges a bit.

-Gun Details - Will be a competition contour 6.5 creed 26”, MPA BA chassis, big horn orgin action etc. I want it 20lbs+ so she is extremely comfortable behind it.

-Shooting style - We don’t compete we just shoot for fun. I want the 6.5 CM to be a 1000 yard and in gun for her and my plans is to later have a 7ss, 7saum barrel spun up and stretch out to a mile.

-Conditions - We shoot no matter rain or shine but the optic must be good in low light as this will serve as a deer hunting gun as well (we shoot from a bench and tripods) we rarely walk over 100 yards to a stand so a heavy gun will not be a problem.

-Specifications needed - Needs to be FFP and in mils other than that the heavier the better. Considering the 7-35 magnification range this go around.


My experience with good quality glass is a leupold Mark 5 5-25x56 and a few lower end Night force scopes. The mark 5 does everything well so I would like a scope at least on par with it or a slight step up.
Click to expand...
Hey,

Send me a message and I can send you a list of optics I would recommend with some pricing!
 
#5
oldrifleman said:
Glad you are teaching your daughter! My first concern is the weight. 20 pounds is likely more weight than a 9 yr old can comfortably lift/position. Yes it will deaden the recoil but she may be reluctant to use it. My own experience is with my daughter, I also started her at 8 on lighter rifles and we had a great time. She decided at 11 to start shooting the 3 position 22 competition with the 4H team our range sponsored. Long story is that she wanted her own rifle and after searching we settled on a used walther KK300 which she tried out and said was fine, it wasn’t. It was uncomfortable for her and she actually hurt herself. This dampened her enthusiasm. Start with a 223 or 22creed) ( minimal recoil) maybe get a light varmit contour barrel aim for a 12 pound rifle. She will be able to reach out 600-800 yard and do well. You can change barrels on the creed to other calibers later. On scopes find a used vortex gen 3 or ZCO in 5-27 ish off the PX. Cheaper would be Leopold mk4 or 5 same magnification. Let her shoot a lot at ranges she is comfortable with and can have fun with dad, that is the best prescription to get her to keep shooting as she gets older/stronger. Just my 2cents as a guy who has done this twice.
Click to expand...
Man she shoots a 20lb .22lr right now the weight won’t be an issue for her. I just ordered a proof 6.5 in competition contour so we are committed now lol.
 
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#6
I just built a boltgun for my 13 year old daughter, but I went with a 6ARC. There is barely any recoil and she enjoys shooting it.
I ended up putting a Telson 3-18x50 on it. I was not looking for a lot of magnification the scope was here for testing anyway. It turned out to be a nice and easy to use scope.
Now, the MiniFix with a suppressor, scope and bipod worked out to be about 10lbs, so we are in a different weight category here. Same concept though.
Given that you like the 5-25x Mark5, why not just get another one? That gets you some commonality and it is a good scope.
If you want to step up and do not care about weight, the next logical progression is Vortex Razor Gen3 6-36x56.
RG3 has the advantage of a very forgiving eyebox. That will be helpful for a young shooter.
If you would rather stay in the Mark5 price range, but want something different, Burris XTR Pro 5.5-30x56 is a nice scope and gives you a nice FOV boost compared to Mark5. My kids seem to like it and do not have any issues with the reticle.

ILya
 
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#9
I like the S&B PMII 5-25. There are newer scopes but the glass is on par with ZCO. They can be found used here in the mid $2000s depending on the reticle and such.

Tried to shoot you a PM, drop me one when you get a chance and I can send some more info.
 
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#10
First that 6.5 Creed will make a mile. Have shot mine out there with factory 140 ELDs.

The Vortex Gen III 6-36 would be a good choice and under your budget. Very good glass and reticle. Also if your daughter accidentally drops the rifle out of a tree stand or off a tripod and the scope shatters you just send it in for a new one. 😉
 
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#11
Rob01 said:
First that 6.5 Creed will make a mile. Have shot mine out there with factory 140 ELDs.

The Vortex Gen III 6-36 would be a good choice and under your budget. Very good glass and reticle. Also if your daughter accidentally drops the rifle out of a tree stand or off a tripod and the scope shatters you just send it in for a new one. 😉
Click to expand...
This was honestly my first thought.

Good on you OP for teaching her young!
 
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#12
Marv_2101 said:
Man she shoots a 20lb .22lr right now the weight won’t be an issue for her. I just ordered a proof 6.5 in competition contour so we are committed now lol.
Click to expand...
That is impressive, mine now has a 20lb 6creed and wouldn’t mind me swapping it to a lighter stock ( manners TCS), and that’s at 20 yrs.
 
#13
Rob01 said:
First that 6.5 Creed will make a mile. Have shot mine out there with factory 140 ELDs.

The Vortex Gen III 6-36 would be a good choice and under your budget. Very good glass and reticle. Also if your daughter accidentally drops the rifle out of a tree stand or off a tripod and the scope shatters you just send it in for a new one. 😉
Click to expand...
No doubt the 6.5 will make a mile especially at 2800fps+ I’m just a big fan of the 7mm’s but who knows once I get to shooting it more I may decide on a 6.5 PRC or 6.5 saum. So far 1000 yards is as far as I’ve had a 6.5 creedmoor and that was out of a 22” barrel going about 2600fps with factory ammo. Hand loads in a 26” barrel should do much better.
 
#14
oldrifleman said:
That is impressive, mine now has a 20lb 6creed and wouldn’t mind me swapping it to a lighter stock ( manners TCS), and that’s at 20 yrs.
Click to expand...
We don’t do any positional shooting or anything it’s more of I set her up on a bench with a bag or locked down In a tripod and she has at it. If we were running tank traps etc we would have to take a step back and punt lol.
 
#16
Rob01 said:
First that 6.5 Creed will make a mile. Have shot mine out there with factory 140 ELDs.

The Vortex Gen III 6-36 would be a good choice and under your budget. Very good glass and reticle. Also if your daughter accidentally drops the rifle out of a tree stand or off a tripod and the scope shatters you just send it in for a new one. 😉
Click to expand...
Another vote for this. I like the Vortex myself. https://cstactical.com/vortex-razor-gen-iii-6-36x56-ffp-ebr7-d-mrad-rzr-63602/, that said, if you like the Leupold, I wouldn't hesitate to go that route. since she's going to be the one shooting it, why not let her get behind the scopes and see what she likes. different eyes see and perceive things differently.
 
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#17
I agree with above the 6 dasher or something small is ideal. I just finished up a build that will be for my daughter. I did he manners night stalker for the shortened lop. I got a 6cm barrel and wish I would have stuck with my original plan of dasher. The recoil is still a bit much for her at this point so I might throw a .22lr action in it. The Vortex Razor seems like a good choice to say like everyone else because of the warranty if dropped.
 
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#18
How is the vortex razor in low light? I honestly didn’t even think about this optic but it seems to check all the boxes well.

Scopes I’m considering at the moment

Nightforce ATACR 7-35
Vortex razor 6-36
Leupold 7-35
Kahles 5-25

I think the Kahles 5-40 would be the better option but really want to keep it under that $3500-3800 mark.
 
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#19
Marv_2101 said:
How is the vortex razor in low light? I honestly didn’t even think about this optic but it seems to check all the boxes well.

Scopes I’m considering at the moment

Nightforce ATACR 7-35
Vortex razor 6-36
Leupold 7-35
Kahles 5-25

I think the Kahles 5-40 would be the better option but really want to keep it under that $3500-3800 mark.
Click to expand...
Good morning,

I'd put her behind all of them and see what she likes if you can. she's a very lucky little lady to get access to top tier scopes at 9. I don't think any of the options would be terrible, but for the low light and hunting aspect, the Kahles and Vortex would be my top picks. I think with the kahles glass and 5x magnification, it's going to perform better when that buck steps out in poor light, but the vortex only gives a little at 6x magnification and you get the best higher end magnification of all the options listed, if only by a little. Any other criteria to be considered?

edit to add;

I haven't hunted a 6-36, just a 4-27 and I it did pretty well. I killed a couple of hogs a few years ago in Texas and a doe 2 seasons ago. I'm a little partial to having lower magnification when hunting for low light performance and wider field of view.

give me a shout or drop me a pm, maybe we can arrange to get you behind some of these depending on where you are located
 
Last edited:
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#20
Marv_2101 said:
No doubt the 6.5 will make a mile especially at 2800fps+ I’m just a big fan of the 7mm’s but who knows once I get to shooting it more I may decide on a 6.5 PRC or 6.5 saum. So far 1000 yards is as far as I’ve had a 6.5 creedmoor and that was out of a 22” barrel going about 2600fps with factory ammo. Hand loads in a 26” barrel should do much better.
Click to expand...

Understandable but I run 28” barrels on my match 6.5 Creed and with factory 140s at about 2775fps they got to a mile without issue. Just an option if you didn’t want to go magnum. 1000 yards is simple for the 6.5.

The Vortex Gen III Razor is very good in low light. You will be powered down anyways and with the illuminated reticle and excellent glass and eye box it should be pretty easy to get the shot off. Then you have the higher power when playing at the range.
 
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#21
Rob01 said:
Understandable but I run 28” barrels on my match 6.5 Creed and with factory 140s at about 2775fps they got to a mile without issue. Just an option if you didn’t want to go magnum. 1000 yards is simple for the 6.5.

The Vortex Gen III Razor is very good in low light. You will be powered down anyways and with the illuminated reticle and excellent glass and eye box it should be pretty easy to get the shot off. Then you have the higher power when playing at the range.
Click to expand...
Now your making me think I should have went 28” instead of 26” on the new barrel lol
 
#24
Marv_2101 said:
How is the vortex razor in low light? I honestly didn’t even think about this optic but it seems to check all the boxes well.

Scopes I’m considering at the moment

Nightforce ATACR 7-35
Vortex razor 6-36
Leupold 7-35
Kahles 5-25

I think the Kahles 5-40 would be the better option but really want to keep it under that $3500-3800 mark.
Click to expand...
I have a NF ATACR 7-35 scope. I don't have one negative issue with it. I would not hesitate to buy another one. I never needed the warranty on any of my NF scopes. I have three (2 ATACRs and one NXS).

You might find a deal on a used one. Also, I have seen dealers mark down scopes that were on display at some show/event. Those were never mounted on a rifle. Good luck.
 
#25
Have you looked at a zeiss s3 4-25x50? You can get one for around $1800 which means a lot more $ spent on ammo or other things? I use Mine for .22 @ 50feet, and my 6.5 @ 1k distances with no problem.
 
#26
Ended up going with a vortex razor gen 3 like some of you recommended. This will be my first vortex scope and honestly wanted to try something different other than the mark 5.

Now I just need to figure out how much can’t I’ll need to get out to a mile. I’ll have a 20 moa rail and thinking about getting a 20 moa ARC M brace as well to give me 40 moa total. I just worry if I’ll still be able to retain a 100 yard zero. The razor has 36.1 mils of adjustment so that split is 18.05 plus 12 mils for the 40 moa of can’t will be 30 mils with 6 left over so I should be good with a 100 yard zero. Am I thinking about this right?
 
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#28
Marv_2101 said:
I’m currently assembling a rifle for my daughter and I (she’s 9) it started off as a bergara b14r in a MPA BA comp chassis and I’ve been spotting her impacts more than I’ve been shooting lately lol. So the plan is to drop a 6.5 creedmoor barreled action into the chassis and extend our ranges a bit.

-Gun Details - Will be a competition contour 6.5 creed 26”, MPA BA chassis, big horn orgin action etc. I want it 20lbs+ so she is extremely comfortable behind it.

-Shooting style - We don’t compete we just shoot for fun. I want the 6.5 CM to be a 1000 yard and in gun for her and my plans is to later have a 7ss, 7saum barrel spun up and stretch out to a mile.

-Conditions - We shoot no matter rain or shine but the optic must be good in low light as this will serve as a deer hunting gun as well (we shoot from a bench and tripods) we rarely walk over 100 yards to a stand so a heavy gun will not be a problem.

-Specifications needed - Needs to be FFP and in mils other than that the heavier the better. Considering the 7-35 magnification range this go around.


My experience with good quality glass is a leupold Mark 5 5-25x56 and a few lower end Night force scopes. The mark 5 does everything well so I would like a scope at least on par with it or a slight step up.
Click to expand...
Of the ones I've owned in the higher mag range...

DNT 7-35
Bushnell MatchPro 5-30
Mk5 7-35
Gen2 Razor 4.5-28
Gen3 Razor 6-36
Bushnell XRS 4.5-30
Bushnell XRS3 6-36
Element Theos 6-36
Ziess S3 6-36
Nightforce 7-35
NXS 8-32
NX8 4-32
Tangent 5-25
March HighMaster 5-42

FOR ME, the best value is the Element Theos
 
#30
Marv_2101 said:
How is the vortex razor in low light? I honestly didn’t even think about this optic but it seems to check all the boxes well.

Scopes I’m considering at the moment

Nightforce ATACR 7-35
Vortex razor 6-36
Leupold 7-35
Kahles 5-25

I think the Kahles 5-40 would be the better option but really want to keep it under that $3500-3800 mark.
Click to expand...
They are all good choices, like everyone of them. With those scopes I think the real differences are your personal preference with reticles, durability, customer service maybe if there is a problem.
 
#31
Marv_2101 said:
Ended up going with a vortex razor gen 3 like some of you recommended. This will be my first vortex scope and honestly wanted to try something different other than the mark 5.

Now I just need to figure out how much can’t I’ll need to get out to a mile. I’ll have a 20 moa rail and thinking about getting a 20 moa ARC M brace as well to give me 40 moa total. I just worry if I’ll still be able to retain a 100 yard zero. The razor has 36.1 mils of adjustment so that split is 18.05 plus 12 mils for the 40 moa of can’t will be 30 mils with 6 left over so I should be good with a 100 yard zero. Am I thinking about this right?
Click to expand...
You said in your first post that your daughter's 6.5CM will be used at 1000 yards and in, and you'd do a 7mm for the mile.

Even if you shoot the 6.5CM to a mile, how often will you do that as compared to more reasonable 6.5CM ranges? Yes, a 6.5CM will reach a mile - @Rob01 and I have plinked at 1-mile targets together (but when I was there he had a 7mm RemMag). But - with all due respect to Rob, who brings a wealth of expertise to SH - I disagree that 6.5CM is a one-mile rifle, especially with factory ammo. Even my 140gr Berger Hybrid handloads at 2780fps and single-digit SDs are out of steam out there and the vertical variation at a mile is measured in FEET.

Yes, I got hits on a 4x4-foot plate at a mile. But, for me, shooting a 6.5CM at a 1-mile target exceeds the cartridge's reliable performance capability and puts hits into the realm of luck. Rob likes to stretch a given caliber's envelope - when we do .22 sessions, he goes all the way to the back berm on the 550-yard range. I don't bother playing with a .22 past 400 yards - farthest I've shot in a match is 415, and that was only once. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

So, from my perspective, why add 20MOA to your 20MOA rail (total 40MOA) when you absolutely don't need it for 1000 and closer, and a fast 7mm will reach a mile with a 20MOA rail?

With a 6-36x56 Razor on a 20MOA rail, you can shoot the occasional mile using a few mils of holdover (I have this scope on my 6.5CM and two other rifles). IMO, this is preferable to crunching the erector spring 99.9% of the time.

Either way you go, enjoy the journey with your daughter. Sigh. My adult son shoots with me occasionally, but he has never had the enthusiasm for learning and competition that I've had (and I don't push him).
-----
(One other thing - it appears you use the word "cant" for vertical adjustment. "Cant" is the tilting of the scope reticle side to side of the rifle's barrel. "Elevation" is the word for vertical adjustment. And yes, I'm being persnickety. Once upon a time I wrote for a living.)
 
#32
DownhillFromHere said:
You said in your first post that your daughter's 6.5CM will be used at 1000 yards and in, and you'd do a 7mm for the mile.

Even if you shoot the 6.5CM to a mile, how often will you do that as compared to more reasonable 6.5CM ranges? Yes, a 6.5CM will reach a mile - @Rob01 and I have plinked at 1-mile targets together (but when I was there he had a 7mm RemMag). But - with all due respect to Rob, who brings a wealth of expertise to SH - I disagree that 6.5CM is a one-mile rifle, especially with factory ammo. Even my 140gr Berger Hybrid handloads at 2780fps and single-digit SDs are out of steam out there and the vertical variation at a mile is measured in FEET.

Yes, I got hits on a 4x4-foot plate at a mile. But, for me, shooting a 6.5CM at a 1-mile target exceeds the cartridge's reliable performance capability and puts hits into the realm of luck. Rob likes to stretch a given caliber's envelope - when we do .22 sessions, he goes all the way to the back berm on the 550-yard range. I don't bother playing with a .22 past 400 yards - farthest I've shot in a match is 415, and that was only once. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

So, from my perspective, why add 20MOA to your 20MOA rail (total 40MOA) when you absolutely don't need it for 1000 and closer, and a fast 7mm will reach a mile with a 20MOA rail?

With a 6-36x56 Razor on a 20MOA rail, you can shoot the occasional mile using a few mils of holdover (I have this scope on my 6.5CM and two other rifles). IMO, this is preferable to crunching the erector spring 99.9% of the time.

Either way you go, enjoy the journey with your daughter. Sigh. My adult son shoots with me occasionally, but he has never had the enthusiasm for learning and competition that I've had (and I don't push him).
-----
(One other thing - it appears you use the word "cant" for vertical adjustment. "Cant" is the tilting of the scope reticle side to side of the rifle's barrel. "Elevation" is the word for vertical adjustment. And yes, I'm being persnickety. Once upon a time I wrote for a living.)
Click to expand...
Totally agree with your comments with respect to the realistic capabilities of the 6.5 CM. I have had hits on a 4' x 4' target at a mile also (Coleman's Creek) using a 6.5CM ammo however, not consistent performance. I have seen hits on a 12" target at a mile however, you can waste a lot of ammo attempting that fete. I use my 6.5 CM out to about 1,000 yards and my 300 PRC beyond that distance.
 
#33
Paul1262 said:
Totally agree with your comments with respect to the realistic capabilities of the 6.5 CM. I have had hits on a 4' x 4' target at a mile also (Coleman's Creek) using a 6.5CM ammo however, not consistent performance. I have seen hits on a 12" target at a mile however, you can waste a lot of ammo attempting that fete. I use my 6.5 CM out to about 1,000 yards and my 300 PRC beyond that distance.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's where Rob and I shot the mile. While I got a few hits on the 4x4' plate with 6.5CM, Rob achieved multiple hits on the 12" plate with his 7mm RemMag (175gr Hornady handloads I think).

That session got me enthused about building a 300 PRC because, at a mile in the 10-15mph full-value wind, the 6.5CM was blowing around like a .22 at 400 yards while Rob's rounds seemed unfazed.

Then, fortunately, I thought about it over the coming days. There is only the occasional ELR competition at CC and other venues within <3 hour drive time, and I saw no sense in building a rifle for which I would have to buy new dies, powder, etc. for a new and expensive-to-load (relative to my .224/.243/.264 caliber rifles) cartridge and for which I'd have no use but plinking (I "need" the purpose of competition ;-) ).

So I got over that itch, and instead built a Rim-X .22 to compare/contrast with my first-gen Vudoo... that's another saga.
-------
Bottom line: I just see no sense for OP to permanently scrunch his erector springs preparing to occasionally shoot an inadequate cartridge to a mile.
 
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#34
I wouldn't build or buy another rifle chambered in 300 PRC just to shoot in maybe two ELR matches each year. I belong to two ranges, one that goes out to 1,000 yards and the other to 1-mile. My Barrett MRAD is chambered in 6.5 CM and 300 PRC and satisfies both needs of the 1,000 range and the 1-mile range and any ELR matches.
 
#35
Yes the 6.5 is not ideal for a mile but it makes the trip. If he was going to do it once a year it will be fine. If he is going to be competing in ELR then no the Creedmoor would be a poor choice. Past 1500 yards is about where it starts getting tricky. It’s easy 1200 yard rifle and then some. No problem at range 7 at Coleman’s hitting the steel.

I sold all my magnums as I had no use for them anymore. The 7mmRM Gary speaks of was my last and that was great with the 180 ELD-Ms at Coleman’s. No real use for them anymore. Too much powder and recoil and low barrel life. I’ll stick with short action cartridges.

Having the 40 moa total in cant won’t hurt anything in the Razor. Had it in multiple rifles like that for years. But as mentioned if you don’t plan to use it then 20 moa will work just fine and get you plenty far. A 140 ELD at 2750fps will take about 8.8 mils to 1000 so you will have 18mils on a flat base and about 24 mils on a 20 moa. More than enough.
 
#36
First, congrats on hitting the 12" target on #6 at Coleman's with the 7mmm, an enviable accomplishment. With a 6.5 CM you need a good spotter, plenty of ammo, or just good luck. The 6.5 CM is best suited for shooting steel on #7 out to 1200 yards.
 
#38
Nightforce seems like it would be a great option. I can make you a great deal on one. Feel free to message me or call me at 504-565-0629
 
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