NEW- Limited Razor 1-6

Euro.Connor

Euro.Connor

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Oct 3, 2023
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#1
This is a really cool kit...Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099
These are super limited and once they are gone, they're gone. Currently in transit to us Due 3/28

IMG_5659(1).JPG



Order yours below, or PM me:

www.eurooptic.com

Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Black Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Black Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099
www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com
 
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#2
That's a very cool version. The illumination in this is diffractive, like in the Gen3, except it is in the second focal plane. They originally developed this version at a specific request of a military customer. Very few ever went out to civilians if any.

With diffractive illumination instead of a fiber dot, you can have an etched reticle with wind holds below center and more complicated reticle features.

If it wasn't the f-ing MOA, I'd be the first in line to get one. As far as 1x speed on target in an LPVO, that version of the Gen2, is probably the fastest LPVO I have seen to date bar none.

ILya
 
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#3
So, a ranger battalion intentionally ordered a scope with a mil reticle and moa adjustments? Is it 1995? I’m sure it’s cool. And it has Koshkin’s endorsement. And it’s the right color. But mismatched mil/moa? Man that’s a nonstarter. I was cool with it when I thought it was just a moa reticle. I guess I could get past it- as the turrets are capped so you’re not expected to dial holds- but it just seems like a swing and miss. And, the BDC + mil scale is weird, or overly complicated, maybe both.
 
#5
Why does anyone care what the turrets are in? It's a BDC for M855A1 out of a 14.5" M4. For this optic and rifle setup whatever you're doing can and likely should be done on holds. The turrets were likely specced as MOA for commonality with existing optics for ease of zeroing. The Aimpoint T2, Eotech EXPS3, and Elcan SpectreDR used by that unit all have 1/2 moa adjustments, so it does not make sense to issue a rifleman one optic that doesn't adjust like the rest. The mil scale below the BDC exists because with the intended weapon setup, you can't guarantee a BDC will line up well in all conditions at longer distances.

One advantage of the dedicated BDC over a LPVO mil grid reticle like a Nightforce FC DMX or the Vortex EBR9 MRAD is that you don't have to do quick wind math because the reticle has your wind holds in mph already, and you are unlikely to engage using the wrong row of dots because it's not laid out in a grid, each row is visually distinctive. Disadvantage is that you likely won't be able to get the BDC to line up well with other barrel lengths and projectiles besides 14.5 and M855A1 or M855. The distances for the BDC are specced in meters (expected for the Army) so it's slightly inconvenient if you're accustomed to thinking in yards.

I have one of these scopes and about 1.5k rounds using it, and for the intended purpose it's a well thought out reticle. So far as history is concerned these optics are still in use with the 75th.
 
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#7
Eyesquared said:
Why does anyone care what the turrets are in? It's a BDC for M855A1 out of a 14.5" M4. For this optic and rifle setup whatever you're doing can and likely should be done on holds. The turrets were likely specced as MOA for commonality with existing optics for ease of zeroing. The Aimpoint T2, Eotech EXPS3, and Elcan SpectreDR used by that unit all have 1/2 moa adjustments, so it does not make sense to issue a rifleman one optic that doesn't adjust like the rest. The mil scale below the BDC exists because with the intended weapon setup, you can't guarantee a BDC will line up well in all conditions at longer distances.

One advantage of the dedicated BDC over a LPVO mil grid reticle like a Nightforce FC DMX or the Vortex EBR9 MRAD is that you don't have to do quick wind math because the reticle has your wind holds in mph already, and you are unlikely to engage using the wrong row of dots because it's not laid out in a grid, each row is visually distinctive. Disadvantage is that you likely won't be able to get the BDC to line up well with other barrel lengths and projectiles besides 14.5 and M855A1 or M855. The distances for the BDC are specced in meters (expected for the Army) so it's slightly inconvenient if you're accustomed to thinking in yards.

I have one of these scopes and about 1.5k rounds using it, and for the intended purpose it's a well thought out reticle. So far as history is concerned these optics are still in use with the 75th.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is obviously designed to set and forget the zero, hence the capped turrets. But, it’s fricking 2025, we have graduated past mismatched turrets. And, if you say “but, I think in inches” I’m just putting you on ignore. We’re supposed to be smart enough to be able to have scopes that adjust in MOA and scopes that adjust in mrad, and not have to ask a Sgt “how many clicky things do I need to turn the turny thing to move the aimy thing 3 hashy things?” Matched turrets is a quality of life improvement that civilians get to choose. And it should just be a given that the ruler adjuster matches the ruler.

If you’re putting this on the designated rifle using the specified ammunition, then most of this holds. But, most civilians who buy this will not. The BDC will not line up with their rifle/ammunition combination at any distance. Adding a mrad section below the BDC just proves the point.

One disadvantage of a BDC is it’s guaranteed not to line up with most rifle/ammunition combinations. And, it’s a crap shoot whether it works when it’s supposed to work.

Half moa adjustments are probably fine for 4 moa ammunition where any hit on a torso sized target is a good hit. But Euro optic isn’t selling these to the Rangers. They’re selling them to civilians. We’re not constrained by the lowest common denominator in an army battalion.

But it’s good for; scope collectors (?), cloners, mil nut huggers, and those shooting 855a1 from a 14.5” rifle. That’s a limited market, but there’s limited stock…

The above notwithstanding, $1600 for the scope, mount, caps, and bag is a pretty good value, all considered. But, the reticle is still weird and the mismatched turrets are a miss.
 
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#8
hlee said:
Yes, it is obviously designed to set and forget the zero, hence the capped turrets. But, it’s fricking 2025, we have graduated past mismatched turrets. And, if you say “but, I think in inches” I’m just putting you on ignore. We’re supposed to be smart enough to be able to have scopes that adjust in MOA and scopes that adjust in mrad, and not have to ask a Sgt “how many clicky things do I need to turn the turny thing to move the aimy thing 3 hashy things?” Matched turrets is a quality of life improvement that civilians get to choose. And it should just be a given that the ruler adjuster matches the ruler.

If you’re putting this on the designated rifle using the specified ammunition, then most of this holds. But, most civilians who buy this will not. The BDC will not line up with their rifle/ammunition combination at any distance. Adding a mrad section below the BDC just proves the point.

One disadvantage of a BDC is it’s guaranteed not to line up with most rifle/ammunition combinations. And, it’s a crap shoot whether it works when it’s supposed to work.

Half moa adjustments are probably fine for 4 moa ammunition where any hit on a torso sized target is a good hit. But Euro optic isn’t selling these to the Rangers. They’re selling them to civilians. We’re not constrained by the lowest common denominator in an army battalion.

But it’s good for; scope collectors (?), cloners, mil nut huggers, and those shooting 855a1 from a 14.5” rifle. That’s a limited market, but there’s limited stock…

The above notwithstanding, $1600 for the scope, mount, caps, and bag is a pretty good value, all considered. But, the reticle is still weird and the mismatched turrets are a miss.
Click to expand...
You have to remember this is a 1-6 optic, in my experience in most lighting conditions it's very difficult to spot 5.56 holes in a target at 100yd/100m and make an adjustment with confidence, so you're not going to be measuring your group through the scope and making a zeroing adjustment. Instead you're generally going downrange to check where the group center is, at which point it's a complete wash whether it's in mils or moa, most people can do moa just fine (same as your red dots and same as the majority of optics with BDCs).

Yeah, I agree it's a BDC and has all the consequent downsides. I use it with M855 (not A1) and the trajectory matches adequately (I have "trued" it out to 500m), the ammo groups adequately (consistent <2moa for 5 groups of 5). I'll be the first to say this is a critical limitation of the scope - none of the advantages of the reticle apply if you can't get it to line up with your rifle and ammo. Fortunately Eurooptic was able to get Vortex to publish the exact MRAD subtensions so you can run the #s in AB or 4DOF.

Environmental conditions vary but people seriously overthink that aspect of BDCs - for a 1-6 LPVO if it's cold out / high air density, favor high on target and hold more wind. Hot out / low air density, favor low and hold less wind. The BDC has some other advantages, because of it, they were also able to put mover holds on the main horizontal stadia (which is where the intended zero hits out to 200m) and simplify those engagements as well. It's essentially a very fast point and click reticle for the intended setup.

Also, look at the MRAD reticle Vortex offers in the commercially available version of this scope. It's not terrible but because it's a wire reticle, they couldn't number the hashes and there are no wind dots - it's more prone to error. It's just that for a 1-6 LPVO (arguably the fastest one on 1x) most people aren't worried about that stuff.
 
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#11
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#12
hlee said:
Yes, it is obviously designed to set and forget the zero, hence the capped turrets. But, it’s fricking 2025, we have graduated past mismatched turrets. And, if you say “but, I think in inches” I’m just putting you on ignore. We’re supposed to be smart enough to be able to have scopes that adjust in MOA and scopes that adjust in mrad, and not have to ask a Sgt “how many clicky things do I need to turn the turny thing to move the aimy thing 3 hashy things?” Matched turrets is a quality of life improvement that civilians get to choose. And it should just be a given that the ruler adjuster matches the ruler.

If you’re putting this on the designated rifle using the specified ammunition, then most of this holds. But, most civilians who buy this will not. The BDC will not line up with their rifle/ammunition combination at any distance. Adding a mrad section below the BDC just proves the point.

One disadvantage of a BDC is it’s guaranteed not to line up with most rifle/ammunition combinations. And, it’s a crap shoot whether it works when it’s supposed to work.

Half moa adjustments are probably fine for 4 moa ammunition where any hit on a torso sized target is a good hit. But Euro optic isn’t selling these to the Rangers. They’re selling them to civilians. We’re not constrained by the lowest common denominator in an army battalion.

But it’s good for; scope collectors (?), cloners, mil nut huggers, and those shooting 855a1 from a 14.5” rifle. That’s a limited market, but there’s limited stock…

The above notwithstanding, $1600 for the scope, mount, caps, and bag is a pretty good value, all considered. But, the reticle is still weird and the mismatched turrets are a miss.
Click to expand...
The mismatch works for a military unit where every other line optic has MOA adjustments. And the mil below the BDC works because the Army trains to range with reticle using mil. For any sort of scope you’d be dialing, complete non-starter. But for the customer who specced this, it makes sense. One of the very few times mismatched reticles/turrets makes sense.

Yes, BDC in meters can be limiting for US customers. But it’s not completely limited. It just so happens that meters 14.5” M855 5.56 BDCs match perfectly with my 11.5” shooting 77gr TMKs in yards. And matches up out to 400 with 70gr TSX.

That said, yes this is primarily for cloners or people serving who want to throw it on their M4. And that’s okay. They’re low quantity enough that I can guarantee they’ll sell out.
 
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#13
hlee said:
Yes, it is obviously designed to set and forget the zero, hence the capped turrets. But, it’s fricking 2025, we have graduated past mismatched turrets. And, if you say “but, I think in inches” I’m just putting you on ignore. We’re supposed to be smart enough to be able to have scopes that adjust in MOA and scopes that adjust in mrad, and not have to ask a Sgt “how many clicky things do I need to turn the turny thing to move the aimy thing 3 hashy things?” Matched turrets is a quality of life improvement that civilians get to choose. And it should just be a given that the ruler adjuster matches the ruler.

If you’re putting this on the designated rifle using the specified ammunition, then most of this holds. But, most civilians who buy this will not. The BDC will not line up with their rifle/ammunition combination at any distance. Adding a mrad section below the BDC just proves the point.

One disadvantage of a BDC is it’s guaranteed not to line up with most rifle/ammunition combinations. And, it’s a crap shoot whether it works when it’s supposed to work.

Half moa adjustments are probably fine for 4 moa ammunition where any hit on a torso sized target is a good hit. But Euro optic isn’t selling these to the Rangers. They’re selling them to civilians. We’re not constrained by the lowest common denominator in an army battalion.

But it’s good for; scope collectors (?), cloners, mil nut huggers, and those shooting 855a1 from a 14.5” rifle. That’s a limited market, but there’s limited stock…

The above notwithstanding, $1600 for the scope, mount, caps, and bag is a pretty good value, all considered. But, the reticle is still weird and the mismatched turrets are a miss.
Click to expand...
If you want a precision scope buy something else. A 1-6X anything isn't it.
 
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#14
Eyesquared said:
You have to remember this is a 1-6 optic, in my experience in most lighting conditions it's very difficult to spot 5.56 holes in a target at 100yd/100m and make an adjustment with confidence, so you're not going to be measuring your group through the scope and making a zeroing adjustment. Instead you're generally going downrange to check where the group center is, at which point it's a complete wash whether it's in mils or moa, most people can do moa just fine (same as your red dots and same as the majority of optics with BDCs).

Yeah, I agree it's a BDC and has all the consequent downsides. I use it with M855 (not A1) and the trajectory matches adequately (I have "trued" it out to 500m), the ammo groups adequately (consistent <2moa for 5 groups of 5). I'll be the first to say this is a critical limitation of the scope - none of the advantages of the reticle apply if you can't get it to line up with your rifle and ammo. Fortunately Eurooptic was able to get Vortex to publish the exact MRAD subtensions so you can run the #s in AB or 4DOF.

Environmental conditions vary but people seriously overthink that aspect of BDCs - for a 1-6 LPVO if it's cold out / high air density, favor high on target and hold more wind. Hot out / low air density, favor low and hold less wind. The BDC has some other advantages, because of it, they were also able to put mover holds on the main horizontal stadia (which is where the intended zero hits out to 200m) and simplify those engagements as well. It's essentially a very fast point and click reticle for the intended setup.

Also, look at the MRAD reticle Vortex offers in the commercially available version of this scope. It's not terrible but because it's a wire reticle, they couldn't number the hashes and there are no wind dots - it's more prone to error. It's just that for a 1-6 LPVO (arguably the fastest one on 1x) most people aren't worried about that stuff.
Click to expand...
People trying to make infantry sights into precision scopes is par for the course around here.
 
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#15
308pirate said:
People trying to make infantry sights into precision scopes is par for the course around here.
Click to expand...
I appreciate any opportunity to nerd about about this scope and the reticle design, in my opinion it's been somewhat overlooked because buyers have been fed the line that they must have mils at all costs and that any BDC or BDC-style reticle is the devil. Most people are not shooting blind stages for speed (or similar outside of match context) so they are accustomed to having time to range targets, prepare elaborate dope with wind brackets, dial dope, and memorize a series of holds in advance. As a result they don't realize how much simpler this is where you can drop down into position, range a target through the scope (staying in your firing position) and know your wind hold just by estimating wind in mph vs doing math.

Even for non-military shooters there are intelligent ways to get some of these advantages in a scope that will match a variety of setups (i.e. tremor 8 style reticle or tremor 7) but they don't seem to be catching on. In my opinion for a <=16" 5.56 gas gun, the mil grid reticles in many LPVOs are somewhat overkill.
 
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#19
Euro.Connor said:
This is a really cool kit...Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099
These are super limited and once they are gone, they're gone. Currently in transit to us Due 3/28

View attachment 8645152


Order yours below, or PM me:

www.eurooptic.com

Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Black Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099

FREE SHIPPING on Vortex Razor HD Gen II-E 1-6x24 EBR-7F MOA SFP Black Riflescope w/ Reptilia Mount & Armageddon Bag RZR-16099
www.eurooptic.com www.eurooptic.com
Click to expand...
Did these sell out or they will go on sale when they arrive
 
#23
ClangClang said:
From the responses here, it's pretty easy to see who shoots carbine and 2-gun matches and who hasn't ever had to shoot fast before.
Click to expand...

Yes.
That's the only reason I have a M193 BDC reticle and just buy cases of m193 for 3 gun.

Doesn't hurt that 50grn v-maxes are close enough to 300 yards where a 1-6 is falling off hard. They hit coyotes plenty hard enough there.
 
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#24
I guess everyone’s experience will vary…….kinda.

But on a 1-6 like this, I’d never touch the turrets again after zero’ing. So I couldn’t care less what the reticle or the turrets are and don’t care if they are mismatched.

I personally don’t know of anyone else who uses these or similar professionally that cares. It’s generally just talking points online with people insisting it needs to be mils, or needs to be matching, or needs to be FFP…..etc. Rarely anyone who actually uses them full time.
 
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#25
Rio Precision Gunworks said:
I guess everyone’s experience will vary…….kinda.

But on a 1-6 like this, I’d never touch the turrets again after zero’ing. So I couldn’t care less what the reticle or the turrets are and don’t care if they are mismatched.

I personally don’t know of anyone else who uses these or similar professionally that cares. It’s generally just talking points online with people insisting it needs to be mils, or needs to be matching, or needs to be FFP…..etc. Rarely anyone who actually uses them full time.
Click to expand...
If the reticle sucks, wanting matching turrets seems sensible.
 
#26
Rio Precision Gunworks said:
I guess everyone’s experience will vary…….kinda.

But on a 1-6 like this, I’d never touch the turrets again after zero’ing. So I couldn’t care less what the reticle or the turrets are and don’t care if they are mismatched.

I personally don’t know of anyone else who uses these or similar professionally that cares. It’s generally just talking points online with people insisting it needs to be mils, or needs to be matching, or needs to be FFP…..etc. Rarely anyone who actually uses them full time.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm no professional but I used a Razor 1-6 for years in 3 gun matches and just fun and once zeroed I put the turret caps on and never touched them. Used the reticle for everything.
 
#29
brodband8 said:
Never thought I'd see the day when people feel the need to dial their razor 1-6s
Click to expand...

I had a guy at a rimfire match tell me I'm dumb for using mill, and he can do better with his moa and duplex because "those Christmas trees block your view and you'll never find the target!".

He timed out every stage and finished behind an 8 year old that could barely pick up her gun.

He left after telling us all it was unrealistic and his matches will be different.
 
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#30
chevy_man said:
I had a guy at a rimfire match tell me I'm dumb for using mill, and he can do better with his moa and duplex because "those Christmas trees block your view and you'll never find the target!".

He timed out every stage and finished behind an 8 year old that could barely pick up her gun.

He left after telling us all it was unrealistic and his matches will be different.
Click to expand...
What a fucking tool. LOL
 
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#31
chevy_man said:
I had a guy at a rimfire match tell me I'm dumb for using mill, and he can do better with his moa and duplex because "those Christmas trees block your view and you'll never find the target!".

He timed out every stage and finished behind an 8 year old that could barely pick up her gun.

He left after telling us all it was unrealistic and his matches will be different.
Click to expand...
Rimfire brings out some interesting cats. I remember a guy telling me he’d never heard of CenterX ammunition and that the only 22lr ammo worth buying was Remington Golden Bullet. The same guy was trying to halt the match because he didn’t thing some of the target hangers had a target on them. I’m looking at them through my scope and he’s all “there ain’t no targets on this stage…”
 
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#32
hlee said:
Rimfire brings out some interesting cats. I remember a guy telling me he’d never heard of CenterX ammunition and that the only 22lr ammo worth buying was Remington Golden Bullet. The same guy was trying to halt the match because he didn’t thing some of the target hangers had a target on them. I’m looking at them through my scope and he’s all “there ain’t no targets on this stage…”
Click to expand...

Come on! He just couldn’t see it through his 2-8x Rimfire scope his gun store told him to buy. lol
 
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