Noveske DDF Barrels

#51
So I'll admit, I'm not very tactical. I just kill pigs and coyotes, usually with a 12.5" or 20" Grendel, Noveske builds, Noveske barrels.

I struggle to understand what is gained from "heating them up" with 40 rounds and checking accuracy at that point. It is a free country and if you want to do 5 mag dumps and check accuracy - hell, I'm academically curious at that point myself - but... why?

As I say every chance I get, I have 3 Noveske Grendels and on most days with factory Hornady ammo, I can reliably generate .6 MOA 5 shot groups. I've struggled to put 10 in 1", but I got tired of spending $25 at a whack on what is ultimately vanity. And, perhaps I should simply slow down, but what I'm really getting at is this -

I think of these guns as precision rifles. They're capable of real world hitting a 3-4" target at 300-400 yards, and we're using factory ammo. With handloads, we're likley under half a minute.

I can't imagine ever getting off 15-20 rounds fast in practice. Even with a pack of 50 pigs, they be scattered, smothered and covered by the time I got through a mag. And, if I'm shooting that many movers and my accuracy went from .6 MOA to 1.5 MOA - I'm pretty sure the pig hauling ass across the field would be a bigger problem than the groups opening up a bit. I don't see the benefit in chewing out the neck any faster.

If you're looking at this from a competition angle or you're fast roping into a terrorist compound, mea culpa - but beyond that
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#52
pangris said:
So I'll admit, I'm not very tactical. I just kill pigs and coyotes, usually with a 12.5" or 20" Grendel, Noveske builds, Noveske barrels.

I struggle to understand what is gained from "heating them up" with 40 rounds and checking accuracy at that point. It is a free country and if you want to do 5 mag dumps and check accuracy - hell, I'm academically curious at that point myself - but... why?

As I say every chance I get, I have 3 Noveske Grendels and on most days with factory Hornady ammo, I can reliably generate .6 MOA 5 shot groups. I've struggled to put 10 in 1", but I got tired of spending $25 at a whack on what is ultimately vanity. And, perhaps I should simply slow down, but what I'm really getting at is this -

I think of these guns as precision rifles. They're capable of real world hitting a 3-4" target at 300-400 yards, and we're using factory ammo. With handloads, we're likley under half a minute.

I can't imagine ever getting off 15-20 rounds fast in practice. Even with a pack of 50 pigs, they be scattered, smothered and covered by the time I got through a mag. And, if I'm shooting that many movers and my accuracy went from .6 MOA to 1.5 MOA - I'm pretty sure the pig hauling ass across the field would be a bigger problem than the groups opening up a bit. I don't see the benefit in chewing out the neck any faster.

If you're looking at this from a competition angle or you're fast roping into a terrorist compound, mea culpa - but beyond that
View attachment 8650914
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Probably because Noveske is claiming the DDF machining applied to these barrels was developed with the folks at Tacom, and is using a lot of the same language that Tacom uses to talk up their structured barrels. And using that to justify the substantial increase in price.

For example:


Noveske DDF.jpg
 
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#53
I got that, but my point is - there is allowing for a higher rate of fire with faster cooling, and then there is ballistic masturbation - feels good, accomplishes little.

I can appreciate checking out the claims of the manufacturer for a fancy new toy, I'm just trying to understand when you'd ever get real world scenarios that would lead to the results seen running 40 rounds through it "to get the barrel hot".

I was reminded of this thread because I hear someone dropping hammers fast in the distance...
 
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#54
pangris said:
So I'll admit, I'm not very tactical. I just kill pigs and coyotes, usually with a 12.5" or 20" Grendel, Noveske builds, Noveske barrels.

I struggle to understand what is gained from "heating them up" with 40 rounds and checking accuracy at that point. It is a free country and if you want to do 5 mag dumps and check accuracy - hell, I'm academically curious at that point myself - but... why?

As I say every chance I get, I have 3 Noveske Grendels and on most days with factory Hornady ammo, I can reliably generate .6 MOA 5 shot groups. I've struggled to put 10 in 1", but I got tired of spending $25 at a whack on what is ultimately vanity. And, perhaps I should simply slow down, but what I'm really getting at is this -

I think of these guns as precision rifles. They're capable of real world hitting a 3-4" target at 300-400 yards, and we're using factory ammo. With handloads, we're likley under half a minute.

I can't imagine ever getting off 15-20 rounds fast in practice. Even with a pack of 50 pigs, they be scattered, smothered and covered by the time I got through a mag. And, if I'm shooting that many movers and my accuracy went from .6 MOA to 1.5 MOA - I'm pretty sure the pig hauling ass across the field would be a bigger problem than the groups opening up a bit. I don't see the benefit in chewing out the neck any faster.

If you're looking at this from a competition angle or you're fast roping into a terrorist compound, mea culpa - but beyond that
View attachment 8650914
Click to expand...
Yep I hear ya, mostly just curious though. Also I thought the question about heat would come up given how much marketing was put out by Noveske using language such as, “Deep flute cooling, heat reduction/dispersion, thermal dampening, etc.” There’s a lot of technical jargon put out on these barrels that most of us, myself included, never give thought to, never needed to know, or is just plain not relevant to our uses.

Given the groups it was shooting I would have probably walked away thinking this rifle flat out shoots, period. Now I know that well, as long as the barrel isn’t too hot then yeah that’s mostly true despite what the Marketing literature might point to.

For my uses, hunting, paper punching, teaching the kids to shoot and instagram photos, this setup definitely ticks all those boxes. Is the DDF price tag worth it over the non DDF profile barrels or others??? Time will tell but maybe not.
 
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#55
pangris said:
I got that, but my point is - there is allowing for a higher rate of fire with faster cooling, and then there is ballistic masturbation - feels good, accomplishes little.

I can appreciate checking out the claims of the manufacturer for a fancy new toy, I'm just trying to understand when you'd ever get real world scenarios that would lead to the results seen running 40 rounds through it "to get the barrel hot".

I was reminded of this thread because I hear someone dropping hammers fast in the distance...
Click to expand...

Ballistic Masturbation? :rolleyes:
 
#57
pangris said:
I got that, but my point is - there is allowing for a higher rate of fire with faster cooling, and then there is ballistic masturbation - feels good, accomplishes little.

I can appreciate checking out the claims of the manufacturer for a fancy new toy, I'm just trying to understand when you'd ever get real world scenarios that would lead to the results seen running 40 rounds through it "to get the barrel hot".

I was reminded of this thread because I hear someone dropping hammers fast in the distance...
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Yeah, I can’t imagine any scenario where one might expect to put 40 shots down range and still expect to have the rifle not string, shift point of impact, or otherwise not hit in the general expected vicinity…
 
#58
hlee said:
Yeah, I can’t imagine any scenario where one might expect to put 40 shots down range and still expect to have the rifle not string, shift point of impact, or otherwise not hit in the general expected vicinity…
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A while back, I posted about a CHF barrel I had that would hold .8-1MOA even from my meager hands for about 12 rounds. From there on out, it would grow about 1MOA for each 5-7 rounds fired (not rapidly either). When doing a 6x5, I'd be lucky to keep the last 5 of a 30-round mag in a 5" circle at 100y.

While I have made some impressive first, second, third round hits on targets at distance that should be beyond .223/5.56 much less this non-precision setup. However, I (and I'm sure some others) would find its shifting to be unacceptable even outside the scope of a gasser.

What I think some fail to realize, is that if an individual wishes to do a days worth of shooting/training, they are at the mercy of either:
a) allowing the gun to cool to acceptable limits...i.e. time management
b) understanding where the gun is in the cooling cycle and working within those limits.

As always, there is a complete failure to grasp nuance and go full-retard to the "do 5 mag dumps" as well as ignore much less what is the purpose.


Just for fun, I'll leave this here, from a peer of mine that likes doing stupid accuracy shit with bullet hoses:


44Ik0Bu.jpg
 
#60
... God forbid someone is in that situation, a rifle that starts at sub MOA and expands to 2.5 after she's good and hot isn't a worst case scenario.

I understand that we can't always expect 1 shot 1 kill but with a precision rifle and skilled operator I'd hope the ratio wasn't say 40:1 either.
 
#62
Historically noveskee barrels were made by pac nor. I know they burned down a couple years ago. Did they ever rebuild? Are they still making their barrels?

Some of the most accurate AR barrels were early noveskee/pac nor spr barrels. I made alot of money building and selling them in the 00s.
 
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#64
dms416 said:
A while back, I posted about a CHF barrel I had that would hold .8-1MOA even from my meager hands for about 12 rounds. From there on out, it would grow about 1MOA for each 5-7 rounds fired (not rapidly either). When doing a 6x5, I'd be lucky to keep the last 5 of a 30-round mag in a 5" circle at 100y.

While I have made some impressive first, second, third round hits on targets at distance that should be beyond .223/5.56 much less this non-precision setup. However, I (and I'm sure some others) would find its shifting to be unacceptable even outside the scope of a gasser.

What I think some fail to realize, is that if an individual wishes to do a days worth of shooting/training, they are at the mercy of either:
a) allowing the gun to cool to acceptable limits...i.e. time management
b) understanding where the gun is in the cooling cycle and working within those limits.

As always, there is a complete failure to grasp nuance and go full-retard to the "do 5 mag dumps" as well as ignore much less what is the purpose.


Just for fun, I'll leave this here, from a peer of mine that likes doing stupid accuracy shit with bullet hoses:


44Ik0Bu.jpg
Click to expand...

kthomas said:
Perhaps if one was on a rooftop in Najaf...
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I thought my post was dripping with irony, but a 40 round string isn’t out of the realm of possibility for a 2 gun, 3 gun, “practical carbine,” or run and gun competition stage. To speak nothing of a carbine training course. And, wasn’t Noveske a SEAL or something? I’d suspect his experiences colored the goals of the company.

Improperly stress reliever barrels will not only open up as they heat (which I would expect of any barrel), but they will also start to string shots, change mean point of impact, and throw wild flyers. This probably isn’t an issue if you’re hunting pigs and you only get a hand full of shots. Or, if you’re sitting at a bench on a square range and can shoot at a slow cadence.

But, when you pull up to the comp stage, it is what it is. Double tap 15 and targets ranging from 15-300 yards with an aggressive par time and you’re heating your barrel right up. Then there’s the 2 day carbine course that says “bring 1000 rounds.” Bring gloves too, b/c that barrel’s gonna be hot. And yeah, there are environments where gunfire spawns targets.
 
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#65
Competition is one thing and I agree if that is what you're doing, you may need purpose built/custom built/better than. On the other hand, I've taken many 2-5 day rifle classes and most of the rifle/shooter combo's can't hold 3 MOA + it would be a rare shooter who brought an X Arc, Grendel, intermediate caliber at 2-3x the cost of 556.

But - competition, rooftop warfare, training class - I'd question how many rifles would give *demonstrably superior results*.

I don't have a Noveske tattoo or anything but to be sure a fan. I don't own any 6 ARC or DDF so no dog in those fights, but on balance, my experience with my 556 and Grendel Noveskes is universally sub MOA and as reliable as semi gets. Better is always possible, but I'd be curious to know exactly what is "better" that doesn't go into the realm of specifically being a game gun, in all seriousness.
 
#67
Ernest 5.56 said:
Has anyone done a hot barrel test with and without JP heats ink to see the effects ?
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Not very scientific, just I had a 12,5 Noveske SS barrel that I had to dump 60 rounds through and then took a 350 meter shot with and hit a head size target exactly where I was aiming.

That is the true advantage of the Noveske barrels over the other Precision barrel makers. You can rapid fire it, or even on auto, and you don't completely destroy the barrel. I know for a fact that a WOA SS barrel will be opened up to about 2 MOA after you fire a 30 round mag on auto.
 
#68
Docsherm said:
That is the true advantage of the Noveske barrels over the other Precision barrel makers. You can rapid fire it, or even on auto, and you don't completely destroy the barrel. I know for a fact that a WOA SS barrel will be opened up to about 2 MOA after you fire a 30 round mag on auto.
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I have no doubt that Noveske barrels were instrumental to getting people to believe a decently accurate fighting rifle could be had in the AR15.

But beating a soft-as-butter "match" stainless with a hardness in the 20's and tight as fuck chamber isn't all that impressive...
Doing it with a stainless barrel 20ish years ago...OK.

In today's market with far more options, I don't see where anyone can't spec out something as good if not BETTER if they choose to. Moreover, even the military has figured out that even with basic bitch chrome line and the proper trigger, FF rail, ammo, and glass that much, much more can be done than the average person expected.
 
#69
dms416 said:
I have no doubt that Noveske barrels were instrumental to getting people to believe a decently accurate fighting rifle could be had in the AR15.

But beating a soft-as-butter "match" stainless with a hardness in the 20's and tight as fuck chamber isn't all that impressive...
Doing it with a stainless barrel 20ish years ago...OK.

In today's market with far more options, I don't see where anyone can't spec out something as good if not BETTER if they choose to. Moreover, even the military has figured out that even with basic bitch chrome line and the proper trigger, FF rail, ammo, and glass that much, much more can be done than the average person expected.
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Nobody is saying that all the basic riflemen need a SS barrel. It is for a very specific situation. The bast part is that most of the SS barrels would hit the end of their life span during pre-mission training and need to be replaced. Changing a barrel without a lot of training on it before a deployment is not a good plan at all. Not so with the Noveske SS barrels, their life span is much better.

Does everyone need a SS barrel? Absolutely not. Most people can't even out shoot a good CHF barrel, let alone a great SS one.

Not trying to be snarky or anything, but have you shot a good SS Noveske barrel? I have several and I also have severl of the best CHF barrels out there. The Noveske SS side by side is incredibly more precise then any CHF.
 
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#70
Docsherm said:
Not trying to be snarky or anything, but have you shot a good SS Noveske barrel? I have several and I also have severl of the best CHF barrels out there. The Noveske SS side by side is incredibly more precise then any CHF.
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You have at least 1 of my cast-offs actually.

I've had 4x Noveske's. 18, 16, 14.5 and a CHF 16". Or it might be 5 in that I doubled down and got a 2nd 16" stainless...
Also had 2x of Joel's 16" V7 barrels
4x different Centurion stainless (2x 18" mk12, a 16" recce on a Bartlein, and a 14" spr)
2x Kreigers including a 20" cut down to 18"
1x Proof carbon 18"
And a Craddock 16" Intermediate Bartlein 1:7.7"

"Incredibly" is a bit of a stretch for the the Noveske. They certainly kick the shit out of their OWN Chf barrels...I'll grant you they shoot 1/3 the group size for sure. Against the "Best CHF", the margins are FAR, far less...all things being equal.

My "best" CHF would include the fatty 416's in 10.5/14.5, and some of the newer DD and FN stuff.
 
#71
dms416 said:
You have at least 1 of my cast-offs actually.

I've had 4x Noveske's. 18, 16, 14.5 and a CHF 16".
Also had 2x of Joel's 16" V7 barrels
4x different Centurion stainless (2x 18" mk12, a 16" recce on a Bartlein, and a 14" spr)
2x Kreigers including a 20" cut down to 18"
1x Proof carbon 18"
And a Craddock 16" Intermediate Bartlein 1:7.7"

"Incredibly" is a bit of a stretch for the the Noveske. They certainly kick the shit out of their OWN Chf barrels...I'll grant you they shoot 1/3 the group size for sure. Against the "Best CHF", the margins are FAR, far less...
Click to expand...

I do? What?

Have you ever done a few mag dumps with the Kreigers or the Centurion or the other ones then tried to see how it shoots?

What are you thinking is a GOOD CHF barrel?
 
#72
Docsherm said:
I do? What?

Have you ever done a few mag dumps with the Kreigers or the Centurion or the other ones then tried to see how it shoots?

What are you thinking is a GOOD CHF barrel?
Click to expand...

99% certain YOU have bought a Noveske barrel off of me in the exchange in the past.

Went back and edited but here it is again:

Good CHF's would include HK 416's, and some of the better FN and DD offerings. I've posted pics before.
I'll happily take a 1-1.25 MOA CHF over a 0.75-0.8 Noveske all day, every day of the week. The margin between can be covered by any other factors.
By the time we get done fucking around adding muzzle devices, assembly, rail deflection and other bullshit we're probably closer to arguing 1MOA vs. 1.5MOA in the field.


The later Centurions were shit which is another story. My original 18" Douglas Centurion was one of the best of that lot. YES, I shot it hot as fuck. No, it did not have demonstrate shift.

The Kreiger...well lets just say the rifle in question had problems to where that barrel never really got a fair shake either way.
 
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#73
dms416 said:
Went back and edited but here it is again:

Good CHF's would include HK 416's, and some of the better FN and DD offerings. I've posted pics before.
I'll happily take a 1-1.25 MOA CHF over a 0.75-0.8 Noveske all day, every day of the week. The margin between can be covered by any other factors.

The later Centurions were shit. My original 18" Douglas Centurion was one of the best of that lot. YES, I shot it hot as fuck. No, it did not have demonstrate shift.

The Kreiger...well lets just say the rifle in question had problems to where that barrel never really got a fair shake either way.
Click to expand...


Do you know that the Noveske CHF barrels are made by FN, but require more QA/QC checks then any of the other companies that FN makes them for?

DD has a great barrel life but all that I have seen and used are a solid 1.5-2 MOA all day every day.

By "hot as fuck" what do you mean? Are you talking about shooting all day or auto fire a few mags? Because I can tell you I did a side by side test with a guy that had a Centurion stainless barrel. We both shot a test group and then fired 90 rounds as fast as we could. Then shot another test group immediately. My group did not change and his group opened up like a only fans woman's legs. Even after it cooled down later that day he could not group the same as the first one.


And I am still tiring to figure out what cast-off I have of yours.
 
#74
Docsherm said:
Do you know that the Noveske CHF barrels are made by FN, but require more QA/QC checks then any of the other companies that FN makes them for?

DD has a great barrel life but all that I have seen and used are a solid 1.5-2 MOA all day every day.

By "hot as fuck" what do you mean? Are you talking about shooting all day or auto fire a few mags? Because I can tell you I did a side by side test with a guy that had a Centurion stainless barrel. We both shot a test group and then fired 90 rounds as fast as we could. Then shot another test group immediately. My group did not change and his group opened up like a only fans woman's legs. Even after it cooled down later that day he could not group the same as the first one.


And I am still tiring to figure out what cast-off I have of yours.
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The only FN's I can get to run that well are the Hodges. Personally, I don't believe any of the "special" sauce bullshit Hodge, Noveske or anyone else claims... I've had a Hodge turd barrel before. I just shoot them and see what's what. Ya don't know till you try.

A barrel is its own individual thing. In all my time, I could never expect any 2 to be the EXACT same
You're right, I wouldn't expect more than 1.5 MOA. Some are less, Some are more.

As per the Centurion...no 2 of mine have been the same...I have no doubts in those results, but that's THAT barrel. Knowing what I've seen, each one is different.

"hot as fuck" means I can't hold on to the handguard without gloves.
Here's a confirmation test I did with a Hodge after the other one went back to check for the shift issue:
5 shots @100y mag supported after eating 3 mags back-to-back-to-back (and this is some rando 62gr OTM shit)
IGDAeet.jpg



At the end of the day, more can be lost to other bullshit:

riR9Ddf.jpg





I'm sorry we don't agree, and I also think that ACOGs suck too so there's that we don't agree on either...;)
 
#75
dms416 said:
The only FN's I can get to run that well are the Hodges. Personally, I don't believe any of the "special" sauce bullshit Hodge, Noveske or anyone else claims... I've had a Hodge turd barrel before. I just shoot them and see what's what. Ya don't know till you try.

A barrel is its own individual thing. In all my time, I could never expect any 2 to be the EXACT same
You're right, I wouldn't expect more than 1.5 MOA. Some are less, Some are more.

As per the Centurion...no 2 of mine have been the same...I have no doubts in those results, but that's THAT barrel. Knowing what I've seen, each one is different.

"hot as fuck" means I can't hold on to the handguard without gloves.
Here's a confirmation test I did with a Hodge after the other one went back to check for the shift issue:
5 shots @100y mag supported after eating 3 mags back-to-back-to-back (and this is some rando 62gr OTM shit)



At the end of the day, more can be lost to other bullshit:






I'm sorry we don't agree, and I also think that ACOGs suck too so there's that we don't agree on either...;)
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, Have never seen a Hodges barrel run well. Way under-gassed.

That is another thing that I can say about the Noveske SS and CHF barrels.... they are consistent. I have owned about 20 or so and they have always been consistent.

Really? ACOGs too? Now I feel that you are just trolling for a fight........... :p
 
#76
Docsherm said:
Well, if it makes you feel any better, Have never seen a Hodges barrel run well. Way under-gassed.

That is another thing that I can say about the Noveske SS and CHF barrels.... they are consistent. I have owned about 20 or so and they have always been consistent.

Really? ACOGs too? Now I feel that you are just trolling for a fight........... :p
Click to expand...

Makes sense of you to say a Hodge is under-gassed if you're a Noveske fan. Even without a can, they (Noveske) are overgassed even running A5H2/Green springco.

I think I've run through about 8 Hodge barrels now. 5 have been stellar shooters, 1 had the heat issues, 1 had some finishing/bore issues, and the last was just "meh"...shot about the same as a Centurion CHF lw or Noveske CHF...

I will grant you, the Noveskes SS are a safe bet for what they are.
 
#77
dms416 said:
Makes sense of you to say a Hodge is under-gassed if you're a Noveske fan. Even without a can, they (Noveske) are overgassed even running A5H2/Green springco.

I think I've run through about 8 Hodge barrels now. 5 have been stellar shooters, 1 had the heat issues, 1 had some finishing/bore issues, and the last was just "meh"...shot about the same as a Centurion CHF lw or Noveske CHF...

I will grant you, the Noveskes SS are a safe bet for what they are.
Click to expand...


This is one thing that 99% of the internet has wrong. Proper gassing means that it will shoot any ammo in any conditions.

If you are concerned about gas in your face with a can on, you are not doing simple things to prevent it. If people are talking about a soft shooter, then they need to stick to collecting stamps or something lame like that.

That is that last I will say on that because I have been trying to educate the ignorant masses on Proper gassing for like 15 years now and most like to stay being wrong.

Take care and keep shooting whatever you shoot. Just shoot.
 
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#78
Docsherm said:
This is one thing that 99% of the internet has wrong. Proper gassing means that it will shoot any ammo in any conditions.

If you are concerned about gas in your face with a can on, you are not doing simple things to prevent it. If people are talking about a soft shooter, then they need to stick to collecting stamps or something lame like that.

That is that last I will say on that because I have been trying to educate the ignorant masses on Proper gassing for like 15 years now and most like to stay being wrong.

Take care and keep shooting whatever you shoot. Just shoot.
Click to expand...

Gassing is more of a concern in relation to the affects on the operating system and the longevity of the gun. Nope, I don't care if it can cycle some bullshit Tula. Cycle anemic .223 match ammo with good ejection when dirty...GTG. Drive on


Yes, I believe you've been saying the same shit for 15 years...it's clear you're stuck there.


Cheers!
 
#83
dms416 said:
And just so we're clear....the gas port size for what YOU deem as "proper" for a 14.5" middy is what?
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Larger then what you think is correct.

I have never measured one. I shoot to test. That is the only way to really know. If they work with everything, they are good. If not too small.

If the interweb says they are properly ported, then they are too small. Centurion arms barrels are available great example. Way too small. Every person seen with one, i have demonstrated this with shitty ammo. Especially a 12.5 CHF.
 
#84
I will save us all some time. If you are shotting as a hobby or gaming,then it really doesn't matter.

If you need something for real world applications, then there is a real difference. If you have not done both then there is nothing to compare. People can only truly articulate what they have experienced in their life.
 
#88
dms416 said:
And you wonder why no one has listened in the last 15 years. The next 15 won't be any better.

Always kind of wonder why LFer bounced your ass, Steve...it's becoming clear
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Because I spoke badly about BCM and wrote up a scathing report about their 12.5 barrel. The that shit stain of a human (and fraud) Pat banned me.

If you know me then PM me your info so I know who I am speaking to. I have keep my same screen name on all platforms.... did you?
 
#89
Docsherm said:
Well, if it makes you feel any better, Have never seen a Hodges barrel run well. Way under-gassed.

That is another thing that I can say about the Noveske SS and CHF barrels.... they are consistent. I have owned about 20 or so and they have always been consistent.

Really? ACOGs too? Now I feel that you are just trolling for a fight........... :p
Click to expand...
My Hodge barrel runs fine.
 
#91
Docsherm said:
Can you elaborate? With or without a can, shitty ammo, cold conditions.... anything?
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With or without a can. With or without shitty steel case trash. Using a5h2 green springs. Or a5h4. It literally doesn't care. Clean or fouled. You don't need a Perry Piper gas port. You need a properly sealed and efficient gas system. My kac 11.5 is another example of a smaller port that runs great. Owed to the mod 2 systems efficiency.
 
#94
hlee said:
If I neither buy, nor own, shitty steel cased ammo, why does my rifle need to shoot it? I live in Houston, why does my rifle need to run at -40c?
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I already posted this above.

If you are shotting as a hobby or gaming,then it really doesn't matter.

If you need something for real world applications, then there is a real difference. If you have not done both then there is nothing to compare. People can only truly articulate what they have experienced in their life.

And if you are using Celsius for tempatures you have much bigger issues then a good AR barrel. ;)
 
#96
Docsherm said:
I already posted this above.

If you are shotting as a hobby or gaming,then it really doesn't matter.

If you need something for real world applications, then there is a real difference. If you have not done both then there is nothing to compare. People can only truly articulate what they have experienced in their life.

And if you are using Celsius for tempatures you have much bigger issues then a good AR barrel. ;)
Click to expand...
-40c is LITERALLY the same temp as -40f. 😉
 
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#99
dms416 said:
And you wonder why no one has listened in the last 15 years. The next 15 won't be any better.

Always kind of wonder why LFer bounced your ass, Steve...it's becoming clear
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You seem really fixated on calling people out, any particular reason?

Are you someone of importance? Do you work in the Firearms industry?
 
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#100
Docsherm said:
I know..... but Celsius is yuck. ;)
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Being conversationally fluent in both is an occupational hazard.

My “preps,” such as they are, rely solely on what I have on hand, and not on what I imagine I may find.

On a related note, I recently became aware that my 22s don’t run reliably with some “panic ammo” that I have on hand. I’ll need to cycle that out for ammo that runs reliably…
 
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